Rate the 2-drops

  • #1
    Didnt want to take over the reprint thread with this so I brought it here.

    2-drops we are considering

    Goyf
    SFM
    Bob
    Snapcaster

    Rate them from top to bottom and please give reasons why.

    My rank and why

    1) SFM - tutors and cheats out powerful cards. If not countered or killed when he hits the table you probably lose the game. (banned in Modern)
    2) Snapcaster - A resolved Snappy can win the game THAT TURN. If he dont win you the game that turn he swings it in your favor.
    3) Bob - If he lives a couple turns, the card advantage you gain is back breaking in most cases.
    4) Goyf - Vanilla beater that needs turns to change the game. Can get huge if you are not careful. Put him on the bottom because he does nothing but turn sideways (he does it very well tho) he doesnt gain card advantage, tutor anything or bring anything back from your graveyard.
  • #2
    1.) Snapcaster Mage
    ...
    51.) SFM
    52.) Bob
    53.) Goyf
    54.) Lotus Cobra
    55.) Sakura-Tribe Elder
    56.) Wall of Omens
    etc.
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  • #3
    1) Bob
    -Sticking him for just a few turns *will* win you the game. Raw power at it's finest. It's backbreaking against control, and in the aggro mirror, and is the best form of card advantage in the format.

    2) Stoneforge Mystic
    -A tutor, and mana acceleration. Granted, yo have to dedicate other slots in your deck to make her good, but she's worth it.

    3) Snapcaster Mage
    -The only other good form of card advantage available in Modern, though weaker than in other formats due to Modern having so few legal targets that are decent.

    4) Tarmogoyf
    -Weakest of the 4 in a vacuum, but most played due to it's sheer versatility.
    In reference to Stoneforge Mystic
    Quote from bocephus
    Cost one less then tinker and has legs (I wont even go into the extra cost for tinker)... To me thats better.
  • #4
    1) Stoneforge Mystic - Its really close between her and Bob but she fits into more decks and gives your opponent a very small window to stop her shenanigans.

    2) Bob - Sticking him for 2+ turns will literally win you the game 90% of the time, at this point you've usually gotten so much of a resource advantage you pretty much can't lose unless you get really bad flips/draws and they draw the nuts or you're already hugely far behind.

    3) Snapcaster Mage - He can make some very back breaking plays or help you burn your opponent out, the problem is that the best targets for him, things like Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, and Stifle aren't legal in the format.

    4) Tarmogoyf - Definitely the weakest of the bunch, he's just a big dumb vanilla creature who is very efficient.
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  • #5
    Which poses the question why the **** is Goyf more money than all the rest...

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  • #6
    Quote from DXI-Edge
    Which poses the question why the **** is Goyf more money than all the rest...


    He was from the second small set of a block (i.e. not drafted much). Bob and Tiagos are from large sets, and Stoneforge being banned everywhere kills demand.
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  • #7
    Quote from DaGarver
    He was from the second small set of a block (i.e. not drafted much). Bob and Tiagos are from large sets, and Stoneforge being banned everywhere kills demand.


    AND.... other than Goyf and maybe a couple of other cards (Pacts) Future Sight is kind of a crap set.

    1.Bob- stand alone card advantage on a stick- requires immediate removal
    2. Snapcaster Mage- powerful, but needs spells played to utilize
    3. Goyf- Same as above, but can be played as early as t3 to a decent effect with Spell Pierce or Spell Snare back up
    4. SFM- Honestly, it needs equipment and creatures to equip to. That said, the potential for uncounterable Batterskulls is ****ing nuts.
    5. Lotus Cobra- So underplayed in this format, and can do really ridiculous things. Early fatty-boom-boom stonewalls against aggros and winning mana races against control.

    There's mine. Nice topic.
    Last edited by apaulogy: 11/23/2011 1:59:06 PM
  • #8
    1.A Tarmogoyf- The most efficient creature ever printed. 2 mana for a 3/4 is really good and it is often a 4/5.

    1.B. SFM- The card advantage this can creature with the ability to tutor is great and the ability to sneak in a batterskull is dumb. Not to mention that it has been used with other equipment in different decks. This and 2-3 equipment is worth splashing white in any deck no matter control, aggro or midrandge. Hell this would have been good as an alterante win condition in some combo decks...this is why it's banned.

    3. Dark confidant- A 2/1 body isn't very impressive especially in this format. This is the closest thing to a true card draw engine in modern its sad that you can't run it with expensive cards.

    4. Snapcaster Mage- again the 2/1 body is mostly worthless unless you run equipment. People mistakenly consider snappy card advantage when its really not. The thing snappy does best is it allows you to diversify your decks while still being able to maintain your specific spell count.
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  • #9
    Quote from DXI-Edge
    Which poses the question why the **** is Goyf more money than all the rest...

