Yes, I've seen all the decks in that link. And I know Thopter-Sword was a backup plan. But the fact of the matter is that having a combo that could go off at almost any time and the unbeatable long game of Thopter-Sword in the same deck is what made the deck too good. A deck with just the Dark Depths combo isn't nearly as powerful. Decks without the Thopter-Sword backup plan have never dominated anything.
Also, I have to say that I laughed at how you referred to my post. "A lot of words."
lol, yeah I do stuff like that when quoting walls of text
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I agree with the ban list for the most part. If bridge from below and glimpse of nature are legal, I wish I had umezawa's jitte to deal with them.
The Chrome Mox ban was a good idea for a lot of reasons.
I can only think of one reason why Chrome Mox is arguably too good and that's because it lets you cast Dark Confidant on turn 1 which is almost literally the best thing you can do in the format. Other than that, it doesn't really enable any decks to the point of them being even remotely broken.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
I can only think of one reason why Chrome Mox is arguably too good and that's because it lets you cast Dark Confidant on turn 1 which is almost literally the best thing you can do in the format. Other than that, it doesn't really enable any decks to the point of them being even remotely broken.
actually turn 2 batterskull might be a bit broke lol. If it wasn't for that I would say that is would be perfectly fine in the environment just as it was in extended. jitte should be unbanned though as it is really only good in decks with few creatures or aggro mirrors.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Agreed re: Jitte - it really helps keep the Elf deck under control.
I was thinking it stops alternate beater Vendilion Clique and Dark Confidant as well, although Jitte might help Vendilion a bit too much? I can somewhat see why it was banned. I'll be moving to Falls Church VA in 3-4 weeks, would you want to do some testing?
What deck wants turn 2 Confidant the most? I have a set and no idea what to use him with.
We got more bannings than we asked for.:embarrass:
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1. press ctrl+f
2. then type 6 or 9
3. Scroll Back here
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I'm not going to go through this thread and check, but I suspect that even the worst suggestion in here was probably better than what Wizards came up with.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
Wizards decide that instead of just banning the "unfun" and "non-interactive" stuff and let things work themselves out, so that they can see how the format works out, they instead decide to do this:
A: Hey, this Modern format thing seems to attract a lot of interest, but we dont have the time to test for it. How can we satisfy our players by giving them a fair format?
B: (drunk idiot) Yea, I know. Lets just compile all the decks that people *****ed about in the past 5 years. Ban some of their key cards and let the format roll. After all, if they *****ed about it in either Standard or Extended, it must be broken. Right?
A: You know what? I like that idea.
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1. press ctrl+f
2. then type 6 or 9
3. Scroll Back here
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Actually I think it was well thought out and should lead to a well balanced diverse FAIR format to begin with.
Technically, all that happened to the format was 2 Tier 1 decks got banned, 3 tier 1 decks became more frustrating, and a bunch of random decks got hosed.
Actually I think it was well thought out and should lead to a well balanced diverse FAIR format to begin with.
they need to add goyf,wild nactl,cloudpost, and bloodbraid elf to actually achieve this. All they did was take out decks that stood a chance against what is now the big 3
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
They slowed the format down, which is a good thing. Over time I expect it to speed up a bit, but to begin with it will be fine.
It felt like they cut off the leg, when the foot was the problem though. Hypergenesis, the Elves! card they banned, and maybe SFM would have been MORE than enough.
Looking for opinions on whether or not Jace TMS will come off this list some day. I was thinking of shelling out the cash for a playset but I don't plan on buying in to Legacy now that Modern is an official format. If the consensus is that Jace is powerful enough to remain on the Modern banned list indefinitely then I'll just try to pick up a singleton for my cube.
Looking for opinions on whether or not Jace TMS will come off this list some day. I was thinking of shelling out the cash for a playset but I don't plan on buying in to Legacy now that Modern is an official format. If the consensus is that Jace is powerful enough to remain on the Modern banned list indefinitely then I'll just try to pick up a singleton for my cube.
I'm hoping. He's pretty clutch in a few decks, just to help give them efficient draw engines at later stages of the game. He'll never warp a format with Maelstrom PulseOblivion RingPithing Needle and more as much as he warped standard.
It felt like they cut off the leg, when the foot was the problem though. Hypergenesis, the Elves! card they banned, and maybe SFM would have been MORE than enough.
I think you are over reacting. They did away with enablers (which I said they would do) There is still combo to be played and good aggro along with solid control. Its just not broken fast which many are spoiled by at this point.
they need to add goyf,wild nactl,cloudpost, and bloodbraid elf to actually achieve this. All they did was take out decks that stood a chance against what is now the big 3
Its late and you are not looking at everything. Everything you mention is answerable and doesnt win the game on turn 2 or 3. you have time to find answers.
