With 12post now gone from the meta, and Innistrad newly rotating into the Modern environment, blue based tempo / control decks are now finally viable as well as potent. I created this deck as a tempo/control deck that allows players to leverage their own play skill and ability to best an opponent, instead of goldfishing for the fastest combo or aggro hand.
The result? My current record with this deck is quite strong, especially when playing against the meta's top decks like Affinity, Zoo, etc. That being said, as I mentioned, play-skill is a huge part of this deck, and since the decision trees are so huge in this, it's very easy to toss games, or make small missplays that lead to a lower chance of winning.
In a few ways, this deck is a hybridization of Faeries, Stoneforge tempo, and UWR Superfriends. The Planeswalkers are ultimately what gives this reach. The advantage planeswalkers have in here is that they give you a huge leg up against opposing control or tempo decks, and essentially give you something that you want to tap out for. Most tempo or control decks can make an end of turn play on something such as Vendilion Clique, which either forces an opposing control player to counter it, or to give up what's likely to be their only counter in their hand. While this is good, it's not going to be a homerun unless you can tap out to play a backbreaking card on turn 4. This is where Elspeth and Ajani are incredibly powerful, since you can drop all your creatures at the end of your turn, and force an opponent to either allow your planeswalkers to resolve, or to simply die to your creatures / tempo.
Having 2 sword of Feast and Famine is great, but it's not plan A by any means. The swords are more or less there to act as a "finisher" that gets more value out of your snapcaster mages, since his 2/1 body isn't all that aggressive by traditional standards.
In a lot of ways, this does look like a control deck, but make no mistake, this is a tempo deck through and through. It's not as fast of a tempo deck such as Delver, but the deck turns live typically on turn 4 when you start hitting mana for Cryptic Command, Venser, and planeswalkers.
While the UW shell is generally going to be the "norm" for this style of deck, some may try Bant or Esper. I've had the best luck with UWR, since it gives access to the best instants in the format, is the strongest version when playing against aggro decks (thanks to helix, bolt, and vengeant), and gives much needed reach to the deck's gameplan.
Other random notes:
1. Repeal is one of my personal favorite cards in the modern card pool. It'll slow opposing decks down quite a bit, and serves as the best all-purpose utility card in here. Repeal is great at slowing down decks like affinity or delver, and is also great for late-game tricks with snapcaster mage.
2. Having man-lands is an absolute necessity. I rarely attack for more than 1-2 times with my manlands since I typically don't want to tap-out to animate a colonnade or conclave, but they allow you to get in that extra 5-6 damage that ends the game in a single strike, as opposed to being forced to grind games out with 3/1 fliers.
3. Games will frequently be very close in terms of damage, and come down to who can win a race at the end of a game. It's frequently the best play to allow an opponent to swing in with nacatls for a few turns while you hold up mana for permission. Typically, you play the role of simply chipping away at an opponent's life total until you're free to swing in for an uninterrupted alpha strike with 1-2 creatures and a colonnade.
4. I've been playing this deck since September, and it's still good. This deck is good against other tempo decks as well, especially delver decks which have a hard time dealing with the removal package in here.
In any case I've still been playing this, and this deck just wrecks any aggro deck, and usually will beat most control decks.
It takes skill to play, since it's a tempo deck more than a true control deck. Sometimes, you'll end up just going aggro via Clique & Elspeth, while using your helixes to dome an opponent. Other times, you'll slowly widdle the game away.
The only main differences from before, are that I switched the 2x Lightning Bolt for 2x Lightning Helix, and i've added 2 of the spell snares to the maindeck in lieu of the current meta.
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In any case I've still been playing this, and this deck just wrecks any aggro deck, and usually will beat most control decks.
It takes skill to play, since it's a tempo deck more than a true control deck. Sometimes, you'll end up just going aggro via Clique & Elspeth, while using your helixes to dome an opponent. Other times, you'll slowly widdle the game away.
The only main differences from before, are that I switched the 2x Lightning Bolt for 2x Lightning Helix, and i've added 2 of the spell snares to the maindeck in lieu of the current meta.
just being a tempo doesn't mean its more skill intensive. it just means that you will often times lose because you have the wrong draw. If something is too middle of the road often times it will just kinda be crappy. Competitive magic is about lowering variance the only way you can which is building your deck to consistently have the same results as much as possible. A deck that is sometimes aggro and sometimes a control deck with no card advantage does not really do that. Most of the cards are good anyways like snappy and venny, although the swords are problematic with as few creatures as you run.
