Fulminator loves me when I go against something like a control deck; if I can stick just one down he usually wrecks them enough to keep them from getting to where they want to be. He's not NECESSARY for the deck, but he's very welcome and fits in very well. As I've said before, I'm usually happier to see him than I am seeing Beast Within.
Ran into a Living End build while testing out a Burn deck the other day. Typical list similar to what I run, except he was packing Jund Charms. I asked the player post match about it and was convinced to add them to the sideboard. Looking at my last list, I took Fulminator and Macabre #4's out and added 2 Jund Charms. I also cut the Scalding Tarns, added 1 Verdant Catacomb, and cut down a few basics to add 3 Copperline Gorges and 2 Blackcleave Cliffs. They were missed. I'm quite happy where the mana base is at right now.
I picked up the deck pretty recently, and have felt pretty comfortable against most of the creature matchups. I've had some difficulty with some Next-Level faeries and Teachings decks, and have been looking for ways to solidify the matchup post-board.
Fulminator Mage and Beast Within have been doing a pretty good job, and Psychotic Episode has been okay. I've been thinking about trying either Mulldrifter or Mournwhelk out of the sideboard to try to overload their countermagic a little more. Is that remotely reasonable, or am I trying a little too hard?
Night of Souls' Betrayal could work, I guess, but that's really slow, considering they can pump their Ascendants into beating range as early as turn 2.
Night of Souls' Betrayal could work, I guess, but that's really slow, considering they can pump their Ascendants into beating range as early as turn 2.
This is pretty close to what I do. Macabre really shines here. I'm only really worried when they pump an Ascendant up by turn 2 or 3. Otherwise, just go off as normal. Macabre keeps pesky Martyrs from coming back. If I were to become really worried about the deck, I'd look at Leylines as answers. Trying out Jund Charm in my side these days, I'll post how it's going if I come across some Martyr decks.
I just never care about Macabre coming back, and if she makes the trip back from the yard I'm surprised. I hardly ever drop her just to fill up the yard, as she isn't very big or tough. She's one of the very few that I run that die to bolt or helix. She's straight up utility, and in that regard I have to think she does a better job than Offalsnout. She's cheaper to use, hits more targets, and is a better body to have on the field if it comes to that. Between her and a few Jund Charms in the side, I think I'm feeling pretty good about GY hate.
I have to go with Krosan Grip over Beast Within, if only for Split Second alone. I've explained my feelings on Beast Within in previous pages of this thread. It's neat in that it can do a handful of things, but other cards that we already play (or should be playing) do them better.
I could see a blue version of the deck, but I think losing green would hurt it. Violent Outburst is the Cascade spell of choice, and cards like Brindle Boar and Krosan Grip/Beast Within give the deck answers in what would otherwise be bad matchups. Mulldrifter is neat, but it's just not the beater that I'd want it to be. Two cards is nice, sure, but in a deck in which I'm cycling at least three or four times in the first 3 turns, I'm not really hurting for card draw.
Leyline seems interesting. Can't say I'd want to make room for it in the main, but I could see it being an odd surprise. Gotta say though that it's not really kicking people in the balls the way I want to. Snappy is strong, but not enough to warrant 4 main slots taken up just to hate it. Aggro seems like it'd be fine playing around it with the exception of 'Goyf, and Storm decks may cringe but they are capable of going off around a Leyline.
Trying out Jund Charm in my side these days, I'll post how it's going if I come across some Martyr decks.
My original sideboard ran 3 Jund Charms, and I wasn't all that impressed with them, really. The Pyroclasm effect was never as useful as I thought it would be, and the colors are sometimes a ***** to get if you're trying to hose their graveyard. The +1/+1 counter ability is okay, I guess, but we put enough pressure on them with our fatties as it is. To me, using Charms to pump our creatures is like wasting card slots on Inner-Flame Acolyte, which we've already discussed.
-Yes, the manabase is a bit screwy. But one thing I won't budge on is Svogthos, the Restless Tomb. It's a pretty dandy fallback for when your Living Ends get countered/extracted/otherwise stopped.
