Trimmed the 7th discard spell and a lightning helix for a night's whisperer and a liliana of the last hope and the deck is much better now, decklist feels really tight now. Highly recommend double planeswalkers and dreadbore has been great too. Might move dreadbore up to 2. Night and day difference.
Are there any rules for a "perfect" manabase. I'm running 17 red sources, 15 black sources, and 11 white sources. I want to fit a godless shrine somewhere in the manabase. I don't wan't to trim the red too much because of revelers double red cost
Nahiri, the Harbinger feels very good, Selfeisek was right. Smoothes the draws, exiles creatures, enchantments and artifacts(really important right now) and has a "get a Reveler NOW" button if you need gas. Liliana of the Veil feels really good too in a meta with Phoenix and GDS. Now that go-wide creature decks are being hunted by UR Phoenix, I feel she has a place in the mainboard again. She's as deadly against combo and decks with few threats as ever. And Hazoret the Fervent is almost imposible to remove if you don't have exile options. I haven't regretted replacing one 1 mana discard for a threat at all.
I've been considering Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as an extra threat that's hard to remove for red, and that hoses graveyard strategies while being good at stabilizing our life total. I feel sometimes that the deck lacks a way to gain life reliably. Maybe Timely Reinforcements or even Baneslayer Angel could work as they're pretty good against heavy aggro metas. UW uses these, and while they're way slower, the plan of stripping away their resources and slowing the game to a crawl should synergize with these cards too.
A Kalitas out of the sideboard looks good, was thinking of adding one myself. I think you need more molten rains in the sideboard unless your meta doesn't have much big mana stuff. Didn't like the Selfeisek lists and prefer the GALL lists a lot more. Nahiri is very good though. I'm still unhappy with the manabase in all of these decklists though.
We were 8 and everyone played against everyone.
My result was 6-1 ( 6 wins - 1 loss)
Matchups:
Griselbrand 2-0 (first game 4 Discards did the work, second game pretty much the same)
UB Mill 2-1 (All Matches pretty close, the long game favors Mill as well, but the losing game was closer than the winning ones, Bedlam was the key)
Dredge 2-1 (First game was close but lost, than Rakdos Charm won me the second game, third game he didn't drew is third land so i was fast enough)
UR Storm 0-2 (First game was lacking discard, second kept a greedy hand, too less lands, and was punished for it)
UR Storm 2-1 (First game: not enough removal for his creatures, second and third were easy because of extirpate and rakdos charm, his only reamaining win option were goblin token,rest was taken by extirpate or discarded)
Affinity 2-0 (he was an unexperienced player so not really a problem and had enough removel and blood moon for creature lands)
Jund 2-0 (Chandra with some pyromancer blockers won me the first game, very close, second game was way easier because of early blood moon, he had no basics so no way of removing it fast enough)
Smoldering Marsh is in the deck for blackleaf Cliffs(too expensive) but it rewards for searching basics
Shambling vents is rarely important but can get back some life
Ghost quarter/field of ruins - sometimes they are too restrictive, but you can use them to get basics (ghosting an own lands feels bad but can get you the needed color), and sometimes they are just perfect(against Tron, Manlands)
Blackmail or second Thoughtseize, i was chooseing blackmail because budget and it can get lands (most of the time you only want to use it if he has 3 or less cards)
anguished unmaking didn't do much, was thinking about 1 Carniaval/Carnage or another discard (Thoughtseize)
Chandra/Nahiri can win games on their own and provide nice utility, most of the times Chandra is favorable but sometimes Nahiri's exiling is very important.
Hazoret is a nice threat mainboard and if we need to speed up, there are two Goblin Rabblemester in the sideboard, was thinking about legion warboss split but i prefer the higher output from rabblemaster if unchecked.
Kambal is wonderful against any spellbased decks won me some games on his own (against mill or storm)
Rakdos Charm i like because of his flexibility and it's a spell (compared to Nihil spellbomb or Leyline)
Extirpate is needed for the Combo/Graveyard decks and can be pretty good against a "mirror-match" (Grixis,Mardu)
Anger of the Gods - much cheaper then EE and it's a spell for Bedlam, and exiles them, really important against Izzet Phoenix and dredge
Yeah I admit my manabase isn't good. Enemy fetches are expensive and haven't been able to add them. They improve the consistency of having all colors even under Blood Moon by a lot
Going to try Kalitas soon. I think it may be worth it. Probably instead of Hazoret or Liliana
I’d say Tier 1.5 or 2. Really wish we had gotten something from the new set but it doesn’t look like we did.
