I have always liked the kamigawa block and since most players did not enjoy it as much as i did they tend to ignore all the cards that are not popular in it. here is a list of cards that have unique abilities that could answer several tier1 decks at the moment including a critical hate card against 12 post
Ill start with this allstar red card i found
Sowing Salt Lets see it exiles a non basic and all other non basics with the same name from target players hand, library, graveyard is this a soon to be end of 12 post?
Neko-Te possible another control finisher when combined with a creature that can damage multiple other creatures
Quash a counterspell that can remove all instants/sorceries with the same name possible board with control matchups? or 12 post hiding from sowing salt
Toshiro Umezawa a cheap black creature that turns all of your instant kill spells into 2 for 1ns wow
Well I like that you are representing Kamigawa, it was most definitely the most fun when it came to block.
The only card I see here that I like is the Sowing Salt, nice pick on that.
Sowing Salts is a nice find. Same with Genju of the Spires and Quash. I agree with you, most people forget about a lot of Kamigawa cards that aren't overtly popular.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
This card was more than $20 and an automatic sideboard in every black deck when I left the game. eliminates combo decks completely, and its high cost can be gotten around with mana accel
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
No one used Hidetsugu's Second Rite, because it sucks so much. It is hard to get an opponent to 10 life normally, and next to impossible in a format with Fetchlands.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I have always liked the kamigawa block and since most players did not enjoy it as much as i did they tend to ignore all the cards that are not popular in it. here is a list of cards that have unique abilities that could answer several tier1 decks at the moment including a critical hate card against 12 post
Ill start with this allstar red card i found
Sowing Salt Lets see it exiles a non basic and all other non basics with the same name from target players hand, library, graveyard is this a soon to be end of 12 post?
Not terrible, possibly better than Molten Rain against X-post specifically, but unless X-post is the most played deck I think it's still too narrow.
Terrible Finisher because it's not any good on it's own. Control finishers needs to be either hard to kill or provide card advantage when killed, and this does neither.
You're right, 4 mana is too much when your opponent gets to hit once more. Something like Day of Judgment or Ghostly Prison is better than this almost always.
Quash a counterspell that can remove all instants/sorceries with the same name possible board with control matchups? or 12 post hiding from sowing salt
A 4-mana counterspell that doesn't even work against all spells? There would have to be some massively imporant spell for this to be worth it. Are there any decks that rely extremely hard on one particular instant/sorcery?
Sowing Salt Lets see it exiles a non basic and all other non basics with the same name from target players hand, library, graveyard is this a soon to be end of 12 post?
Sowing Salt will see play, no doubt. I don't think anyone's forgotten about it.
Genju of the Spires maybe a mono red or all in red strat with this doesnt have trample but the cost is so cheap
I think Genju of the Fields was the best card in this cycle. Anyone know if it got errata'd, or can you still stack its lifelink ability multiple times?
Hidetsugu's Second Rite another red burn finisher have not seen anyone talking about this at all so that surprised me
Everyone is commending Sowing Salt, and I don't quite get it. In the right deck, Sowing Salt is incredible, but it's not something every red deck will want to run. If you don't run acceleration, it comes down turn 4. On the play, that's okay. On the draw, that's terrible. If you live past 12post's turn 4, you're probably going to win anyway. That being said, it's great sideboard tech for decks like AiR and Dragonstorm, because they run rituals and can pop it turns 2-3.
Umezawa's Jitte: And it's still banned. It did consume Kamigawa-legal Standard, though...
I think Threads of Disloyalty pops up pretty often in sideboards, even in Legacy: against Zoo, take a Tarmogoyf or Wild Nacatl or something and beat their face with it.
I think you mean Condemn 5-8 (except it can also pick off creatures that don't attack to do damage; e.g. Grim Lavamancer). Path to Exile is generally superior because it also takes out creatures that don't do damage to you.
Anyone remember B/W tokens from Lorwyn/Alara?
Imagine a deck like that running Promise of Bunrei.
I know I'll be testing it.
Actually even before the Lorwyn/Alara version, there was a Kamigawa version called Ghost Husk that ran Promise alongside sac outlets like Plagued Rusalka to pop Promise and feed Nantuko Husk. Orzhov Pontiff combo'd nicely for some very explosive swings.
The problem with Sowing Salt against Post is that it doesn't deal with Vesuva, ever. If they have two Cloudposts in play and you salt one, they can still copy the other one with Vesuva all they want. So it doesn't shut them down as much as it did Tron decks, where it was quite likely for them to only have one copy of one of the pieces at which point you could salt it and prevent them from ever assembling Tron.