-Free slots in the sideboard are for whatever's dominating the meta that day. Right now I'm using Avalanche Riders (because Teachings and Jund hate LD), but you could just as easily sprinkle extra copies of Faerie Macabre, Fulminatior Mage, Shriekmaw, or Krosan Grip.
Has anyone else found the UR Storm matchup to be really rough? It's really common on modo right now so I'm wondering if there's some elegant solution...
Obviously it's fine if they just make a bunch of goblins since we can End, but I find I often die to double Grapeshot or Grapeshot/Past in Flames a couple turns before I can win (turn 4-5 kill seems fairly easy for the storm deck).
Maindeck I have 4 Fulminators and 2 Jund Charms (I'm the player mentioned a couple posts back who loves this card, I recommend it for its versatility) to mise some Game Ones, but the matchup definitely feels unfavorable. I've been trying a couple different things to beat it after board, right now I'm boarding into x4 Leyline of the Void and x4 Leyline of Sanctity in addition to some Beast Withins, but having to mulligan to leylines or brick draw steps on them kinda sucks. :/
Has anyone else found the UR Storm matchup to be really rough? It's really common on modo right now so I'm wondering if there's some elegant solution...
Maindeck I have 4 Fulminators and 2 Jund Charms (I'm the player mentioned a couple posts back who loves this card, I recommend it for its versatility) to mise some Game Ones, but the matchup definitely feels unfavorable. I've been trying a couple different things to beat it after board, right now I'm boarding into x4 Leyline of the Void and x4 Leyline of Sanctity in addition to some Beast Withins, but having to mulligan to leylines or brick draw steps on them kinda sucks. :/
Thoughts?
No elegant solution comes to mind, unfortunately. Staying with the land destruction certainly seems to be the way to go, since they run so few. Jund Charm is helpful here (:o!), and you could even make a case for Kitchen Finks or Brindle Boar, padding your life total enough to keep you out of kill range.
For those of us who don't dedicate 8 spots in the sideboard for leylines, I'd say board out landcyclers and Street Wraith, if you run him. Free cycling is nice, but I feel like you really need to use your life as a resource if you want to work the matchup optimally.
EDIT: I've tweaked my decklist a little bit. Wanted to know what you guys thought.
-I made space for Night of Souls' Betrayal. I've tested it a little bit, and while it hasn't shown up much, I've always been happy to be able to lay it down. It's a nice MD surprise against Merfolk and Martyr. I can also see it being useful versus Affinity and Kiki-Twin (You can make as many 0/3 Deceiver Exarchs as you want, bro. ;)). One more in the board to help solidify these matchups post-board.
-I have cut a Leyline of the Void from my sideboard. While running 2 makes me a little uncomfortable, it just wasn't making its way into enough matchups to justify running as many as I was. I replaced it with an extra Shriekmaw, which I haven't regretted (yet).
-Landbase is still very budget, but I think I might end up shelling out for an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth at some point. The mana-fixing seems nice, and if I do I'll probably bump up my Street Wraith count for some extra unblockable goodness. It'll likely replace Svogthos.
I have not had great success against U/R storm trying to lifegain out of range with my Martyr-Proc deck. Pyromancer's ascension is a ridiculous force multiplier--I've been taken down from 50 life on turn five a couple of times. Kitchen Finks will keep you from getting cheaped out on a 15 point grapestorm + land damage, but I don't think they'll buy you that much time.
White has the good hate cards (rule of law + nevermore naming "boomerang"...), but I think the generally effective plan against them is hand disruption + gy hate. The problem is that you usually want to hit them with it early (i.e., low cmc cards), which seems like it will screw up the whole cascade plan. OTOH, "cascade into hate" could be pretty effective. Kind of a twist on the Rain of Gore plan mentioned above.
"cascade into hate" could be pretty effective. Kind of a twist on the Rain of Gore plan mentioned above.
Hmm... I wonder how a sideboard like that would look. You'd also be tricking your opponent into siding in dead cards, since you're no longer messing around with your graveyard by boarding out Living End.
