Clearly youre very uninformed considering caw won a 155 person ptq 2 days before that, had 2 top 8s in the mocs, and has won multiple premier events.
So you agree that they both have decent tournament showings?
They're both good decks; coming into a thread saying "This deck is better play this, lol" is not constructive to any discussion that leads anywhere or changes anyone's mind about anything.
You go play Caw-Blade and people will continue to play Fae.
Clearly youre very uninformed considering caw won a 155 person ptq 2 days before that, had 2 top 8s in the mocs, and has won multiple premier events.
A competent Fae player will very often beat caw. Vedalken Shackles and the advantage you get from playing creatures who counter, peek, and time walk are what make this deck powerful. The other thing that makes this deck great is hte manabase which is extremely consistent and very often doesn't interfere with the overall game plan like the mana can occasionally do in other control style decks.
Steel sabotage and it's not close. It's not dead if their artifact is already on the table. Annul, what enchantments are you countering, Pyromancer ascension? You have snares for that, and that matchup is already really good.
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Winner of the MTGSalvation Standard Championships III & IV.
if you're running Spellskites you already have a really good answer to Twin.
And Cryptic Command is online before they can combo.
and you have V. Clique, too.
Shackles are also funny versus Twin. On that note Shackles are now out of stock everywhere and have jumped $3. I may have called that a week ago.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
In regards to Faeries vs. Caw-Blade, Faeries plays tempo much more efficiently than caw blade does.
Caw blade does get a little bit of inevitability with squadron hawks, but it's very mana inefficient, and force you to tap out every turn.
Faeries have an awesome manabase, with mutavault and Faerie Conclave being able to take precedence. Faeries have a lot more tricks they can play with the stack, and are generally a better Vedalken Shackles deck than caw blade is (if they're playing shackles of course).
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
Caw blade does get a little bit of inevitability with squadron hawks, but it's very mana inefficient, and force you to tap out every turn.
When I play Caw-Blade against combo, I always, always leave counterspell/removal mana up. This means I never entirely tap out. However, it does often make me cast 1 Squadron Hawk per turn or leave me cautiously unable to cast anything without Flash until I hit 4 lands if all I have is a Remand. Playing Tiago as an Ashcoat Bear (with a worse butt) is actually a pretty good play against combo.
I've gotten so cautious lately that I might not even cast Sword of Feast and Famine until I hit 7 mana, in case I get blown out by Bolt and they combo off.
When I play Caw-Blade against combo, I always, always leave counterspell/removal mana up. This means I never entirely tap out. However, it does often make me cast 1 Squadron Hawk per turn or leave me cautiously unable to cast anything without Flash until I hit 4 lands if all I have is a Remand. Playing Tiago as an Ashcoat Bear (with a worse butt) is actually a pretty good play against combo.
I've gotten so cautious lately that I might not even cast Sword of Feast and Famine until I hit 7 mana, in case I get blown out by Bolt and they combo off.
Yeah, it's not to say that Caw Blade is bad against combo decks, or bad in general, but there are some very significant advantages faeries have over decks like Caw Blade. Being able to play a deck entirely at instant speed with a ton of combat tricks & stack interaction on the creature end is a big advantage in the hands of a highly skilled player.
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So has anyone played this deck? I am almost done assembling it in the paper world (I need to more Scions) but it seems solid. One thing that gets me is hexproof guys if they resolve. I cant seem to deal with them effectively (like Saint Traft). But I admit I need ALOT more practice. I also have serious problems with Jund because of all the discard. I see it so much I might add a few Spell Pierce maindeck just to have a better game 1.
I played fae at the Boise PTQ and lost in the finals to a tempered steel affinity list.
From what I remember I played against Boom/Bust Zoo, tokens (my loss in the swiss), martyr, aggro loam, jund (we drew due to time as he won game one off the back of maindecked darkblasts), bant, and caw. That put me at 7th place with 5-1-1.