(about the swords)
I know the PWs and the man lands, but aren't you better off being just a bit slow, but having the ability to draw cards or having slightly more removal?
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just being a tempo doesn't mean its more skill intensive. it just means that you will often times lose because you have the wrong draw. If something is too middle of the road often times it will just kinda be crappy. Competitive magic is about lowering variance the only way you can which is building your deck to consistently have the same results as much as possible. A deck that is sometimes aggro and sometimes a control deck with no card advantage does not really do that. Most of the cards are good anyways like snappy and venny, although the swords are problematic with as few creatures as you run.
I'm not trying to imply tempo by itself makes it more skill intensive, but traditionally, blue tempo decks are more difficult to play *right* than the average deck because your gameplan isn't as straight forward as an aggro deck, combo deck, or even flat out control deck.
As for being "middle of the road" that has nothing to do with how crappy it is or isn't. Stoneforge Mystic decks were tempo decks, Faerie decks are tempo decks, Next Level blue is largely a tempo deck. In Legacy, Tempo Thresh & Team America are also tempo decks, and they all seem to be doing quite well, and are frequently the decks of choice for the top level pros.
As for card advantage, don't think this deck doesn't gain card advantage, it's just not as obvious as "draw 2 cards" as you would see in a lot of decks. Snapcaster Mage + Planeswalkers are largely card advantage by themselves. Cryptic Command = card advantage. But more than anything else, instead of reaching a critical point where you've gained so much more card advantage than an opponent that you can lock out the game, you instead seek to Kill the opponent while they try to establish a board presence or entirely run you out of resources. Considering the only creatures played in here have Flash, it works pretty well overall.
As I mentioned, a good place to start comparisons to this would be UB Fae without Ancestral Visions. It never needed card draw to gain card advantage, and while Ancestral Visions was no doubt an important card in the old extended version, it wasn't a necessary card in the deck.
(about the swords)
I know the PWs and the man lands, but aren't you better off being just a bit slow, but having the ability to draw cards or having slightly more removal?
4x Path to Exile, 4x Lightning Helix, 2x Repeal & a buttload of permission = lots of maindeck removal/answers. Add in 4x Snapcaster Mage, and if anything, there is too much removal in here already. 2x Venser, Shaper Savant also might as well count as removal in a lot of ways.
At some point, you need to put pressure on an opponent, because eventually combo decks will be able to work around your countermagic, or Aggro decks will draw a critical mass of burn spells to burn you out. I know that's *your* play style, but in just about every non standard format, unless you can establish a soft lock akin to Counterbalance or a Prison based control deck, control decks need to put a clock on an opponent or they'll jeopardize the game to bad draws.
Sword of Feast and Famine is essentially the finisher. If you're playing Snapcaster mage, you would be stupid not to play at least 1-2 swords, if for nothing other than getting value out of a puny 2/1 body. More than just that, Swords are always great in conjunction with creatures that have flash, and gain value from entering the battlefield.
Looking quite good, but needs some anti-combo tech... possibly Isochron/Helix package.
I'm not really following. Isochron + Helix is good vs. aggro, but generally terrible vs. Combo decks. Combo is a cake walk for this deck. 4x Maindeck Leaks, 3x Cryptic Command, 3x Vendilion Clique, and more hate from the board makes it pretty hard to lose to combo decks.
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Still been rocking with this. I added Geist of St. Traft into the board since it's such an awesome resource in any control mirrors. If you're playing against a deck like Cruel Control or Teachings, Geist is just an absolute beating for them.
Overall, I've yet to find a bad matchup where I feel I simply can't win. At worst, a matchup i've found is maybe 50/50, but if that's your worst matchup, you're pretty good overall.
just being a tempo doesn't mean its more skill intensive.
That's factually incorrect. Period. It is almost guaranteed to be more skill intensive than most aggro, most midrange, and a fair amount of control and combo. Tempo is hard, especially when it lacks busted synergies.
