[Modern] Gx 12-Post
A brief summary of Modern Gx 12-Post Deckbuilding
v.1.2.0 – 9/10/2011
Sick of these dudes yet?
INTRO:
12-Post is nothing new. The deck essentially came into existence first as 8-Post when Timespiral’s Vesuva was first printed. The deck was originally a relatively mediocre ramp-control deck with very few truly effective uses for the plethora of colorless mana available. 8-Post became considerably stronger with the introduction of the colorless Eldrazi fatties, three in particular: Emrakul, Ulamog and Kozilek. Often, these cards proved to be auto-scoopers against most decks because of their built-in utility (timewalk, removal, card advantage), their massive bodies, and, perhaps most importantly, Annihilator.
And then came Glimmerpost. I don’t think that players really understood the effectiveness of this card initially. It seemed kinda “meh.” But, as it turns out, it’s much more than we expected. It ramps your posts, doesn’t ETB tapped, and gains you a considerable amount of life, and this effect cannot be countered. Now we have 12 loci, crazy beaters, and formidable lifegain. So begins 12-Post.
Tournament results have indicated that this deck is best splashed with Red for Through the Breach, as the only top 8 list at PT Philly was a Breach build, and the bulk of the 18+ point decklists also ran it.
The inevitability of this deck is best described as daunting and omnipresent, and it handily brushes off control. While not a true combo deck, it does feel and play like a combo deck in that its end-game is so explosive that it's essentially an instant win. A turn 3 or 4 unanswered Titan or Breach is usually game over.
The core of the manabase is the namesake of the deck. 8 loci + Vesuva = 12-Post. Vesuva, of course, can copy either of the loci, it can copy basics if needed, it can copy opponents' Legendaries for removal (important in the mirror), it can copy Ghost Quarters for additional removal. Well, it can copy any land on the battlefield. Period.
For the most part you'll be copying Cloudposts with it for obvious reasons. If the game stretches on a bit, you may find yourself copying Glimmerposts with it when you run out. Important note: Vesuva can avoid Moon effects if you select one of your Forests as it enters the battlefield. It's true.
Most mono-G decklists run 9-12 Forests and a singleton Dryad Arbor. Horizon Canopy appears in a number of decklists, as well, for its "oh crap I need to draw" utility. Dryad Arbor's primary purpose, frankly, is to be tutored by Green Sun's Zenith on turn 1 for cheap ramp and to serve as an emergency blocker.
RG decklists run Stomping Groun, fetches, and Grove of the Burnwillows, which, of course, has proven success with Punishing Fire... though the only decklists I've seen with it don't run Punishing Fire.. Presumably, this is because it does not ETBT, and if you're using it for R, you've probably won. See Through the Breach.
Here is the most common creature/artifact ramp you'll find in these lists. Not all decks run walls right now, but they are creeping into more and more lists. Overgrown Battlement along with other mana-producing walls can ramp you very, very quickly in situations where you can't use your posts (Moon effects, Land-Destruction), and it provides you with blockers against aggro decks. Wall of Roots is vastly superior to Vine Trellis because it doesn't tap, and it can produce mana the turn it enters the battlefield.
Oracle and Magus are often found as singletons. They don't produce mana, per se, but they belong in this section because their ultimate purpose is to ramp like a champ.
Amulet of Vigor has been promoted to maindeck-worthy with recent Daily results coming in. It lets your posts ETB untapped, and that can mean access to a boatload of additional mana a turn faster than without it. The effect stacks in a such a way that with 2+ on the battlefield, each time a permanent enters the battlefield tapped it can be untapped once when the first trigger resolves, and then untapped again when the second trigger resolves, and so on. Say you drop a Titan, and decide to pull two cloudposts, giving you a total of 4 on the battlefield. You can untap them immediately in response to the first trigger, tap them for 8, untap them in response to the second trigger, and tap them again for 8 more. You're now floating 16 mana from nothing but dropping a Titan and abusing ETB triggers. Amazing? This can mean a turn 3 or turn 4 Emrakul.
Cards to consider:
Everflowing Chalice: Not much testing has been done with this card in this build, but it has some of the right ingredients. Magus of the Vineyard: Same as above, but probably ramps the exact decks you don't want to ramp (Zoo and Mirror). Ghost Quarter: Probably the best land-based LD in Modern, and it works wonders in the mirror.
G-Post has access to all of the relevant land and creature tutors for 12-post builds. Because this list is somewhat long, I'll break it down by card.
Expedition Map: Invaluable tutor. It's colorless, so you can pull it with stirrings if you need to. It costs 1, so you can drop it t1 if you need to (very unlikely to be countered, especially with Mental Misstep banned.) Pulls any land, which is a recurring theme among the tutors we use in this deck.
Ancient Stirrings: I've never whiffed with this card. Never. It can pull land, it can pull artifacts, it can pull Eldrazi, it costs 1. It's one of the most efficient tutors ever printed, and it was designed for this deck. Literally.
