I think making comparisons to Legacy decks is perfectly valid when the deck loses little to nothing in the transition.
This i will agree with. when a deck loses nothing or next to nothing, comparisons are appropriate. but saying that batterskull is better than jitte because a deck running 4 FOW 4 Brainfreeze 4 Standstill 4 STP 4 Wasteland is good in legacy doesnt really mean alot for modern
To settle this whole thing, why not hold a mock-tourney (or just grind) on MWS or Cockatrice with no banned list, or with just Skullclamp banned, and see what really is broken? It'd be much easier to agree with eachother if we had hard data staring us all in the face.
To settle this whole thing, why not hold a mock-tourney (or just grind) on MWS or Cockatrice with no banned list, or with just Skullclamp banned, and see what really is broken? It'd be much easier to agree with eachother if we had hard data staring us all in the face.
Because we have the history of the interactions of some of the cards many are asking to be banned. If Wotc just starts the format with just skullclamp banned and work form there, the format will die quickly. No one wants to play a die roll format, which it would be.
For those saying Zoo was competitive in old extended, it was tier 1.5 maybe tier 2 with dredge, hypergenesis, elves and thopter/depths in the format. The only way zoo was making top anything was dancing thru the brackets avoiding those said decks.
I dont mind combo, but I dont want a format defined by combo. That goes for control and aggro too.
Because we have the history of the interactions of some of the cards many are asking to be banned. If Wotc just starts the format with just skullclamp banned and work form there, the format will die quickly. No one wants to play a die roll format, which it would be.
For those saying Zoo was competitive in old extended, it was tier 1.5 maybe tier 2 with dredge, hypergenesis, elves and thopter/depths in the format. The only way zoo was making top anything was dancing thru the brackets avoiding those said decks.
I dont mind combo, but I dont want a format defined by combo. That goes for control and aggro too.
Zoo was tier 1 during the last season of old extended, it won a Pro Tour, it won several PTQs during the Extended PTQ season, it top 8'd several other PTQs, it also had multiple top 8 finishes in GP Oakland, and a 2nd place Finish in GP Houston if that's not tier 1 then I have no idea what is.
As for the banned list dilemma, we were suggesting running a few tournaments with a banned list of only Skullclamp and Sensei's Diving Top because people were complaining that we couldn't know what has to be banned without testing it. Obviously its pointless to run a banlist free format when we have a card like Skullclamp in the format because we know some cards are definitely going to be banned but I'd rather start with a short banned list with more frequent updates than a longer banned list that might ban things which are perfectly fine.
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Zoo was tier 1 during the last season of old extended, it won a Pro Tour, it won several PTQs during the Extended PTQ season, it top 8'd several other PTQs, it also had multiple top 8 finishes in GP Oakland, and a 2nd place Finish in GP Houston if that's not tier 1 then I have no idea what is.
As for the banned list dilemma, we were suggesting running a few tournaments with a banned list of only Skullclamp and Sensei's Diving Top because people were complaining that we couldn't know what has to be banned without testing it. Obviously its pointless to run a banlist free format when we have a card like Skullclamp in the format because we know some cards are definitely going to be banned but I'd rather start with a short banned list with more frequent updates than a longer banned list that might ban things which are perfectly fine.
I played the 2009 extended season, and I stick by what I said. If zoo decks were doing that good it had alot to do with match ups.
I will concede that there were some people that could predict a meta for any given weekend at a ptq or such and tuned their deck accordingly. You can tune zoo to destroy dredge, but will be quite week against thopter depths or hypergenesis. Knowing/guessing whats going to be played for a certain weekend and hitting it for that weekend doesnt mean that certain deck could do that week in and week out.
As for the idea of play testing with ONLY skullclamp and top banned, have at it. I personally dont wish to waste my time getting roflstomped by combo over and over and over.
I am not saying that the format needs to be launched with only Skullclamp banned, but to test the format for broken archetypes and then officially launch it. The truth is that none of us are the end-all, know-all, and that we may all be missing something that true testing can and will reveal. If you don't want to "waste your time" to grind out the format, testing for breaks before it would be officially launched, then don't. You don't have to. Heck, don't even play the format if you are that headstrong, or play with your local casual group with your own choice of a banned list.