Anyway, just played against this deck, and it is ****ing legit. I see potential for good Zoo, Twin, and Affinity matchups, winnable Midrange MUs...overall, it seems beastly. Will keep brewing.
I play modern for fun and this is my "Go-To" deck in order to literally just thrash any aggro deck that comes my way.
Mono Red? Tribal-Flames Zoo? Affinity? --> No problem at all.
Differences:
-Spell Snare, Repeal, V. Clique, Venser, Ajani, Elspeth, Stix
+Bolt, Kitchen Finks, Gifts Package (tons of 1-ofs) that always change and include things like: DoJ, ***, O-Ring, Path, Wurmcoil Engine, Gideon, Batterskull, SoFaF, Crucible of Worlds, Mindslaver, Momentary Blink, Academy Ruins, Buried Ruin, Jace Beleren, Tectonic Edge, Venser creature
I am by no means trying to advocate my version as ideal and streamlined, but it's a heck of a lot of fun to play. Snapcaster -> Gifts is epic & the game typically goes long (as the deck is basically a pile of answers) so you gifts slaver lock and win.
Some gifts piles:
Slaver, Crucible, Buried Ruin, Academy Ruins
***, DoJ, Path to Exile, Oring
Gideon, Wurmcoil, Batterskull, Buried Ruin
Momentary Blink, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Venser the Creature
i initially had the RWU primer for star spangled slaughter in modern but after inistrad came out this is almost identical to what it morphed into.. i prefer the giest over lightning angel for the 1CC cheaper and its shroud is priceless...
i really use the Timely reinforcements often and they gain me mass tempo in my meta of mostly ZOO, JUND, mono RED, TOKEN TOWN... but if me meta changes to control i will be swapping them out for CRYPTIC COMMAND
side note ... when you have a familiars ruse and snapper early in hand with this deck the tempo and CA is unparalleled and when you use spellskrite to eat 1-2 spells then save him with the repeal / fam ruse it makes the opp cringe
i initially had the RWU primer for star spangled slaughter in modern but after inistrad came out this is almost identical to what it morphed into.. i prefer the giest over lightning angel for the 1CC cheaper and its shroud is priceless...
i really use the Timely reinforcements often and they gain me mass tempo in my meta of mostly ZOO, JUND, mono RED, TOKEN TOWN... but if me meta changes to control i will be swapping them out for CRYPTIC COMMAND
side note ... when you have a familiars ruse and snapper early in hand with this deck the tempo and CA is unparalleled and when you use spellskrite to eat 1-2 spells then save him with the repeal / fam ruse it makes the opp cringe
Doesn't look bad. That being said, while I *like* familiar's ruse, you're not even going to be able to use it until turn 4-5 at earliest, and at that point, you may as well just play Cryptic Command instead. Cryptic gives you a lot of incidental late game power too with Snapcasters.
The other important thing, is you really NEED manlands. This deck wins off manlands, and pecking away at their life with snapcaster, clique, and elspeth.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of Timely Reinforcements in a deck like this that's more tempo oriented. I would honestly just go with +3 Cliques. Every time I try cutting my own cliques down to 2, I start missing them and want more.
-Another thing to note, you may want to play firespout in place of your wraths. Having the option to "wrath" on turn 3 is a big deal when playing swarm decks like Affinity or even Elf Combos. Including 2-3 nevermore in the board is also a great way to shut down an opponent's Punishing Grove combo which WILL kill you if you don't have any hate for it.
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I have been running UWR control for a couple weeks, though my build is a bit far from this. The three colors give us so many control options, and Ajani is just such a house. It will be interesting to see other folks getting results with UWR control so that the deck can evolve.
Do you guys think that Lightning Angel is worst than any of the creatures you are running? I know Clique is a beast, but I love LA for the old school feel and the quick beatdown it can provide (6 turn clock max). Doesn't die to Smother (the 2nd most played removal in the format). If I had a few Cliques, I would run them, but as of right now, this is what I'm running:
So is Geist better than lightning angel? I'm not convinced but I'll test it. I like angel for the fat butt, the flying and the ability to block. What other flyers are getting played atm? Nothing bigger than her. Geist gets in there, sure, but does nothing on d and doesn't have haste, giving your opponents time to react.