The only issue I can see coming out of this course of action is that, while you now have a plethora of ways to hate on your opponent (you're essentially counting your Demonic Dreads and Violent Outbursts as extra silver bullets), you've substantially weakened a good portion of your deck. Your cycling creatures can now only hope to see the field if they're hard-cast. You lose the "wrath" effect that Living End provides. Fulminator Mage loses some of its power. Forbidden Orchard goes back to being the turdy rainbow land that it is.
Nonetheless, I went with this sideboard idea in my Spread 'em deck and it works very well. I just don't know that it's the best way to handle the sideboard for this particular deck. I'd be interested to see people try it out and post results, though.
Maybe try leaving in one living end and bringing in two or three hate cards? Your first cascade should hit the hate, but eventually you will hit the living end... If you draw it you can either suspend or go with the hard cast fatties plan. The advantage of just having one is that once you hit it you know you will be cascading into hate only for the rest of the game.
I just don't like the idea of swapping it out so that I'm never certain of what I'm hitting with a Cascade spell. Typically, I Cascade knowing I'm going to hit a Living End, and that unless they have countermagic or some other trick that it's going to go off. Cascading at the last possible second to maximize the momentum swinging my way, you know? Adding other spells, even relevant hate spells, just causes that to go haywire. Not knowing what I'd hit, I'd be guessing and hoping that whatever I hit is what I was hoping to find. I might be talked into siding out the Ends for one reason or another, but I just do not think a Cascade deck like this should have variance as to what the Cascade'd spell can be in any given game.
I've been testing extensively on Cockatrice and with friends, and I'm slowly finding Architects of Will to be less and less useful. He's got a Bolt-able body, and often times his pseudo-fatesealing isn't relevant because I can: 1) cycle through all three cards on top of my library in one turn anyway, or 2) my opponent can dig through any chaff I stick on top of his/her library.
I initially knocked Street Wraith for having irrelevant evasion, but now I'm thinking of bumping him up to a 3-of, and cutting Architects entirely, replacing those 2 remaining slots with something else. Any suggestions?
Just wanted to discuss an idea I'd had earlier when discussing my Living End deck with some friends -- what do people think about also running blue mana for Mulldrifter? Evoking it, while only sorcery speed, is essentially a double cycle, with another 2 cards down the pipe later after comboing off.
I already run a single Steam Vents in my maindeck so I can fetch it out and cast Architects of Will when I draw them late game, so my mana base already runs enough blue mana to also consider Mulldrifters. What do you all think?
Just wanted to discuss an idea I'd had earlier when discussing my Living End deck with some friends -- what do people think about also running blue mana for Mulldrifter? Evoking it, while only sorcery speed, is essentially a double cycle, with another 2 cards down the pipe later after comboing off.
I already run a single Steam Vents in my maindeck so I can fetch it out and cast Architects of Will when I draw them late game, so my mana base already runs enough blue mana to also consider Mulldrifters. What do you all think?
I don't think Mulldrifter is explosive enough to justify weakening an already-volatile landbase. Sure, it gets two cards early, and two more down the line, but it's not like we're strapped for draw to begin with. All of our cyclers keep our hand full, and once we Living End, the game is typically over within 1-2 turns anyway.
In all of my testing and playing the deck, I think I've been hellbent exactly once, and it was against a really bad Mono-B discard deck. And as for casting Architects of Will... meh. That's another perk that wouldn't be worth splashing blue for.
My vote: Stick with Jund colors. A full hand isn't what we're after; it's a full graveyard.
what about adding 4x simian spirit guide for gaining speed?
maybe dropping some lands for cyclers.
would the deck then be too unstable?
Speeding up the deck isn't ideal. You want to be cycling enough creatures into your graveyard that when you combo off, you can win within a turn or two. Speeding up the combo just makes it less likely. It's better to look for ways to slow your opponent down, than to speed yourself up.