The hard truth is, though, that to truly know what is broken, you must test. "I don't want to believe, I want to know." - Carl Sagan
I am not saying that the format needs to be launched with only Skullclamp banned, but to test the format for broken archetypes and then officially launch it. The truth is that none of us are the end-all, know-all, and that we may all be missing something that true testing can and will reveal. If you don't want to "waste your time" to grind out the format, testing for breaks before it would be officially launched, then don't. You don't have to. Heck, don't even play the format if you are that headstrong, or play with your local casual group with your own choice of a banned list.
The hard truth is, though, that to truly know what is broken, you must test. "I don't want to believe, I want to know." - Carl Sagan
Why ignore what we do know tho? If we dont use what we do know as a starting point we are bound to repeat history. We know certain interactions, we know the broken interactions, just ban them to start with. I would much rather have something banned and find out later it can be unbanned, then the other way around.
Also, there is a group of players who LOVE broken magic and think everyone else should just deal with their vision of magic. If those players want this to be a growing healthy format, that thinking has to change. People dont want to sit down across from hypergenesis multiple times during a tourny or thopter/depth combo. This needs what ever size ban list that will make for a diverse format.
Please note that I am not saying that the format should be released before this testing that I am suggesting, but after. If you think something is going to warp the format, test it. Then, when a tried and true banlist can be attained from the data, you can be sure that it was the right decision. Otherwise people end up investing in cards that either end up being banned in the future or that end up worthless because another card or other cards end up being unbanned, making the original strategy worthless or no longer viable. This is why I suggest thorough testing. Wouldn't you agree that this would be much more likely to hold accurate results than to simply guess what we think is overpowered, ban it, and then possibly have to change our minds in the future?
Again, please note that I am not saying that we should or shouldn't ban anything, but to test everything before banning and then putting out our own "official" banlist. We are the community of the game, and it is in this was that we can contribute.
We have an incredible amount of man-hours and personal experience, collectively, playing against interactions like Dark Depths/Hexmage. It's not the "deck" that's the problem, it's the interactions, and we know what the deck does, how it operates, and the problems that interaction creates. Just because you haven't seen that information first-hand doesn't mean that the information doesn't exist, and it doesn't mean that the information isn't relevant.
We have an incredible amount of man-hours and personal experience, collectively, playing against interactions like Dark Depths/Hexmage. It's not the "deck" that's the problem, it's the interactions, and we know what the deck does, how it operates, and the problems that interaction creates. Just because you haven't seen that information first-hand doesn't mean that the information doesn't exist, and it doesn't mean that the information isn't relevant.
Agreed. This the the essence of why 2009 Extended seasons results are very relevant to Modern, because they are practically the same format, just that Modern adds in 7 more sets.
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Wizards should just make it into Noble Magic (1 of each mythic, 2 of each rare, 3 of each uncommon, 4 of each common). I've always wanted to see this format introduced.
Hypergenesis: Hypergenesis should not be a deck. Narcomoeba: Dredge should not be a deck, and I think this is a better banning than Bridge from Below. Arcbound Ravager: Affinity should not be a deck. Sensei's Divining Top: Tournaments have to finish on time. Skullclamp: Duh. Sword of the Meek: Thopter/Depths should not be a deck. I think it's only necessary to ban one half of that deck's combo, as Dark Depths on its own isn't unreasonable as a combo. i think it's possible that Thopter Combo might even be "okay" just because of how disadvantaged control is to begin with when you factor in fetch lands and shock lands, but they can't both exist together or we know what'll happen. Glimpse of Nature: Elf Combo probably shouldn't be a deck, but I'm not 100% certain.
Sure. But the fact that that's a risk doesn't mean that the best outcome isn't still merely slowing and not killing problem decks. And remember we're talking here about a format which doesn't exist yet and isn't yet being played a lot - accordingly, strictly speaking none of these decks are degenerate because there isn't a metagame yet. Preemptively killing five decks - that people will have built and be wanting to play, remember - because you're worried that they might turn out to be degenerate seems like overkill to me.
Although I agree with what you have said.
I do believe that some cards deserve to be banned right from the start to make this format interactive/fun.
They are:
Hypergenesis, Sword of the Meek, Dark Depths, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp and some Affinity Accelerants (like Artifact Lands/Mox Opal/Disciple of the Vault/Cranial Plating etc.)
For example, Hypergenesis just makes the format too uninteractive.
It basically boils down to rolling dice and having a good opening hand.