What would be a good draw engine for this deck? Careful consideration? Desperate ravings? Also I think 4x bolt and 4x helix is a minimum in terms of burn spells. Also ajani is great but not as great as elspeth, who is also questionable with the number of creatures, and together they really clog the 4 spot up with angel and snapcaster + whatever. I'd say these lists need less pw's and more burn and draw. If anyone is following the archetype or has thoughts i'd live to hear them! Definitely building this atm, I may post my build tomorrow
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I say: ditch all your big, bulky cards that cost more than 3 mana, add in Delver of Secrets and Grim Lavamancer. Things are aces for tempo. Geist seems fine, since you have a lot of ways to keep the board clear for him.
I say: ditch all your big, bulky cards that cost more than 3 mana, add in Delver of Secrets and Grim Lavamancer. Things are aces for tempo. Geist seems fine, since you have a lot of ways to keep the board clear for him.
Geist, Delver, and Lavamancer are all subpar against aggro right now, which is a bit of a problem. Lightning angel at least can provide some defense. I think if you're playing Delver, you're going to end up going a more aggro route than control here, and you focus way more on speed than control.
Two creatures to consider that don't get a lot of love around here are Emeria Angel and Venser, Shaper Savant. Both are really good cards that haven't seen any play in modern.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
They both die to Lightning Bolt, and are puny next to most creature. It's not a very good climate for them right now.
Well, the general idea is that they give you value regardless of whether they die or not. Emeria = you play turn 5 potentially, then drop a land to give you a bird. You get 2 birds if it's a fetch. Venser at least gives you a bounce effect as well, and has flash, which is highly relevant.
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I have been running a URW control deck on MTGO for a couple weeks that has been doing pretty well. I lack Clique, and have been running some cards you guys are not really considering, but it seems pretty good for me.
I have tried Cryptic Command, and with my available lands it can be hard to cast, and Trickbind is a weird card for the MB, but it is never a dead card for me. I would like to get in a couple more counters in, and I have been going back an forth swapping in Venser in the MD, and putting Magus in the SB, but somtimes my prisons can't hold back the aggro hordes.
While I don't doubt the above deck list isn't bad, it's really an entirely different concept from how this normally plays. This is first and foremost a tempo deck.
One card I've fallen in love with is Moorland Haunt. That card is the stone cold nuts in here, even if it's just giving you an extra 2 spirit tokens, in a control or tempo mirror, it's incredibly powerful.
I also think Spell Snare is now much better with the recent bannings. People are going to be playing a lot more control, a lot more confidants, even more goyfs, and more 2 mana spells that you'll want to snare. Snare is incredible in control mirrors as it's a 1 mana hard-counter on just about any blue-based disruption they will be playing outside cryptic command.
Here is what I'm currently playing with. I've re-tuned it to be slightly better in control or tempo mirrors, adding 2 geists to the maindeck, and putting a little more burn in, and trading the helixes for the more efficient bolts.
I like that deck, I feel like it needs some draw, though. Tried Careful Consideration? Even Desperate Ravings isn't bad. I'd cut the swords and vensers for some kind of CA. not sure about the removal numbers or the three cryptics (in a 3color deck) either. Also Does Ajani do enough for you? I love him personally but don't know that he's strong enough for Modern ATM.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I like that deck, I feel like it needs some draw, though. Tried Careful Consideration? Even Desperate Ravings isn't bad. I'd cut the swords and vensers for some kind of CA. not sure about the removal numbers or the three cryptics (in a 3color deck) either. Also Does Ajani do enough for you? I love him personally but don't know that he's strong enough for Modern ATM.
This isn't a control deck, it's a tempo deck. You generally don't want to be durdling around trying to draw a card. And if anything, you want to play more swords. They're your main win conditions, and nothing is more powerful than Clique, Venser, or Snapcaster end of turn, equip with sword, swing, have them discard, untap, then drop either a planeswalker, or keep mana open for a Cryptic.
Ajani is great. There are a lot of decks that just have no answer to him. IF you can resolve him against a control deck, a lot of times they'll have no way to deal with him until he'll wrath their lands. Against aggro, he'll either keep a creature tapped down, or he'll take one of their threats out and gain you some life at the same time, while also forcing them to fog themselves.