I beat twin in the quarters, red affinity in the semis, and in the finals I was getting close to taking control with shackles despite my opponent having two cranial platings in play. He drew the second white source he needed to lay tempered steel and that swung the game in his favor. Game two his hand was almost empty on turn 1. It was over as he was swinging for 8 on turn two and I failed to see land number four. The matchup was horrid and much worse than regular affinity due to tempered steel and the explosiveness of frogmites in conjunction of their low costing cards.
So has anyone played this deck? I am almost done assembling it in the paper world (I need to more Scions) but it seems solid. One thing that gets me is hexproof guys if they resolve. I cant seem to deal with them effectively (like Saint Traft). But I admit I need ALOT more practice. I also have serious problems with Jund because of all the discard. I see it so much I might add a few Spell Pierce maindeck just to have a better game 1.
The Fae can handle Traft like a lot of other decks handle Traft--counter him or get him blocked. Unfortunately, keeping a resolved Traft at bay does kill your tempo, whether that's leaving behind V. Clique, Mistbind Clique (ouch; it's a big beater), a Mutavault, or some Faerie with a Scion of Oona out. Team Traft probably plays Path to Exile, though, so you might not be able to do this forever.
Thrun, though? Auuuuugh. Curse Thrun; I can't think of a single viable way to handle him. Scratch that. About the only way any Fae variant can viably handle him is Sword of Feast and Famine, which is a nonbo with Scion of Oona, so it might not be to your taste. But if he picks up a Sword himself, you're a goner.
OK. Thanks for the replies. I've been messing with a few monoblue tempo decks. This merfolk and a monoblue delver tempo deck. I'm trying to decide which of the three seem more in line with Meta and playstyle.
I'm still stunned at the lack of support in these forums for this deck. 5 PTQ wins, countless top 8's and a slew of 4-0's in dailies.
Is the deck just to expensive to play? I know that the Cliques are pricey and the Shackles aren't cheap. You would have an easier time getting someones kidney rather than their Mutavault. The rest of the deck is really easy to obtain though.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Cryptic Commands are rather pricey too. But overall, this deck doesnt cost as much compared to Jund + Caw Blade. I personally have a "money/budget" tier in my head with the highest tier being the least expensive competitve decks.
As for the lack of suppoty, people may feel that fast decks like Affinity or any RDW can overwhelm Fairies easily, which may repel players. It also receives some Splinter Twin splash hate too (Combust, Volcanic Fallout, etc)
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
No SB yet.
Maybe -1 Dismember and -1 Inquisition for +2 Spell Snare?
I'd prefer another Island over Faerie Conclave; or Creeping Tarpit if you insist on a 5th manland; But I mean if it's good for you in testing it's good for you in testing =P.
Basically, have you playtested with it yet? How many games and what matchups? What things do you like/dislike about the splash?
I'd prefer another Island over Faerie Conclave; or Creeping Tarpit if you insist on a 5th manland; But I mean if it's good for you in testing it's good for you in testing =P.
Basically, have you playtested with it yet? How many games and what matchups? What things do you like/dislike about the splash?
And why black over red? (for the splash color)
Mono Blue runs 6 manlands. Can I ask why this deck isn't running Spell Snare?
22 lands is rather ambitious. I like black more than most people do but without Bitterblossom I just don't see why you would add black.
On a different note I would like to address the Volcanic Fallout myth. Other archetypes are jamming this card in their decks and assuming that is all they need to win. If your running the 6 manland package you shouldn't get blown out by Fallout. Seriously how is this card going to stop Fae if you play around it? I just keep seeing people post about how it kills the deck in other threads.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Mono Blue runs 6 manlands. Can I ask why this deck isn't running Spell Snare?
22 lands is rather ambitious. I like black more than most people do but without Bitterblossom I just don't see why you would add black.
On a different note I would like to address the Volcanic Fallout myth. Other archetypes are jamming this card in their decks and assuming that is all they need to win. If your running the 6 manland package you shouldn't get blown out by Fallout. Seriously how is this card going to stop Fae if you play around it? I just keep seeing people post about how it kills the deck in other threads.