Green Sun's Zenith: This card has one primary purpose: gives you additional copies of Primeval Titan. In the event that you draw a good starting hand with both a Titan and a Zenith, you can pull a turn 1 Dryad Arbor, or, if you really have no other use for it (very rarely the case), you can pull anything green that you just kinda want. Walls, Oracle, Eternal Witness, you name it. The point is that it's never a dead draw. Even if you have a titan on the board, why not grab another one? I've found that about half the time, it's actually easier to cast Titan with Zenith than to hardcast him because of G in its mana cost as opposed to GG.
Sylvan Scrying: Probably the weakest tutor, but its purpose is self-evident. It's a relatively cheap tutor that can pull any land in your deck.
Scapeshift: This card is becoming less and less common in Mono-G builds as it's very rarely necessary. Nevertheless, in a pinch this card can pull all of your Cloudposts by itself. Or any of your lands, for that matter. It can singlehandedly win the game for you.
Reap and Sow: Tutors any land straight to the battlefield. If that's not good enough, it can also blow up any of your opponents' lands, making it outstanding in the mirror. If that's not enough, it can do both of those things at the same time. Sold?
Eye of Ugin: Grabs your Eldrazi fatties and makes them cheaper. The concept is simple, but the importance of this card should not be understated. You will frequently find yourself pulling this with tutors and Titans to secure your victory.
Tooth and Nail: Shows up in a good deal of 12-Post lists as a cheap way to grab two of your fatties. The only problem with this card is that it does not trigger your Eldrazi's "cast" abilities. It is always better to hardcast them, so this card should be used sparingly and intelligently. In many ways, decks running this card are much closer to combo, and often work around off-color creatures (I'm looking at you, Urabrask). Half the time, 9 mana will just let you hardcast an Ulamog or Kozilek, anyway, and reap the benefits. Additionally, waiting an extra turn (if that) to hardcast your Emrakul means 0 chance of disruption. Less fragile = more consistent.
Let's consider the following scenario. It's my pre-combat main phase. I have 2 cloudposts, 2 forests, 2 glimmerposts, and a Titan on my board (fairly typical around this point in the game, say turn 4-5.) I can pay 9 and TaN, or... I can attack, grab two more posts, and hardcast Emrakul during my 2nd main phase.
Summoner's Pact: Even more copies of Primeval Titan! Hooray!
Primal Command: Another excellent tutor with additional utility.
Explore: This card seems to fit best under Utility. It draws, and it ramps. Because it draws a card, it does not net any card disadvantage, even if you can't play a land. I am always happy to see this card in my opening hand.
Eternal Witness: Important card ends up in graveyard, important card goes back to hand. Flexible card with many applications.
Firespout: If you're running red, outstanding board sweep against those pesky little aggro decks like Zoo, Merfolk, Elves and Affinity.
Beast Within: A green Vindicate whose downside is virtually irrelevant to this list. We use this card to destroy Blood Moon and anything else that is a major threat to our strategy or to our survival.
All is Dust: One of our two major board sweeps. This card is highly effective against aggro (not affinity, however), if a little slow. Because it forces players to sacrifice permanents rather than destroying them, it handles indestructible permanents or permanents that can regenerate.
Oblivion Stone: Enters the battlefield early since it costs 3 to cast, and it can often be used the next turn. Not only does that make it faster than All is Dust, but it also dodges Gaddock Teeg and hoses Affinity, where Dust does not. Additionally, it gives you the option to protect your permanents at the cost of waiting a turn to use it. To be honest, I almost never even use the fate counters. Rarely necessary. The drawbacks to this card include: it does not remove indestructible permanents or permanents that can regenerate, and it is, itself, a permanent, making it vulnerable to Qasali Pridemage, Beast Within, Oblivion Ring, etc.
Chalice of the Void: Most often a sideboard card, but it has found its way into maindecks on occasion. This card single-handedly destroys a number of Zoo lists, and it can render combo decks useless if unanswered. For example, let's say we're up against a boom/bust list with Bloodbraid Elf. Pay 4, put 2 counters on it, done. Bust is countered (split cards have 2 cmc's in all zones). Along with their Tarmogoyfs, their Qasali Pridemages, their Lightning Helix, etc. The important thing is to set it up in such a way that it renders the deck mostly or completely useless. Always want to target the win con, not necessarily the other combo pieces in case they can simply hardcast the wincon later.
Ratchet Bomb: I have seen this card in a couple of lists, but I'm still not 100% sure why. I suppose it is fairly effective against affinity as a sweeper, and potentially Zoo. I can see this being used if you're facing really, really fast aggro decks because it goes off much faster than O-stone.
Through the Breach: Win-con with expedited shipping. Improves upon the best part of Tooth and Nail, and requires less ramp. Battles Moon effects like a champ, for obvious reasons. Instant-speed creature-dropping means plenty of shenanigans like avoiding EOT triggers, etc. Puts an Emrakul onto the battlefield much earlier than without it, in most cases, and it can drop a Titan EOT to grab 2 lands that'll be untapped immediately. Plethora of uses.
Cards to consider:
Culling Scales: Thank Pein for pointing out this beauty. Will be doing some testing with it soon. Elvish Piper: Drops fatties at instant-speed, but, unlike Through the Breach, it's on a fragile 1/1 body.