    Because Zoo is the best deck. You guys are considering this just in a vacuum, but when you look at all the other undercosted beaters Modern has to offer, Goyf just slides in there so nicely.

    Card advantage is great, but you can't use it if you're dead.
  • #10
    Quote from Stardust
    Because Zoo is the best deck. You guys are considering this just in a vacuum, but when you look at all the other undercosted beaters Modern has to offer, Goyf just slides in there so nicely.

    Card advantage is great, but you can't use it if you're dead.


    Because goyf is ubiquitous. People have been undervaluing it for being vanilla for years and they don't understand how they lost to a vanilla green creature. I mean for a 4/5 normally your going to be paying 3-4 mana and at least GG if not GWR or GR.

    It is so far ahead of the curve is ridiculous. Just having it your deck will often times make your deck better because goyf goes toe to toe with every other ground creature in the format.(sans KotR sometimes)
    In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.


    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

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  • #11
    SFM/Goyf
    SCM
    Bob

    SCM wins the turn it comes down? Holy overhyped, Batman!

    SCM zoo variants underperformed at worlds. He's definitely not awful, but you have to be realistic about him - he's like a Nekrataal/Mystic Snake, with a slightly weaker body and a graveyard restriction. His power comes from his versatility. A 2/1 body that doesn't hit the board until turn 3+ isn't going to do much without equipment, or without complete control of the board + the ability to handle topdecks.

    Goyf, while vanilla, is incredibly effective at closing the game. He dodges most red removal, he outmuscles other dudes, and he does it for the low price of two mana.
  • #12
    In Modern:

    1. Stoneforge Mystic: Basically, he's an Aether Vial and a Trinket Mage wrapped into one nice package. Vial is a Legacy staple, and Trinket Mage has seen plenty of play over a variety of formats. Generally, when you combine two good cards into one card, you get something pretty ridiculous, and Stonforge Mystic delivers. There are a ton of good equipment in Modern, in fact all equipments are in Modern, and getting them onto the table is always a bonus.

    2. Tarmogoyf: This guy is the beatstick of the format. He's fast, efficient, and no other Mono green threat compares.

    3. Snapcaster Mage: Honestly, the 2/1 body is almost irrelevant in this format- the format defining cards for creatures are Tarmo and Nacatl. As an instant-speed Recoup, this would have seen some play. I'm not knocking the card, he's as good as most relevant card in your graveyard, which is usually Tribal Flames, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, or Firespout, and you get a dude. Occasionally I've seen him alongside Life from the Loam and Worm Harvest, but he seems most at home alongside Red burn.

    4. Atog: He's basically a Goyf for a turn, and that makes him a format defining card. Scary thought, no?

    5. Dark Confidant: Good old Bob is a bit too slow, and a bit too life intensive for Modern. Bob is a card that desperately wants to slow-roll you with card advantage. Modern is a format defined by Red Affinity, Red Burn, Zoo, and Splinter Twin. What needs to change for Bob to be a force is for the meta to slow down a lot.
  • #13
    Quote from slipknot72102

    People mistakenly consider snappy card advantage when its really not.


    Cards that get your more cards = card advantage
    In reference to Stoneforge Mystic
    Quote from bocephus
    Cost one less then tinker and has legs (I wont even go into the extra cost for tinker)... To me thats better.
  • #14
    Limiting this to the modern format...

    1. SFM, hands down. Would single-handedly warp the meta, and there's a reason he's the banned one.

    2. Goyf. Nothing more to explain.

    3. SCM. His power scales with whatever format he's played in, so until swords to plowshares gets reprinted, he's not going to be taking goyf's place anytime soon.

    4. Cobra/Bob. Neither one of them really has a chance in a meta filled with grove/fire combos and lightning helixes.
  • #15
    Quote from honestabe
    Cards that get your more cards = card advantage


    not if they cost a card. snapcaster mage is only as good as what you flash back since the body is irrelevant outside of very specific circumstances.

    I.E.
    [CARD]
    Divination [/CARD]cost 1 card(itself) then you draw 2 cards. 2-1= +1
    Ghastly Discovery cost 1 card. Draw 2 discard 1. 2-2=0

    Snapcaster mage is essentially the same as playing the spell from your yard as it is from your hand except your paying 1U extra.
    In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.


    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

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  • #16
    This thread again. I see lots of familiar faces and lots of familiar responses. BUT, I am delighted we have a new 2-drop to talk about.

    1. SFM. Not a day goes by i don't want her in literally every deck I play. Puts an outstanding aggro package into ANY build with her super cheap tutoring, among other uses like instant equips, the obvious card advantage, etc.

    2. Snapcaster. Reusable removal, discard, countermagic, burn, on a stick.. He has not yet reached full potential. He is great now, and he will be a house soon.

