What does everyone think of Realms uncharted in 12-post? It seems like fetching vesuva, cloudpost, eye of ugin, and glimmerpost for 3 mana is good. Is it good enough for the deck?
Note, I know nothing about modern, and this is pure speculation. I just want to know whether or not should buy a bunch of these at the 50 cents they are going for.
What does everyone think of Realms uncharted in 12-post? It seems like fetching vesuva, cloudpost, eye of ugin, and glimmerpost for 3 mana is good. Is it good enough for the deck?
Note, I know nothing about modern, and this is pure speculation. I just want to know whether or not should buy a bunch of these at the 50 cents they are going for.
Pretty much always going to end up with a cloudpost and a vesuva in the graveyard.
Cards like Realms Uncharted and Gifts Ungiven work best with graveyard recursion tricks like Academy Ruins and Life from the Loam. I don't know if you want to warp the deck around that, but if you're splashing blue Gifts and LftL are an option I suppose.
Ok you clearly haven't tester a proper list it seems. Tutoring for lands is much slower then grabbing stuff like signets etc.
If you have to tutor for your cloudpost the earliest you can play it is turn 3, that basically means you never ever have the turn 3 titan and rarely a turn 4 titan, how is that fast?
Note that the only combination of mana you can have that enables p.titan on turn 4 if you didn't play explore is 2 cloudposts and 2 forests. The chances of that happening are just pretty low.
Now imagine you are playing signets etc instead of the land tutor. If you have an opening of cloudpost+vesuva or cloudpost + cloudpost you can simply go signet turn 2 and forest + p.titan turn 3. With cloudpost and glimmerpost you can do nutty stuff as turn 2 signet + turn 2 wall of roots/explore. Land tutoring is much worse then simply playing some acceleration as this deck aims to be hitting a titan as quickly as possible, tutoring only helps for hitting the huge amount of mana a few turns later which a titan does much better...
You simply have no clue how to make this deck properly, you play green with the intent of racing to a titan really so the deck should be focussed to do so. If you want to tutor and play it slower you are better off playing U or UW without titans imo which is a totally different deck.
Yyyes and no.. with less land-tutoring, you're consistently going to end up with fewer c-posts on the board. The ramp from the signets helps drop a turn 3/4 titan, but you still have to have a perfect hand/topdeck. Land-tutoring is much more consistent and puts up much larger numbers, just a turn or so slower.
I've been following this thread closely and have to say I'm kinda baffled by @Feuerdrache's list.
This is how I see this deck:
Turn 4-5 Primeval Titan, and that's it, you win! I really don't see that in this list.
First of all, too many monsters. I think I'd spend those slots on GSZ. Why GSZ, you ask? First of all, they double the titans that basically win the game. So you are afraid of Gaddock? Take more Eldrazi out and add Beast Withins.
You wanna know what else GSZ does that is nuts? Get you a Dryad Arbor on turn 1.
And while we're at it, if you're having trouble with land disruption, some Wall of Roots might do the trick! They enter the battlefield turn 2 forward and can give you one mana right away. Pretty kewl, I'm my opinion, specially since they are also GSZable, and GSZs go right into the deck, meaning you can still draw them again for a titan.
Ah, about Tooth and Nail I actually took it out of my list but I don't think it's that bad, even with no Urabrask. It's 9 mana but, pretty much like a titan it wins you the game. You can't even compare it with a Kozilek that dies for a path to Exile and can't attack anyway because it gives you no extra turn! With Toothe you basically drop Emrakul and a titan that will net you ~10 life allowing you to live long enough to attack. Sure, it's not as good as either GSZ or Primeval Titan because it's more expensive, but it's still playable if you need more kill cards.
Isn't Overgrown battlement better than Wall of roots in your build? Other than that I think you meant Explore and not Exploration in your decklist.
Just my 2 cents.
I feel people are overstating the usefulness of Dryad Arbor. It is only useful as a zenith target and, quite frankly, there are better things to do on turn one with this deck. Saying that it is a viable play in Legacy isn't really an argument since the decks that pack that 1-2 punch are completely different animals altogether.
If the only reason people play it is to speed up the deck Amulet of Vigor does that job way better, especially since multiples stack and at that time casting a Primeval Titan is simply backbreaking.
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I have been having a lot of trouble against Urzatron today . . . bleh. I bring my own Ghost Quarters, Crucibles, and Beast Withins to the fight. They have Gifts Ungiven, though.
You simply have no clue how to make this deck properly, you play green with the intent of racing to a titan really so the deck should be focussed to do so. If you want to tutor and play it slower you are better off playing U or UW without titans imo which is a totally different deck.
Calm the **** down Mr. Pro Player, and come back at me with some testing data. Thanks.