I won't spend too much time explaining why these are the fatties of choice for this deck. They're all going to end the game, with the occasional exception of Wurmcoil Engine, and they each have tremendous utility. Wurmcoil Engine, while the smallest body, is invaluable against aggro. He comes out very quickly, he heals you, he stops their dudes in their tracks, and he recurs.
Primeval Titan is the single most important card in the deck. Once you can put a Titan onto the battlefield unanswered, you are winning (except potentially in the mirror, where you're racing). He's big, and he grabs tons of land. In a deck that focuses entirely on ramp, this is about the best thing you could possibly hope for. And because we're running an essentially mono-G manabase, you're easily going to have him as early as turn 3 or turn 4 most games. Expect him to be the target of much hate, so running a full playset is imperative, and many players run at least one Eternal Witness for recursion.
The function of your Titan(s) will depend greatly on the matchup. Against super speedy aggro decks, you will often find yourself below 10 life when he drops, in which case the right play is often to grab 2 Glimmerpost initially to gain 8-12 life right off the bat. Against control or combo, it might be better to go ahead and grab your Eye and a Cloudpost, or 2 cloudpost. It's situational, but usually just common sense. Even if he doesn't stick around for a full turn, he's still probably winning the game for you. The card-advantage he just provided you is already devastating.
It's important to note that Primeval Titan isn't just a combo piece, he's also capable of winning the game himself just by swinging for 6 each turn. In most games, however, the ramp he provides will allow an Emrakul next turn, anyway.
Affinity: Hands-down the toughest match-up because of its speed and consistency. This is the fastest aggro deck in the format, since most Zoo lists have gone midrange, and it can handily race 12-post 60%-70% of the time. I have had most success against this deck running walls and Oblivion Stone/Ratchet Bomb/Firespout. Typically a successful board sweep shuts down Affinity completely, because they go into topdeck mode around turn 3 (unless they've managed to pull multiple Thoughtcasts). If you can survive until around turn 4, you will probably win this match. Easier said than done.
Storm: This match, along with Cascade and KikiTwin, is almost completely devoid of interaction. It's a rough matchup if you're not running Through the Breach, and even when you are it's still going to be somewhere around 50/50. Sticking with a mono-G decklist will mean you're not going to drop a win-con as fast, but in some cases you can race to a Titan faster. If you can pull off substantial lifegain before the combo goes off, you could buy yourself some time here. Overall, this matchup is pretty fair.
Kiki/Twin: Again, a race devoid of interaction. This matchup is slightly less rough, because it actually presents you with combo pieces in the form of permanents you can nuke. Use your Beast Withins to maximum effect here with either a mana-denial strategy or by targeting the obvious combo pieces as they come out. Chalice of the Void is not a bad play here, either. 3 counters means no mite or exarch if it sticks. Again, Breach builds have a slightly better matchup, here.
Melira/Birthing Pod: This combo runs a ton of cogs. As such, you'd think it would be easy to disrupt, but, unfortunately, it packs a ton of redundancy and utility of its own, including loads of discard. Don't expect to keep a breach or Titan in your hand very long. Discard seems to be a great reason to run Eternal Witness. Something I've done against this deck (along with Infect) is sideboarded Melira, herself. I ran her in SB for quite some time to great effect. It's additional removal for 2, and it can frequently stall 1-2 turns. Chalice of the Void, again, sees some success with either 1 or 2 counters on it. This deck, like kikitwin, is also somewhat disruptable with your instant-speed removal in Beast Within. Good targets are Melira, Viscera Seer, Birthing Pod, and if it looks like they might be light on mana, land is always always a good target (plus we frequently maindeck Reap and Sow). My experience against this deck has been something around 50%-60% success.
Infect/Shoal: Yikes, where do I begin with this one? This is the ultimate glass-cannon combo in the format. Frankly, you win or you don't against this deck. And usually you don't. This is a situation where I'd really love some countermagic, because 12-post feels painfully helpless here. Best advice is blow up any creature he drops and blow up Inkmoth Nexus if you can. Sideboarding in Melira is pretty outstanding in this matchup, so game 2 will probably see slightly more success. Gaddock Teeg absolutely wrecks this deck as well.
Zoo: One of our most favorable matchups, generally. Boom//Bust Zoo can be rough, but this is precisely why we run walls. Charming Zoo? Generally even less difficult. Walls and glimmerpost lifegain absolutely trash Zoo about 70% of the time. Usually I don't even need to SB against any Zoo variant. There is a fine line between Aggro that races 12-post, and aggro that misses the mark by 1 or 2 turns. Zoo is the latter, here.
10 decklists managed to grab 18+ points at PT Philly, but the sample size was absolutely huge. It seems that the meta was prepared to see a ton of 12-post variants, so the deck's overall success rate was a weak ~20%. Nevertheless, Jesse Hampton's BreachPost (above) made it to the top 8.
Check out the lists/discussions in the Mono U 12 post primer, might give you some insight/ideas.
I'm really seeing that the green post decks seem to be more combo-like, having little or no disruption and going for a more consistent earlier kill. I guess only time and tournaments will tell for sure.
Check out the lists/discussions in the Mono U 12 post primer, might give you some insight/ideas.
I'm really seeing that the green post decks seem to be more combo-like, having little or no disruption and going for a more consistent earlier kill. I guess only time and tournaments will tell for sure.
