Got demolished by Tron and Amulet Titan tonight at FNM, then got the bye to add insult to injury. Matchup lottery hated me tonight.
I managed to steal one game from Tron but Amulet feels unwinnable, even after I discarded their pieces, blew up their lands, and killed Sakura-Tribe Scout/Azusa.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I want to make the following changes after i take a look on GP LA :
the second kalitas will go to SB and i put a thoughtseize instead
i remove disfigure, damnation, eternal witness and a fulminator mage
so i add to side board liliana, the last hope, kalitas, creeping corrosion and a nihil spellbomb
Why not? Is the standard Rock build suited for it? Swap a few cards for the new ones? I think I'd build a substantially different deck for it. Something heavy on B for creatures that don't mind dying - to complement Bitterblosson - with a little G for Vraska and Decay, Trophy and possibly Pulse.
Who dies first? Can the Rock player tell the Ad Nauseam player exactly what he can do with all of those useless copies of Pact of Negation he's holding?
@pzbw7z :
you are correct ad nauseam's player dies first.
@FlyingDelver :
the eternal witness was a kind of 4th tireless tracker and i board in it in 75% of matchs because it can use again any sideboard cards and it's cheaper than a tireless tracker. It was pretty good and polyvalent, it not disappointed me but i have to play the 3th tracker before i think.
The last deck in the primer from 2005 has some gifts ungiven packages. But I can not see what you tutor for. Do anybody know? As far as I can see you can do duress, eternal witnes, cabal therapy and at least be safe to see 2 cards in their hand. I am a bit uncertain.
@pzbw7z : it seems far too slow but i never tried it.
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
To be clear : i put a 3rd nihil spellbomb in my SB but i was disappointed when i saw i am not very happy to have it against UR phoenix, 2 surgical et 2 spellbomb is far enough.
Ideally i want to play something like rakdos charm but i have no idea about something like that in GB. Maybe the 4th scavenging ooze can be good in SB ? I have already a 2nd kalitas in my 75. Any thoughts ?
Grafdigger’s Cage should fit the bill nicely, giving you extra coverage against CoCo/Chord/Evo/Vannifar decks.
Edit: Cry of the Carnarium is also reasonable in this context. I’m not particularly high on the card, but it does give you some extra anti-Dredge tech while pulling double duty against weenie strats.
@pzbw7z : it seems far too slow but i never tried it.
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
Have you tried Wheel of sun and moon?
It costs as much as Rakdos Charm and some decks have problems to remove it.
Though it only has one mode it hits quite a few of decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Scales, Pyromancer, Shadow, Living End, Mill, Storm, Control,..are the first decks i can think of.
@pzbw7z : it seems far too slow but i never tried it.
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
Have you tried Wheel of sun and moon?
It costs as much as Rakdos Charm and some decks have problems to remove it.
Though it only has one mode it hits quite a few of decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Scales, Pyromancer, Shadow, Living End, Mill, Storm, Control,..are the first decks i can think of.
With Vizier Company, it takes away their ability to gain infinite life through Kitchen Finks, but it doesn't stop Walking Ballista, sadly.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
Have you tried Wheel of sun and moon?
It costs as much as Rakdos Charm and some decks have problems to remove it.
Though it only has one mode it hits quite a few of decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Scales, Pyromancer, Shadow, Living End, Mill, Storm, Control,..are the first decks i can think of.
With Vizier Company, it takes away their ability to gain infinite life through Kitchen Finks, but it doesn't stop Walking Ballista, sadly.
It takes a bunch of G sources to play it reliably on turn-two. It might be too late after that. Rock decks don't always run enough with their play sets of Field of Ruin.
Someone will chime in with the exact number. At least they did the last time I brought up Wheel. Abzan decks typically have a better mana-base for Wheel alhough it certainly doesn't have to be so.
grafdigger's cage helps me against rare and not hard match-ups => devoted combo and vannifar so if these decks are more played, i think it's a nice choice.
@pzbw7z : it seems far too slow but i never tried it.
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
Have you tried Wheel of sun and moon?
It costs as much as Rakdos Charm and some decks have problems to remove it.
Though it only has one mode it hits quite a few of decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Scales, Pyromancer, Shadow, Living End, Mill, Storm, Control,..are the first decks i can think of.