Because I'm not an unreasonable person, I'm going to go ahead and modify my build with your suggestions and run it through a gauntlet to see how it does. If it comes back with better numbers, I'll change it. What I expect from you regardless is to go ahead and supply testing data to back up claims like, "You have no idea how to build this deck," rather than just spouting theory at me, which I could do back all month and get neither of us anywhere. Deal?
I've been following this thread closely and have to say I'm kinda baffled by @Feuerdrache's list.
This is how I see this deck:
Turn 4-5 Primeval Titan, and that's it, you win! I really don't see that in this list.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Primeval Titan doesn't always get there. He's very, very good, but he doesn't always win the game straight out. The concept of my build is to ramp to Eldrazi more so than Primeval Titan, but have no fear it drops that dude with regularity.
I playing 2, 12 post deck now Mono Green 12 post and Mono Blue 12 post I can't beat anything but Mono Blue with Mono green. Too much hate out the blood moon, ghost quarters, leonin arbiter, grand abolisher without counters spells how do u stop these things?
I find this quite surprising. You have a main deck answer to most of those threats: Beast Within. If they play more than one threat consistently, that basically means they aren't doing what they should to win in their normal fashion, which just gives you more time. I'll even go as far as saying this deck can be a decent challenge and win some games against it's biggest threats with no sideboard at all, which is actually what's making me more hyped to play this in the first place.
The thing is though, if your opponents drop magus of the moon or blood moon you're pretty much as good as gone.
Can't agree. With 4 Beast Withins, 4 Wall of Roots, 4 GSZ and 4 Explore I think I have time to build up to 7 mana and play an All Is Dust clearing the board. It's hard, but not even close to impossible.
You're saying you're always gonna leave 3 mana free from T3 onwards? Considering that a good portion of your lands CIPT, this is very unlikely, especially early on. After they drop that hate on you the only way you would have mana is if you say played a wall of roots on T2... which you can't completely rely on.
What I'm saying is that, in the situation where say you're on the draw, tap out T2 without roots (not an unlikely situation), they drop magus / blood moon next turn and you can't do anything. You end up losing alot of virtual card advantage and your only lifeline is basically drawing an all is dust.
Why do I need to leave the mana untapped? I keep playing as normal, dropping Locus, Walls and everything else as they come. When the clock ticks you destroy the moon on the opponent's EOT. It sucks to have mountains coming into play tapped for no additional advantage, but I think it's manageable.
I'm getting the feeling you think forests are turned into mountains too
My god... my deepest apologies, it's rather late and my brain isn't functioning as well as it should. You're quite right. In that case, it does nullify my case for the greater part, I still feel as though this deck has more trouble dealing with land hate than say Mono U 12 post, that being said obviously both decks have their cons and pros.
So... Vesuva's quadrupled in value over the course of the past 12 days. Starting to get legitimately nervous about the banhammer coming down hard on 12-post once tourney results start coming in. If not, I'm glad I got mine years ago..
So... Vesuva's quadrupled in value over the course of the past 12 days. Starting to get legitimately nervous about the banhammer coming down hard on 12-post once tourney results start coming in. If not, I'm glad I got mine years ago..
They don't ban things because of cost. 12-post is good, but it's not going to overwhelm the competition. The format is pretty evenly matched at the moment.
They don't ban things because of cost. 12-post is good, but it's not going to overwhelm the competition. The format is pretty evenly matched at the moment.
Well aware of that. I've written much about that very subject. I'm not even suggesting they're going to ban Vesuva... That would be monumentally stupid. Much more likely to just ban Glimmerpost. I'm suggesting that the rising price indicates that they're flying off the shelves at alarming rates considering the 400% jump in price in less than two weeks, meaning that everyone and their mothers are getting their 12-post decks ready for Modern.
Shocklands have doubled because they're staples in every Modern deck. Vesuva has quadrupled because it's the one 4-of auto-include rare in ONE deck, and it's still rising. I'm just thinking that this deck is going to be hugely represented in the months to come, and I doubt very much that its results will be disappointing.
They did say the current bannings were a little rushed in order to control the Pro Tour. It's a legitimate concern to worry about bannings. And of course, other cards might come off the list.
Just a heads-up, I won't be able to do any testing for a few days, because my computer is completely out of commission. I'm posting from my phone like usual. So far sample hands with the green accelerant version are mixed. It's not good at getting Cloudposts, and it feels slower. It is good at getting Titan, though, which kind balances out the slow pickup of posts.
For the last few days I've been testing a Ancient Stirrings list and I've been extremely happy with it. While it lacks that explosive factor I had with TAN, it never really seems too much slower. The deck as a whole feels far more balanced with the added dig. While a turn 4 is less unlikely, turn 5/6 is well within reach most games.