And I'M finding that their Posts are just making my deck faster. As for disruption, good lord the life gain from Glimmerpost is so underestimated.
I just finished playtesting AGAINST a hypergen deck, and the results were:
hypergenesis 4
12-post (mine) 1
ugh
Sad thing is that you'd think if any deck had a chance against it, it'd be 12-post. Only reason I won the 1 game was because I was holding emrakul, primeval, and ulamog when it triggered. Total luck. That being said, I was also holding an All is Dust. Protip to Hypergen players: more colorless creatures.
See that's what I'm afraid of for playing with a mono G build, no disruption. I think you're going to need some of some type to battle combo decks.
IMO running 4 counterspells as the blue version does isn't enough disruption either. Both decks get owned by hypergen just like 95% of the meta does.
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Yeah, in general 12-post feels consistent enough to win a good deal of the time without disruption. It boils down to a race every game. The inevitability of 12-post makes people scramble to disrupt it (or beat the clock) while not properly setting up their own boards and just eventually losing, anyway.
How does this deck deal with Moon Effects? If it gets popular it seems like it would have a lot of trouble with Moon Effects at least for game 1.
Yeah, game 1 is likely to be a loss if they get moon out fast enough. But even then, All is Dust'll kill it (and/or magus), and the deck has no problem getting 7 lands on the battlefield relatively quickly. Otherwise, plenty of cheap enchantment hate in green to sideboard.
edit: Beast Within is the preferred answer to Moon.
Either way, I like the list. No Scapeshift is interesting, and so is Staff of Domination (better in combo elves), but definitely solid.
Rofl, no clue how that happened, I'm pretty out of it. But yeah, I think 4 Firespout should be added to the board in addition to the 4 Krosan Grip in order to deal with both Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon. (Not to mention Firespout is relevant in like a billion other matchups anyways) Would definitely take out the two sideboarded AiD for those and something else.
But like I mentioned in my first post, if Hypergenesis is not banned I will just be playing that along with everyone else.
This version of the deck almost seems like the modern version of eldrazi green. Anybody think that quicksilver amulet might be a solid edition as well??
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My Friend built this deck with Expedition maps and the Urza Tron Lands...it's ridiculous. He was getting turn 3 Karn's or All is Dust pretty consistantly. The beauty of this deck is that the cards that the opponent wants to deal with..are lands. Discard effects don't work well on Eldrazi..counterspells are only a delay (unless it's Emarkul..in which case they don't work). I love the idea of Ancient Stirrings though.
I added the quicksilver amulets in there just in case I am not ramping up fast enough but I have a Primeval Titan or Eldrazi in hand opening hand and I want to cheat it in.
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Like I said, it's more of a traditional T/N build, but has good tools against pretty much any other kind of matchup. Mephidross + Trisk might become maindeck over Iona + Servant since those don't hit colorless that mono-U 12 post packs. So far, very consistent, and the little dudes really help in the zoo matchups chump blocking till you can assemble big mana business.
I've played this deck in a tournament and probably will continue to do so. The lists I see here are incredibly dependent on tutor effects. I don't see how Tooth and Nail is ever better than just running more Eldrazi. One Eldrazi probably wins you the game. Keep one Eye of Ugin, but don't depend on it, and slow roll it so Ghost Quarter doesn't ruin your day. I also don't like Summoning Trap because it is the only Instant in the deck besides Beast Within. Nothing sucks more than slow rolling a Trap to have combat tricks... And whiffing. It happens. And I'd rather play something with board presence in that scenario.
I don't think you need Green Sun because the deck doesn't depend on Titan. Rather, it shouldn't. It should depend on Eldrazi. Just run eight or so Eldrazi, your Titans, a Wurmcoil Engine or two, and your basic land tutor suite (Explore, Scrying, Maps, Ancient Stirrings), and you should be good.
(The incoming argument is purely subjective opinion on my part!)
Where one resolved eldrazi sometimes wins the game, a resolved tooth and nail should win every game since lock downs and infinite combos at instant speed can come down. If it doesn't, you have done something wrong.
Ulamog and Kozilek are vulnerable to instant speed removal and Emrakul is vulnerable to sacrificing effects (cruel edict, barter in blood, warren weirding) so there is a chance (albeit a slight one) that your opponent can recover from those. A resolved tooth and nail should be game over every time if you have the proper tools for each type of match up.
There are definitely merits to each strategy, I personally prefer the flexibility and toolboxing of a tooth and nail build. Eldrazi just seem like a 'win more' kind of effect, where you could have cast something sooner and probably won just as handily. Cheating stuff into play is always more fun to me
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Gx 12-Post
A brief summary of Modern Gx 12-Post Deckbuilding
v.1.2.0 – 9/10/2011
Sick of these dudes yet?
INTRO:
12-Post is nothing new. The deck essentially came into existence first as 8-Post when Timespiral’s Vesuva was first printed. The deck was originally a relatively mediocre ramp-control deck with very few truly effective uses for the plethora of colorless mana available. 8-Post became considerably stronger with the introduction of the colorless Eldrazi fatties, three in particular: Emrakul, Ulamog and Kozilek. Often, these cards proved to be auto-scoopers against most decks because of their built-in utility (timewalk, removal, card advantage), their massive bodies, and, perhaps most importantly, Annihilator.
