With Wild Nacatl banned, it's time to update our decklists. With all the undercosted vanilla beatsticks we have, I don't think this will hurt us much. Loam Lion/Kird Ape lost a point of damage and that's it. Here's my new list.
I would cut the molten rains and probably the hierarchs. Add either lynxes, guides, or more Kird apes. Molten rain either becomes bigger threats or tribal flames, as I don't think LD is what this deck wants to be doing. If you want to go that route though, blood braid into boom//bust is the trick.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I'm not a huge fan of tribal flames as it seems like a more expensive lightning bolt to me. I had the deck setup without hierarch but after extensive playtesting and advice from several of my friends, I put them back in. Also, you'll notice almost every zoo deck that did well at Worlds Modern was running 4 hierarch. The only ones that did well and didn't have hierarch had snapcaster in that slot. I'll try running tribal flames in place of molten rain and see if that speeds the deck up.
What do you think about another Trygon predator in the sideboard or a sword of war and peace or feast and famine?
I'm not a huge fan of tribal flames as it seems like a more expensive lightning bolt to me.
In addition to its ability to hit the opponent directly for one quarter of their starting life total, Tribal Flames also kills a lot of creatures that you'd otherwise need Path to Exile to get rid of. Specifically, it kills Tarmogoyf and usually hits Knight of the Reliquary as well.
Tribal Flames does require a heavier shockland base. You generally play 1 of each Naya shock, 1 of each Naya-Primary Splash shock, and 1 Naya-Secondary Splash shock to fully support Tribal Flames.
Tribal Blue Zoo, for example, would play 1 Blood Crypt and 1 shock each for WURG.
No, because I feel there are better cards for this deck. He's a great card in almost any deck, but I just don't think he quite fits into what zoo wants to do in this format.
In addition to its ability to hit the opponent directly for one quarter of their starting life total, Tribal Flames also kills a lot of creatures that you'd otherwise need Path to Exile to get rid of. Specifically, it kills Tarmogoyf and usually hits Knight of the Reliquary as well.
Only if you want to run a 5 color mana base. Adding different shocklands that hurt me in other ways but make tribal flames do 1 extra damage the one or two times a game I cast it doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to a run a 5 color modern zoo, sure tribal flames is insanely powerful. However, good luck getting the rest of your deck consistent enough to top 8 at major events.
Agreed. Domain zoo is definitely where it's at right now. Snapcaster on Tribal Flames is definitely how I want to be beating my opponents. And getting the shocks is relatively easy and makes your card pool flexible, not too mention the deck itself. GerryT gave the deck a 9/10 which is enough confidence I need to finally buy Tiagos and get good.
There will certainly be other successful zoo lists, especially well tuned hierarch/Bant style lists. But 2 mana for five damage is serious efficiency, and that is zoo's core component.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
If you got any other possible reason to go against it (aka budget/availability) don't blame the only form of zoo that is actually getting results as unplayable.. or you'll be soon labelled as a troll..
Budget is not a consideration, I just want the best zoo deck possible. I've already spent over $1,000 on cards for this deck so another $50 for snapcasters isn't a big deal. I just like Geist of Saint Traft better in that slot. I especially like the idea of attacking with geist and using Elspeth's +3/+3 flying buff on geist. Then you have a 4/4 flyer and a 5/5 flyer attacking at once plus whatever else you're throwing at them. That should be enough to deliver lethal by turn 5/6. I will test it with geist and with snapcaster and let you guys know what happens. I already have 4 colors in my mana base so I might also take out a mountain for a blood crypt as I rarely get pathed more than twice in a game.
Snapcaster is definitely not an auto-include, I just like that he can rebuy your best removal and burn in the mid-game. Because of that, he's less vulnerable to the typical problems zoo faces: sweepers and big roadblocks. Also, the more we operate at instant speed the more control we have over the game's tempo, which means more opportunity to outplay our opponents. That's probably my biggest "(thumbs up) Like" about Tiago.