Practically every other deck will be asked this questions:
"Do you have an answer? Chalice? SSS? Nix? No? Ok, game over."
Granted, Hypergenesis is not unbeatable, but its just too unfun to play against because most decks will have to go out of their way to run stuff like Chalice just to deal with Hypergenesis.
The same applies for the rest of the cards I mentioned. Its either you try to beat them, or you join them. No other way out.
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I do believe that some cards deserve to be banned right from the start to make this format interactive/fun.
They are:
Hypergenesis, Sword of the Meek, Dark Depths, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp and some Affinity Accelerants (like Artifact Lands/Mox Opal/Disciple of the Vault/Cranial Plating etc.)
For example, Hypergenesis just makes the format too uninteractive.
It basically boils down to rolling dice and having a good opening hand.
Practically every other deck will be asked this questions:
"Do you have an answer? Chalice? SSS? Nix? No? Ok, game over."
Granted, Hypergenesis is not unbeatable, but its just too unfun to play against because most decks will have to go out of their way to run stuff like Chalice just to deal with Hypergenesis.
The same applies for the rest of the cards I mentioned. Its either you try to beat them, or you join them. No other way out.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone at this point, but what about AIR, then? It can pull off a first turn "win" on an opponent, just like Hypergenesis. Do you cripple that, too? If so, how?
I have played against affinity decks that doesn't even have ravager and is still extremely competitive. This is Legacy I am talking about.
You essentitally get free fuel for affinity cards like thoughtcast and metalcraft cards like mox opal. You can easily and very reliably get metalcraft by turn 1. Also powers Tezzeret.
Ravager is most definitely a good card but he wasn't the heart of the combo. It was the artifact lands.
Hypergenesis might be a different story. Its kinda stupid how you can just cascade into it and if you don't have a counterspell (aka not playing blue) then you are essentially screwed. I don't think Nix is even that good. It should have been free to cast.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone at this point, but what about AIR, then? It can pull off a first turn "win" on an opponent, just like Hypergenesis. Do you cripple that, too? If so, how?
AIR is only good against decks that Blood moon is good against. If your running a deck like this you need a way to counter/destroy moon. 2-3 spell pierce(if blue) in your sideboard is nuts against them and hypergen.
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I am not a fan of banning mana base/land cards. The one exception would be dark depths. This one card forces you to play a certain stratagy and in essence certain colors. When depths hits the table if you dont have a way to bounce or make your opponent sac Mr. Indestructable when he hits the table, you lose. This is also one example where you cant ban the enabler either.
As for artifact lands, yeah they are powerful but I dont think they should be banned. By banning the arty lands you are nuking a whole deck for the format. I dont think a complete deck should be eliminated just because.
I still dont understand the hate for dredge and no one ever says why they want it out of the format, just that it shouldnt be. By the way banning nacromoeba just slows the deck down doesnt kill it. There are other enablers that could be played. I have no problem with troll being banned. That banning seems to slow the deck down to the rest of the decks except elves.
As I have said before, Hypergenesis has to be banned for this format to grow. Elves needs to be slowed down. I am sure some other interactions will come to the front once those 2 decks are dealt with.
I am not a fan of banning mana base/land cards. The one exception would be dark depths. This one card forces you to play a certain stratagy and in essence certain colors. When depths hits the table if you dont have a way to bounce or make your opponent sac Mr. Indestructable when he hits the table, you lose. This is also one example where you cant ban the enabler either.
As for artifact lands, yeah they are powerful but I dont think they should be banned. By banning the arty lands you are nuking a whole deck for the format. I dont think a complete deck should be eliminated just because.
I still dont understand the hate for dredge and no one ever says why they want it out of the format, just that it shouldnt be. By the way banning nacromoeba just slows the deck down doesnt kill it. There are other enablers that could be played. I have no problem with troll being banned. That banning seems to slow the deck down to the rest of the decks except elves.
As I have said before, Hypergenesis has to be banned for this format to grow. Elves needs to be slowed down. I am sure some other interactions will come to the front once those 2 decks are dealt with.
I played a UB tron and won like 12 games in a row against elves back when both decks were in 1.x. the deck is not really good, unless your playing faeries, or teachings. IF your playing zoo main deck some earthquakes or volcanic fallout(also good vs fae) and its an easy match up. If i run teachings I'm going to have some infest in board.
The only thing is that it is the most linear creature strategy in the format. Play mass removal you can easily win, not you lose.
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When people think Modern, many people think powered down Legacy but thats not true. Most Legacy decks ARE modern decks except Dual lands and Force of Will. Also Brainstorm.
There's various other cards but you can port a deck like Dredge, Evles, and Merfolk over and you would be only losing about 8 cards that aren't standard and the land package.
The artifact lands not only break affinity but they break the metalcraft mechanic entirely. Should you get to play with up to 24 artifact lands? I personally don't think so.
When people think Modern, many people think powered down Legacy but thats not true. Most Legacy decks ARE modern decks except Dual lands and Force of Will. Also Brainstorm.
There's various other cards but you can port a deck like Dredge, Evles, and Merfolk over and you would be only losing about 8 cards that aren't standard and the land package.
The artifact lands not only break affinity but they break the metalcraft mechanic entirely. Should you get to play with up to 24 artifact lands? I personally don't think so.
its not affinity, but Metal craft with affinity that gives possible of problems. Also modern as it is now is just old extended with a few new toys and a different ban list. No where near legacy with TEPS and such. Dredge losses a crap ton of IMPORTANT cards like Break through,ect. Merfolk is probably bad in this format, because it is not heavy combo nor do they have 8 "free" counterspells. Who the hell runs elves in legacy....you have free ways to demolish them in legacy.
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I played a UB tron and won like 12 games in a row against elves back when both decks were in 1.x. the deck is not really good, unless your playing faeries, or teachings. IF your playing zoo main deck some earthquakes or volcanic fallout(also good vs fae) and its an easy match up. If i run teachings I'm going to have some infest in board.
The only thing is that it is the most linear creature strategy in the format. Play mass removal you can easily win, not you lose.
I wish it was really like that back in 09. I played back then too. U/B tron/ teachings were fringe decks that may be good depending on meta. You cant stop elves or hyper or depths that go off turn 1 or 2. Hell turn 3 is rough most times. Slow control decks were far and few between because of the speed of old extended. Zoo is another deck that is meta/match up dependent. Also the builds and pilots can make or break the match up.
Put it this way, fea is tier 1.5 or maybe 2.0 in new extended, 4cc and 5cc were all but unplayable. I dont expect it to do much better in modern. Modern is going to be a format dominated by combo until those decks are dialed down to let other stratagies come to the front.
One last thing, alot of people are looking at modern/overextended as legacy lite alot more then new extended or old extended. the fact nothing rotates seems to change the perception of a format.
I don't think Nix is even that good. It should have been free to cast.
It does more than just fight the good fight against Hypergenesis (which is enough for it to be decent anyway), but it also can counter other cascade heavy decks, several Zendikar block traps (though, doing this usually means you are the griefer, not the control player), and also a little card called Dread Return. Having one sideboard slot devoted to ending two of the most obnoxious decks in the format is pretty good if you ask me.
It does more than just fight the good fight against Hypergenesis (which is enough for it to be decent anyway), but it also can counter other cascade heavy decks, several Zendikar block traps (though, doing this usually means you are the griefer, not the control player), and also a little card called Dread Return. Having one sideboard slot devoted to ending two of the most obnoxious decks in the format is pretty good if you ask me.
typically spell pierce will have the same results except it is only a dead card against half the field. Zen traps are slow/clunky and will not likely see much play.
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typically spell pierce will have the same results except it is only a dead card against half the field. Zen traps are slow/clunky and will not likely see much play.
I suppose, but not as often against Dredge unless they are not smart enough to realize you're playing blue. Zen traps for the most part won't, but Ravenous and Mindbreak might. The first v. dredge and the second v. storm, but those are very meta-dependant. Nix can come in if you're playing dredge/storm if you know that people will be packing that type of hate, but again, depends on how competitive/knowledgeable about each other's decks your meta is.
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This i will agree with. when a deck loses nothing or next to nothing, comparisons are appropriate. but saying that batterskull is better than jitte because a deck running 4 FOW 4 Brainfreeze 4 Standstill 4 STP 4 Wasteland is good in legacy doesnt really mean alot for modern
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Because we have the history of the interactions of some of the cards many are asking to be banned. If Wotc just starts the format with just skullclamp banned and work form there, the format will die quickly. No one wants to play a die roll format, which it would be.