And then came Glimmerpost. I don’t think that players really understood the effectiveness of this card initially. It seemed kinda “meh.” But, as it turns out, it’s much more than we expected. It ramps your posts, doesn’t ETB tapped, and gains you a considerable amount of life, and this effect cannot be countered. Now we have 12 loci, crazy beaters, and formidable lifegain. So begins 12-Post.
But why G? Three huge reasons: Primeval Titan, speed, consistency. Did I mention Primeval Titan?
Tournament results have indicated that this deck is best splashed with Red for Through the Breach, as the only top 8 list at PT Philly was a Breach build, and the bulk of the 18+ point decklists also ran it.
The inevitability of this deck is best described as daunting and omnipresent, and it handily brushes off control. While not a true combo deck, it does feel and play like a combo deck in that its end-game is so explosive that it's essentially an instant win. A turn 3 or 4 unanswered Titan or Breach is usually game over.
THE CARDS:
1 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
The core of the manabase is the namesake of the deck. 8 loci + Vesuva = 12-Post. Vesuva, of course, can copy either of the loci, it can copy basics if needed, it can copy opponents' Legendaries for removal (important in the mirror), it can copy Ghost Quarters for additional removal. Well, it can copy any land on the battlefield. Period.
For the most part you'll be copying Cloudposts with it for obvious reasons. If the game stretches on a bit, you may find yourself copying Glimmerposts with it when you run out. Important note: Vesuva can avoid Moon effects if you select one of your Forests as it enters the battlefield. It's true.
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Grove of the Burnwillos
1 Stomping Ground
Most mono-G decklists run 9-12 Forests and a singleton Dryad Arbor. Horizon Canopy appears in a number of decklists, as well, for its "oh crap I need to draw" utility. Dryad Arbor's primary purpose, frankly, is to be tutored by Green Sun's Zenith on turn 1 for cheap ramp and to serve as an emergency blocker.
RG decklists run Stomping Groun, fetches, and Grove of the Burnwillows, which, of course, has proven success with Punishing Fire... though the only decklists I've seen with it don't run Punishing Fire.. Presumably, this is because it does not ETBT, and if you're using it for R, you've probably won. See Through the Breach.
1 Overgrown Battlement
1 Vine Trellis
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Magus of the Candelabra
1 Amulet of Vigor
1 Gruul Signet
Here is the most common creature/artifact ramp you'll find in these lists. Not all decks run walls right now, but they are creeping into more and more lists. Overgrown Battlement along with other mana-producing walls can ramp you very, very quickly in situations where you can't use your posts (Moon effects, Land-Destruction), and it provides you with blockers against aggro decks. Wall of Roots is vastly superior to Vine Trellis because it doesn't tap, and it can produce mana the turn it enters the battlefield.
Oracle and Magus are often found as singletons. They don't produce mana, per se, but they belong in this section because their ultimate purpose is to ramp like a champ.
Amulet of Vigor has been promoted to maindeck-worthy with recent Daily results coming in. It lets your posts ETB untapped, and that can mean access to a boatload of additional mana a turn faster than without it. The effect stacks in a such a way that with 2+ on the battlefield, each time a permanent enters the battlefield tapped it can be untapped once when the first trigger resolves, and then untapped again when the second trigger resolves, and so on. Say you drop a Titan, and decide to pull two cloudposts, giving you a total of 4 on the battlefield. You can untap them immediately in response to the first trigger, tap them for 8, untap them in response to the second trigger, and tap them again for 8 more. You're now floating 16 mana from nothing but dropping a Titan and abusing ETB triggers. Amazing? This can mean a turn 3 or turn 4 Emrakul.
Cards to consider:
Everflowing Chalice: Not much testing has been done with this card in this build, but it has some of the right ingredients.
Magus of the Vineyard: Same as above, but probably ramps the exact decks you don't want to ramp (Zoo and Mirror).
Ghost Quarter: Probably the best land-based LD in Modern, and it works wonders in the mirror.
1 Ancient Stirrings
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Scapeshift
1 Reap and Sow
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Primal Command
G-Post has access to all of the relevant land and creature tutors for 12-post builds. Because this list is somewhat long, I'll break it down by card.
Expedition Map: Invaluable tutor. It's colorless, so you can pull it with stirrings if you need to. It costs 1, so you can drop it t1 if you need to (very unlikely to be countered, especially with Mental Misstep banned.) Pulls any land, which is a recurring theme among the tutors we use in this deck.
Ancient Stirrings: I've never whiffed with this card. Never. It can pull land, it can pull artifacts, it can pull Eldrazi, it costs 1. It's one of the most efficient tutors ever printed, and it was designed for this deck. Literally.
Green Sun's Zenith: This card has one primary purpose: gives you additional copies of Primeval Titan. In the event that you draw a good starting hand with both a Titan and a Zenith, you can pull a turn 1 Dryad Arbor, or, if you really have no other use for it (very rarely the case), you can pull anything green that you just kinda want. Walls, Oracle, Eternal Witness, you name it. The point is that it's never a dead draw. Even if you have a titan on the board, why not grab another one? I've found that about half the time, it's actually easier to cast Titan with Zenith than to hardcast him because of G in its mana cost as opposed to GG.