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I really appreciate this thread! I didn't play during Kamigawa and, honestly, I've not heard much about many of these cards. I came back to the game just prior to coldsnap and the general consensus was that Kamigawa block was quite lackluster. Promise of Bunrei seems pretty interesting especially in the context of other cards in this format. I really wish that there was an efficient way to abuse Horobi, Death's Wail, but honestly black is just flooded with potent 4cc creatures.
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Sowing Salt seems great, but it's not quite as super spectacular as it seems. It's a bit slow. 12-post should have 2+ cloudpost on the battlefield when you cast this, and it never grabs vesuvas. It's good, though. I'd like to test it. Could at least be demoralizing...
I really appreciate this thread! I didn't play during Kamigawa and, honestly, I've not heard much about many of these cards. I came back to the game just prior to coldsnap and the general consensus was that Kamigawa block was quite lackluster. Promise of Bunrei seems pretty interesting especially in the context of other cards in this format. I really wish that there was an efficient way to abuse Horobi, Death's Wail, but honestly black is just flooded with potent 4cc creatures.
Kamigawa was very hit or miss. The spirit/arcane mechanic was not popular and was relatively underpowered. A lot of terrible creatures crowded the lower rarities. But there were some real gems.
I went through the Saviors of Kamigawa set, the most criminally underpowered set in Magic's recent history, looking for any gems that might be of use to the Modern player. If they can be found here, they can be found anywhere. Here are three that caught my eye. One of them is particularly excellent.
1. Thoughts of Ruin
People have mentioned this card before, I know, but it has not gotten enough credit. This thing is really just a red Armageddon in most cases (Especially on turn 4). It's particularly brutal in a Stax deck designed to use artifact mana sources that can survive, or with a Crucible of Worlds cast the turn earlier. A particularly nasty play I was involved in used a turn 4 Magus of the Tabernacle followed by a turn 5 Thoughts of Ruin, with the Stax player dropping the land after the Thoughts. The opponent got board wiped, the Magus lived on.
2. Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
This combo deck is absurdly easy to use. Gitaxian Probe, Memnite/Ornithopter, Repeal, Mox Opal, etc. Once Eraya activates, the game is all but over; add in Rule of Law or Ethersworn Canonist to seal the deal. This combo deck is a serious force, and it can double as a basic UW Aggro build. Check it out when you have some free time to brew.
3. Shifting Borders
This thing. Is a BEATING against Twelvepost, Urzatron, and certain control decks. You gain profit. They gain...what? A basic land? Just for kicks, I tested this in an artifact deck running Glimmervoid, taking 1 Cloudpost and giving them 1 Glimmervoid. Hilarity ensued. Check this out agains Twelvepost. It's RIDICULOUS as an Instant.
-ktkenshinx-
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Ill start with this allstar red card i found
Sowing Salt Lets see it exiles a non basic and all other non basics with the same name from target players hand, library, graveyard is this a soon to be end of 12 post?
Horobi, Death's Wail Possible control finisher when combined with cards like gigadrowse
Reciprocate Paths 5-8?
Genju of the Spires maybe a mono red or all in red strat with this doesnt have trample but the cost is so cheap
Hidetsugu's Second Rite another red burn finisher have not seen anyone talking about this at all so that surprised me
Mark of the Oni a possible mind control for 3 in black
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker heavy white control right here mana is a bit high at 4 though
Neko-Te possible another control finisher when combined with a creature that can damage multiple other creatures
Quash a counterspell that can remove all instants/sorceries with the same name possible board with control matchups? or 12 post hiding from sowing salt
Toshiro Umezawa a cheap black creature that turns all of your instant kill spells into 2 for 1ns wow
so any cards here that might help the meta?
Modern - Boom Zoo, Project X/Meleria, Grix megrim, U/W denial, dragonstorm
The only card I see here that I like is the Sowing Salt, nice pick on that.
It's a pity that 12 poat does not completely suffer under Hokori, but the Thoughts of Ruin is a nice card.
This card was more than $20 and an automatic sideboard in every black deck when I left the game. eliminates combo decks completely, and its high cost can be gotten around with mana accel
-MTG Salvation.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Not terrible, possibly better than Molten Rain against X-post specifically, but unless X-post is the most played deck I think it's still too narrow.
Terrible Finisher because it's not any good on it's own. Control finishers needs to be either hard to kill or provide card advantage when killed, and this does neither.
Worse than Dismember in almost every way. Similar life cost but dismembers has less timing restrictions and can take care of utility creatures.
Just way too inefficient, you seem to think that paying 3 mana per turn is cheap in a format where the critical turn is turn 4.
