Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
This is what I was playing last night if anyone is interested.
I am curious about your mana base. You have 7 creatures that grab basic lands with only 5 basics in the deck.
Crime//Punishment is one of my favorites from the Extended builds. It can be a serious beating versus Zoo and Merfolk.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I ve been playing deathcloud decks since the card was released in both standard and extended and I believe it has the potential to be great in modern. That being said I believe it should be g/b as adding a third color dramatically reduces it's consistency. Next life from the loam should be an automatic 3 or 4 of in ALL builds that engine is what allowed dEathcloud to stay competitive in old extended. Also simulacrum was subpar in the past and is subpar now.
You really want a decent number of planeswalkers and/or game winning artifact non-creatures to take advantage of death cloud. If you're only running 2x Garruk, why are you playing cloud?
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Ravenous Baloth would be illegal too, although Obstinate Balothwould be a good alternative
Other than the interaction with garruk Obstinate>ravenous
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
5 basics is more than plenty. I have yet to run out in the 20+ matches I have played so far.
2 Loam is fine without cycle lands. Also Knight of the Reliquary is like 800 times better than goyf in this deck. I may experiment with Horizon Canopy but it costing a land drop is dreadful. You are better off just going the opposite direction with Raven's Crime.
I completely forgot about Worm Harvest.
And I will be trying a blue splash for Ancestral Visions + Gifts Ungiven and maybe something spicy with academy ruins. Explosives would be good as well as a one of Bonehoard. There is also the question of why this deck is not running Stoneforge Mystic. I have yet to come up with a good enough reason not to as batterskull//Sword of Body and Mind is actually the stones in this deck.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
^ So far my best creature has been Finks but I think Knight would be a good call too. I am working on some lists and info so if you have any good play test results let em rip.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I'm finding that this deck is trying to do too many things, and can't focus on any of them. Efficient life gain creatures (Finks, Baloth) help combat early aggro, but aren't an overwhelming force on their own to pressure slow decks.
Meanwhile, mana ramp (Search for Tomorrow, Sakura Tribe Elder) are good for getting a big cloud, but aren't building your lands fast enough to where you can get off a massive cloud to cripple your opponent. To do that, you'll need to have at least 3 more lands than your opponent whenever you Cloud (due to the BBB in the cost).
Additionally, with all of the shock, fetch, and card draw (Night's Whisper) the deck is half dead by its own mechanisms late game, limiting how much you can safely cloud.
The way I see it, there are two paths for development:
-Beat down oriented with efficient green/black creatures with graveyard recursion/CIP abilities to benefit from a final Death Cloud massacre and get through for the kill. The key here is getting efficient creatures along with disruption to get your bigger guys on the board to beat, and a Death Cloud to finally clear the board for man lands and recursion creatures to get through.
-Combo control oriented, where you focus on hand disruption, mana ramp (possibly artifact based?), and board control to lay down a massive mid to late game Death Cloud to wipe out the board. Your man lands, recursion creatures, animate artifacts (Chimeric Staff), or Plansewalker finish the job while your opponent top deck with a prayer.
Which do you people think is more viable?
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
-Beat down oriented with efficient green/black creatures with graveyard recursion/CIP abilities to benefit from a final Death Cloud massacre and get through for the kill. The key here is getting efficient creatures along with disruption to get your bigger guys on the board to beat, and a Death Cloud to finally clear the board for man lands and recursion creatures to get through.
Hello! You guys! First post woo, been lurking in the modern section of this site for a while. Been real interested in playing with death cloud in this format. This is my list ive been trying out. Tell me what ya think, be gentle.
2x Crime/Punishment
2x Damnation
3x Death Cloud
4x Forest
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Go for the Throat
4x Kitchen Finks
4x Life from the Loam
2x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Rampant Growth
3x Raven's Crime
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
5x Swamp
4x Thoughtseize
4x Treetop Village
2x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
4 life from the loam is too many although its also hard to tell whats in the deck. You need to split the deck and group lands creatures and other spells so it is much cleaner.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
The good thing about the banned update is that Deathcloud's matchups just got sweeter.
I've got a decklist going that can trade fairly evenly with Zoo. Its shifted towards control, though my current list favors creature control while some other cards can be swapped out for hand disruption.
Quest for the Gravelord is a great card here, and I think we ought to try Nath of the Gilt Leaf. I'm on my phone and out of town so I'll update on Sunday
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
2 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Viridian Emissary
3 Smallpox
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Crime // Punishment
3 Thoughtseize
1 Damnation
3 Putrefy
3 Death Cloud
2 Life from the Loam
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Marsh Flats
1 Murmuring Bosk
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Treetop Village
2 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Phyrexian Arena
3 Obstinate Baloth
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Damnation
2 Cranial Extraction
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Crime//Punishment
This is what I was playing last night if anyone is interested.
