Umm this is my build for the jund deck if modern will become a more popular and competitive format.... this is also one of my favorite type of deck in standard
Thoughtseize(best point hand removal spell) and Tarmogoyf(best green 2 drop) will be a better replacement for old jund style type of cards,maybe can add bob in too but im running Broodmate Dragons so yeah....
Do you guys feel this achetype will become top tier and can match up with other types of deck such as Zoo or Faerie etc....
Here's my build anyways, planning to cut 2 garrucks and 2 broodmate dragon
I think Jund is kinda moving away from 35 gold cards and 4 savage lands. Mix it up with a lower curve, new cards, older cards, maybe add Bob? Idk, I feel that red, black, and green all have strong players in Modern, so maybe a new type of Jund list will be successful.
Biggest problems I found with Jund are that between Putrid Leech, Confidant, Thoughtseize, and Shocklands, you start to get really suicidal, which places you at a big disadvantage against Zoo and other Red Decks. Outside that, Jund can be pretty good. I like Rise // Fall in Jund as a mini hymn to tourach, and vs. combo decks, you add in more spot discard to help out.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
I actually think that for Modern Inquisition of Kozilek will be better for most decks than Thoughtseize. Inquisition will hit 90% of the cards that you want to hit, but without the lifeloss. That two life (and potentially more if you cast multiples) will be a lot more significant in modern than it is in Legacy because you have the additional pain from shocklands but many aggro decks are just as fast as they are in Legacy. If you fetched into a shockland to play a turn 1 thoughtseize, that is a quarter of your starting health gone. Combine that with lifeloss from Bob and you can have some serious problems. I don't think Putrid Leech is worth running for the same reason, he's too suicidal. In its place I would run Kavu Predator, which is really good with the punishing groves combo and randomly good elsewhere.
I'll echo the sentiments about Thoughtseize, my Jund build has a ton of life loss issues because of the Bobs and manabase to begin with. IoK might be correct, but maybe the correct play is to go ahead and run the Thoughtseize but board out of it entirely against aggro where it's bad. To deal with the life loss, I'm maining two Finks which I can swap out for Sable Stags against control, probably could be more Finks but I'm still in love with Boggart Ramgang.
Also, this probably is one of the decks where Punishing Fire actually is proper since it's a rather grind-you-out style of aggro.
I've heard Boom//Bust suggested as a good card to cascade into, haven't tried that yet. Obviously it's pretty dangerous with Bobs since that's 8 life loss, so it would require giving up the main card advantage engine (though the deck still has plenty of 2 for 1's to keep you ahead.) I've also wondered if Koth might work, since there are enough "mountains" to feed him, but SB space may be too tight to spend that many slots against control.
Essentially, it's a control-burn deck with bobs and gambits for carddrawing. All the burn serve multiple purposes, whether it's to the player w/ synergy from chandra and pain magnification, or to bolt stoneforge mystics, bobs and goyfs. Basically board and hand control, with burn as the main win condition. I didnt include shocklands as that proved to be counterproductive with bobs in as well, and the manabase isn't really that shaky because its mainly R/B.
Thoughts?
EDIT: the fact that the burn is 3 damage, and that bloodbraid has 3 power, is essential due to the pain magnification. This is my reasoning for incinerates over punishing fires, for instance.
Personally, the cmc is a little too high to use Dark Confidant effectively. 19 22 cards with 3cmc or greater? Going to be bolting yourself pretty often.
Thats true, I've found myself hurting me quite a bit, but the card advantage just feels so worth it. As I really need the CA, the alternative could be Phyrexian Arena. However, that messes up my curve, giving me way too many 3drops. I'd like it if it could be switched abit around though, perhaps adding goyf as a replacement 2drop for some 3+drop?
I love Dark Confidant, it just requires a different sort of list. Here's one with the "Confidant Curve". It's not as explosive as the stock Jund list, but it definitely generates a lot more CA thanks to Confidant. Putrefy and Maelstrom Pulse would be great additions, but there's not a lot of room for 3-drops...
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
That list is from the change from Old Extended to Super Standard so no the card choices aren't really adapted to DDT. Personally I think Jund is going to be too slow, the Jund Colors have some good stuff in them but I don't think a tradition build of Jund is going to be good enough.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
That list is from the change from Old Extended to Super Standard so no the card choices aren't really adapted to DDT. Personally I think Jund is going to be too slow, the Jund Colors have some good stuff in them but I don't think a tradition build of Jund is going to be good enough.
PT Austin Had DD as it was in the meta game report. LINK.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
PT Austin was the last tourney with DDT as it was in the meta game report. I though it was after, but well LINK.
PT Austin was actually before DDT even existed, the deck in the top 8 of PT Austin was just straight up DD, DDT didn't evolve for some time afterwords.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Its worth testing though as it should destroy other midrange decks while having a good matchup against control. RDW and Zoo are probably abyssmal though.
Thoughtseize could potentially become Inquisition of Kozilek if the life loss becomes too much of a problem, but I think the curve should be low enough, and the damage and removal suite good enough that it won't be a problem. I'm a bit worried about Lavamancer making Tarmogoyf smaller. Maybe Lavamancer could be replaced by something else. I've been considering Goblin Guide, although the drawback is worse for Jund than for RDW, I think. Although this is a more aggressive build, so it might be an option *shrug*.
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Currently playing:
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
I wouldn't play jund without at least 8 maindeck discard effects. Ideally, you want at least 4 thoughtseize or inquisitions. After that, you're playing either Rise//Fall, Blightning, Stupor, or something of that nature. You NEED to have these in your hand to beat combo decks.
That being said, I agree with one of the previous posters.
Jund is a really strong aggro deck in a format full of combo, fish, and control decks. It's actually probably a better deck than Zoo is against blue based midrange/aggro decks, which is saying quite a bit.
The biggest weakness to it in Modern I've found, is that it's very suicidal, and lacks good answers to RDW and Zoo (even when Finks is in the deck, it's still very suicidal).
As far as positive matchups Jund would presumably have in the format
-Faeries
-Stoneforge Mystic decks
-Elves
-Merfolk
-Teachings
-Eternal Blue/ Gifts/ Next Level blue
-12post (depending on list)
That's not a bad list to start with, but it's hard to say realistically how it would end up.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a 4 color jund deck be much stronger than the traditional. You could presumably gain a lot simply from adding white or blue to the deck, although it could be problematic in considering the already suicidal nature of the deck.
I think if you are planning on running confidants or thoughtsieze you HAVE to run kitchen finks to help offset the life loss. Also I agree with cbus05 with that 7-8 discard is a must, I will also say please dont use rise/fall as it is awful, just stick to inquistion and blightning.
Sygg is a good budget replacement for confidant as he plays nicely with bolt, blightning and bloodbraid elf.
I also feel that the punishing fire + grove of the burnwillows combo is absolutly neccesary as it gives us some late game reach. That being said you might be able to replace it with grim lavamancer who essentially does the same thing.
-Predator, Fires, Burnwillows is amazing. It gives you a 75% or better Fae MU every time. It grinds out long game damage and CA (card advantage) vs control (and keeps JtMS from getting out of hand!). And it auto beats any aggro besides Zoo (ie: aggro that relies on little dudes)
-Kitchen Finks MD is chosen as a source of effective CA vs decks without Path to Exile
-I think the rest of the choices are self explanatory
As far as positive matchups Jund would presumably have in the format
-Faeries
-Stoneforge Mystic decks
-Elves
-Merfolk
-Teachings
-Eternal Blue/ Gifts/ Next Level blue
-12post (depending on list)
Jund at best goes 50/50 with post/tron. unless you have main deck mass you will almost always lose to elves unless they draw really bad. No one is going to play merfolk unless more blue decks get popular.
faeries is a pretty close match up. as for NLU/PLU/ and gifts decks i don't think these will really be around without tron/post lands because they are super slow.
If you can't beat zoo then you might as well just not play this deck. Zoo WILL be the best/most played deck in the format if and when hypergenesis gets the ban hammer. Also hypergeneis is a terrible match up.
Quote from mirrislegend »
-Predator, Fires, Burnwillows is amazing. It gives you a 75% or better Fae MU every time. It grinds out long game damage and CA (card advantage) vs control (and keeps JtMS from getting out of hand!). And it auto beats any aggro besides Zoo (ie: aggro that relies on little dudes)
-Kitchen Finks MD is chosen as a source of effective CA vs decks without Path to Exile
-I think the rest of the choices are self explanatory
Predator is kinda meh as most of the time he will be small thus not worth inclusion over goyf. Punishing groves combo is actually very good against faeries, but so is Great Sable Stag. I think he should be an auto-include at least in sideboard. Bob is not worth it in this deck. Look at old 1.x decks they never played bob.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Predator is the only creature we have that could possibly be bigger than an opponent's mid- or late-game beatstick. He obviously starts small, but wins games so often. Bait removal with other creatures, stick Predator, and win.
Predator is the only creature we have that could possibly be bigger than an opponent's mid- or late-game beatstick. He obviously starts small, but wins games so often. Bait removal with other creatures, stick Predator, and win.
i just had to go to the bathroom after that one lol. you have 3-4 cards in the deck that make that condition happen.
look a deck that has won something, do you see kavu predator in here? no because it sucks.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Kavu Predator has been tearing up Overextended in decks such as RUG, Zoo, and Junk so he's definitely worth considering. Jund is going to have to be streamlined from the multicolor goodstuff deck that It was back in standard. It needs a lower curve with fewer multicolored cards so it can afford to play basics and lower the amount of life lost from fixing mana. Sprouting Thrinax is definitely going to have to go, 3 mana 3/3's in 3 colors aren't going to be good enough.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Kavu Predator has been tearing up Overextended in decks such as RUG, Zoo, and Junk so he's definitely worth considering. Jund is going to have to be streamlined from the multicolor goodstuff deck that It was back in standard. It needs a lower curve with fewer multicolored cards so it can afford to play basics and lower the amount of life lost from fixing mana. Sprouting Thrinax is definitely going to have to go, 3 mana 3/3's in 3 colors aren't going to be good enough.
the list from above was in 1.x and a meta that was tougher than this one. Just because a deck wins in MWS,cockatrice,ect does not mean its good. the player level is so stupidly low on these things. The other day I played a guy who was playing dragonstrorm without dragons in his deck. wth.
Kavu predator is a 2/2 that will rarely ever get beyond that. He failed in standard, he failed in 1.x. he will never be a PTQ level creature.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
the list from above was in 1.x and a meta that was tougher than this one. Just because a deck wins in MWS,cockatrice,ect does not mean its good. the player level is so stupidly low on these things. The other day I played a guy who was playing dragonstrorm without dragons in his deck. wth.
Kavu predator is a 2/2 that will rarely ever get beyond that. He failed in standard, he failed in 1.x. he will never be a PTQ level creature.
He's seeing some plays sometimes. He's quite good on his own but he really shines with grove of the burnwillows.
Thoughtseize(best point hand removal spell) and Tarmogoyf(best green 2 drop) will be a better replacement for old jund style type of cards,maybe can add bob in too but im running Broodmate Dragons so yeah....
Do you guys feel this achetype will become top tier and can match up with other types of deck such as Zoo or Faerie etc....
Here's my build anyways, planning to cut 2 garrucks and 2 broodmate dragon
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Putrid Leech
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Blightning
4 Punishing Fires
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Dragonskull Summit
3 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Stomping Ground
1 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
As a deck, it's good vs. decks like Stoneforge, Faeries, while still being decent vs. Combo and Control matchups.
4x Thoughtseize
4x Punishing Fire
3x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Putrefy
4x Blightning (or Rise // Fall if you wanna try something potentially better)
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Putrid Leech
4x Dark Confidant
4x Kitchen Finks
4x Bloodbraid Elf
Biggest problems I found with Jund are that between Putrid Leech, Confidant, Thoughtseize, and Shocklands, you start to get really suicidal, which places you at a big disadvantage against Zoo and other Red Decks. Outside that, Jund can be pretty good. I like Rise // Fall in Jund as a mini hymn to tourach, and vs. combo decks, you add in more spot discard to help out.
Also, this probably is one of the decks where Punishing Fire actually is proper since it's a rather grind-you-out style of aggro.
I've heard Boom//Bust suggested as a good card to cascade into, haven't tried that yet. Obviously it's pretty dangerous with Bobs since that's 8 life loss, so it would require giving up the main card advantage engine (though the deck still has plenty of 2 for 1's to keep you ahead.) I've also wondered if Koth might work, since there are enough "mountains" to feed him, but SB space may be too tight to spend that many slots against control.
Personally, the cmc is a little too high to use Dark Confidant effectively.
1922 cards with 3cmc or greater? Going to be bolting yourself pretty often.I love Dark Confidant, it just requires a different sort of list. Here's one with the "Confidant Curve". It's not as explosive as the stock Jund list, but it definitely generates a lot more CA thanks to Confidant. Putrefy and Maelstrom Pulse would be great additions, but there's not a lot of room for 3-drops...
