I tried making a deck with this combo in it for extended. It was more of a tezzerator deck though. It had time sieve + thopter assembly, forgemaster + blightsteel, both tezzerets and some other stuff. It could be easier to make it more consistent for Modern, but I think you would get rolled by aggro decks.
There is a Legacy Mud deck you may want to look at for inspiration as well.
The deck did get the inspiration from its Legacy/Vintage counterparts. I believe that it will work better here in Modern than in Legacy (the Legacy version is either inconsistent or slow). In a format slower than Legacy, we won't have to worry about speed.
Back to the decklist, I think at least a single Crucible of Worlds should be included in the deck. The reason is it allows Buried Ruins to be recured, as well as Tectonic Edges and Ghost Quarters. Though Ghost Quarter will not be as great, with 12-post being projected as a top deck, it wouldn't hurt running it.
I tested more and I don't really like trinisphere. It is just too slow, It is awesome in certain cituations, but those just dont arise enough. It is a sideboard card. I replaced the 3 Trinisphere with 3 Phyrexian Metamorph. Chalice on the other hand is just awesome. It destroys decks when set at 1 or 2 pretty much no matter how late you set it, because it still causes them to draw dead cards. you just need to know what to set it at. Here is how the deck stands as of now. I took out the 3 Glimmervoid (don't remember why they were there to be honest) and replaced them with a tec edge and 2 ghost quarters. I may switch those numbers around.
I tested more and I don't really like trinisphere. It is just too slow, It is awesome in certain cituations, but those just dont arise enough. It is a sideboard card. I replaced the 3 Trinisphere with 3 Phyrexian Metamorph. Chalice on the other hand is just awesome. It destroys decks when set at 1 or 2 pretty much no matter how late you set it, because it still causes them to draw dead cards. you just need to know what to set it at.
Based on your list, I have actually replaced Trinisphere with 2x Steel Hellkite and a Sundering Titan. The Hellkites are there since I have no means to get rid of early problematic permanents. I am still contemplating on Sundering Titans as it also destroys our own Islands.
How early can you get Chalice at one online? I have been running Simian Spirit Guide to do it right at turn one but it has been inconsistent. Do you just play it on turn two?
I also noticed that you're running 2 Ghost Quarter and 1 Tectonic Edge. I was testing 3/3 of each but I find that I'd always lack that Island when I needed Vedalken Engineer early. Which one would you prefer and what are the pros/cons of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge. Most of my test are against my buddy's still developing/casual decks so I have little definite answers against a real Modern meta.
I love steel hellkite because he destroys everyone, lol. its a pernicious deed every turn. zoo has 2 wild nocatal and lavamancer? all dead in one swing. I don't know if i like Sundering Titan, he is a good card don't get me wrong, but I feel you can do more when you are dropping a fatty.
Now that I think about it, Ghost quarter is infinitely better than Tec edge just because you are not limited by what turn you can use it. The only lands you are scared of in this format are the posts and Grove of the Burnwillows. Being able to hit those early slow down the 12 post lists and keep punishing fire off of your Engineers and Master Transmuters, which is obviously is really important. I might go a 2/2 split, 3/3 might be over doing it when you are running those with both Buried ruins and Darksteel Citadel.
Chalice always comes down on turn 2 or 3 for me. That is almost irreverent though and some simple math shows us why. The most popular lists of zoo run 16-24 1 drops and the rest are 2 drops besides knight of the reliquary. They can get down at max 3 one drops before our chalice is online. this leaves them with 13-21 dead cards in their deck. or 21-35% of their deck being dead draws. If you are thinking of threats, that is 33-54% of cards you are afraid of are dead. when 1 card from your hand, kills just under half of an opponents deck, that is basically physical win, it doesn't matter when you play it. I use zoo as the example because they are the epitome of a clock in the format, not much is going to race them in damage. Chalice at one also protect your small creatures from lightning bolt and path as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Looking at your OP, I don't know why Inkwell Leviathan isn't even considered as an option. It's a 7/11 with Islandwalk, Trample, and the godly Shroud. It's a 3-turn clock. Granted, it's more useful in Legacy and Vintage with Goblin Welders threatening to turn Blightsteel Colossus into useless Moxen or Great Furnaces, but it should be a legitimate option.
I playtested with a couple decks yesterday, mostly Gifts based control, Splinter Twin and Vampires. I find that Chalice at 1 is awesome as it shuts down Ponders and Path to Exiles among other things.
With the deck I've posted on the opening post, I think I will get rid of the Simian Spirit Guides and stick with 24 lands. I have had a couple of games where I got mana-screwed.