Even if you can get them to specifcally 10 life, which isn't always the easiest, fetch lands by themself make this card pretty bad.
Just terrible, how do you expect to reliably get a demon in play and keep it there?
You're right, 4 mana is too much when your opponent gets to hit once more. Something like Day of Judgment or Ghostly Prison is better than this almost always.
This card doesn't compare very favourably with Basilisk Collar.
A 4-mana counterspell that doesn't even work against all spells? There would have to be some massively imporant spell for this to be worth it. Are there any decks that rely extremely hard on one particular instant/sorcery?
As possible engine card, but considering how powerful the format is this guy will be relegated to the casual league.
Not really, no. At least not the competitive meta.
Sowing Salt will see play, no doubt. I don't think anyone's forgotten about it.
I think Genju of the Fields was the best card in this cycle. Anyone know if it got errata'd, or can you still stack its lifelink ability multiple times?
This card is cute with Sorin Markov.
This might be exactly the card Mono-white Stax is looking for. Then again, it might also be terrible.
I had a U/B control deck that ran this guy. It was a savage beating at the kitchen table. I doubt it'll translate.
My favorite sleeper card from Kami block is Threads of Disloyalty. I think it'll show up in a lot of sideboards.
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Manriki-Gusari: Only when Stoneforge Mystic was legal. Offing other guys' Batterskulls efficiently was good.Umezawa's Jitte: And it's still banned. It did consume Kamigawa-legal Standard, though...I think Threads of Disloyalty pops up pretty often in sideboards, even in Legacy: against Zoo, take a Tarmogoyf or Wild Nacatl or something and beat their face with it.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot about Gifts Ungiven! It's so good that it's restricted in Vintage. In Modern, search for Life from the Loam, Cloudpost, Vesuva, and Tolaria West and watch your opponent fume.
Thanks, Viricide, for making me remember Kira, Great Glass-Spinner! Merfolk plays it to make everyone dodge removal.
I could see Hokori, Dust Drinker in the right build of D+T or a more standard White Weenie.
I think you mean Condemn 5-8 (except it can also pick off creatures that don't attack to do damage; e.g. Grim Lavamancer). Path to Exile is generally superior because it also takes out creatures that don't do damage to you.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Imagine a deck like that running Promise of Bunrei.
I know I'll be testing it.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Actually even before the Lorwyn/Alara version, there was a Kamigawa version called Ghost Husk that ran Promise alongside sac outlets like Plagued Rusalka to pop Promise and feed Nantuko Husk. Orzhov Pontiff combo'd nicely for some very explosive swings.
I could see a hybrid version using the above with Spectral Possession and Windbrisk Heights.
CG
Kamigawa was very hit or miss. The spirit/arcane mechanic was not popular and was relatively underpowered. A lot of terrible creatures crowded the lower rarities. But there were some real gems.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All often shows up in sideboards against control.
Dosan the Falling Leaf is cool green tech against counterspells.
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant was the basis of an old deck.
Jushi Apprentice was a staple of blue decks at the time.
Nezumi Shortfang is instant speed repeatable discard, which is rare.
Tomb of Urami won me several games in an old black weenie block deck.
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Sorry, Bob lives in Ravnica. I mentioned Umezawa's Jitte earlier, but it's banned.
Raggedjoe, the grand slam you're missing is Gifts Ungiven.
Edit: nath'd!
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1. Thoughts of Ruin
People have mentioned this card before, I know, but it has not gotten enough credit. This thing is really just a red Armageddon in most cases (Especially on turn 4). It's particularly brutal in a Stax deck designed to use artifact mana sources that can survive, or with a Crucible of Worlds cast the turn earlier. A particularly nasty play I was involved in used a turn 4 Magus of the Tabernacle followed by a turn 5 Thoughts of Ruin, with the Stax player dropping the land after the Thoughts. The opponent got board wiped, the Magus lived on.
2. Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
This combo deck is absurdly easy to use. Gitaxian Probe, Memnite/Ornithopter, Repeal, Mox Opal, etc. Once Eraya activates, the game is all but over; add in Rule of Law or Ethersworn Canonist to seal the deal. This combo deck is a serious force, and it can double as a basic UW Aggro build. Check it out when you have some free time to brew.
3. Shifting Borders
This thing. Is a BEATING against Twelvepost, Urzatron, and certain control decks. You gain profit. They gain...what? A basic land? Just for kicks, I tested this in an artifact deck running Glimmervoid, taking 1 Cloudpost and giving them 1 Glimmervoid. Hilarity ensued. Check this out agains Twelvepost. It's RIDICULOUS as an Instant.
-ktkenshinx-