Incidentally, I did have a thought about a transformational deck. Addin W would both allow access to some more control elements, and the possibility of swapping out the living end combo for Necromancer's Covenant instead, blanking much of the hate in game two or three. Particularly against white decks that are likely to try to stop us with Rule of Law and/or Ethersworn Cannonist to kill cascade, this gives us another way to win off of a graveyard full of terrible creatures.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Speeding up the deck isn't ideal. You want to be cycling enough creatures into your graveyard that when you combo off, you can win within a turn or two. Speeding up the combo just makes it less likely. It's better to look for ways to slow your opponent down, than to speed yourself up.
Someone 4-0d a MTGO daily with 3 Simian Spirit Guides. Relative to this person's previous list (which went 3-1), the deck took out 2 Jungle Weaver and a land for the Spirit Guides.
I think the idea has merit. True, normally you'll want to wait until T3 to Living End so you have enough creatures to bring back. But sometimes doing it T2 helps. Also, unexpectedly being able to pay for Cursecatcher or Spell Pierce can be useful.
I've actually had a lot of success with Spirit Guides, I run 4. When playing first, a second turn Fulminator Mage off of a Spirit Guide, killing their only land, can be nigh-unbeatable versus some decks.
Someone 4-0d a MTGO daily with 3 Simian Spirit Guides. Relative to this person's previous list (which went 3-1), the deck took out 2 Jungle Weaver and a land for the Spirit Guides.
I think the idea has merit. True, normally you'll want to wait until T3 to Living End so you have enough creatures to bring back. But sometimes doing it T2 helps. Also, unexpectedly being able to pay for Cursecatcher or Spell Pierce can be useful.
I don't even like Jungle Weaver, so taking out one card I wouldn't play for another card I wouldn't play still doesn't sound like something I want to be doing.
If I am cycling, I want to pay 1 (or 2 life if possible). I will landcycle for 2 off of four slots total (4 Valley Rannets for preference, but I could see mixing it up if I go 5 colour as I am tempted).
I'd look into more evoke creatures, or similar ways to control the board while preparing for the living end, rahter than adding a creature that actually detracts from the effectiveness of the deck. Maybe if it was discarded for mana it would be different, but as it is it is a creature that doesn't cycle or evoke, and even if you do get it into play, is even more underwhelming than the rest of the creatures in the deck. A short list of better cards to add:
Regardless of whether someone 4-0'd with a faster list, the focus should really be on adding resilience and control, not speed. Comboing out faster just means a less useful combo.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Regardless of whether someone 4-0'd with a faster list, the focus should really be on adding resilience and control, not speed. Comboing out faster just means a less useful combo.
It's not just about comboing faster. It's about giving you more flexibility to deal with your opponent's gameplan. In other words, it does add resilience and control.
It allows you to combo on turn 2 if you're facing an extremely fast aggro draw or expect that if you wait a turn your opponent will drop hate/have too much countermagic.
It allows you to cycle an additional 1-cost cycler and still combo on turn 3.
It allows you to pay for Cursecatcher on turn 3 or Spell Pierce on turn 4. This is especially useful since your opponent might not expect you to be able to pay.
It allows a t2 Fulminator Mage or Beast Within if needed, potentially into t3 combo.
And finally, it's a Grey Ogre if you really need one.
what about the drawbacks of deadshot minotaur and shriekmaw when they enter battlefied because of a living end?
wouldn t they both target creatures (with flying) I control if the opponent doesn t conrol any creatures?
First off, Shriekmaw obviously killed something to end up in your graveyard. Thus, when Living End reanimates it, it will also reanimate whatever Shriekmaw killed, giving Shriekmaw a target that doesn't belong to you. No drawback
Deadshot Minotaur's drawback is negligible, as the only thing it will hit is Faerie Macabre, and that's assuming your opponent doesn't have a target it can hit. If you're really all that worried about it, run more Architects of Will and fewer Deadshots. I wouldn't recommend it, though.