On Volcanic Fallout;
It does make Mistbind Clique 'fizzle'. And it can be something of a anti-counterspell if you use it in response to a SSS. And essentially it does kill every creature in the deck aside from Mistbind / Spellskite.
It does make Mistbind Clique 'fizzle'. And it can be something of a anti-counterspell if you use it in response to a SSS. And essentially it does kill every creature in the deck aside from Mistbind / Spellskite.
And Mutavault and Conclave. I have had a friend trying to make it work in Affinity and Jund. Most times they kill 1 maybe 2 Faeries and 1 or more of their guys. Never has the card "won" the game. It still doesn't stop Shackles from stealing the board. I just play around the card and don't really worry about it.
On the countering of SSS. When do people have 3 extra mana laying around to avoid SSS countering their spell? I understand that you can respond by blowing up the Faeries in response but the Faeries player has to be rather terrible for that to happen.
It also does make Mistbind Fizzle but if you see 2 red mana sources open and blindly play your Clique you deserve to get blown out. I make said statements based off of competent magic players playing each other.
I'm not pointing this at you but the people who follow the idea that Fallout is to this deck what Leyline of the Void is to Dredge. To many times I see dream scenarios spoken as the norm with hate cards. I hold this true of the people who play 1 Relic in their mains in Fae. I have never good stories about the singleton. Most people just play it because it was in the deck when the first PTQ winning list won. I find that it is the first card I side out in most matches. Aggro Loam being the exception of course. However a well placed Surgical Extraction is far superior to Relic in that instance.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
And Mutavault and Conclave. I have had a friend trying to make it work in Affinity and Jund. Most times they kill 1 maybe 2 Faeries and 1 or more of their guys. Never has the card "won" the game. It still doesn't stop Shackles from stealing the board. I just play around the card and don't really worry about it.
On the countering of SSS. When do people have 3 extra mana laying around to avoid SSS countering their spell? I understand that you can respond by blowing up the Faeries in response but the Faeries player has to be rather terrible for that to happen.
It also does make Mistbind Fizzle but if you see 2 red mana sources open and blindly play your Clique you deserve to get blown out. I make said statements based off of competent magic players playing each other.
I'm not pointing this at you but the people who follow the idea that Fallout is to this deck what Leyline of the Void is to Dredge. To many times I see dream scenarios spoken as the norm with hate cards. I hold this true of the people who play 1 Relic in their mains in Fae. I have never good stories about the singleton. Most people just play it because it was in the deck when the first PTQ winning list won. I find that it is the first card I side out in most matches. Aggro Loam being the exception of course. However a well placed Surgical Extraction is far superior to Relic in that instance.
I guess I should've said "i agree, it's not a complete blow-out but it does..." as a preamble to my post for clarities sake.
As you've pointed out even if you do manage to have a Fae player walk into Mistbinding when you have V.Fallout mana clearly up you still have to worry about your board being dominated by Shackles.
And I think Fallout manages to kill most common played relevant creatures in the format, anyways.
I guess I should've said "i agree, it's not a complete blow-out but it does..." as a preamble to my post for clarities sake.
As you've pointed out even if you do manage to have a Fae player walk into Mistbinding when you have V.Fallout mana clearly up you still have to worry about your board being dominated by Shackles.
And I think Fallout manages to kill most common played relevant creatures in the format, anyways.
It does a number on Tokens.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I usually board out the Mistind Cliques against Boros and Burn because they just aren't good, so I couldn't care less about Volcanic Fallouts. Of course they are solid (uncounterable source of damage is always nice to have) but there are much better cards to board against us.
I didn't like the Spell Pierce in the Sideboard, they were for Jund but they didn't really help. I would probably play more grave hate instead for the Loam decks that are starting to show up.
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So you agree that they both have decent tournament showings?
They're both good decks; coming into a thread saying "This deck is better play this, lol" is not constructive to any discussion that leads anywhere or changes anyone's mind about anything.
You go play Caw-Blade and people will continue to play Fae.
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A competent Fae player will very often beat caw. Vedalken Shackles and the advantage you get from playing creatures who counter, peek, and time walk are what make this deck powerful. The other thing that makes this deck great is hte manabase which is extremely consistent and very often doesn't interfere with the overall game plan like the mana can occasionally do in other control style decks.
18 Island
4 Mutavault
3 Tectonic Edge
Creatures 17
4 Mistbind Clique
4 Scion of Oona
2 Spellskite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
3 Vedalken Shackles
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dismember
1 Dispel
1 Jace Beleren
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Spellskite
2 Steel Sabotage
3 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Wurmcoil Engine
This is a recent T8 list seen at GP Lincoln;
One of the things that strikes me as odd is the 1x Wurmcoil Engine. Seems pretty sweet with Academy Ruins though.
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My DCI ELO Ratings - May they rest in peace :'(
if you're running Spellskites you already have a really good answer to Twin.
And Cryptic Command is online before they can combo.
and you have V. Clique, too.
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Shackles are also funny versus Twin. On that note Shackles are now out of stock everywhere and have jumped $3. I may have called that a week ago.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Caw blade does get a little bit of inevitability with squadron hawks, but it's very mana inefficient, and force you to tap out every turn.
Faeries have an awesome manabase, with mutavault and Faerie Conclave being able to take precedence. Faeries have a lot more tricks they can play with the stack, and are generally a better Vedalken Shackles deck than caw blade is (if they're playing shackles of course).
When I play Caw-Blade against combo, I always, always leave counterspell/removal mana up. This means I never entirely tap out. However, it does often make me cast 1 Squadron Hawk per turn or leave me cautiously unable to cast anything without Flash until I hit 4 lands if all I have is a Remand. Playing Tiago as an Ashcoat Bear (with a worse butt) is actually a pretty good play against combo.
I've gotten so cautious lately that I might not even cast Sword of Feast and Famine until I hit 7 mana, in case I get blown out by Bolt and they combo off.
Yeah, it's not to say that Caw Blade is bad against combo decks, or bad in general, but there are some very significant advantages faeries have over decks like Caw Blade. Being able to play a deck entirely at instant speed with a ton of combat tricks & stack interaction on the creature end is a big advantage in the hands of a highly skilled player.
From what I remember I played against Boom/Bust Zoo, tokens (my loss in the swiss), martyr, aggro loam, jund (we drew due to time as he won game one off the back of maindecked darkblasts), bant, and caw. That put me at 7th place with 5-1-1.
I beat twin in the quarters, red affinity in the semis, and in the finals I was getting close to taking control with shackles despite my opponent having two cranial platings in play. He drew the second white source he needed to lay tempered steel and that swung the game in his favor. Game two his hand was almost empty on turn 1. It was over as he was swinging for 8 on turn two and I failed to see land number four. The matchup was horrid and much worse than regular affinity due to tempered steel and the explosiveness of frogmites in conjunction of their low costing cards.
The Fae can handle Traft like a lot of other decks handle Traft--counter him or get him blocked. Unfortunately, keeping a resolved Traft at bay does kill your tempo, whether that's leaving behind V. Clique, Mistbind Clique (ouch; it's a big beater), a Mutavault, or some Faerie with a Scion of Oona out. Team Traft probably plays Path to Exile, though, so you might not be able to do this forever.
Thrun, though? Auuuuugh. Curse Thrun; I can't think of a single viable way to handle him.Scratch that. About the only way any Fae variant can viably handle him is Sword of Feast and Famine, which is a nonbo with Scion of Oona, so it might not be to your taste. But if he picks up a Sword himself, you're a goner.Is the deck just to expensive to play? I know that the Cliques are pricey and the Shackles aren't cheap. You would have an easier time getting someones kidney rather than their Mutavault. The rest of the deck is really easy to obtain though.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I definitely am missing decks here:
Tier 1: Storm, R/x Deck Wins, Affinity, Splinter Twin
Tier 2: UW Tron, Melira Pod, Monoblue Fae
Tier 3: Cawblade, U/G/x Delver, Aggro Loam, Jund
As for the lack of suppoty, people may feel that fast decks like Affinity or any RDW can overwhelm Fairies easily, which may repel players. It also receives some Splinter Twin splash hate too (Combust, Volcanic Fallout, etc)
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4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Scion of Oona
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellskite
4 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Pierce
3 Dismember
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Serum Visions
1 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
8 Island
No SB yet.
Maybe -1 Dismember and -1 Inquisition for +2 Spell Snare?
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Legacy love.
Did you look at the U/R version of the deck for splashes?
60 cards
1 Arid Mesa
1 Breeding Pool
6 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Tectonic Edge
25 lands
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Mistbind Clique
2 Sower of Temptation
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Vendilion Clique
16 creatures
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
4 Spell Snare
2 Vedalken Shackles
19 other spells
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Blood Moon
1 Combust
3 Dispel
3 Firespout
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
15 sideboard cards
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I'd prefer another Island over Faerie Conclave; or Creeping Tarpit if you insist on a 5th manland; But I mean if it's good for you in testing it's good for you in testing =P.
Basically, have you playtested with it yet? How many games and what matchups? What things do you like/dislike about the splash?
And why black over red? (for the splash color)
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Mono Blue runs 6 manlands. Can I ask why this deck isn't running Spell Snare?
22 lands is rather ambitious. I like black more than most people do but without Bitterblossom I just don't see why you would add black.
On a different note I would like to address the Volcanic Fallout myth. Other archetypes are jamming this card in their decks and assuming that is all they need to win. If your running the 6 manland package you shouldn't get blown out by Fallout. Seriously how is this card going to stop Fae if you play around it? I just keep seeing people post about how it kills the deck in other threads.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
On Volcanic Fallout;
It does make Mistbind Clique 'fizzle'. And it can be something of a anti-counterspell if you use it in response to a SSS. And essentially it does kill every creature in the deck aside from Mistbind / Spellskite.
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And Mutavault and Conclave. I have had a friend trying to make it work in Affinity and Jund. Most times they kill 1 maybe 2 Faeries and 1 or more of their guys. Never has the card "won" the game. It still doesn't stop Shackles from stealing the board. I just play around the card and don't really worry about it.
On the countering of SSS. When do people have 3 extra mana laying around to avoid SSS countering their spell? I understand that you can respond by blowing up the Faeries in response but the Faeries player has to be rather terrible for that to happen.
It also does make Mistbind Fizzle but if you see 2 red mana sources open and blindly play your Clique you deserve to get blown out. I make said statements based off of competent magic players playing each other.
I'm not pointing this at you but the people who follow the idea that Fallout is to this deck what Leyline of the Void is to Dredge. To many times I see dream scenarios spoken as the norm with hate cards. I hold this true of the people who play 1 Relic in their mains in Fae. I have never good stories about the singleton. Most people just play it because it was in the deck when the first PTQ winning list won. I find that it is the first card I side out in most matches. Aggro Loam being the exception of course. However a well placed Surgical Extraction is far superior to Relic in that instance.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I guess I should've said "i agree, it's not a complete blow-out but it does..." as a preamble to my post for clarities sake.
As you've pointed out even if you do manage to have a Fae player walk into Mistbinding when you have V.Fallout mana clearly up you still have to worry about your board being dominated by Shackles.
And I think Fallout manages to kill most common played relevant creatures in the format, anyways.
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It does a number on Tokens.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Scion of Oona
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellskite
4 Cryptic Command
4 Spell Snare
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
3 Vedalken Shackles
1 Repeal
3 Tectonic Edge
4 Mutavault
17 Island
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Steel Sabotage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flashfreeze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2-0 Zoo
2-0 Living End
2-0 Splinter Twin
1-2 Jund
ID Boros
Top8:
2-0 Aggro Loam
2-0 Jund (round 4 opponent)
2-0 Zoo
I didn't like the Spell Pierce in the Sideboard, they were for Jund but they didn't really help. I would probably play more grave hate instead for the Loam decks that are starting to show up.