Geist is good, and with a ramp-style Zoo deck you want to have plays like turn 2 geist into turn 3 elspeth, swing for 12. Pretty good. But I think you might find some number of Snapcasters (2 maybe? try 2 :)) will help as long as you're still playing with:
4 Bolt
4 Path
4 Helix.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I swapped a mountain for a blood crypt to make tribal flames do 1 extra damage. Lavamancer came out for Geist of Saint Traft. Ranger of Eos came out of the side for Snapcaster.
I'm also thinking about taking Gideon out of the sideboard for something like spell pierce or surgical extraction. I almost never side him in so I think it's time for him to go.
Yes, molten rain in the list was a typo. It was supposed to be tribal flames. Also, Trygon Predator and Behemoth Sledge were just cards I was experimenting with. I'm going to take them out. Here's my new list after more playtesting last night.
4x Arid Mesa
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Marsh Flats
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
1x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Kird Ape
2x Loam Lion
2x Qasali Pridemage
Spells - 16
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Helix
4x Molten Rain
Planeswalkers - 2
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Rule of Law
2x Ranger of Eos
2x Gideon Jura
1x Behemoth Sledge
1x Trygon Predator
I'm thinking of taking out the Rangers and Sledge in the side for another Trygon Predator and a couple swords. What do you guys think?
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
What do you think about another Trygon predator in the sideboard or a sword of war and peace or feast and famine?
In addition to its ability to hit the opponent directly for one quarter of their starting life total, Tribal Flames also kills a lot of creatures that you'd otherwise need Path to Exile to get rid of. Specifically, it kills Tarmogoyf and usually hits Knight of the Reliquary as well.
Tribal Blue Zoo, for example, would play 1 Blood Crypt and 1 shock each for WURG.
No, because I feel there are better cards for this deck. He's a great card in almost any deck, but I just don't think he quite fits into what zoo wants to do in this format.
Only if you want to run a 5 color mana base. Adding different shocklands that hurt me in other ways but make tribal flames do 1 extra damage the one or two times a game I cast it doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to a run a 5 color modern zoo, sure tribal flames is insanely powerful. However, good luck getting the rest of your deck consistent enough to top 8 at major events.
There will certainly be other successful zoo lists, especially well tuned hierarch/Bant style lists. But 2 mana for five damage is serious efficiency, and that is zoo's core component.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Budget is not a consideration, I just want the best zoo deck possible. I've already spent over $1,000 on cards for this deck so another $50 for snapcasters isn't a big deal. I just like Geist of Saint Traft better in that slot. I especially like the idea of attacking with geist and using Elspeth's +3/+3 flying buff on geist. Then you have a 4/4 flyer and a 5/5 flyer attacking at once plus whatever else you're throwing at them. That should be enough to deliver lethal by turn 5/6. I will test it with geist and with snapcaster and let you guys know what happens. I already have 4 colors in my mana base so I might also take out a mountain for a blood crypt as I rarely get pathed more than twice in a game.
Geist is good, and with a ramp-style Zoo deck you want to have plays like turn 2 geist into turn 3 elspeth, swing for 12. Pretty good. But I think you might find some number of Snapcasters (2 maybe? try 2 :)) will help as long as you're still playing with:
4 Bolt
4 Path
4 Helix.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
4x Arid Mesa
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Marsh Flats
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
1x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Blood Crypt
1x Plains
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Kird Ape
2x Loam Lion
2x Qasali Pridemage
Spells - 16
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Helix
4x Molten Rain
Planeswalkers - 2
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Rule of Law
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Gideon Jura
1x Behemoth Sledge
1x Trygon Predator
I swapped a mountain for a blood crypt to make tribal flames do 1 extra damage. Lavamancer came out for Geist of Saint Traft. Ranger of Eos came out of the side for Snapcaster.
I'm also thinking about taking Gideon out of the sideboard for something like spell pierce or surgical extraction. I almost never side him in so I think it's time for him to go.
4x Arid Mesa
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Marsh Flats
1x Scalding Tarn
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
1x Godless Shrine
1x Breeding Pool
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Plains
1x Forest
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Loam Lion
2x Qasali Pridemage
Spells - 16
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Helix
4x Tribal Flames
Planeswalkers - 2
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Mindbreak Trap
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Deathmark
1x Rule of Law
1x Sword of War and Peace