As for the Spirit Guide argument, I would tend to err toward not using it. I feel like it encourages the mana flood, which is kind of a ballache in this deck. But I haven't had to deal with a lot of control thus far, so maybe I just haven't seen its true usefulness shine yet. The popularity of Merfolk is the main thing that makes me consider it.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Can we explain Dark Ascension cards here, which are maybe good for this deck?
Or we need to wait until the spoiler is full? Sorry for the dumb question, just registered to mtgsalvation.
Just want to reinforce that spoilers are not allowed here until the entire set has been spoiled (which is normally 1-2 days before the pre-release)
We have a thread for spoiler discussion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
But the deck that went 4-0 in the daily had 4 Fulminator main, no Shriekmaw, and only 2 shriekmaw in the side.
And 4 Faerie main.
ASW didn't quite explain it right. The Shriekmaw thing is irrelevant, since Shriekmaw can just re-kill whatever he was evoked on anyway.
Faerie Macabre is incredibly useful because it, like most of the creatures in this deck, ends up in your graveyard while doing something for you. Here's a list of the reasons I love this gal:
Wish I could come up with a tenth one, for evenness sake. But yes, these are some great reasons to run five Faerie Macabre.
Fulminator Mage got a little bit worse when 12-Post went away, but it's still amazing. It's just a personal choice for now, but it does take care of a lot of things for us, especially since Merfolk is so popular. Hitting Mutavault is nice (though personally I prefer EoT Violent Outburst to kill it ;D).
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
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Ran into a Living End build while testing out a Burn deck the other day. Typical list similar to what I run, except he was packing Jund Charms. I asked the player post match about it and was convinced to add them to the sideboard. Looking at my last list, I took Fulminator and Macabre #4's out and added 2 Jund Charms. I also cut the Scalding Tarns, added 1 Verdant Catacomb, and cut down a few basics to add 3 Copperline Gorges and 2 Blackcleave Cliffs. They were missed. I'm quite happy where the mana base is at right now.
Fulminator Mage and Beast Within have been doing a pretty good job, and Psychotic Episode has been okay. I've been thinking about trying either Mulldrifter or Mournwhelk out of the sideboard to try to overload their countermagic a little more. Is that remotely reasonable, or am I trying a little too hard?
Well, when you look at the matchup a little closer, we already have a few weapons against Martyr. Faerie Macabre is handy for tripping up Proclamation of Rebirth and Emeria, the Sky Ruin, and Fulminator Mage/Beast Within (whichever you choose to run) can destroy the latter. Still, if you're stuck looking for more answers, I'd consider Leyline of the Void.
Night of Souls' Betrayal could work, I guess, but that's really slow, considering they can pump their Ascendants into beating range as early as turn 2.
This is pretty close to what I do. Macabre really shines here. I'm only really worried when they pump an Ascendant up by turn 2 or 3. Otherwise, just go off as normal. Macabre keeps pesky Martyrs from coming back. If I were to become really worried about the deck, I'd look at Leylines as answers. Trying out Jund Charm in my side these days, I'll post how it's going if I come across some Martyr decks.
I have to go with Krosan Grip over Beast Within, if only for Split Second alone. I've explained my feelings on Beast Within in previous pages of this thread. It's neat in that it can do a handful of things, but other cards that we already play (or should be playing) do them better.
I could see a blue version of the deck, but I think losing green would hurt it. Violent Outburst is the Cascade spell of choice, and cards like Brindle Boar and Krosan Grip/Beast Within give the deck answers in what would otherwise be bad matchups. Mulldrifter is neat, but it's just not the beater that I'd want it to be. Two cards is nice, sure, but in a deck in which I'm cycling at least three or four times in the first 3 turns, I'm not really hurting for card draw.
Leyline seems interesting. Can't say I'd want to make room for it in the main, but I could see it being an odd surprise. Gotta say though that it's not really kicking people in the balls the way I want to. Snappy is strong, but not enough to warrant 4 main slots taken up just to hate it. Aggro seems like it'd be fine playing around it with the exception of 'Goyf, and Storm decks may cringe but they are capable of going off around a Leyline.