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Dark Confidant
4 Terminate
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Go for the Throat
2 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Punishing Fire
1 Skinshifter
1 Putrid Leech
2 Blightning
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Raging Ravine
2 Blood Crypt
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Rootbound Crag
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Eternal Witness
4 Ravenous Trap
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Forest
1 Graven Cairns
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Mountain
3 Raging Ravine
1 Reflecting Pool
4 Savage Lands
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Great Sable Stag
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Putrid Leech
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Bituminous Blast
4 Blightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Punishing Fire
1 Great Sable Stag
4 Jund Charm
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Smother
2 Thought Hemorrhage
3 Thoughtseize
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
PT Austin Had DD as it was in the meta game report. LINK.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
PT Austin was actually before DDT even existed, the deck in the top 8 of PT Austin was just straight up DD, DDT didn't evolve for some time afterwords.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Twillight Mire
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
Spells -14
4 Punishing Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rise/Fall
2 Terminate
Its worth testing though as it should destroy other midrange decks while having a good matchup against control. RDW and Zoo are probably abyssmal though.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
5 Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Stomping Ground
3 Blood Crypt
3 Swamp
2 Raging Ravine
1 Forest
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Maelstrom Pulse
Thoughtseize could potentially become Inquisition of Kozilek if the life loss becomes too much of a problem, but I think the curve should be low enough, and the damage and removal suite good enough that it won't be a problem. I'm a bit worried about Lavamancer making Tarmogoyf smaller. Maybe Lavamancer could be replaced by something else. I've been considering Goblin Guide, although the drawback is worse for Jund than for RDW, I think. Although this is a more aggressive build, so it might be an option *shrug*.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
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That being said, I agree with one of the previous posters.
Jund is a really strong aggro deck in a format full of combo, fish, and control decks. It's actually probably a better deck than Zoo is against blue based midrange/aggro decks, which is saying quite a bit.
The biggest weakness to it in Modern I've found, is that it's very suicidal, and lacks good answers to RDW and Zoo (even when Finks is in the deck, it's still very suicidal).
As far as positive matchups Jund would presumably have in the format
-Faeries
-Stoneforge Mystic decks
-Elves
-Merfolk
-Teachings
-Eternal Blue/ Gifts/ Next Level blue
-12post (depending on list)
That's not a bad list to start with, but it's hard to say realistically how it would end up.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a 4 color jund deck be much stronger than the traditional. You could presumably gain a lot simply from adding white or blue to the deck, although it could be problematic in considering the already suicidal nature of the deck.
Inquisition also hits most of the cards in the format.
And leech doesn't seem entirely necessary if you have Tarmogoyf.
Sygg is a good budget replacement for confidant as he plays nicely with bolt, blightning and bloodbraid elf.
I also feel that the punishing fire + grove of the burnwillows combo is absolutly neccesary as it gives us some late game reach. That being said you might be able to replace it with grim lavamancer who essentially does the same thing.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kavu Predator
3 Putrid Leech
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
3 Blightning
3 Thoughtseize
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
-Predator, Fires, Burnwillows is amazing. It gives you a 75% or better Fae MU every time. It grinds out long game damage and CA (card advantage) vs control (and keeps JtMS from getting out of hand!). And it auto beats any aggro besides Zoo (ie: aggro that relies on little dudes)
-Kitchen Finks MD is chosen as a source of effective CA vs decks without Path to Exile
-I think the rest of the choices are self explanatory
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
If you can't beat zoo then you might as well just not play this deck. Zoo WILL be the best/most played deck in the format if and when hypergenesis gets the ban hammer. Also hypergeneis is a terrible match up.
Predator is kinda meh as most of the time he will be small thus not worth inclusion over goyf. Punishing groves combo is actually very good against faeries, but so is Great Sable Stag. I think he should be an auto-include at least in sideboard. Bob is not worth it in this deck. Look at old 1.x decks they never played bob.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
i just had to go to the bathroom after that one lol. you have 3-4 cards in the deck that make that condition happen.
look a deck that has won something, do you see kavu predator in here? no because it sucks.
3 Forest
1 Graven Cairns
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Mountain
3 Raging Ravine
1 Reflecting Pool
4 Savage Lands
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Great Sable Stag
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Putrid Leech
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Bituminous Blast
4 Blightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Punishing Fire
1 Great Sable Stag
4 Jund Charm
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Smother
2 Thought Hemorrhage
3 Thoughtseize
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
the list from above was in 1.x and a meta that was tougher than this one. Just because a deck wins in MWS,cockatrice,ect does not mean its good. the player level is so stupidly low on these things. The other day I played a guy who was playing dragonstrorm without dragons in his deck. wth.
Kavu predator is a 2/2 that will rarely ever get beyond that. He failed in standard, he failed in 1.x. he will never be a PTQ level creature.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
He's seeing some plays sometimes. He's quite good on his own but he really shines with grove of the burnwillows.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=1462&d=211568