    3. Tarmogoyf. I wanted so badly to put goyf at #2, but when i REALLY thought about it hard, i conceded that goyf is just not as good in Modern as he is in Legacy. I may catch a lot of flak for that, and it is a big position flip for me, but now that I have done extensive testing I really feel that goyf has lost a lot of his mojo here.

    4. Bob. Don't get me wrong, every single card on this list is an outstanding card. Bob is at the back of the pack by a very narrow margin, and it's because he is a little bit too slow in a meta with very little control. Back him up with a really solid control package, and he's probably #1 or #2.
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  • #17
    Glad to see someone else acknowledge Lotus Cobra. It's really stupid good.
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  • #18
    Quote from Raalic


    2. Snapcaster. Reusable removal, discard, countermagic, burn, on a stick.. He has not yet reached full potential. He is great now, and he will be a house soon.

    3. Tarmogoyf. I wanted to badly to put goyf at #2, but when i REALLY thought about it hard, i conceded that goyf is just not as good in Modern as he is in Legacy. I may catch a lot of flak for that, and it is a big position flip for me, but now that I have done extensive testing I really feel that goyf has lost a lot of his mojo here.


    My only issue with the assessment of snapcaster mage is that he is only as good as what your flashing back. If you flash back a path it is the same as playing it in your hand except your paying 1U for a pretty irrelevant 2/1 body.

    The best thing that snapcaster does goes completely unnoticed.....

    He is not card advantage, he doesn't win you the game, he isn't going to be broken. He is glue for control deck list.

    Sure goyf is slightly worse in modern than it is in legacy, but control, and combo are a hellova lot weaker.
    In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.


    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
    Albert Einstein


    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

    Thomas Jefferson

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  • #19
    One correction I would like to make is Goyf is a 0/1 that needs cards in the graveyard to get bigger. He rarely is a 3/4 or bigger IF he comes down turn 2. I normally see him as a 2/3 when he comes out. Eats smothers all day long.

    In reality the only 1 of the 4 that can just be throw into a deck with really no thought is Bob. The rest need a deck built around them to abuse what they are good at.
  • #20
    Quote from bocephus
    One correction I would like to make is Goyf is a 0/1 that needs cards in the graveyard to get bigger. He rarely is a 3/4 or bigger IF he comes down turn 2. I normally see him as a 2/3 when he comes out. Eats smothers all day long.

    In reality the only 1 of the 4 that can just be throw into a deck with really no thought is Bob. The rest need a deck built around them to abuse what they are good at.


    well you can't run bob with expensive cards. For goyf to be good you essentially have to play magic. Play tons of creatures or use it in tempo decks or use it in pox decks, ect, ect. I have seen it in the sideboard of punishing-twin list. Sure he won't always be a 3/4 or bigger, but as a 2/3 he can tangle with just about any other cheap creature, and he has a massive upside.
    In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.


    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

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  • #21
    Quote from honestabe
    Cards that get your more cards = card advantage
    Cards that net you extra spells when they come in to play are really more like tempo, than CA.
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  • #22
    Goyf
    Snapcaster
    Melira
    Spellskite
    Punishing Fire
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  • #23
    snapcaster is not broke as most of you think.

    Snapcaster is a more expensive version of whatever you flashblack. It does help deck building and it gives blue a way to use gifts without having to run eternal witness, but it doesn't win the game the turn you play it. It does not give you card advantage unless you flash back a card draw spell or you actually kill something with the meager 2/1 body.
    In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.


    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
    Albert Einstein


    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

    Thomas Jefferson

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  • #24
    What are you trying to prove? Snapcaster is a good card that was found in many decks at worlds. Zoo was splashing blue just to include him. Seems like a top pick for a 2 drop to me.
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    Not really too much to say about it. The guy is good, has a great deck and I played like the awful scrub I am.

  • #25
    Quote from DOLZero
    What are you trying to prove? Snapcaster is a good card that was found in many decks at worlds. Zoo was splashing blue just to include him. Seems like a top pick for a 2 drop to me.


    except that the zoo decks that ran him had a sub 50% while the other variant including simple zoo had over 55%.

    My point is people are over-hyping tiago so much it is silly. people saying dumb things like "you win the turn that you play him"...... I'm sorry but dumb statements like that drive me crazy.

    Its just like "goyf is just a vanilla beater why is it $100". It is $100 because it is a 2 mana 4/5 that any deck in the format can run. I mean sure it isn't flashy, but it just wins games. People put too much stock into abilities for small creatures and don't actually evaluate them for their purpose....to smash you opponents face in.......
    In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.


    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
    Albert Einstein


    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

    Thomas Jefferson

    League of Legends on MTGS
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