There are going to be more then 3 top decks in the format.
they need to add goyf,wild nactl,cloudpost, and bloodbraid elf to actually achieve this. All they did was take out decks that stood a chance against what is now the big 3
Slipknot, I've liked a lot of what you've had to say about the format so far, browsing through the threads, but... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Goyf and Nacatl are just efficient creatures that attack and block. That's it. They don't have any abilities like Dark Confidant does, and you have to build your deck around them (to a non-zero degree) just to make them playable. I'm sorry, but efficient Green creatures are not ban-worthy. That's just laughable.
This is the problem I have with banning largely inoffensive cards like Ancestral Vision: It creates a slippery slope where the requirement to ban something is decreased with each action, and before you know it, we actually will have people calling for the banning of vanilla Green creatures (with subtle drawbacks, even)!
I'm hoping that was just your snap-reaction to this, and not some calculated response.
I do think that Cloudpost decks might prove to be a real problem, however.
Slipknot, I've liked a lot of what you've had to say about the format so far, browsing through the threads, but... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Goyf and Nacatl are just efficient creatures that attack and block. That's it. They don't have any abilities like Dark Confidant does, and you have to build your deck around them (to a non-zero degree) just to make them playable. I'm sorry, but efficient Green creatures are not ban-worthy. That's just laughable.
This is the problem I have with banning largely inoffensive cards like Ancestral Vision: It creates a slippery slope where the requirement to ban something is decreased with each action, and before you know it, we actually will have people calling for the banning of vanilla Green creatures (with subtle drawbacks, even)!
I'm hoping that was just your snap-reaction to this, and not some calculated response.
I do think that Cloudpost decks might prove to be a real problem, however.
Whaddaya mean they'll be a problem? Turn 4 Emrakul with Counter protection is fine.
Slipknot, I've liked a lot of what you've had to say about the format so far, browsing through the threads, but... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Goyf and Nacatl are just efficient creatures that attack and block. That's it. They don't have any abilities like Dark Confidant does, and you have to build your deck around them (to a non-zero degree) just to make them playable. I'm sorry, but efficient Green creatures are not ban-worthy. That's just laughable.
This is the problem I have with banning largely inoffensive cards like Ancestral Vision: It creates a slippery slope where the requirement to ban something is decreased with each action, and before you know it, we actually will have people calling for the banning of vanilla Green creatures (with subtle drawbacks, even)!
I'm hoping that was just your snap-reaction to this, and not some calculated response.
I do think that Cloudpost decks might prove to be a real problem, however.
I was just saying that they might as well just get rid of all of the decks in the format lol. sarcasm bro.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
In Vintage and Legacy, over time we have been continually picking away at the respective restricted and banned lists, and both are at historical lows in terms of the percentage of the card pool that is banned or restricted.
This is only due to the ever increasing card pool otherwise there are many more cards on the restricted list than ever. In 1997 there were 26 cards on the T1 banned list, of these 26, 8 have been taken off and another 24 have been put on in their place. The only reason that the restricted list is at its lowest percentage of the card pool is that Wizards is continually pumping out new sets.
I feel chrome mox should be unbanned because all the powerful 2 drops are now banned (stoneforge/bitterblossom).
I also feel Mental misstep and Ancestral Visions should not be banned. Neither of them are broken in any way and do not give insane amounts of advantage (outside of cascading into the visions(that is pretty dam ridiculous) )
I dont like that jace was banned but i can agree with it.
Valakut i feel had to go. Scapeshift decks were way to powerful and degenerate. They just needed to resolve a single card and they won.
Holy crap that is awesome. Love the new banned list if only for Jace/Stoneforge.
Misstep banned is a bad choice IMO though, although blue seems really weak now which is maybe something they were trying to get at, making it different from legacy and all.
Why is Grave Troll still banned if dredge is dead? Also why is Dark Confidant still unbanned? It's almost as strong as Stoneforge.
lol, yeah I do stuff like that when quoting walls of text
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
The Chrome Mox ban was a good idea for a lot of reasons.
I can only think of one reason why Chrome Mox is arguably too good and that's because it lets you cast Dark Confidant on turn 1 which is almost literally the best thing you can do in the format. Other than that, it doesn't really enable any decks to the point of them being even remotely broken.
actually turn 2 batterskull might be a bit broke lol. If it wasn't for that I would say that is would be perfectly fine in the environment just as it was in extended. jitte should be unbanned though as it is really only good in decks with few creatures or aggro mirrors.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Agreed re: Jitte - it really helps keep the Elf deck under control.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
I was thinking it stops alternate beater Vendilion Clique and Dark Confidant as well, although Jitte might help Vendilion a bit too much? I can somewhat see why it was banned. I'll be moving to Falls Church VA in 3-4 weeks, would you want to do some testing?