Its funny because of all the games I had, I never had an active Master Transmuter. I might change a couple of things, such as adding Grand Architect and Etherium Sculptor and build it ala Grand Architect in Standard right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
I playtested with a couple decks yesterday, mostly Gifts based control, Splinter Twin and Vampires. I find that Chalice at 1 is awesome as it shuts down Ponders and Path to Exiles among other things.
With the deck I've posted on the opening post, I think I will get rid of the Simian Spirit Guides and stick with 24 lands. I have had a couple of games where I got mana-screwed.
Its funny because of all the games I had, I never had an active Master Transmuter. I might change a couple of things, such as adding Grand Architect and Etherium Sculptor and build it ala Grand Architect in Standard right now.
I think this type of build would benefit the most from playing Thousand-year elixir.
Just think about it...you can forge, transmute, tap for mana as soon as your guy comes down, without having to resort to greaves AND you can untap the creature. Seems like its pretty damn tech.
I might change a couple of things, such as adding Grand Architect and Etherium Sculptor and build it ala Grand Architect in Standard right now.
I dont like this idea, lol. I want to be doing something more important on turn 3 than putting a Grand Architect in play. You can try it out and let me know, but from my testing, he is not something I was impressed with.
As for Thousand Year Elixer, It seems interesting, but the shroud provided by Greaves just seems too important to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
I dont like this idea, lol. I want to be doing something more important on turn 3 than putting a Grand Architect in play. You can try it out and let me know, but from my testing, he is not something I was impressed with.
As for Thousand Year Elixer, It seems interesting, but the shroud provided by Greaves just seems too important to me.
Oh im a full believer of the shroud business. The advantage with the elixir though is that your opponent does not have the chance to respond to your equip ability. The creatue can use it's ability immediately.
And considering the creatures that are required to tap in the deck, you really only need one activation. I think a combination of both those things could be used. The untap ability can lead to silly things though.
That said, in doing so, I think the deck should have multiple control elements as you can't pull that off forever. Possibly minimizing the number of robots and using Treasure Mage to tutor for them. It will essentially like its Standard counterpart but I'm hoping it will be faster, with the help of Alara block and Mirrodin block. I'm just waiting to get home, proxy a couple of cards and see if that idea would work.
On Lightning Greaves:
I agree with MoT_Pestilence. I am with the shroud. Also, it comes a turn earlier. Yes the equip can be responded to but that why Chalice of the Void and Spellskites are there, to minimize your opponent's answers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
That said, in doing so, I think the deck should have multiple control elements as you can't pull that off forever. Possibly minimizing the number of robots and using Treasure Mage to tutor for them. It will essentially like its Standard counterpart but I'm hoping it will be faster, with the help of Alara block and Mirrodin block. I'm just waiting to get home, proxy a couple of cards and see if that idea would work.
On Lightning Greaves:
I agree with MoT_Pestilence. I am with the shroud. Also, it comes a turn earlier. Yes the equip can be responded to but that why Chalice of the Void and Spellskites are there, to minimize your opponent's answers.
The thing is, I dont think it's a bad idea to have a split of it. Because the ability to use something right away AND to untap that creature so you can do it again should not be scoffed at.
It just gives you options. If someone hates on your greaves with something like extirpate, you at least have the elixir as well. that gives you reach.
i'll try it out in my build and report back when it get a chance.
Its definitely interesting. it might be a good idea to run 2/2. the only thing is that the list is so tight right now. I would have a hard time finding something to take out. I guess that's what testing is for though, lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
What about Birthing Pod? Sure it's off-color and the life might hurt, but Scarecrone, Birthing Pod, Myr Battlesphere, and Kuldotha Forgemaster could get pretty silly. A Pod version would have to use Glimmerposts for the lifegain though, or run Platinum Angel maindeck.
edit: Hell what about running Green? Garruk, Birthing Pod, Magus of the Candelabra are all ways to accelerate and cheat stuff in when running Tron or 12-post, Just like the blue cards.
What about Birthing Pod? Sure it's off-color and the life might hurt, but Scarecrone, Birthing Pod, Myr Battlesphere, and Kuldotha Forgemaster could get pretty silly. A Pod version would have to use Glimmerposts for the lifegain though, or run Platinum Angel maindeck.
edit: Hell what about running Green? Garruk, Birthing Pod, Magus of the Candelabra are all ways to accelerate and cheat stuff in when running Tron or 12-post, Just like the blue cards.
1) not enough creatures to run it
2) way too slow, ultimately
Birthing Pod is a good card but it's just not for this deck. Ultimately, the main goal is to cheat big game breaking robots via Kuldotha Forgemaster, Master Transmuter and Scarecrone. That alone is too diluted. The deck has no problem in cheating robots into play. The main concern right now is that it is a turn slow in what's it trying to do. Adding Birthing Pod does not make it faster.