Sylvan Scrying: Probably the weakest tutor, but its purpose is self-evident. It's a relatively cheap tutor that can pull any land in your deck.
Scapeshift: This card is becoming less and less common in Mono-G builds as it's very rarely necessary. Nevertheless, in a pinch this card can pull all of your Cloudposts by itself. Or any of your lands, for that matter. It can singlehandedly win the game for you.
Reap and Sow: Tutors any land straight to the battlefield. If that's not good enough, it can also blow up any of your opponents' lands, making it outstanding in the mirror. If that's not enough, it can do both of those things at the same time. Sold?
Eye of Ugin: Grabs your Eldrazi fatties and makes them cheaper. The concept is simple, but the importance of this card should not be understated. You will frequently find yourself pulling this with tutors and Titans to secure your victory.
Tooth and Nail: Shows up in a good deal of 12-Post lists as a cheap way to grab two of your fatties. The only problem with this card is that it does not trigger your Eldrazi's "cast" abilities. It is always better to hardcast them, so this card should be used sparingly and intelligently. In many ways, decks running this card are much closer to combo, and often work around off-color creatures (I'm looking at you, Urabrask). Half the time, 9 mana will just let you hardcast an Ulamog or Kozilek, anyway, and reap the benefits. Additionally, waiting an extra turn (if that) to hardcast your Emrakul means 0 chance of disruption. Less fragile = more consistent.
Let's consider the following scenario. It's my pre-combat main phase. I have 2 cloudposts, 2 forests, 2 glimmerposts, and a Titan on my board (fairly typical around this point in the game, say turn 4-5.) I can pay 9 and TaN, or... I can attack, grab two more posts, and hardcast Emrakul during my 2nd main phase.
Summoner's Pact: Even more copies of Primeval Titan! Hooray!
Primal Command: Another excellent tutor with additional utility.
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Firespout
1 Beast Within
1 All is Dust
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Through the Breach
Explore: This card seems to fit best under Utility. It draws, and it ramps. Because it draws a card, it does not net any card disadvantage, even if you can't play a land. I am always happy to see this card in my opening hand.
Sakura-Tribe Elder: Chump-blocker who fetches basics. Derp.
Eternal Witness: Important card ends up in graveyard, important card goes back to hand. Flexible card with many applications.
Firespout: If you're running red, outstanding board sweep against those pesky little aggro decks like Zoo, Merfolk, Elves and Affinity.
Beast Within: A green Vindicate whose downside is virtually irrelevant to this list. We use this card to destroy Blood Moon and anything else that is a major threat to our strategy or to our survival.
All is Dust: One of our two major board sweeps. This card is highly effective against aggro (not affinity, however), if a little slow. Because it forces players to sacrifice permanents rather than destroying them, it handles indestructible permanents or permanents that can regenerate.
Oblivion Stone: Enters the battlefield early since it costs 3 to cast, and it can often be used the next turn. Not only does that make it faster than All is Dust, but it also dodges Gaddock Teeg and hoses Affinity, where Dust does not. Additionally, it gives you the option to protect your permanents at the cost of waiting a turn to use it. To be honest, I almost never even use the fate counters. Rarely necessary. The drawbacks to this card include: it does not remove indestructible permanents or permanents that can regenerate, and it is, itself, a permanent, making it vulnerable to Qasali Pridemage, Beast Within, Oblivion Ring, etc.
Chalice of the Void: Most often a sideboard card, but it has found its way into maindecks on occasion. This card single-handedly destroys a number of Zoo lists, and it can render combo decks useless if unanswered. For example, let's say we're up against a boom/bust list with Bloodbraid Elf. Pay 4, put 2 counters on it, done. Bust is countered (split cards have 2 cmc's in all zones). Along with their Tarmogoyfs, their Qasali Pridemages, their Lightning Helix, etc. The important thing is to set it up in such a way that it renders the deck mostly or completely useless. Always want to target the win con, not necessarily the other combo pieces in case they can simply hardcast the wincon later.
Ratchet Bomb: I have seen this card in a couple of lists, but I'm still not 100% sure why. I suppose it is fairly effective against affinity as a sweeper, and potentially Zoo. I can see this being used if you're facing really, really fast aggro decks because it goes off much faster than O-stone.
Through the Breach: Win-con with expedited shipping. Improves upon the best part of Tooth and Nail, and requires less ramp. Battles Moon effects like a champ, for obvious reasons. Instant-speed creature-dropping means plenty of shenanigans like avoiding EOT triggers, etc. Puts an Emrakul onto the battlefield much earlier than without it, in most cases, and it can drop a Titan EOT to grab 2 lands that'll be untapped immediately. Plethora of uses.
Cards to consider:
Culling Scales: Thank Pein for pointing out this beauty. Will be doing some testing with it soon.
Elvish Piper: Drops fatties at instant-speed, but, unlike Through the Breach, it's on a fragile 1/1 body.