If you manage to +1 him, then -2 him twice, you've typically gained a ton of tempo and card advantage. Him and Elspeth together basically do everything you want to be doing in this deck. Dropping Ajani after hitting 1-2 removal spells is generally gg for any aggro deck in the format too.
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I used to play a similar deck in LRW/SHM/SoA standard and top 16ed a crapton of 100-200 person tourneys. Now with snapcaster and the rest, this becomes pretty amazing awesome.
I need to make a sideboard after more testing, but currently aggro just rolls over, as do most combo decks. Midrange generally feels hit or miss depending on what they are trying to do. To me, Jund seems like the hardest matchup, but I may be wrong.
So what does everyone think of a Flagstones of Trokair / Perilous Research package? Living the dream would be passing on turn 2 with 2 mana up, responding to their 2-drop with Perilous Research sacrificing Flagstones and fetching Hallowed Fountain, and Piercing, Snaring, or Bolting their play. Seems like a hilarious blowout when you hit it, and randomly hitting Ajani on turn 3 against aggro decks with a double-Flagstones draw also seems nice. Does a set of Flagstones screw with the mana base too much, and is Research too useless without it? Any thoughts on this?
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
So what does everyone think of a Flagstones of Trokair / Perilous Research package? Living the dream would be passing on turn 2 with 2 mana up, responding to their 2-drop with Perilous Research sacrificing Flagstones and fetching Hallowed Fountain, and Piercing, Snaring, or Bolting their play. Seems like a hilarious blowout when you hit it, and randomly hitting Ajani on turn 3 against aggro decks with a double-Flagstones draw also seems nice. Does a set of Flagstones screw with the mana base too much, and is Research too useless without it? Any thoughts on this?
Well, Flagstones also allows for a great Boom (of Boom // Bust fame), so I think an argument could be made for it.
With 12post now gone from the meta, and Innistrad newly rotating into the Modern environment, blue based tempo / control decks are now finally viable as well as potent. I created this deck as a tempo/control deck that allows players to leverage their own play skill and ability to best an opponent, instead of goldfishing for the fastest combo or aggro hand.
The result? My current record with this deck is quite strong, especially when playing against the meta's top decks like Affinity, Zoo, etc. That being said, as I mentioned, play-skill is a huge part of this deck, and since the decision trees are so huge in this, it's very easy to toss games, or make small missplays that lead to a lower chance of winning.
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
Planeswalkers
3x Elspeth, Knight Errant
2x Ajani Vengeant
Instants // Sorceries
4x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
1x Spell Pierce
3x Cryptic Command
3x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
2x Repeal
2x Sword of Feast and Famine
Lands
3x Celestial Colonnade
2x Faerie Conclave
2x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Cascade Bluffs
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Spell Pierce
3x Firespout
2x Negate
2x Smash
2x Threads of Disloyalty
3x Nevermore
2x Geist of St. Traft
In a few ways, this deck is a hybridization of Faeries, Stoneforge tempo, and UWR Superfriends. The Planeswalkers are ultimately what gives this reach. The advantage planeswalkers have in here is that they give you a huge leg up against opposing control or tempo decks, and essentially give you something that you want to tap out for. Most tempo or control decks can make an end of turn play on something such as Vendilion Clique, which either forces an opposing control player to counter it, or to give up what's likely to be their only counter in their hand. While this is good, it's not going to be a homerun unless you can tap out to play a backbreaking card on turn 4. This is where Elspeth and Ajani are incredibly powerful, since you can drop all your creatures at the end of your turn, and force an opponent to either allow your planeswalkers to resolve, or to simply die to your creatures / tempo.
Having 2 sword of Feast and Famine is great, but it's not plan A by any means. The swords are more or less there to act as a "finisher" that gets more value out of your snapcaster mages, since his 2/1 body isn't all that aggressive by traditional standards.
In a lot of ways, this does look like a control deck, but make no mistake, this is a tempo deck through and through. It's not as fast of a tempo deck such as Delver, but the deck turns live typically on turn 4 when you start hitting mana for Cryptic Command, Venser, and planeswalkers.
While the UW shell is generally going to be the "norm" for this style of deck, some may try Bant or Esper. I've had the best luck with UWR, since it gives access to the best instants in the format, is the strongest version when playing against aggro decks (thanks to helix, bolt, and vengeant), and gives much needed reach to the deck's gameplan.