One of the glaring problems I am facing is that the deck lacks a turn 1 play. Adding Simian Spirit Guide to somehow have a turn 1 Chalice at 1 is very awesome but also very inconsistent.
The idea of Grand Architect + Etherium Sculptor seems like the way to go (though the deck still lacks that turn 1) as in theory actually speeds the deck by a turn but in doing so, pieces have to be removed from the deck. What do you remove? The main cheat components? The robots you're trying to cheat in? The tools that protect your pieces? Lands/manabase? Thirst for Knowledge?
Also, I got this idea from MoT_Pestilence's post at the Legacy Forgemaster thread; Mindslaver would be good against control in this format. Maybe against most decks in general actually. Recurring it via Academy Ruins to create that lock.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
I've been using the grand architect engine to good results as well as a trinket Magellan package which is amazing...goodies like pitying needle...eexplosives...and covoid. Fabricate is decent as a tutor effect as well. I'm also using tyelixir MTtansmuter package with SSummoners to good effect. I also believe Spellskite is absolutely necessary. TFK is a house as well for draw and a recursion enabler. I also fell 2 copies of PMetamorph should do well as it is tutorable.broken. with MTransmuter and an out to Emrakul.
I don't know why but I just don't like grand architect. If he brings in awesome results for you guys let me know but he didn't work well for me.
As for metamorph I run 3 main, as well as one duplicant. Duplicant is sick with master transmuter, because he removes the Target from the game, making sure that emrakul is not just tutored up again with eye of ugin. And you can bounce and replay him over and over removing every fatty they drop, not just matching its power.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
As for metamorph I run 3 main, as well as one duplicant. Duplicant is sick with master transmuter, because he removes the Target from the game, making sure that emrakul is not just tutored up again with eye of ugin. And you can bounce and replay him over and over removing every fatty they drop, not just matching its power.
When you bounce Duplicant with the Master Transmuter, you do just return it to your hand, wait for the StifleTrickbind, then replay the same one again, right? It's more mana-efficient.
yeah, because of the semicolon in the text of the card comes after the return a creature part, you bounce, and then you put a creature into play, you are allowed to bounce and put into play the same creature that you bounced, which is sick with duplicant because he becomes an uncounterable removal effect combined with a clone effect. I don't know why you mentioned trickbind though...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Phyrexian metamorph is just sick. Grandy is just style dependent but the speed from the mana is sweet. If not him definitley trinket mage belongs though. Tutoring for eexplosives versus zoo is techy. Pithing needle and relic are also nice options to have. If your not playing grandy then id be playing some additional defensive option alongside spellskite. Maybe tumble magnets as they stall aggro and can be abused by master transmuter. Tfk is definitley a keeper for draw power. I also like brittle effigy as addional removal. I do think the deck needs some point kill as right now I have a split of pte and gftt.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
The deck did get the inspiration from its Legacy/Vintage counterparts. I believe that it will work better here in Modern than in Legacy (the Legacy version is either inconsistent or slow). In a format slower than Legacy, we won't have to worry about speed.
Back to the decklist, I think at least a single Crucible of Worlds should be included in the deck. The reason is it allows Buried Ruins to be recured, as well as Tectonic Edges and Ghost Quarters. Though Ghost Quarter will not be as great, with 12-post being projected as a top deck, it wouldn't hurt running it.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Scarecrone
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Master Transmuter
4 Vedalken Engineer
4 Spellskite
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Mox Opal
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Buried Ruin
12 Island
2 Academy Ruins
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Based on your list, I have actually replaced Trinisphere with 2x Steel Hellkite and a Sundering Titan. The Hellkites are there since I have no means to get rid of early problematic permanents. I am still contemplating on Sundering Titans as it also destroys our own Islands.
How early can you get Chalice at one online? I have been running Simian Spirit Guide to do it right at turn one but it has been inconsistent. Do you just play it on turn two?
I also noticed that you're running 2 Ghost Quarter and 1 Tectonic Edge. I was testing 3/3 of each but I find that I'd always lack that Island when I needed Vedalken Engineer early. Which one would you prefer and what are the pros/cons of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge. Most of my test are against my buddy's still developing/casual decks so I have little definite answers against a real Modern meta.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Now that I think about it, Ghost quarter is infinitely better than Tec edge just because you are not limited by what turn you can use it. The only lands you are scared of in this format are the posts and Grove of the Burnwillows. Being able to hit those early slow down the 12 post lists and keep punishing fire off of your Engineers and Master Transmuters, which is obviously is really important. I might go a 2/2 split, 3/3 might be over doing it when you are running those with both Buried ruins and Darksteel Citadel.
Chalice always comes down on turn 2 or 3 for me. That is almost irreverent though and some simple math shows us why. The most popular lists of zoo run 16-24 1 drops and the rest are 2 drops besides knight of the reliquary. They can get down at max 3 one drops before our chalice is online. this leaves them with 13-21 dead cards in their deck. or 21-35% of their deck being dead draws. If you are thinking of threats, that is 33-54% of cards you are afraid of are dead. when 1 card from your hand, kills just under half of an opponents deck, that is basically physical win, it doesn't matter when you play it. I use zoo as the example because they are the epitome of a clock in the format, not much is going to race them in damage. Chalice at one also protect your small creatures from lightning bolt and path as well.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
I playtested with a couple decks yesterday, mostly Gifts based control, Splinter Twin and Vampires. I find that Chalice at 1 is awesome as it shuts down Ponders and Path to Exiles among other things.
With the deck I've posted on the opening post, I think I will get rid of the Simian Spirit Guides and stick with 24 lands. I have had a couple of games where I got mana-screwed.
Its funny because of all the games I had, I never had an active Master Transmuter. I might change a couple of things, such as adding Grand Architect and Etherium Sculptor and build it ala Grand Architect in Standard right now.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I think this type of build would benefit the most from playing Thousand-year elixir.
Just think about it...you can forge, transmute, tap for mana as soon as your guy comes down, without having to resort to greaves AND you can untap the creature. Seems like its pretty damn tech.
I like Turtles
I dont like this idea, lol. I want to be doing something more important on turn 3 than putting a Grand Architect in play. You can try it out and let me know, but from my testing, he is not something I was impressed with.
As for Thousand Year Elixer, It seems interesting, but the shroud provided by Greaves just seems too important to me.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Oh im a full believer of the shroud business. The advantage with the elixir though is that your opponent does not have the chance to respond to your equip ability. The creatue can use it's ability immediately.
And considering the creatures that are required to tap in the deck, you really only need one activation. I think a combination of both those things could be used. The untap ability can lead to silly things though.
I like Turtles
I have had a couple of theorycrafting with a couple buddies of mine and it is possible to pull off a turn 2 Forgemaster. Consistently turn 3 with Vedalken Engineer.
That said, in doing so, I think the deck should have multiple control elements as you can't pull that off forever. Possibly minimizing the number of robots and using Treasure Mage to tutor for them. It will essentially like its Standard counterpart but I'm hoping it will be faster, with the help of Alara block and Mirrodin block. I'm just waiting to get home, proxy a couple of cards and see if that idea would work.
On Lightning Greaves:
I agree with MoT_Pestilence. I am with the shroud. Also, it comes a turn earlier. Yes the equip can be responded to but that why Chalice of the Void and Spellskites are there, to minimize your opponent's answers.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
The thing is, I dont think it's a bad idea to have a split of it. Because the ability to use something right away AND to untap that creature so you can do it again should not be scoffed at.
It just gives you options. If someone hates on your greaves with something like extirpate, you at least have the elixir as well. that gives you reach.
i'll try it out in my build and report back when it get a chance.
I like Turtles
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
edit: Hell what about running Green? Garruk, Birthing Pod, Magus of the Candelabra are all ways to accelerate and cheat stuff in when running Tron or 12-post, Just like the blue cards.
1) not enough creatures to run it
2) way too slow, ultimately
I like Turtles
One of the glaring problems I am facing is that the deck lacks a turn 1 play. Adding Simian Spirit Guide to somehow have a turn 1 Chalice at 1 is very awesome but also very inconsistent.
The idea of Grand Architect + Etherium Sculptor seems like the way to go (though the deck still lacks that turn 1) as in theory actually speeds the deck by a turn but in doing so, pieces have to be removed from the deck. What do you remove? The main cheat components? The robots you're trying to cheat in? The tools that protect your pieces? Lands/manabase? Thirst for Knowledge?
Also, I got this idea from MoT_Pestilence's post at the Legacy Forgemaster thread; Mindslaver would be good against control in this format. Maybe against most decks in general actually. Recurring it via Academy Ruins to create that lock.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
As for metamorph I run 3 main, as well as one duplicant. Duplicant is sick with master transmuter, because he removes the Target from the game, making sure that emrakul is not just tutored up again with eye of ugin. And you can bounce and replay him over and over removing every fatty they drop, not just matching its power.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
When you bounce Duplicant with the Master Transmuter, you do just return it to your hand, wait for the
StifleTrickbind, then replay the same one again, right? It's more mana-efficient.-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX