I actually don't think you need more hate for Loam (although I do dislike Spell Pierce in this deck, as you're already really, really good at taking down non-creature spells.) As long as you can counter Loam itself enough times, you can completely choke off the Loam deck's card advantage engine while your creatures peck them to death. You should try out Dispel- it's really good at fighting stuff like Gifts Ungiven.
I board out Mistbind Cliques against Zoo and Jund because they usually bring in Combust and Volcanic Fallout. The Steel Sabotage against Twin was for Spellskite, Defense Grid and bouncing my Shackles against Grudge.
Speaking of choking, I'm probably going to run -1 Steel Sabotage +1 Annul in the Sideboard. Dispel sounds sweet, I'll try it out. I need something for the Jund matchup, which is worrying me. The games I lost were like t1 discard, t2 again discard, manland, t3 bob or liliana
How impressed were you with Flashfreeze? I haven't tried it, but did consider it. My fear was that in the decks I'd bring it in against I was often losing to black or blue cards.
Flashfreeze was primary thought for Boros, Zoo and Burn where they act as a substitute for Remand, which suck in those matchups. I don't know if I would bring them against Jund, probably not. But it's a nice little one-off
Has anyone considered Surgical Extraction? I was thinking of SB'ing it, but honestly... I wouldn't mind maindecking a few. Counter something useful, then immediately extract it? In match-ups like Jund, where they can lay down a deadly Thoughtseize or Inqusition of Kozelik before I even drop a land, I immediately want to get rid of those. Seems to be pretty solid against any match-up:
Tron - Tectonic Edge on a piece of Urzatron, followed by an Extraction. Or on Emrakul before his ability triggers.
Boros - get rid of those damn fetchlands because of all that Landfall.
Caw Blade - that Snapcaster Mage can get awfully annoying
Jund - in response to those devasting turn one plays. Pretty much good against card in this match up.
And, well, as I said, once you counter something, immediately pay the 2 life and extract it if it's a threat.
What are folks' thoughts about Rune Snag? I've been playing it in place of Mana Leak and it has done quite nicely for me. Of course, if we start to see a lot more graveyard hate (if loam decks surge, for example) it will obviously be weaker, but I like the fact that Rune Snag tends to have more staying power later in games than Mana Leak. I found myself often drawing Mana Leak in mid-late game and finding that it was useless, whereas a Rune Snag mid-game that might make an opponent spend 4 or 6 more mana can still be effective. Plus, we aren't playing Snapcaster Mage, which is a typical bar to playing Rune Snag over Mana Leak.
I suppose you could also play the two cards together.
Has anyone considered Surgical Extraction? I was thinking of SB'ing it, but honestly... I wouldn't mind maindecking a few. Counter something useful, then immediately extract it? In match-ups like Jund, where they can lay down a deadly Thoughtseize or Inqusition of Kozelik before I even drop a land, I immediately want to get rid of those. Seems to be pretty solid against any match-up:
Tron - Tectonic Edge on a piece of Urzatron, followed by an Extraction. Or on Emrakul before his ability triggers.
Boros - get rid of those damn fetchlands because of all that Landfall.
Caw Blade - that Snapcaster Mage can get awfully annoying
Jund - in response to those devasting turn one plays. Pretty much good against card in this match up.
And, well, as I said, once you counter something, immediately pay the 2 life and extract it if it's a threat.
I ran 2 extractions in my board during the Boise Ptq and never used it the entire day.
Rune Snag is bad. It's only "better" when you've cast your third, and in Faeries, you're unlikely to cast 3.
I don't know if I understand your comment. I assume you are looking at it from the point of view that after two casts of Mana Leak versus 2 casts of Rune Snag, you've forced the opponent to spend 6 extra mana potentially? However, I'm not looking at it from the point of view of how much mana OVERALL you are forcing the opponent to spend extra, but rather how much extra you are forcing the opponent to use during stages of a game.
The second Rune Snag you cast forces the opponent to pay 4 extra, which is better than Mana Leak, assuming you haven't been hit with graveyard hate. You will likely be casting the first Rune Snag early in the game, where the 2 of Rune Snag compared to the 3 of Mana Leak won't be as big a deal. I also have cast 3 in a single match fairly often -- games with this deck often take a while.
The bigger question is whether there is enough graveyard hate in the meta to make the whole consideration moot. I wasn't finding that the case in the recent past, but maybe things are going to change.
To the earlier comment, it is obviously a 4-of if you are playing it. I've been playing it instead of Mana Leak, but you could replace a few of the other counters (likely Remand and Spell Pierce, as you noted) to fit the 4 in.
What do you think of Hurkyl's Recall in the board for affinity? It is instant and only costs two and hits their etched champion.
Against Affinity Hurkyl's Recall reads: "Fog + Timewalk". I don't see why you wouldn't want it in the board given that Affinity seems to be one of the worse MUs.
The issue is that they can often just replay everything in a single turn anyway. Affinity is very "all in" on it's 12 2 drop bombs (Overseer, Ravager, Cranial Plating) and those are by far the most important things to stop the deck from casting. Because of that, Steel Sabotage tends to be better because it will stop their best cards from even hitting the table, and acts as a bounce spell in a pinch.
Well, I picked the deck up pretty late in the Modern season (played Martyr-Proc for 4 months), but here it what I'm taking to PTQ Lincoln this saturday:
I maindecked 2 Snapcaster Mage over 2 Spellskite (moved to the sideboard). It seems like I'm always just letting Spellskite sit in my hand the entire game until I have enough free mana to throw him down and still have room for counterspells. I feel like the only match-ups I really need him is Jund and Boros. Other than those decks, I think I can handle the occasional Path to Exile.
i'm not sure about conclave: an enter-tapped land it's simply not good in a deck where you want to remain with untapped land earlier as you can to cast your threat eot asap, and 2 mana for activation are too much in the first turns
it's a late game card, and by the time it's viable or good in the game you should already have the control over the board or you're dead.
while i agree with the choice of 2 edge and 1 quarter, in my experience manlands are a difficult problem to solve, and also you can screw the mana base of the oppo.
i have a question about the number of land (23)?, in my meta everybody plays 25 land in MUF which i think it's too much, we are a tempo deck not exactly control and a too large mana base imho it's useless...
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
i have a question about the number of land (23)?, in my meta everybody plays 25 land in MUF which i think it's too much, we are a tempo deck not exactly control and a too large mana base imho it's useless...
i'm not sure about conclave: an enter-tapped land it's simply not good in a deck where you want to remain with untapped land earlier as you can to cast your threat eot asap, and 2 mana for activation are too much in the first turns
it's a late game card, and by the time it's viable or good in the game you should already have the control over the board or you're dead.
while i agree with the choice of 2 edge and 1 quarter, in my experience manlands are a difficult problem to solve, and also you can screw the mana base of the oppo.
i have a question about the number of land (23)?, in my meta everybody plays 25 land in MUF which i think it's too much, we are a tempo deck not exactly control and a too large mana base imho it's useless...
With 6-10 lands being spells too, 25 is perfect. Far too often people try to cut lands from decks. This is always the wrong choice.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Mono-U Fae and RUG Fae always want to make their land drops, as reliably being able to cast Cryptic Command on Turn 4 is pretty important. For that reason, I'll never dip below 25 lands.
I like Faerie Conclave as Mutavault 5+ that actually taps for blue mana and flies. If I'm on the play, it's often my Turn 1 land drop. (If I'm on the draw, I'm too busy holding up Spell Snare.)
What does everyone think about maindecking 2 feast and famine? It makes some 50/50 match up's better and gives us much better card advantage than the ninja card people like to run, also with mistbind the synergy is bonkers
my doubt was that because i think that in this deck, without cantrip, the only problem is holding dead card in hand, and virtually the only dead cards are the island.
when you have 3 land you can survive 2-3 turn without the 4th land drop because in the meanwhile you draw cards that actually buy you time (unless you draw only command and mistbind for 3 turn...).
for those reason i'm thinking of taking out 1 island or maybe 2...
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
my doubt was that because i think that in this deck, without cantrip, the only problem is holding dead card in hand, and virtually the only dead cards are the island.
when you have 3 land you can survive 2-3 turn without the 4th land drop because in the meanwhile you draw cards that actually buy you time (unless you draw only command and mistbind for 3 turn...).
for those reason i'm thinking of taking out 1 island or maybe 2...
I think you'll find that too often you'll want to hit your 4th land on T4, and fail to do so. Cryptic Command and Mistbind are probably the strongest cards in your deck (they give you the biggest tempo-boost, anyways); And it's fairly important that you can at the very least threaten to play either of them by the time T4 rolls around.
That's just my experience with decks with a very important T4. When Jund was in standard I ran 25 lands with Rampant Growth to ensure BBE (strongest card in the deck) came down on T4 at the latest. And honestly 24 lands was too few.
But, feel free to test 24 lands; I would highly advise against going down to 23 though.
25 lands is essential to hit Cryptics and Mistbinds on time plus have enough islands for Vedalken Shackles. You have to hit land drops for the first 5 turns consistently. Land drops are essential for control decks. Even this is tempo control, your powerful plays come online turn 4+.
Affinity scares me so much, basically, if they are on the play and have any good hand at all there is nothing I can do. Even post board, it is still heavily in their favor.