My original sideboard ran 3 Jund Charms, and I wasn't all that impressed with them, really. The Pyroclasm effect was never as useful as I thought it would be, and the colors are sometimes a ***** to get if you're trying to hose their graveyard. The +1/+1 counter ability is okay, I guess, but we put enough pressure on them with our fatties as it is. To me, using Charms to pump our creatures is like wasting card slots on Inner-Flame Acolyte, which we've already discussed.
I eventually just cut them for Leyline of the Void. I don't miss them.
EDIT: Now that I have my coffee and some music going, here's my decklist.
4 Swamp
4 Mountain
3 Forest
3 Forbidden Orchard
2 Savage Lands
1 Graven Cairns
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
Cycling Creatures (21)
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Monstrous Carabid
3 Architects of Will
2 Ridge Rannet
2 Street Wraith
3 Jungle Weaver
2 Valley Rannet
1 Twisted Abomination
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Shriekmaw
Sorceries (6)
3 Demonic Dread
3 Living End
Instants (6)
4 Violent Outburst
2 Beast Within
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Brindle Boar
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Ingot Chewer
4 Open-meta slots
Couple things:
-Yes, the manabase is a bit screwy. But one thing I won't budge on is Svogthos, the Restless Tomb. It's a pretty dandy fallback for when your Living Ends get countered/extracted/otherwise stopped.
-Free slots in the sideboard are for whatever's dominating the meta that day. Right now I'm using Avalanche Riders (because Teachings and Jund hate LD), but you could just as easily sprinkle extra copies of Faerie Macabre, Fulminatior Mage, Shriekmaw, or Krosan Grip.
If you want to devote sideboard slots to it, replace Living Ends with Rain of Gores. Then cascade in response to martyr activation.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Obviously it's fine if they just make a bunch of goblins since we can End, but I find I often die to double Grapeshot or Grapeshot/Past in Flames a couple turns before I can win (turn 4-5 kill seems fairly easy for the storm deck).
Maindeck I have 4 Fulminators and 2 Jund Charms (I'm the player mentioned a couple posts back who loves this card, I recommend it for its versatility) to mise some Game Ones, but the matchup definitely feels unfavorable. I've been trying a couple different things to beat it after board, right now I'm boarding into x4 Leyline of the Void and x4 Leyline of Sanctity in addition to some Beast Withins, but having to mulligan to leylines or brick draw steps on them kinda sucks. :/
Thoughts?
No elegant solution comes to mind, unfortunately. Staying with the land destruction certainly seems to be the way to go, since they run so few. Jund Charm is helpful here (:o!), and you could even make a case for Kitchen Finks or Brindle Boar, padding your life total enough to keep you out of kill range.
For those of us who don't dedicate 8 spots in the sideboard for leylines, I'd say board out landcyclers and Street Wraith, if you run him. Free cycling is nice, but I feel like you really need to use your life as a resource if you want to work the matchup optimally.
EDIT: I've tweaked my decklist a little bit. Wanted to know what you guys thought.
4 Swamp
4 Mountain
3 Forest
3 Forbidden Orchard
2 Savage Lands
1 Graven Cairns
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
Cycling Creatures (20)
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Monstrous Carabid
3 Architects of Will
2 Ridge Rannet
2 Street Wraith
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Valley Rannet
1 Twisted Abomination
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Shriekmaw
Enchantments (1)
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
Sorceries (6)
3 Demonic Dread
3 Living End
Instants (6)
4 Violent Outburst
2 Beast Within
2 Leyline of the Void
3 Brindle Boar
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Ingot Chewer
3 Krosan Grip
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Shriekmaw
Changes from my previous list:
-I made space for Night of Souls' Betrayal. I've tested it a little bit, and while it hasn't shown up much, I've always been happy to be able to lay it down. It's a nice MD surprise against Merfolk and Martyr. I can also see it being useful versus Affinity and Kiki-Twin (You can make as many 0/3 Deceiver Exarchs as you want, bro. ;)). One more in the board to help solidify these matchups post-board.