What deck wants turn 2 Confidant the most? I have a set and no idea what to use him with.
shiet just happened.
We got more bannings than we asked for.:embarrass:
2. then type 6 or 9
3. Scroll Back here
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669966666699999999699999999669966669966699669966669966669966
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*GRUNT*
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
3rd times the charm?
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
Wizards decide that instead of just banning the "unfun" and "non-interactive" stuff and let things work themselves out, so that they can see how the format works out, they instead decide to do this:
A: Hey, this Modern format thing seems to attract a lot of interest, but we dont have the time to test for it. How can we satisfy our players by giving them a fair format?
B: (drunk idiot) Yea, I know. Lets just compile all the decks that people *****ed about in the past 5 years. Ban some of their key cards and let the format roll. After all, if they *****ed about it in either Standard or Extended, it must be broken. Right?
A: You know what? I like that idea.
2. then type 6 or 9
3. Scroll Back here
669966666669999996669999996669966669966669999666669966669966
669966666699999999699999999669966669966699669966669966669966
669966666669999999999999996669966669966996666996669966669966
669966666666699999999999966666699996666996666996669966669966
669966666666666999999996666666669966666996666996669966669966
669966666666666669999666666666669966666699669966669966669966
669966666666666666996666666666669966666669999666666999999666
Technically, all that happened to the format was 2 Tier 1 decks got banned, 3 tier 1 decks became more frustrating, and a bunch of random decks got hosed.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
they need to add goyf,wild nactl,cloudpost, and bloodbraid elf to actually achieve this. All they did was take out decks that stood a chance against what is now the big 3
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
It felt like they cut off the leg, when the foot was the problem though. Hypergenesis, the Elves! card they banned, and maybe SFM would have been MORE than enough.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
I'm hoping. He's pretty clutch in a few decks, just to help give them efficient draw engines at later stages of the game. He'll never warp a format with Maelstrom Pulse Oblivion Ring Pithing Needle and more as much as he warped standard.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
I think you are over reacting. They did away with enablers (which I said they would do) There is still combo to be played and good aggro along with solid control. Its just not broken fast which many are spoiled by at this point.
Its late and you are not looking at everything. Everything you mention is answerable and doesnt win the game on turn 2 or 3. you have time to find answers.
There are going to be more then 3 top decks in the format.
Slipknot, I've liked a lot of what you've had to say about the format so far, browsing through the threads, but... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Goyf and Nacatl are just efficient creatures that attack and block. That's it. They don't have any abilities like Dark Confidant does, and you have to build your deck around them (to a non-zero degree) just to make them playable. I'm sorry, but efficient Green creatures are not ban-worthy. That's just laughable.
This is the problem I have with banning largely inoffensive cards like Ancestral Vision: It creates a slippery slope where the requirement to ban something is decreased with each action, and before you know it, we actually will have people calling for the banning of vanilla Green creatures (with subtle drawbacks, even)!
I'm hoping that was just your snap-reaction to this, and not some calculated response.
I do think that Cloudpost decks might prove to be a real problem, however.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Whaddaya mean they'll be a problem? Turn 4 Emrakul with Counter protection is fine.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
I was just saying that they might as well just get rid of all of the decks in the format lol. sarcasm bro.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
This is only due to the ever increasing card pool otherwise there are many more cards on the restricted list than ever. In 1997 there were 26 cards on the T1 banned list, of these 26, 8 have been taken off and another 24 have been put on in their place. The only reason that the restricted list is at its lowest percentage of the card pool is that Wizards is continually pumping out new sets.
Gwendlyn Di Corci
The Mimeoplasm
Rhys the Exiled
Type 1/Vintage
Dark Times
Gush Storm(dismantled)
I also feel Mental misstep and Ancestral Visions should not be banned. Neither of them are broken in any way and do not give insane amounts of advantage (outside of cascading into the visions(that is pretty dam ridiculous) )
I dont like that jace was banned but i can agree with it.
Valakut i feel had to go. Scapeshift decks were way to powerful and degenerate. They just needed to resolve a single card and they won.
Misstep banned is a bad choice IMO though, although blue seems really weak now which is maybe something they were trying to get at, making it different from legacy and all.
Why is Grave Troll still banned if dredge is dead? Also why is Dark Confidant still unbanned? It's almost as strong as Stoneforge.