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Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Zoo
-3 Remand
-2 Mistbind Clique
-1 Scion of Oona
+3 Threads of Disloyalty
+1 Flashfreeze
+2 Ratchet Bomb
Living End
-1 Repeal
-4 Spell Snare
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Flashfreeze
+2 Spell Pierce
Twin
-1 Repeal
-3 Remand
+1 Flashfreeze
+1 Steel Sabotage
+2 Ratchet Bomb
Jund
-3 Remand
-1 Repeal
-2 Mistbind Clique
-1 Scion of Oona
+3 Threads of Disloyalty
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
+2 Spell Pierce
+1 Ratchet Bomb
Loam
-2 Scion of Oona
-1 Shackles
-3 Remand
+3 Threads
+1 Flashfreeze
+2 Relic of Progenitus
I board out Mistbind Cliques against Zoo and Jund because they usually bring in Combust and Volcanic Fallout. The Steel Sabotage against Twin was for Spellskite, Defense Grid and bouncing my Shackles against Grudge.
Speaking of choking, I'm probably going to run -1 Steel Sabotage +1 Annul in the Sideboard. Dispel sounds sweet, I'll try it out. I need something for the Jund matchup, which is worrying me. The games I lost were like t1 discard, t2 again discard, manland, t3 bob or liliana
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Tron - Tectonic Edge on a piece of Urzatron, followed by an Extraction. Or on Emrakul before his ability triggers.
Boros - get rid of those damn fetchlands because of all that Landfall.
Caw Blade - that Snapcaster Mage can get awfully annoying
Jund - in response to those devasting turn one plays. Pretty much good against card in this match up.
And, well, as I said, once you counter something, immediately pay the 2 life and extract it if it's a threat.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
I suppose you could also play the two cards together.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
I ran 2 extractions in my board during the Boise Ptq and never used it the entire day.
I don't know if I understand your comment. I assume you are looking at it from the point of view that after two casts of Mana Leak versus 2 casts of Rune Snag, you've forced the opponent to spend 6 extra mana potentially? However, I'm not looking at it from the point of view of how much mana OVERALL you are forcing the opponent to spend extra, but rather how much extra you are forcing the opponent to use during stages of a game.
The second Rune Snag you cast forces the opponent to pay 4 extra, which is better than Mana Leak, assuming you haven't been hit with graveyard hate. You will likely be casting the first Rune Snag early in the game, where the 2 of Rune Snag compared to the 3 of Mana Leak won't be as big a deal. I also have cast 3 in a single match fairly often -- games with this deck often take a while.
The bigger question is whether there is enough graveyard hate in the meta to make the whole consideration moot. I wasn't finding that the case in the recent past, but maybe things are going to change.
To the earlier comment, it is obviously a 4-of if you are playing it. I've been playing it instead of Mana Leak, but you could replace a few of the other counters (likely Remand and Spell Pierce, as you noted) to fit the 4 in.
Against Affinity Hurkyl's Recall reads: "Fog + Timewalk". I don't see why you wouldn't want it in the board given that Affinity seems to be one of the worse MUs.
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Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
4 Scion of Oona
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Dispel
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Mutavault
1 Faerie Conclave
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
15 Island
3 Steel Sabotage
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Dispel
I maindecked 2 Snapcaster Mage over 2 Spellskite (moved to the sideboard). It seems like I'm always just letting Spellskite sit in my hand the entire game until I have enough free mana to throw him down and still have room for counterspells. I feel like the only match-ups I really need him is Jund and Boros. Other than those decks, I think I can handle the occasional Path to Exile.
I may +1 Faerie Conclave as well.
Woooooooooooooo.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
it's a late game card, and by the time it's viable or good in the game you should already have the control over the board or you're dead.
while i agree with the choice of 2 edge and 1 quarter, in my experience manlands are a difficult problem to solve, and also you can screw the mana base of the oppo.
i have a question about the number of land (23)?, in my meta everybody plays 25 land in MUF which i think it's too much, we are a tempo deck not exactly control and a too large mana base imho it's useless...
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I count Tectronic edges as spells, not lands.
With 6-10 lands being spells too, 25 is perfect. Far too often people try to cut lands from decks. This is always the wrong choice.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I like Faerie Conclave as Mutavault 5+ that actually taps for blue mana and flies. If I'm on the play, it's often my Turn 1 land drop. (If I'm on the draw, I'm too busy holding up Spell Snare.)
when you have 3 land you can survive 2-3 turn without the 4th land drop because in the meanwhile you draw cards that actually buy you time (unless you draw only command and mistbind for 3 turn...).
for those reason i'm thinking of taking out 1 island or maybe 2...
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I think you'll find that too often you'll want to hit your 4th land on T4, and fail to do so. Cryptic Command and Mistbind are probably the strongest cards in your deck (they give you the biggest tempo-boost, anyways); And it's fairly important that you can at the very least threaten to play either of them by the time T4 rolls around.
That's just my experience with decks with a very important T4. When Jund was in standard I ran 25 lands with Rampant Growth to ensure BBE (strongest card in the deck) came down on T4 at the latest. And honestly 24 lands was too few.
But, feel free to test 24 lands; I would highly advise against going down to 23 though.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
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