-I have cut a Leyline of the Void from my sideboard. While running 2 makes me a little uncomfortable, it just wasn't making its way into enough matchups to justify running as many as I was. I replaced it with an extra Shriekmaw, which I haven't regretted (yet).
-Landbase is still very budget, but I think I might end up shelling out for an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth at some point. The mana-fixing seems nice, and if I do I'll probably bump up my Street Wraith count for some extra unblockable goodness. It'll likely replace Svogthos.
White has the good hate cards (rule of law + nevermore naming "boomerang"...), but I think the generally effective plan against them is hand disruption + gy hate. The problem is that you usually want to hit them with it early (i.e., low cmc cards), which seems like it will screw up the whole cascade plan. OTOH, "cascade into hate" could be pretty effective. Kind of a twist on the Rain of Gore plan mentioned above.
Hmm... I wonder how a sideboard like that would look. You'd also be tricking your opponent into siding in dead cards, since you're no longer messing around with your graveyard by boarding out Living End.
The only issue I can see coming out of this course of action is that, while you now have a plethora of ways to hate on your opponent (you're essentially counting your Demonic Dreads and Violent Outbursts as extra silver bullets), you've substantially weakened a good portion of your deck. Your cycling creatures can now only hope to see the field if they're hard-cast. You lose the "wrath" effect that Living End provides. Fulminator Mage loses some of its power. Forbidden Orchard goes back to being the turdy rainbow land that it is.
Nonetheless, I went with this sideboard idea in my Spread 'em deck and it works very well. I just don't know that it's the best way to handle the sideboard for this particular deck. I'd be interested to see people try it out and post results, though.
I initially knocked Street Wraith for having irrelevant evasion, but now I'm thinking of bumping him up to a 3-of, and cutting Architects entirely, replacing those 2 remaining slots with something else. Any suggestions?
I already run a single Steam Vents in my maindeck so I can fetch it out and cast Architects of Will when I draw them late game, so my mana base already runs enough blue mana to also consider Mulldrifters. What do you all think?
Standard: :symu::symu::symu: Mono-Blue Devotion :symu::symu::symu:
Modern: :symr::symu: UR Pyro-Faeries :symu::symr:
EDH Decks:
Thassa, God of VALUE (now with decklist!)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
People with signatures are morons.
I don't think Mulldrifter is explosive enough to justify weakening an already-volatile landbase. Sure, it gets two cards early, and two more down the line, but it's not like we're strapped for draw to begin with. All of our cyclers keep our hand full, and once we Living End, the game is typically over within 1-2 turns anyway.
In all of my testing and playing the deck, I think I've been hellbent exactly once, and it was against a really bad Mono-B discard deck. And as for casting Architects of Will... meh. That's another perk that wouldn't be worth splashing blue for.
My vote: Stick with Jund colors. A full hand isn't what we're after; it's a full graveyard.
Speeding up the deck isn't ideal. You want to be cycling enough creatures into your graveyard that when you combo off, you can win within a turn or two. Speeding up the combo just makes it less likely. It's better to look for ways to slow your opponent down, than to speed yourself up.
Incidentally, I did have a thought about a transformational deck. Addin W would both allow access to some more control elements, and the possibility of swapping out the living end combo for Necromancer's Covenant instead, blanking much of the hate in game two or three. Particularly against white decks that are likely to try to stop us with Rule of Law and/or Ethersworn Cannonist to kill cascade, this gives us another way to win off of a graveyard full of terrible creatures.
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“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Someone 4-0d a MTGO daily with 3 Simian Spirit Guides. Relative to this person's previous list (which went 3-1), the deck took out 2 Jungle Weaver and a land for the Spirit Guides.
I think the idea has merit. True, normally you'll want to wait until T3 to Living End so you have enough creatures to bring back. But sometimes doing it T2 helps. Also, unexpectedly being able to pay for Cursecatcher or Spell Pierce can be useful.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Standard: :symu::symu::symu: Mono-Blue Devotion :symu::symu::symu:
Modern: :symr::symu: UR Pyro-Faeries :symu::symr:
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Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
People with signatures are morons.