Other random notes:
1. Repeal is one of my personal favorite cards in the modern card pool. It'll slow opposing decks down quite a bit, and serves as the best all-purpose utility card in here. Repeal is great at slowing down decks like affinity or delver, and is also great for late-game tricks with snapcaster mage.
2. Having man-lands is an absolute necessity. I rarely attack for more than 1-2 times with my manlands since I typically don't want to tap-out to animate a colonnade or conclave, but they allow you to get in that extra 5-6 damage that ends the game in a single strike, as opposed to being forced to grind games out with 3/1 fliers.
3. Games will frequently be very close in terms of damage, and come down to who can win a race at the end of a game. It's frequently the best play to allow an opponent to swing in with nacatls for a few turns while you hold up mana for permission. Typically, you play the role of simply chipping away at an opponent's life total until you're free to swing in for an uninterrupted alpha strike with 1-2 creatures and a colonnade.
4. I've been playing this deck since September, and it's still good. This deck is good against other tempo decks as well, especially delver decks which have a hard time dealing with the removal package in here.
In any case I've still been playing this, and this deck just wrecks any aggro deck, and usually will beat most control decks.
It takes skill to play, since it's a tempo deck more than a true control deck. Sometimes, you'll end up just going aggro via Clique & Elspeth, while using your helixes to dome an opponent. Other times, you'll slowly widdle the game away.
The only main differences from before, are that I switched the 2x Lightning Bolt for 2x Lightning Helix, and i've added 2 of the spell snares to the maindeck in lieu of the current meta.
just being a tempo doesn't mean its more skill intensive. it just means that you will often times lose because you have the wrong draw. If something is too middle of the road often times it will just kinda be crappy. Competitive magic is about lowering variance the only way you can which is building your deck to consistently have the same results as much as possible. A deck that is sometimes aggro and sometimes a control deck with no card advantage does not really do that. Most of the cards are good anyways like snappy and venny, although the swords are problematic with as few creatures as you run.
(about the swords)
I know the PWs and the man lands, but aren't you better off being just a bit slow, but having the ability to draw cards or having slightly more removal?
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I'm not trying to imply tempo by itself makes it more skill intensive, but traditionally, blue tempo decks are more difficult to play *right* than the average deck because your gameplan isn't as straight forward as an aggro deck, combo deck, or even flat out control deck.
As for being "middle of the road" that has nothing to do with how crappy it is or isn't. Stoneforge Mystic decks were tempo decks, Faerie decks are tempo decks, Next Level blue is largely a tempo deck. In Legacy, Tempo Thresh & Team America are also tempo decks, and they all seem to be doing quite well, and are frequently the decks of choice for the top level pros.
As for card advantage, don't think this deck doesn't gain card advantage, it's just not as obvious as "draw 2 cards" as you would see in a lot of decks. Snapcaster Mage + Planeswalkers are largely card advantage by themselves. Cryptic Command = card advantage. But more than anything else, instead of reaching a critical point where you've gained so much more card advantage than an opponent that you can lock out the game, you instead seek to Kill the opponent while they try to establish a board presence or entirely run you out of resources. Considering the only creatures played in here have Flash, it works pretty well overall.
As I mentioned, a good place to start comparisons to this would be UB Fae without Ancestral Visions. It never needed card draw to gain card advantage, and while Ancestral Visions was no doubt an important card in the old extended version, it wasn't a necessary card in the deck.
4x Path to Exile, 4x Lightning Helix, 2x Repeal & a buttload of permission = lots of maindeck removal/answers. Add in 4x Snapcaster Mage, and if anything, there is too much removal in here already. 2x Venser, Shaper Savant also might as well count as removal in a lot of ways.
At some point, you need to put pressure on an opponent, because eventually combo decks will be able to work around your countermagic, or Aggro decks will draw a critical mass of burn spells to burn you out. I know that's *your* play style, but in just about every non standard format, unless you can establish a soft lock akin to Counterbalance or a Prison based control deck, control decks need to put a clock on an opponent or they'll jeopardize the game to bad draws.
Sword of Feast and Famine is essentially the finisher. If you're playing Snapcaster mage, you would be stupid not to play at least 1-2 swords, if for nothing other than getting value out of a puny 2/1 body. More than just that, Swords are always great in conjunction with creatures that have flash, and gain value from entering the battlefield.
I'm not really following. Isochron + Helix is good vs. aggro, but generally terrible vs. Combo decks. Combo is a cake walk for this deck. 4x Maindeck Leaks, 3x Cryptic Command, 3x Vendilion Clique, and more hate from the board makes it pretty hard to lose to combo decks.
Overall, I've yet to find a bad matchup where I feel I simply can't win. At worst, a matchup i've found is maybe 50/50, but if that's your worst matchup, you're pretty good overall.
That's factually incorrect. Period. It is almost guaranteed to be more skill intensive than most aggro, most midrange, and a fair amount of control and combo. Tempo is hard, especially when it lacks busted synergies.
Anyway, just played against this deck, and it is ****ing legit. I see potential for good Zoo, Twin, and Affinity matchups, winnable Midrange MUs...overall, it seems beastly. Will keep brewing.
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Mono Red? Tribal-Flames Zoo? Affinity? --> No problem at all.
Differences:
-Spell Snare, Repeal, V. Clique, Venser, Ajani, Elspeth, Stix
+Bolt, Kitchen Finks, Gifts Package (tons of 1-ofs) that always change and include things like: DoJ, ***, O-Ring, Path, Wurmcoil Engine, Gideon, Batterskull, SoFaF, Crucible of Worlds, Mindslaver, Momentary Blink, Academy Ruins, Buried Ruin, Jace Beleren, Tectonic Edge, Venser creature
I am by no means trying to advocate my version as ideal and streamlined, but it's a heck of a lot of fun to play. Snapcaster -> Gifts is epic & the game typically goes long (as the deck is basically a pile of answers) so you gifts slaver lock and win.
Some gifts piles:
Slaver, Crucible, Buried Ruin, Academy Ruins
***, DoJ, Path to Exile, Oring
Gideon, Wurmcoil, Batterskull, Buried Ruin
Momentary Blink, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Venser the Creature
4x snapcaster mage
2x spellskrite
2x Giest of st traft
INSTANTS: 23
4x lightning bolt
4x path to exile
4x lightning helix
2x repeal
4x remand
3x familiar's ruse
2x deprive
SORCERY: 2
2x timely reinforcements
1x batterskull
PLANESWALKER: 2
2x elspeth, knight errant
LANDS: 24
1x Mountain
2x Plains
3x Island
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Glacial Fortress
1x Steam Vents
3x sulfer falls
2x Hallowed Fountain
4x wrath of god
2x shattering spree
1x batterskull
1x dispel
2x flashfreeze
2x blood moon
1x ajani veangant
2x gideon jura
i really use the Timely reinforcements often and they gain me mass tempo in my meta of mostly ZOO, JUND, mono RED, TOKEN TOWN... but if me meta changes to control i will be swapping them out for CRYPTIC COMMAND
side note ... when you have a familiars ruse and snapper early in hand with this deck the tempo and CA is unparalleled and when you use spellskrite to eat 1-2 spells then save him with the repeal / fam ruse it makes the opp cringe
YUMA, AZ
Doesn't look bad. That being said, while I *like* familiar's ruse, you're not even going to be able to use it until turn 4-5 at earliest, and at that point, you may as well just play Cryptic Command instead. Cryptic gives you a lot of incidental late game power too with Snapcasters.
The other important thing, is you really NEED manlands. This deck wins off manlands, and pecking away at their life with snapcaster, clique, and elspeth.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of Timely Reinforcements in a deck like this that's more tempo oriented. I would honestly just go with +3 Cliques. Every time I try cutting my own cliques down to 2, I start missing them and want more.
-Another thing to note, you may want to play firespout in place of your wraths. Having the option to "wrath" on turn 3 is a big deal when playing swarm decks like Affinity or even Elf Combos. Including 2-3 nevermore in the board is also a great way to shut down an opponent's Punishing Grove combo which WILL kill you if you don't have any hate for it.
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4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Lightning Angel
2 Baneslayer Angel
3 Ajani Vengaent
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Punishing Fire
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Grove of Burnwillows
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Arid Mesa
1 Scalded Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Flashfreeze
3 Condemn
3 Trickbind
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
What would be a good draw engine for this deck? Careful consideration? Desperate ravings? Also I think 4x bolt and 4x helix is a minimum in terms of burn spells. Also ajani is great but not as great as elspeth, who is also questionable with the number of creatures, and together they really clog the 4 spot up with angel and snapcaster + whatever. I'd say these lists need less pw's and more burn and draw. If anyone is following the archetype or has thoughts i'd live to hear them! Definitely building this atm, I may post my build tomorrow
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I say: ditch all your big, bulky cards that cost more than 3 mana, add in Delver of Secrets and Grim Lavamancer. Things are aces for tempo. Geist seems fine, since you have a lot of ways to keep the board clear for him.
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Geist, Delver, and Lavamancer are all subpar against aggro right now, which is a bit of a problem. Lightning angel at least can provide some defense. I think if you're playing Delver, you're going to end up going a more aggro route than control here, and you focus way more on speed than control.
Two creatures to consider that don't get a lot of love around here are Emeria Angel and Venser, Shaper Savant. Both are really good cards that haven't seen any play in modern.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Well, the general idea is that they give you value regardless of whether they die or not. Emeria = you play turn 5 potentially, then drop a land to give you a bird. You get 2 birds if it's a fetch. Venser at least gives you a bounce effect as well, and has flash, which is highly relevant.
I think Venser is more splashable, however. Emeria likes a bit of support, either by getting lots of lands in play or pumping her birdies.
No reason not to play Geist here, though.
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
Planeswalker:
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Instants:
2 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Trickbind
4 Mana Leak
4 Telling Time
4 Think Twice
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Land:
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Celestial Colonnade
3 Arid Mesa
3 Plains
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Lightning Helix
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Nevermore
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Dissipate
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One card I've fallen in love with is Moorland Haunt. That card is the stone cold nuts in here, even if it's just giving you an extra 2 spirit tokens, in a control or tempo mirror, it's incredibly powerful.
I also think Spell Snare is now much better with the recent bannings. People are going to be playing a lot more control, a lot more confidants, even more goyfs, and more 2 mana spells that you'll want to snare. Snare is incredible in control mirrors as it's a 1 mana hard-counter on just about any blue-based disruption they will be playing outside cryptic command.
Here is what I'm currently playing with. I've re-tuned it to be slightly better in control or tempo mirrors, adding 2 geists to the maindeck, and putting a little more burn in, and trading the helixes for the more efficient bolts.
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
Instants
4x Mana Leak
3x Cryptic Command
2x Spell Snare
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
3x Path To Exile
Planeswalkers
2x Ajani Vengeant
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Artifacts
2x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Moorland Haunt
2x Celestial Colonnade
3x Faerie Conclave
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
2x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Spell Snare
2x Lightning Helix
2x Nevermore
1x Negate
1x Smash
1x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Path to Exile
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Combust
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
This isn't a control deck, it's a tempo deck. You generally don't want to be durdling around trying to draw a card. And if anything, you want to play more swords. They're your main win conditions, and nothing is more powerful than Clique, Venser, or Snapcaster end of turn, equip with sword, swing, have them discard, untap, then drop either a planeswalker, or keep mana open for a Cryptic.
Ajani is great. There are a lot of decks that just have no answer to him. IF you can resolve him against a control deck, a lot of times they'll have no way to deal with him until he'll wrath their lands. Against aggro, he'll either keep a creature tapped down, or he'll take one of their threats out and gain you some life at the same time, while also forcing them to fog themselves.
If you manage to +1 him, then -2 him twice, you've typically gained a ton of tempo and card advantage. Him and Elspeth together basically do everything you want to be doing in this deck. Dropping Ajani after hitting 1-2 removal spells is generally gg for any aggro deck in the format too.
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Arid Mesa
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mountain
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Steam Vents
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Baneslayer Angel
// Spells
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
2 Repeal
I used to play a similar deck in LRW/SHM/SoA standard and top 16ed a crapton of 100-200 person tourneys. Now with snapcaster and the rest, this becomes pretty amazing awesome.
I need to make a sideboard after more testing, but currently aggro just rolls over, as do most combo decks. Midrange generally feels hit or miss depending on what they are trying to do. To me, Jund seems like the hardest matchup, but I may be wrong.
Any thoughts?
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
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