As far as hate goes, I've found my mono-g 12 post survives fairly well. Primeval Titan alone allows us to ignore moon effects, and it allows us to accelerate out of targeted LD. In both lists I ran maxed out Primeval Titan and Green Sun's Zenith and never regretted it. The reliability you gain is indescribable. I may be using Primeval as a crutch, but it really doesn't seem to be working out too bad. I also recommend maindecking at least 3 Beast Within. It is the ultimate catchall and it is easily castable under a moon.
While I can appreciate the speed Amulet of Vigor gives when drawn as a singleton, I can't imagine running such a volatile topdeck. Drawing multiples is rather irritating. If you could run 3 that would be fine, but that defeats the purpose of running the card itself. You always want to find and play it early, so you have to run 4. However, if you end up running into a few you could really start to make a good hand bad. That issue alone leads me to believe its a janky card that doesn't belong in this deck.
Anyways, thats just my .02. Here's the list I've been testing lately:
That or everyone's waiting on baited breath to hear about my testing results, because seriously I appear to be the only one offering a contrarian list.
There really isn't much more to consider with this deck. You can only change so much. Perhaps splash white for Sacred Ground if you don't like LD?
That or everyone's waiting on baited breath to hear about my testing results, because seriously I appear to be the only one offering a contrarian list.
There really isn't much more to consider with this deck. You can only change so much. Perhaps splash white for Sacred Ground if you don't like LD?
If I did any splash it would be black for Thoughtseize and Memoricide. Combo is really the only MU that has given my list issues. LD short of Thoughts of Ruin shouldn't be able to stop this deck, so splashing for protection is pointless.
After recent testing, I'm pretty sure this deck is primer-ready. Question is whether we merge with U-post and make a generalized 12-post primer, or make a separate primer for G-post. The decks are, in fact, quite different. Not sure how to proceed. Nevertheless, before we do, I'd like to test my deck against Feuerdrache's build. Once we have his results and the results of the mirror, we can proceed.
After recent testing, I'm pretty sure this deck is primer-ready. Question is whether we merge with U-post and make a generalized 12-post primer, or make a separate primer for G-post. The decks are, in fact, quite different. Not sure how to proceed. Nevertheless, before we do, I'd like to test my deck against Feuerdrache's build. Once we have his results and the results of the mirror, we can proceed.
It looks like the most predominant post build on todays daily was a UG mix! I think 12post should just have a primer, and include U/G/Ug since they are all 3 hitting 4-0s right now.
After recent testing, I'm pretty sure this deck is primer-ready. Question is whether we merge with U-post and make a generalized 12-post primer, or make a separate primer for G-post. The decks are, in fact, quite different. Not sure how to proceed. Nevertheless, before we do, I'd like to test my deck against Feuerdrache's build. Once we have his results and the results of the mirror, we can proceed.
Mono-U and Mono-G are really different decks, and the strategies you use against them are really different. It's similar to the difference between Stax and MUD in Vintage. Yeah, they're both Mishra's Workshop decks, but they play out very differently. Same goes for Mono G and Mono U 12post.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Note, I know nothing about modern, and this is pure speculation. I just want to know whether or not should buy a bunch of these at the 50 cents they are going for.
Pretty much always going to end up with a cloudpost and a vesuva in the graveyard.
CG
Yyyes and no.. with less land-tutoring, you're consistently going to end up with fewer c-posts on the board. The ramp from the signets helps drop a turn 3/4 titan, but you still have to have a perfect hand/topdeck. Land-tutoring is much more consistent and puts up much larger numbers, just a turn or so slower.
CG
Isn't Overgrown battlement better than Wall of roots in your build? Other than that I think you meant Explore and not Exploration in your decklist.
Just my 2 cents.
If the only reason people play it is to speed up the deck Amulet of Vigor does that job way better, especially since multiples stack and at that time casting a Primeval Titan is simply backbreaking.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Calm the **** down Mr. Pro Player, and come back at me with some testing data. Thanks.
Because I'm not an unreasonable person, I'm going to go ahead and modify my build with your suggestions and run it through a gauntlet to see how it does. If it comes back with better numbers, I'll change it. What I expect from you regardless is to go ahead and supply testing data to back up claims like, "You have no idea how to build this deck," rather than just spouting theory at me, which I could do back all month and get neither of us anywhere. Deal?
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Primeval Titan doesn't always get there. He's very, very good, but he doesn't always win the game straight out. The concept of my build is to ramp to Eldrazi more so than Primeval Titan, but have no fear it drops that dude with regularity.
The thing is though, if your opponents drop magus of the moon or blood moon you're pretty much as good as gone.
Prophetic prism anyone?
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
GBGlissa, the Traitor
Modern
X Affinity
EDH
BUGTasigur, the Golden Fang (French 1v1)
Modern
RWG Burn
You're saying you're always gonna leave 3 mana free from T3 onwards? Considering that a good portion of your lands CIPT, this is very unlikely, especially early on. After they drop that hate on you the only way you would have mana is if you say played a wall of roots on T2... which you can't completely rely on.
What I'm saying is that, in the situation where say you're on the draw, tap out T2 without roots (not an unlikely situation), they drop magus / blood moon next turn and you can't do anything. You end up losing alot of virtual card advantage and your only lifeline is basically drawing an all is dust.
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
GBGlissa, the Traitor
Modern
X Affinity
EDH
BUGTasigur, the Golden Fang (French 1v1)
Modern
RWG Burn
My god... my deepest apologies, it's rather late and my brain isn't functioning as well as it should. You're quite right. In that case, it does nullify my case for the greater part, I still feel as though this deck has more trouble dealing with land hate than say Mono U 12 post, that being said obviously both decks have their cons and pros.
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
GBGlissa, the Traitor
Modern
X Affinity
EDH
BUGTasigur, the Golden Fang (French 1v1)
Modern
RWG Burn
CG
They don't ban things because of cost. 12-post is good, but it's not going to overwhelm the competition. The format is pretty evenly matched at the moment.
Well aware of that. I've written much about that very subject. I'm not even suggesting they're going to ban Vesuva... That would be monumentally stupid. Much more likely to just ban Glimmerpost. I'm suggesting that the rising price indicates that they're flying off the shelves at alarming rates considering the 400% jump in price in less than two weeks, meaning that everyone and their mothers are getting their 12-post decks ready for Modern.
Shocklands have doubled because they're staples in every Modern deck. Vesuva has quadrupled because it's the one 4-of auto-include rare in ONE deck, and it's still rising. I'm just thinking that this deck is going to be hugely represented in the months to come, and I doubt very much that its results will be disappointing.
CG
Just a heads-up, I won't be able to do any testing for a few days, because my computer is completely out of commission. I'm posting from my phone like usual. So far sample hands with the green accelerant version are mixed. It's not good at getting Cloudposts, and it feels slower. It is good at getting Titan, though, which kind balances out the slow pickup of posts.
As far as hate goes, I've found my mono-g 12 post survives fairly well. Primeval Titan alone allows us to ignore moon effects, and it allows us to accelerate out of targeted LD. In both lists I ran maxed out Primeval Titan and Green Sun's Zenith and never regretted it. The reliability you gain is indescribable. I may be using Primeval as a crutch, but it really doesn't seem to be working out too bad. I also recommend maindecking at least 3 Beast Within. It is the ultimate catchall and it is easily castable under a moon.
While I can appreciate the speed Amulet of Vigor gives when drawn as a singleton, I can't imagine running such a volatile topdeck. Drawing multiples is rather irritating. If you could run 3 that would be fine, but that defeats the purpose of running the card itself. You always want to find and play it early, so you have to run 4. However, if you end up running into a few you could really start to make a good hand bad. That issue alone leads me to believe its a janky card that doesn't belong in this deck.
Anyways, thats just my .02. Here's the list I've been testing lately:
4 Primeval Titan
4 Overgrown Battlement
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Terastodon
1 Sundering Titan
3 Wall of Roots
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Noncreature, Nonland
3 Reap and Sow
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Beast Within
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Karn Liberated
4 Explore
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
11 Forest
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Plow Under
1 Reap and Sow
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Oblivion Stone
3 Relic of Progenitus
Currently Playing:
T2 - Nada!
Casual - Sacrifice EngineBR
EDH: - Intet, the Dreamer RUG
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed BBB
Brion StoutarmWRW
That or everyone's waiting on baited breath to hear about my testing results, because seriously I appear to be the only one offering a contrarian list.
There really isn't much more to consider with this deck. You can only change so much. Perhaps splash white for Sacred Ground if you don't like LD?
If I did any splash it would be black for Thoughtseize and Memoricide. Combo is really the only MU that has given my list issues. LD short of Thoughts of Ruin shouldn't be able to stop this deck, so splashing for protection is pointless.
Currently Playing:
T2 - Nada!
Casual - Sacrifice EngineBR
EDH: - Intet, the Dreamer RUG
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed BBB
Brion StoutarmWRW
You should play a 4th Beast Within in your SB. And get some Nature's Claims in there to deal with Blood Moon.
www.moi-rai.com
CG
It looks like the most predominant post build on todays daily was a UG mix! I think 12post should just have a primer, and include U/G/Ug since they are all 3 hitting 4-0s right now.
Mono-U and Mono-G are really different decks, and the strategies you use against them are really different. It's similar to the difference between Stax and MUD in Vintage. Yeah, they're both Mishra's Workshop decks, but they play out very differently. Same goes for Mono G and Mono U 12post.
For those testing decks with Amulet of Vigor, have you tried Hall of the Bandit Lord as a singleton? Giving our Eldrazi haste seems really cool to me.