I don't even like Jungle Weaver, so taking out one card I wouldn't play for another card I wouldn't play still doesn't sound like something I want to be doing.
If I am cycling, I want to pay 1 (or 2 life if possible). I will landcycle for 2 off of four slots total (4 Valley Rannets for preference, but I could see mixing it up if I go 5 colour as I am tempted).
I'd look into more evoke creatures, or similar ways to control the board while preparing for the living end, rahter than adding a creature that actually detracts from the effectiveness of the deck. Maybe if it was discarded for mana it would be different, but as it is it is a creature that doesn't cycle or evoke, and even if you do get it into play, is even more underwhelming than the rest of the creatures in the deck. A short list of better cards to add:
Regardless of whether someone 4-0'd with a faster list, the focus should really be on adding resilience and control, not speed. Comboing out faster just means a less useful combo.
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
It's not just about comboing faster. It's about giving you more flexibility to deal with your opponent's gameplan. In other words, it does add resilience and control.
It allows you to combo on turn 2 if you're facing an extremely fast aggro draw or expect that if you wait a turn your opponent will drop hate/have too much countermagic.
It allows you to cycle an additional 1-cost cycler and still combo on turn 3.
It allows you to pay for Cursecatcher on turn 3 or Spell Pierce on turn 4. This is especially useful since your opponent might not expect you to be able to pay.
It allows a t2 Fulminator Mage or Beast Within if needed, potentially into t3 combo.
And finally, it's a Grey Ogre if you really need one.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
First off, Shriekmaw obviously killed something to end up in your graveyard. Thus, when Living End reanimates it, it will also reanimate whatever Shriekmaw killed, giving Shriekmaw a target that doesn't belong to you. No drawback
Deadshot Minotaur's drawback is negligible, as the only thing it will hit is Faerie Macabre, and that's assuming your opponent doesn't have a target it can hit. If you're really all that worried about it, run more Architects of Will and fewer Deadshots. I wouldn't recommend it, though.
As for the Spirit Guide argument, I would tend to err toward not using it. I feel like it encourages the mana flood, which is kind of a ballache in this deck. But I haven't had to deal with a lot of control thus far, so maybe I just haven't seen its true usefulness shine yet. The popularity of Merfolk is the main thing that makes me consider it.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
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UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
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Just want to reinforce that spoilers are not allowed here until the entire set has been spoiled (which is normally 1-2 days before the pre-release)
We have a thread for spoiler discussion.
ASW didn't quite explain it right. The Shriekmaw thing is irrelevant, since Shriekmaw can just re-kill whatever he was evoked on anyway.
Faerie Macabre is incredibly useful because it, like most of the creatures in this deck, ends up in your graveyard while doing something for you. Here's a list of the reasons I love this gal:
1. It hoses your opponents by making Living End even worse for them (sometimes they'll end up with creatures in their graveyards too).
2. It stops anything and everything with Flashback, Retrace, Unearth, and Dredge (Life from the Loam, Raven's Crime, Anathemancer)
3. It responds to Snapcaster Mage and ruins his day.
4. It makes Tarmogoyf weaker.
5. It removes Martyr of Sands to keep them from using Proclamation of Rebirth on it.
6. It's great in the mirror.
7. It makes Knight of the Reliquary weaker.
8. It stops Melira, Sylvok Outcast from comboing with Kitchen Finks/ Murderous Redcap.
9. It makes Storm's Rite of Flames weaker, as well as keeping them from using Past in Flames.
Wish I could come up with a tenth one, for evenness sake. But yes, these are some great reasons to run five Faerie Macabre.
Fulminator Mage got a little bit worse when 12-Post went away, but it's still amazing. It's just a personal choice for now, but it does take care of a lot of things for us, especially since Merfolk is so popular. Hitting Mutavault is nice (though personally I prefer EoT Violent Outburst to kill it ;D).
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
Come Pucatrade with me
Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR