ok i forgot about that old deck. all though that is a kinda meh list. lol at affinity winning although this also not a very compeditive tournament. I can't believe I forgot that fiery zoo existed, but the argument was for it in jund which is bad.
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ok i forgot about that old deck. all though that is a kinda meh list. lol at affinity winning although this also not a very compeditive tournament. I can't believe I forgot that fiery zoo existed, but the argument was for it in jund which is bad.
Yeah I doubt he's good in Jund, I just wanted to state that Kavu is viable in other archetypes.
On topic. Jund seems quite lackluster in a Zoo environment. Do you guys think it's possible to get a better match up against it?
I haven't seen a list that might stand a chance.
Yeah I doubt he's good in Jund, I just wanted to state that Kavu is viable in other archetypes.
On topic. Jund seems quite lackluster in a Zoo environment. Do you guys think it's possible to get a better match up against it?
I haven't seen a list that might stand a chance.
you need a ton of removal to go with punishing fire. Kitchen finks will help a lot and BBE into other things will help. the list I posted earlier did well against zoo.
Putrid leach is also pretty good against them if they don't have a lightning bot in hand. the only thing I think this list needs is something like siege-gang commander to sure up the midrange just a bit.
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you need a ton of removal to go with punishing fire. Kitchen finks will help a lot and BBE into other things will help. the list I posted earlier did well against zoo.
Putrid leach is also pretty good against them if they don't have a lightning bot in hand. the only thing I think this list needs is something like siege-gang commander to sure up the midrange just a bit.
If Jund needs any creature at the 5 slot, it's going to be Demigod of Revenge there, and not Commander. Not that Commander is bad, but Demigod is just better. It really just depends on how "big" you want to go with jund, and whether you want to play Confidant, or just play off 2 for 1 effects intead of card drawing effects.
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If Jund needs any creature at the 5 slot, it's going to be Demigod of Revenge there, and not Commander. Not that Commander is bad, but Demigod is just better. It really just depends on how "big" you want to go with jund, and whether you want to play Confidant, or just play off 2 for 1 effects intead of card drawing effects.
siege gang commander is so stupid good against zoo though. just 1 or 2 will give you a few % better win %.
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The main problem with demigod is that he requires 4 deck spaces while siege gang only requires 2 allowing the deck builder 2 more spots for better cards such as removal or more ca.
The main problem with demigod is that he requires 4 deck spaces while siege gang only requires 2 allowing the deck builder 2 more spots for better cards such as removal or more ca.
this and he eats a path and you get no value for him. at least siege gang and his tokens can block and if you untap you opponent is in a world of hurt.
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Both have their merits. Demigod was the creature of choice in extended. I think if you're plying a more controlling fund variant a zenith package and witness could have a place.
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Both have their merits. Demigod was the creature of choice in extended. I think if you're plying a more controlling fund variant a zenith package and witness could have a place.
IMO demigod is only really good in the hyperaggressive version that ran fauna shamen to pitch and recur it. Against creatureless deck SGC is about a turn slower, But against aggro decks he should at least be a 2-1 sometimes even better.
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Actually, you can run it alongside Elf, as cascading into Zenith just means you're playing "Rampant Growth" for dryad arbor (which isn't by itself terrible). It's not a "nut" cascade ala Elf into Ancestral Visions, but considering the relative power of Zenith, having an "okay" cascade to play a great card seems like it could be a worthwhile tradeoff.
Accelerating into 3-4-5 drops in Jund is pretty good as well, especially if it doesn't require you to play suboptimal cards maindeck. Outside of a slightly worse cascade, Zenith actually seems like it could or should be a maindeck staple in a Jund deck. The only thing with playing a Jund deck with a higher mana curve, is you're by default, playing a more controlling midrangey version, instead of a more aggro focused deck with some strong anti-combo/control options.
And just FWIW, this deck just autoloses to any combo deck. Running 3 inquisition of Kozileks in your deck isn't enough to beat a deck like Scapeshift, Hypergenesis, Dredge, or just about any other combo deck that's around right now. The problem with being midrangey in a format where combo decks win as early as turn 3, is that you're never going to out-race them, so your only option is to play the role of control in those matchups.
What do people think about Grim Lavamancer in Jund?
Or Doran + Skinshifter?
Not the best ideas for sure. would you ever want to cascade into lavamancer...no. Doran is W so no go there also.
tarmogoyf
dark confidant
if you could cut these guys with all honesty run skinshifter....now which of the best two drops in the format should I cut for a crappy one??????
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So what does the banning do for the deck? Do you still keep in Punishing Fire if the Fae menace isn't so menacing? What about Maelstorm Pulse now that they are less must-kill permanents (Jace, Bitterblossom, Batterskull)? Perhaps you instead supplement the Zoo match-up instead? What is a good choice for this?
Just for the record. The Overextended tournaments are not a group of really bad players that get together to play online once in a while like the MWS stuff you may be talking about. There are a lot of very good players that play this format with top notch decks. Don't diss what he was saying too quickly. I am not sure you even know what we are talking about when we say Overextended.
Just saying, I know there are obviously bad decks out there in any tourney you go to, but these tournaments have regularly been getting 50 people or more online and they have been free. Soon there will be a modern variant that Blippy is running. See that thread if you want to find out more. It will be a good way for you to find out if your build is good and it is a completely FREE tournament. You can test stuff out and crash and burn, but at least you will find that out in a free tournament rather than in one you end up paying 30 bucks for somewhere.
So what does the banning do for the deck? Do you still keep in Punishing Fire if the Fae menace isn't so menacing? What about Maelstorm Pulse now that they are less must-kill permanents (Jace, Bitterblossom, Batterskull)? Perhaps you instead supplement the Zoo match-up instead? What is a good choice for this?
Punishing fire is still good. As long as creatures are being played, Punishing fire combo will be good. Even vs. zoo, it'll kill lavamancers, it'll kill other creatures when you stack damage with a blocker & fire, and if you get into late-game, it'll be a recurring removal spell since you'll be able to get double usage out of it.
If you have maindeck Finks, the Zoo matchup is actually in Jund's Favor. Jund may be a step slower than Zoo is, but the amount of card advantage it gains as the game drags on makes it hard for Zoo to win a war of attrition.
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Punishing fire is still good. As long as creatures are being played, Punishing fire combo will be good. Even vs. zoo, it'll kill lavamancers, it'll kill other creatures when you stack damage with a blocker & fire, and if you get into late-game, it'll be a recurring removal spell since you'll be able to get double usage out of it.
If you have maindeck Finks, the Zoo matchup is actually in Jund's Favor. Jund may be a step slower than Zoo is, but the amount of card advantage it gains as the game drags on makes it hard for Zoo to win a war of attrition.
yes, I agree. Also I still advocate siege gang commander to help with the zoo match up.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Siege-gang commander won't stop you from them topdecking a burn spell and winning and it won't win you the game it comes into play either which makes it too weak in my opinion. I would just end the curve at bloodbraid elf, which does a lot the turn it comes into play.
In addition playing siege-gang means you need to play more lands, which I don't really think you wan't to do.
Siege-gang commander won't stop you from them topdecking a burn spell and winning and it won't win you the game it comes into play either which makes it too weak in my opinion. I would just end the curve at bloodbraid elf, which does a lot the turn it comes into play.
In addition playing siege-gang means you need to play more lands, which I don't really think you wan't to do.
I was talking about in the list I posted a few pages back. It was from PT Austin 1.x which is very similar to this format. It didn't run dark confidant even though it was legal at the time. It was a trend then. I know confidant has a lot of merit, but the ability to play the "big" game against zoo is nice. Kitchen finks is also nice against zoo, it might need to be main decked now.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Thoughtseize will kill you incredibly fast. Between fetches and ravnica duals ticking down our life incredibly fast, we should really try to spend life on ONLY things that need to be spent on. AKA Bob, fetches and duals.
Especially in a meta filled with Zoo decks (prediction) we will be hit hard turns two and three.
I made this deck in 20 minutes to test against my friend's faeries deck. Had a good start, but faeries took control of the deck really quick. Topdecking a 2nd Broodmate Dragon got me the win. Don't know if it's a viable card in Modern, but I just tried to put my spin on current day Jund. Bloodbraid Elf into a 5/6 Goyf is pretty cool.
I've only played one match so far, and I honestly have no idea what the Modern format is currently looking like. I would like to bump up to 3 Broodmate. Probably add Ghost Quarter, maybe drop 2 Tectonic Edge for a couple. Didn't get to test Chandra out, she only resolved once and then was killed a turn later (pesky faeries). Any input? I'm sure there are some people here who have played a lot of Modern in the past few weeks. It'd be nice to see Jund as a viable Tier 1 deck. I didn't get to play it much back in Standard.
ok i forgot about that old deck. all though that is a kinda meh list. lol at affinity winning although this also not a very compeditive tournament. I can't believe I forgot that fiery zoo existed, but the argument was for it in jund which is bad.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Yeah I doubt he's good in Jund, I just wanted to state that Kavu is viable in other archetypes.
On topic. Jund seems quite lackluster in a Zoo environment. Do you guys think it's possible to get a better match up against it?
I haven't seen a list that might stand a chance.
you need a ton of removal to go with punishing fire. Kitchen finks will help a lot and BBE into other things will help. the list I posted earlier did well against zoo.
Putrid leach is also pretty good against them if they don't have a lightning bot in hand. the only thing I think this list needs is something like siege-gang commander to sure up the midrange just a bit.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
If Jund needs any creature at the 5 slot, it's going to be Demigod of Revenge there, and not Commander. Not that Commander is bad, but Demigod is just better. It really just depends on how "big" you want to go with jund, and whether you want to play Confidant, or just play off 2 for 1 effects intead of card drawing effects.
siege gang commander is so stupid good against zoo though. just 1 or 2 will give you a few % better win %.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
this and he eats a path and you get no value for him. at least siege gang and his tokens can block and if you untap you opponent is in a world of hurt.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
IMO demigod is only really good in the hyperaggressive version that ran fauna shamen to pitch and recur it. Against creatureless deck SGC is about a turn slower, But against aggro decks he should at least be a 2-1 sometimes even better.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Anyhow this would be my build
4 verdant catacombs
2 overgrown tomb
2 blood crypt
3 raging ravine
3 grove of the burnwillows
4 swamp
3 forest
3 mountain
2 sygg, river cutthroat
3 putrid leech
4 tarmogoyf
4 kitchen finks
4 bloodbraid elf
2 siege-gang commander
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 lightning bolt
3 punishing fire
4 blightning
3 maelstrom pulse
Actually, you can run it alongside Elf, as cascading into Zenith just means you're playing "Rampant Growth" for dryad arbor (which isn't by itself terrible). It's not a "nut" cascade ala Elf into Ancestral Visions, but considering the relative power of Zenith, having an "okay" cascade to play a great card seems like it could be a worthwhile tradeoff.
Accelerating into 3-4-5 drops in Jund is pretty good as well, especially if it doesn't require you to play suboptimal cards maindeck. Outside of a slightly worse cascade, Zenith actually seems like it could or should be a maindeck staple in a Jund deck. The only thing with playing a Jund deck with a higher mana curve, is you're by default, playing a more controlling midrangey version, instead of a more aggro focused deck with some strong anti-combo/control options.
And just FWIW, this deck just autoloses to any combo deck. Running 3 inquisition of Kozileks in your deck isn't enough to beat a deck like Scapeshift, Hypergenesis, Dredge, or just about any other combo deck that's around right now. The problem with being midrangey in a format where combo decks win as early as turn 3, is that you're never going to out-race them, so your only option is to play the role of control in those matchups.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
Or Doran + Skinshifter?
Not the best ideas for sure. would you ever want to cascade into lavamancer...no. Doran is W so no go there also.
tarmogoyf
dark confidant
if you could cut these guys with all honesty run skinshifter....now which of the best two drops in the format should I cut for a crappy one??????
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Just saying, I know there are obviously bad decks out there in any tourney you go to, but these tournaments have regularly been getting 50 people or more online and they have been free. Soon there will be a modern variant that Blippy is running. See that thread if you want to find out more. It will be a good way for you to find out if your build is good and it is a completely FREE tournament. You can test stuff out and crash and burn, but at least you will find that out in a free tournament rather than in one you end up paying 30 bucks for somewhere.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Punishing fire is still good. As long as creatures are being played, Punishing fire combo will be good. Even vs. zoo, it'll kill lavamancers, it'll kill other creatures when you stack damage with a blocker & fire, and if you get into late-game, it'll be a recurring removal spell since you'll be able to get double usage out of it.
If you have maindeck Finks, the Zoo matchup is actually in Jund's Favor. Jund may be a step slower than Zoo is, but the amount of card advantage it gains as the game drags on makes it hard for Zoo to win a war of attrition.
yes, I agree. Also I still advocate siege gang commander to help with the zoo match up.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
In addition playing siege-gang means you need to play more lands, which I don't really think you wan't to do.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I was talking about in the list I posted a few pages back. It was from PT Austin 1.x which is very similar to this format. It didn't run dark confidant even though it was legal at the time. It was a trend then. I know confidant has a lot of merit, but the ability to play the "big" game against zoo is nice. Kitchen finks is also nice against zoo, it might need to be main decked now.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Especially in a meta filled with Zoo decks (prediction) we will be hit hard turns two and three.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8122582#post8122582
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
2 Broodmate Dragon
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Putrefy
4 Blightning
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Blood Crypt
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Rootbound Crag
3 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Verdant Catacombs
I've only played one match so far, and I honestly have no idea what the Modern format is currently looking like. I would like to bump up to 3 Broodmate. Probably add Ghost Quarter, maybe drop 2 Tectonic Edge for a couple. Didn't get to test Chandra out, she only resolved once and then was killed a turn later (pesky faeries). Any input? I'm sure there are some people here who have played a lot of Modern in the past few weeks. It'd be nice to see Jund as a viable Tier 1 deck. I didn't get to play it much back in Standard.
First EDH deck http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=415455
NO RUG
Team America
U/W Stoneblade
Zoo
No FOW bant
Modern:
In testing