It's the same job as nihil spellbomb with some little upgrade and very harder to cast. It's not good against control and control and it's average against pyromancer, not useless but not good for sure.
cry of the carnarium is the kind of idea i expect with my question ! it's ok against humans, burn and spirits and good against affinity, scales, hollow one, mono red phoenix and dredge. I will take one in my maybe SB. Thanks
Hi there! After playing with and against pretty much every Modern deck there is, I managed to reduce my options to just two: BG Rock and GDS. Both decks feel good to me, but I can't decide which one should I invest in (playtest time is quite reduced for me nowadays).
I'll be posting this on the forum as well, I hope that's ok.
That said, my question is: why should and shouldn't I play BG Rock? The local meta is quite diverse, with Dredge, UW/Jeskai control, G-Tron, Storm, Ponza and Burn being played frequently.
I understand that GDS requires quite a lot of practice and it will make you work hard for your wins. On the other hand, BG Rock seems to be more consistent but lacks card selection and speed to close up the games.
I know that there isn't a right answer, but I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks a bunch!
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
From my experience with those decks, the only notably miserable match-up is Tron. Big mana decks from my experience are nigh impossible to beat, but Burn, Dredge, and Storm are relatively easy pickings. Ponza isn't a terrible match-up since Blood Moon doesn't do much to the Rock as it does to Jund or Junk, and we have enough removal and discard to screw up the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl ramp package. Losing lands can be annoying but I've steam-rolled opponents while being stuck on three lands, so it's not impossible.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I try to explained some of my choices in previous post, only one major change here : the third thoughtseize "instead of" the second kalitas.
I think the format is very fast and try to not interact with opponent, i think it's exactly in this kind of metagame you want more discard spell.
Second point i think kalitas is not good against UR phoenix, it's average, sure when you untap with it and a removal it's very nice but alone on board it's too average for me.
So, now a very short and lazy report :
MCQ 1 : 4-2
Ad Nauseam 2-0
Dredge 2-1 (board out removal and LotV, keep all discard spells and creatures)
Tron 1-2 (i did a huge missplay at the end of a close g3 because timer was on 4min and my oppo was 16hp and i had no fast clock)
Red Prison 2-1 (i think if he played/side board better i probably loose)
Hardened Scales 0-2 (my opponent says me thoughtseize is better than brutality otp and worst otd, i disagree i think brutality is always worst than thoughtseize)
Amulet Titan 2-1 (i loose one game against hive mind and i miss my 4th land drop to pay green pact xD)
Main Event : 2 byes + 3-3
2 byes
Tron 2-0
Dredge 0-2
Red Phoenix 2-1 (very close match)
Storm 1-2 (my oppo did a GP top 8 some months ago, i discuss with him about my choices, he confirmed all of it but quite sad to "loose" 2 games on the 20%/30% of chances to don't draw a land a time)
UR Phoenix 2-0
UR Phoenix 1-2 (loose on blood moon :/, i explained to my opponent, it was a bad idea to board in against Rock but sometimes it happened, he gave me the first game free)
MCQ 2 : 3-3
Storm 0-2 (kind of frustating rulling for me so probably missplays in g2 at least)
Tron 2-0 (i apologized to my poor opponent when i start to sinkhole him)
Hollow One 2-1 (he missplayed the g2)
Mardu Pyromancer 1-2 (i was lucky in g1 and mull 5 the g3 against a unexperimented player so the g3 was close despite of the mull)
Grixis Death Shadow 1-2 (real magic <3)
UR Phoenix 2-0
Side Event : 2-1
8 whack Frenzy 2-1 (i now have a personnal record of 20 zombies made with kalitas in 4 turns)
Grixis death shadow 1-2 (i played bad despite of he keep a one lander otp)
Ad Nauseam 2-0
So it was a final 12-9 score which is correct but not great.
The third thoughtseize was very very good for me.
After i see the day 2 metagame, i was happy to my deck choice and deck building except humans deserve some sideboard cards more.
After some discussions with my opponents and/or teammates, some conclusions :
-Tron is definitely a good match-up with 4 trophy and field of ruin
-UR phoenix is between 50/50 and 65/35 but i think the match need a lot of skill in both side.
-Dredge is unfavourable for sure but really winnable.
-amulet titan seems to be a close match but pretty hard to play.
-you should be happy when your opponent plays turn 1 goblin guide and sad when your opponent plays turn 1 noble hierach into spirit/human
-you shouldn't play rock with a bunch of coffee in your blood and if you may be frustrated by the crazy turn of your opponents
-the deck is, imo, a ok/good choice and your favourite metagame should be Phoenix/Burn/Tron as top deck and Storm/Death Shadow/Ad Nauseam as tiers 2 and you don't want to play against humans/spirits/affinity/hardened scales/scapeshift.
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"What's Evil ?"
"Penguin is Evil ?"
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I managed to steal one game from Tron but Amulet feels unwinnable, even after I discarded their pieces, blew up their lands, and killed Sakura-Tribe Scout/Azusa.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I have GP bilbao next week, after to play competitive leagues with my previous list :
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Field of Ruin
2x Forest
3x Hissing Quagmire
1x Overgrown Tomb
3x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Collective Brutality
4x Fatal Push
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Tireless Tracker
4x Dark Confidant
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Damnation
1x Duress
1x Eternal Witness
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Collective Brutality
1x Disfigure
1x Kitchen Finks
I want to make the following changes after i take a look on GP LA :
the second kalitas will go to SB and i put a thoughtseize instead
i remove disfigure, damnation, eternal witness and a fulminator mage
so i add to side board liliana, the last hope, kalitas, creeping corrosion and a nihil spellbomb
"Penguin is Evil ?"
I am interested to hear how E-Witt performs for you. She can very well serve as Snapcaster for Rock decks in a sense, and value like that is great.
opinion?
it is posible?
I think it's a turn too slow to be the central focus of a Modern deck but it might fly in the right build.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Someone explain the following to me:
Ad Nauseam has resolved with Phyrexian Unlife in play. The Ad Nauseum player then puts all of his cards in his hand. Then he casts Lightning Storm to which the Rock player responds by destroying Phyrexian Unlife with Abrupt Decay.
Who dies first? Can the Rock player tell the Ad Nauseam player exactly what he can do with all of those useless copies of Pact of Negation he's holding?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
you are correct ad nauseam's player dies first.
@FlyingDelver :
the eternal witness was a kind of 4th tireless tracker and i board in it in 75% of matchs because it can use again any sideboard cards and it's cheaper than a tireless tracker. It was pretty good and polyvalent, it not disappointed me but i have to play the 3th tracker before i think.
"Penguin is Evil ?"
4 Windswept Heath
2 Polluted Delta
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Watery Grave
1 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
5 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
Creatures [16]
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Eternal Witness
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Withered Wretch
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Genesis
1 Carven Caryatid
4 Putrefy
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Smother
3 Living Wish
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Duress
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Withered Wretch
2 Naturalize
2 Duress
1 Carven Caryatid
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Stabilizer
1 Llanowar Wastes
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
To be clear : i put a 3rd nihil spellbomb in my SB but i was disappointed when i saw i am not very happy to have it against UR phoenix, 2 surgical et 2 spellbomb is far enough.
Ideally i want to play something like rakdos charm but i have no idea about something like that in GB. Maybe the 4th scavenging ooze can be good in SB ? I have already a 2nd kalitas in my 75. Any thoughts ?
"Penguin is Evil ?"
Edit: Cry of the Carnarium is also reasonable in this context. I’m not particularly high on the card, but it does give you some extra anti-Dredge tech while pulling double duty against weenie strats.
YouTube Channel, with deck techs, gameplay, analysis, spoiler reviews, and more!
Have you tried Wheel of sun and moon?
It costs as much as Rakdos Charm and some decks have problems to remove it.
Though it only has one mode it hits quite a few of decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Scales, Pyromancer, Shadow, Living End, Mill, Storm, Control,..are the first decks i can think of.
With Vizier Company, it takes away their ability to gain infinite life through Kitchen Finks, but it doesn't stop Walking Ballista, sadly.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
It takes a bunch of G sources to play it reliably on turn-two. It might be too late after that. Rock decks don't always run enough with their play sets of Field of Ruin.
Someone will chime in with the exact number. At least they did the last time I brought up Wheel. Abzan decks typically have a better mana-base for Wheel alhough it certainly doesn't have to be so.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It's the same job as nihil spellbomb with some little upgrade and very harder to cast. It's not good against control and control and it's average against pyromancer, not useless but not good for sure.
cry of the carnarium is the kind of idea i expect with my question ! it's ok against humans, burn and spirits and good against affinity, scales, hollow one, mono red phoenix and dredge. I will take one in my maybe SB. Thanks
"Penguin is Evil ?"
I'll be posting this on the forum as well, I hope that's ok.
That said, my question is: why should and shouldn't I play BG Rock? The local meta is quite diverse, with Dredge, UW/Jeskai control, G-Tron, Storm, Ponza and Burn being played frequently.
I understand that GDS requires quite a lot of practice and it will make you work hard for your wins. On the other hand, BG Rock seems to be more consistent but lacks card selection and speed to close up the games.
I know that there isn't a right answer, but I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks a bunch!
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I am back from GP Bilbao where i play 21 matchs with The Rock !
Not great results but some interesting things.
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Field of Ruin
2x Forest
3x Hissing Quagmire
1x Overgrown Tomb
3x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Collective Brutality
4x Fatal Push
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Tireless Tracker
4x Dark Confidant
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Geth
1x Duress
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Collective Brutality
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Kitchen Finks
I try to explained some of my choices in previous post, only one major change here : the third thoughtseize "instead of" the second kalitas.
I think the format is very fast and try to not interact with opponent, i think it's exactly in this kind of metagame you want more discard spell.
Second point i think kalitas is not good against UR phoenix, it's average, sure when you untap with it and a removal it's very nice but alone on board it's too average for me.
So, now a very short and lazy report :
MCQ 1 : 4-2
Ad Nauseam 2-0
Dredge 2-1 (board out removal and LotV, keep all discard spells and creatures)
Tron 1-2 (i did a huge missplay at the end of a close g3 because timer was on 4min and my oppo was 16hp and i had no fast clock)
Red Prison 2-1 (i think if he played/side board better i probably loose)
Hardened Scales 0-2 (my opponent says me thoughtseize is better than brutality otp and worst otd, i disagree i think brutality is always worst than thoughtseize)
Amulet Titan 2-1 (i loose one game against hive mind and i miss my 4th land drop to pay green pact xD)
Main Event : 2 byes + 3-3
2 byes
Tron 2-0
Dredge 0-2
Red Phoenix 2-1 (very close match)
Storm 1-2 (my oppo did a GP top 8 some months ago, i discuss with him about my choices, he confirmed all of it but quite sad to "loose" 2 games on the 20%/30% of chances to don't draw a land a time)
UR Phoenix 2-0
UR Phoenix 1-2 (loose on blood moon :/, i explained to my opponent, it was a bad idea to board in against Rock but sometimes it happened, he gave me the first game free)
MCQ 2 : 3-3
Storm 0-2 (kind of frustating rulling for me so probably missplays in g2 at least)
Tron 2-0 (i apologized to my poor opponent when i start to sinkhole him)
Hollow One 2-1 (he missplayed the g2)
Mardu Pyromancer 1-2 (i was lucky in g1 and mull 5 the g3 against a unexperimented player so the g3 was close despite of the mull)
Grixis Death Shadow 1-2 (real magic <3)
UR Phoenix 2-0
Side Event : 2-1
8 whack Frenzy 2-1 (i now have a personnal record of 20 zombies made with kalitas in 4 turns)
Grixis death shadow 1-2 (i played bad despite of he keep a one lander otp)
Ad Nauseam 2-0
So it was a final 12-9 score which is correct but not great.
The third thoughtseize was very very good for me.
After i see the day 2 metagame, i was happy to my deck choice and deck building except humans deserve some sideboard cards more.
After some discussions with my opponents and/or teammates, some conclusions :
-Tron is definitely a good match-up with 4 trophy and field of ruin
-UR phoenix is between 50/50 and 65/35 but i think the match need a lot of skill in both side.
-Dredge is unfavourable for sure but really winnable.
-amulet titan seems to be a close match but pretty hard to play.
-you should be happy when your opponent plays turn 1 goblin guide and sad when your opponent plays turn 1 noble hierach into spirit/human
-you shouldn't play rock with a bunch of coffee in your blood and if you may be frustrated by the crazy turn of your opponents
-the deck is, imo, a ok/good choice and your favourite metagame should be Phoenix/Burn/Tron as top deck and Storm/Death Shadow/Ad Nauseam as tiers 2 and you don't want to play against humans/spirits/affinity/hardened scales/scapeshift.
"Penguin is Evil ?"