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Terastodon
I won't spend too much time explaining why these are the fatties of choice for this deck. They're all going to end the game, with the occasional exception of Wurmcoil Engine, and they each have tremendous utility. Wurmcoil Engine, while the smallest body, is invaluable against aggro. He comes out very quickly, he heals you, he stops their dudes in their tracks, and he recurs.
Primeval Titan is the single most important card in the deck. Once you can put a Titan onto the battlefield unanswered, you are winning (except potentially in the mirror, where you're racing). He's big, and he grabs tons of land. In a deck that focuses entirely on ramp, this is about the best thing you could possibly hope for. And because we're running an essentially mono-G manabase, you're easily going to have him as early as turn 3 or turn 4 most games. Expect him to be the target of much hate, so running a full playset is imperative, and many players run at least one Eternal Witness for recursion.
The function of your Titan(s) will depend greatly on the matchup. Against super speedy aggro decks, you will often find yourself below 10 life when he drops, in which case the right play is often to grab 2 Glimmerpost initially to gain 8-12 life right off the bat. Against control or combo, it might be better to go ahead and grab your Eye and a Cloudpost, or 2 cloudpost. It's situational, but usually just common sense. Even if he doesn't stick around for a full turn, he's still probably winning the game for you. The card-advantage he just provided you is already devastating.
It's important to note that Primeval Titan isn't just a combo piece, he's also capable of winning the game himself just by swinging for 6 each turn. In most games, however, the ramp he provides will allow an Emrakul next turn, anyway.
PROVEN DECKS:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
4 Vesuva
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Primeval Titan
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Terastodon
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Wall of Roots
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Gruul Signet
4 Through the Breach
1 Brooding Saurian
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
3 Firespout
3 Punishing Fire
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Seal of Primordium
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
11 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Vesuva
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Primeval Titan
1 Terastodon
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Wall of Roots
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Beast Within
3 Expedition Map
4 Explore
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Primal Command
1 Reap and Sow
1 Creeping Corrosion
4 Damping Matrix
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Nature's Claim
2 Oblivion Stone
3 Plow Under
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
6 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
4 Vesuva
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Amulet of Vigor
2 Ancient Stirrings
2 Beast Within
4 Explore
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Scapeshift
2 Beast Within
3 Firespout
3 Plow Under
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Torpor Orb
2 Trinisphere
Affinity: Hands-down the toughest match-up because of its speed and consistency. This is the fastest aggro deck in the format, since most Zoo lists have gone midrange, and it can handily race 12-post 60%-70% of the time. I have had most success against this deck running walls and Oblivion Stone/Ratchet Bomb/Firespout. Typically a successful board sweep shuts down Affinity completely, because they go into topdeck mode around turn 3 (unless they've managed to pull multiple Thoughtcasts). If you can survive until around turn 4, you will probably win this match. Easier said than done.
Storm: This match, along with Cascade and KikiTwin, is almost completely devoid of interaction. It's a rough matchup if you're not running Through the Breach, and even when you are it's still going to be somewhere around 50/50. Sticking with a mono-G decklist will mean you're not going to drop a win-con as fast, but in some cases you can race to a Titan faster. If you can pull off substantial lifegain before the combo goes off, you could buy yourself some time here. Overall, this matchup is pretty fair.
Kiki/Twin: Again, a race devoid of interaction. This matchup is slightly less rough, because it actually presents you with combo pieces in the form of permanents you can nuke. Use your Beast Withins to maximum effect here with either a mana-denial strategy or by targeting the obvious combo pieces as they come out. Chalice of the Void is not a bad play here, either. 3 counters means no mite or exarch if it sticks. Again, Breach builds have a slightly better matchup, here.
Melira/Birthing Pod: This combo runs a ton of cogs. As such, you'd think it would be easy to disrupt, but, unfortunately, it packs a ton of redundancy and utility of its own, including loads of discard. Don't expect to keep a breach or Titan in your hand very long. Discard seems to be a great reason to run Eternal Witness. Something I've done against this deck (along with Infect) is sideboarded Melira, herself. I ran her in SB for quite some time to great effect. It's additional removal for 2, and it can frequently stall 1-2 turns. Chalice of the Void, again, sees some success with either 1 or 2 counters on it. This deck, like kikitwin, is also somewhat disruptable with your instant-speed removal in Beast Within. Good targets are Melira, Viscera Seer, Birthing Pod, and if it looks like they might be light on mana, land is always always a good target (plus we frequently maindeck Reap and Sow). My experience against this deck has been something around 50%-60% success.
Infect/Shoal: Yikes, where do I begin with this one? This is the ultimate glass-cannon combo in the format. Frankly, you win or you don't against this deck. And usually you don't. This is a situation where I'd really love some countermagic, because 12-post feels painfully helpless here. Best advice is blow up any creature he drops and blow up Inkmoth Nexus if you can. Sideboarding in Melira is pretty outstanding in this matchup, so game 2 will probably see slightly more success. Gaddock Teeg absolutely wrecks this deck as well.
Zoo: One of our most favorable matchups, generally. Boom//Bust Zoo can be rough, but this is precisely why we run walls. Charming Zoo? Generally even less difficult. Walls and glimmerpost lifegain absolutely trash Zoo about 70% of the time. Usually I don't even need to SB against any Zoo variant. There is a fine line between Aggro that races 12-post, and aggro that misses the mark by 1 or 2 turns. Zoo is the latter, here.
10 decklists managed to grab 18+ points at PT Philly, but the sample size was absolutely huge. It seems that the meta was prepared to see a ton of 12-post variants, so the deck's overall success rate was a weak ~20%. Nevertheless, Jesse Hampton's BreachPost (above) made it to the top 8.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptphi11/topmoderndecks
More coming soon...
Thanks!
CG
I'm really seeing that the green post decks seem to be more combo-like, having little or no disruption and going for a more consistent earlier kill. I guess only time and tournaments will tell for sure.
And I'M finding that their Posts are just making my deck faster. As for disruption, good lord the life gain from Glimmerpost is so underestimated.
CG
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Explore
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Tooth and Nail
2 All Is Dust
1 Staff of Domination
Enchantments
4 Rites of Flourishing
Land
12 Forest
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Dryad Arbor
2 All Is Dust
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Krosan Grip
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dosan, the Falling Leaf
1 Bojuka Bog
I just finished playtesting AGAINST a hypergen deck, and the results were:
hypergenesis 4
12-post (mine) 1
ugh
Sad thing is that you'd think if any deck had a chance against it, it'd be 12-post. Only reason I won the 1 game was because I was holding emrakul, primeval, and ulamog when it triggered. Total luck. That being said, I was also holding an All is Dust. Protip to Hypergen players: more colorless creatures.
outdated
CG
Also, Artificer Andy, it's no wonder your build is doing well, you're running 8 Rites of Flourishing!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
That's a typo, if you'll count the deck you'll notice there's 64 cards. Fixed.
Yeah, but now you're running 8 GSZ.
Either way, I like the list. No Scapeshift is interesting, and so is Staff of Domination (better in combo elves), but definitely solid.
CG
IMO running 4 counterspells as the blue version does isn't enough disruption either. Both decks get owned by hypergen just like 95% of the meta does.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
CG
Yeah, game 1 is likely to be a loss if they get moon out fast enough. But even then, All is Dust'll kill it (and/or magus), and the deck has no problem getting 7 lands on the battlefield relatively quickly. Otherwise, plenty of cheap enchantment hate in green to sideboard.edit: Beast Within is the preferred answer to Moon.
CG
Rofl, no clue how that happened, I'm pretty out of it. But yeah, I think 4 Firespout should be added to the board in addition to the 4 Krosan Grip in order to deal with both Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon. (Not to mention Firespout is relevant in like a billion other matchups anyways) Would definitely take out the two sideboarded AiD for those and something else.
But like I mentioned in my first post, if Hypergenesis is not banned I will just be playing that along with everyone else.
I like this build, but what about Time of Need instead of Rites of Flourising to take advantage of Boseiju?
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
I think Solemn Simulacrum is going to find his way into that slot, actually. Rites is just too risky to run, Time of Need is unnecessary.
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Spells (26)
4 Explore
4 Tooth and Nail
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 All is Dust
2 Quicksliver Amulet
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Eye of Ugin
10 Forest
4 Chalice of the void
4 Krosan Grip
3 Dosan The Fallen Leaf
2 Fog
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Genesis Wave
I added the quicksilver amulets in there just in case I am not ramping up fast enough but I have a Primeval Titan or Eldrazi in hand opening hand and I want to cheat it in.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Eternal Witness
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Sundering Titan
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
1 Iona, shield of emeria
1 Painter's Servant
Spells
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Reap and Sow
4 Beast Within
4 Tooth and Nail
2 Plow Under
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
10 Forests
2 Plow Under
3 All is Dust
1 Mephidross Vampire
1 Triskelion
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 rachet bomb
4 ???
Like I said, it's more of a traditional T/N build, but has good tools against pretty much any other kind of matchup. Mephidross + Trisk might become maindeck over Iona + Servant since those don't hit colorless that mono-U 12 post packs. So far, very consistent, and the little dudes really help in the zoo matchups chump blocking till you can assemble big mana business.
Haha, yes. Fortunately. Too bad I was testing against them before they were banned.
CG
I don't think you need Green Sun because the deck doesn't depend on Titan. Rather, it shouldn't. It should depend on Eldrazi. Just run eight or so Eldrazi, your Titans, a Wurmcoil Engine or two, and your basic land tutor suite (Explore, Scrying, Maps, Ancient Stirrings), and you should be good.
Where one resolved eldrazi sometimes wins the game, a resolved tooth and nail should win every game since lock downs and infinite combos at instant speed can come down. If it doesn't, you have done something wrong.
Ulamog and Kozilek are vulnerable to instant speed removal and Emrakul is vulnerable to sacrificing effects (cruel edict, barter in blood, warren weirding) so there is a chance (albeit a slight one) that your opponent can recover from those. A resolved tooth and nail should be game over every time if you have the proper tools for each type of match up.
There are definitely merits to each strategy, I personally prefer the flexibility and toolboxing of a tooth and nail build. Eldrazi just seem like a 'win more' kind of effect, where you could have cast something sooner and probably won just as handily. Cheating stuff into play is always more fun to me