I am curious about your mana base. You have 7 creatures that grab basic lands with only 5 basics in the deck.
Crime//Punishment is one of my favorites from the Extended builds. It can be a serious beating versus Zoo and Merfolk.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Next life from the loam should be an automatic 3 or 4 of in ALL builds that engine is what allowed dEathcloud to stay competitive in old extended. Also simulacrum was subpar in the past and is subpar now.Anyhow this is probably what I would run nowadays
5 forest
6 swamp
1 oran-rief, the vastwood
3 treetop village
4 verdant catacombs
2 overgrown tomb
3 twilight mire
creatures
4 sakura-tribe elder
4 tarmogoyf
4 kitchen finks
2 eternal witness
2 obstinate baloth
2 shriekmaw
4 inquisition of kozilek
1 duress
3 go for the throat
3 maelstrom pulse
3 death cloud
4 garruk wildspeaker
2 obstinate baloth
3 pithing needle
3 damnation
3 nihil spellbomb
2 memoricide
2 duress
UPDATED
EDIT: Thedonmega, Tranquil Thicket and Barren Moor are not likely to be legal in modern.
MRD_9th_ZEN list
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
-MTG Salvation.
Other than the interaction with garruk Obstinate>ravenous
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
2 Loam is fine without cycle lands. Also Knight of the Reliquary is like 800 times better than goyf in this deck. I may experiment with Horizon Canopy but it costing a land drop is dreadful. You are better off just going the opposite direction with Raven's Crime.
I completely forgot about Worm Harvest.
And I will be trying a blue splash for Ancestral Visions + Gifts Ungiven and maybe something spicy with academy ruins. Explosives would be good as well as a one of Bonehoard. There is also the question of why this deck is not running Stoneforge Mystic. I have yet to come up with a good enough reason not to as batterskull//Sword of Body and Mind is actually the stones in this deck.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Meanwhile, mana ramp (Search for Tomorrow, Sakura Tribe Elder) are good for getting a big cloud, but aren't building your lands fast enough to where you can get off a massive cloud to cripple your opponent. To do that, you'll need to have at least 3 more lands than your opponent whenever you Cloud (due to the BBB in the cost).
Additionally, with all of the shock, fetch, and card draw (Night's Whisper) the deck is half dead by its own mechanisms late game, limiting how much you can safely cloud.
The way I see it, there are two paths for development:
-Beat down oriented with efficient green/black creatures with graveyard recursion/CIP abilities to benefit from a final Death Cloud massacre and get through for the kill. The key here is getting efficient creatures along with disruption to get your bigger guys on the board to beat, and a Death Cloud to finally clear the board for man lands and recursion creatures to get through.
-Combo control oriented, where you focus on hand disruption, mana ramp (possibly artifact based?), and board control to lay down a massive mid to late game Death Cloud to wipe out the board. Your man lands, recursion creatures, animate artifacts (Chimeric Staff), or Plansewalker finish the job while your opponent top deck with a prayer.
Which do you people think is more viable?
-MTG Salvation.
Let's try this one. We can use cards like Call of the Herd and Bloodghast with Crucible of Worlds to get back on the board quicker than our opponent and seal the deal.
Or something to that effect.
And what do you mean "you people"? >:|
edit: Bonus points for Garruk Wildspeaker and Oran-Rief, the Vastwood.
Needs deck tags. this link will show you how.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=160614
4 life from the loam is too many although its also hard to tell whats in the deck. You need to split the deck and group lands creatures and other spells so it is much cleaner.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
its cool just trying to help you
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Island
12 Swamp
4 Dimir Signet
4 Mistvein Borderpost
3 Mox Opal
Spells
4 Smallpox
3 Death Cloud
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Go for the Throat
2 Repeal
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
I've got a decklist going that can trade fairly evenly with Zoo. Its shifted towards control, though my current list favors creature control while some other cards can be swapped out for hand disruption.
Quest for the Gravelord is a great card here, and I think we ought to try Nath of the Gilt Leaf. I'm on my phone and out of town so I'll update on Sunday
-MTG Salvation.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-18567.html
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Extended_Death_Cloud_deck
I'll be incorporating the notes here into my development
-MTG Salvation.
I was testing pretty well prior to the bannings and now I really like the decks position.
So I am going to get some lists up and wouldn't mind some help, looking at Feathers here.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77