For those saying Zoo was competitive in old extended, it was tier 1.5 maybe tier 2 with dredge, hypergenesis, elves and thopter/depths in the format. The only way zoo was making top anything was dancing thru the brackets avoiding those said decks.
I dont mind combo, but I dont want a format defined by combo. That goes for control and aggro too.
Zoo was tier 1 during the last season of old extended, it won a Pro Tour, it won several PTQs during the Extended PTQ season, it top 8'd several other PTQs, it also had multiple top 8 finishes in GP Oakland, and a 2nd place Finish in GP Houston if that's not tier 1 then I have no idea what is.
As for the banned list dilemma, we were suggesting running a few tournaments with a banned list of only Skullclamp and Sensei's Diving Top because people were complaining that we couldn't know what has to be banned without testing it. Obviously its pointless to run a banlist free format when we have a card like Skullclamp in the format because we know some cards are definitely going to be banned but I'd rather start with a short banned list with more frequent updates than a longer banned list that might ban things which are perfectly fine.
I played the 2009 extended season, and I stick by what I said. If zoo decks were doing that good it had alot to do with match ups.
I will concede that there were some people that could predict a meta for any given weekend at a ptq or such and tuned their deck accordingly. You can tune zoo to destroy dredge, but will be quite week against thopter depths or hypergenesis. Knowing/guessing whats going to be played for a certain weekend and hitting it for that weekend doesnt mean that certain deck could do that week in and week out.
As for the idea of play testing with ONLY skullclamp and top banned, have at it. I personally dont wish to waste my time getting roflstomped by combo over and over and over.
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Why ignore what we do know tho? If we dont use what we do know as a starting point we are bound to repeat history. We know certain interactions, we know the broken interactions, just ban them to start with. I would much rather have something banned and find out later it can be unbanned, then the other way around.
Also, there is a group of players who LOVE broken magic and think everyone else should just deal with their vision of magic. If those players want this to be a growing healthy format, that thinking has to change. People dont want to sit down across from hypergenesis multiple times during a tourny or thopter/depth combo. This needs what ever size ban list that will make for a diverse format.
Again, please note that I am not saying that we should or shouldn't ban anything, but to test everything before banning and then putting out our own "official" banlist. We are the community of the game, and it is in this was that we can contribute.
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Agreed. This the the essence of why 2009 Extended seasons results are very relevant to Modern, because they are practically the same format, just that Modern adds in 7 more sets.
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Or just ban these 3: Sword of the Meek, Sensei's Divining Top, [CARD]Skullclamp
[/CARD]
All 3 uncommon artifacts that start with the letter S.
Hypergenesis
Narcomoeba
Arcbound Ravager
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Sword of the Meek
Glimpse of Nature
Hypergenesis: Hypergenesis should not be a deck.
Narcomoeba: Dredge should not be a deck, and I think this is a better banning than Bridge from Below.
Arcbound Ravager: Affinity should not be a deck.
Sensei's Divining Top: Tournaments have to finish on time.
Skullclamp: Duh.
Sword of the Meek: Thopter/Depths should not be a deck. I think it's only necessary to ban one half of that deck's combo, as Dark Depths on its own isn't unreasonable as a combo. i think it's possible that Thopter Combo might even be "okay" just because of how disadvantaged control is to begin with when you factor in fetch lands and shock lands, but they can't both exist together or we know what'll happen.
Glimpse of Nature: Elf Combo probably shouldn't be a deck, but I'm not 100% certain.
I do not think Umezawa's Jitte needs to be banned.
I do not think Chrome Mox needs to be banned.
I do not think Dark Depths needs to be banned.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Although I agree with what you have said.
I do believe that some cards deserve to be banned right from the start to make this format interactive/fun.
They are:
Hypergenesis, Sword of the Meek, Dark Depths, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp and some Affinity Accelerants (like Artifact Lands/Mox Opal/Disciple of the Vault/Cranial Plating etc.)
For example, Hypergenesis just makes the format too uninteractive.
It basically boils down to rolling dice and having a good opening hand.
Practically every other deck will be asked this questions:
"Do you have an answer? Chalice? SSS? Nix? No? Ok, game over."
Granted, Hypergenesis is not unbeatable, but its just too unfun to play against because most decks will have to go out of their way to run stuff like Chalice just to deal with Hypergenesis.
The same applies for the rest of the cards I mentioned. Its either you try to beat them, or you join them. No other way out.
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I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone at this point, but what about AIR, then? It can pull off a first turn "win" on an opponent, just like Hypergenesis. Do you cripple that, too? If so, how?
Lantern Control
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Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
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I have played against affinity decks that doesn't even have ravager and is still extremely competitive. This is Legacy I am talking about.
You essentitally get free fuel for affinity cards like thoughtcast and metalcraft cards like mox opal. You can easily and very reliably get metalcraft by turn 1. Also powers Tezzeret.
Ravager is most definitely a good card but he wasn't the heart of the combo. It was the artifact lands.
Hypergenesis might be a different story. Its kinda stupid how you can just cascade into it and if you don't have a counterspell (aka not playing blue) then you are essentially screwed. I don't think Nix is even that good. It should have been free to cast.
AIR is only good against decks that Blood moon is good against. If your running a deck like this you need a way to counter/destroy moon. 2-3 spell pierce(if blue) in your sideboard is nuts against them and hypergen.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
As for artifact lands, yeah they are powerful but I dont think they should be banned. By banning the arty lands you are nuking a whole deck for the format. I dont think a complete deck should be eliminated just because.
I still dont understand the hate for dredge and no one ever says why they want it out of the format, just that it shouldnt be. By the way banning nacromoeba just slows the deck down doesnt kill it. There are other enablers that could be played. I have no problem with troll being banned. That banning seems to slow the deck down to the rest of the decks except elves.
As I have said before, Hypergenesis has to be banned for this format to grow. Elves needs to be slowed down. I am sure some other interactions will come to the front once those 2 decks are dealt with.
I played a UB tron and won like 12 games in a row against elves back when both decks were in 1.x. the deck is not really good, unless your playing faeries, or teachings. IF your playing zoo main deck some earthquakes or volcanic fallout(also good vs fae) and its an easy match up. If i run teachings I'm going to have some infest in board.
The only thing is that it is the most linear creature strategy in the format. Play mass removal you can easily win, not you lose.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
There's various other cards but you can port a deck like Dredge, Evles, and Merfolk over and you would be only losing about 8 cards that aren't standard and the land package.
The artifact lands not only break affinity but they break the metalcraft mechanic entirely. Should you get to play with up to 24 artifact lands? I personally don't think so.
its not affinity, but Metal craft with affinity that gives possible of problems. Also modern as it is now is just old extended with a few new toys and a different ban list. No where near legacy with TEPS and such. Dredge losses a crap ton of IMPORTANT cards like Break through,ect. Merfolk is probably bad in this format, because it is not heavy combo nor do they have 8 "free" counterspells. Who the hell runs elves in legacy....you have free ways to demolish them in legacy.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I wish it was really like that back in 09. I played back then too. U/B tron/ teachings were fringe decks that may be good depending on meta. You cant stop elves or hyper or depths that go off turn 1 or 2. Hell turn 3 is rough most times. Slow control decks were far and few between because of the speed of old extended. Zoo is another deck that is meta/match up dependent. Also the builds and pilots can make or break the match up.
Put it this way, fea is tier 1.5 or maybe 2.0 in new extended, 4cc and 5cc were all but unplayable. I dont expect it to do much better in modern. Modern is going to be a format dominated by combo until those decks are dialed down to let other stratagies come to the front.
One last thing, alot of people are looking at modern/overextended as legacy lite alot more then new extended or old extended. the fact nothing rotates seems to change the perception of a format.
It does more than just fight the good fight against Hypergenesis (which is enough for it to be decent anyway), but it also can counter other cascade heavy decks, several Zendikar block traps (though, doing this usually means you are the griefer, not the control player), and also a little card called Dread Return. Having one sideboard slot devoted to ending two of the most obnoxious decks in the format is pretty good if you ask me.
typically spell pierce will have the same results except it is only a dead card against half the field. Zen traps are slow/clunky and will not likely see much play.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I suppose, but not as often against Dredge unless they are not smart enough to realize you're playing blue. Zen traps for the most part won't, but Ravenous and Mindbreak might. The first v. dredge and the second v. storm, but those are very meta-dependant. Nix can come in if you're playing dredge/storm if you know that people will be packing that type of hate, but again, depends on how competitive/knowledgeable about each other's decks your meta is.