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Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
Yeah, speaking of RNA. Have you found any card that could be good?
I've found nothing. First i was liking light up the stage, but what does it replace really, i cant find anything worth taking out.
Then Rix Maadi Reveler is interesting but the same thing there, Bedlam Reveler is way better. Rix Maadi Reveler is easier to cast if we face GY hate but if we do get to cast Bedlam Reveler, its superior in every way, cheaper, bigger and with prowess.
Maybe if we changed our pool to more white in the future, Kayas Wrath could be a thing to save ourselfs if someone is racing us and winning, since we can get some hp from our creatures while destroying everything.
One card though that i want to try in SB against big creatures is Pestilent Priest, could be really fun to bolt a Deaths Shadow.
The only positive thing i guess is cheaper Godless Shrine
For sure Bedlam Reveler is much better than Rix Maadi Reveler. But how about use Rix Maadi Reveler as the 5th and/or 6th Bedlam Reveler for the deck? Surely would help with the gas (which is not really a big problem for the deck though). I don't really think that he's good enough, but I think that if we would try him, he would probably fit the role of being the 5th or 6th Reveler.
Light up the Stage could be a good draw spell IMO. It costs less than Night's Whisper (which only a few lists play) and doesn't do any damage for us. The problem is the Spectacle clause. In it's hard cast, Light up the Stage is a bad card. In Spectacle mode, it's really good. Maybe one or two copys? If it gets clunky, we might just discard them for Looting or Brutality.
Its worth testing, maybe it can be good.
The backdraw is if we find Lingering souls or Bedlam reveler and have no mana to cast them, then they are exiled and cant be used or retrieved with kolaghans or Ltlh.
I think Luts is better for aggro decks that will be able to cast everything they find with it.
Anyone else find lightning helix to be clunky? Lots of situations with 3 lands, a young pyromancer and a helix in hand. Feels bad. But burn is already a bad matchup.
Not that much, sometimes happens but I think it's normal. The problem is not Helix being clunky IMO because with those lands and young peezy in hand also brutalities, K command and souls would feel clunky, you just have to think what's the best decision for your particular scenario.
I'm currently toying around with Light up the Stage from my limited testing with them, there could be something to it in this deck. Having 2 turns to make use of the card largely gets rid of the Abbot of Keral Keep draw it/ cant play it/ loose it forever problem.
Anyone else find lightning helix to be clunky? Lots of situations with 3 lands, a young pyromancer and a helix in hand. Feels bad. But burn is already a bad matchup.
I feel the opposite. I am often amazed how my two helixes win me games. They never feel really bad.. don't know why but I really love them^^
Had my second fnm win against tron (in a row) yesterday Fast YP army + Bloodmoon / Alpinemoone were always key.
So this has been my sideboard for a while now:
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Kambal
1 Liliana, the last hope
3 Molten Rain
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear/Tear
So I’ve been thinking about dropping one Wear/Tear since KCI got banned. I’m considering Alpine Moon, Collective Brutality, Fulminator Mage, Pithing Needle or Painful truths.
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Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
I feel like this is a super unpopular opinion right now but i feel like bolt just isnt great, i have been running three and i love it, i also feel like the deck loses straight up to big creatures like gurmag who dodge almost our whole removal sweet, so i have 2 lili veil and i was considering 2 lightning axe in the side for that sort of thing
Personally i feel like lightning helix is one of the top cards in the deck, performing as bolts 5-6 (for me 4-5) and gaining life as well, it would take a lot of convincing for me to cut one of my 2
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RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Maybe the FMage. You have a lot of land hate with the Molten Rains. Hazoret is very good against Tron, Control and Burn (A perfect clock).
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Spells:
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
1 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
2 Blood Moon
Planeswalkers:
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Lands:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Wear // Tear
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Collective Brutality
Nahiri, the Harbinger feels very good, Selfeisek was right. Smoothes the draws, exiles creatures, enchantments and artifacts(really important right now) and has a "get a Reveler NOW" button if you need gas. Liliana of the Veil feels really good too in a meta with Phoenix and GDS. Now that go-wide creature decks are being hunted by UR Phoenix, I feel she has a place in the mainboard again. She's as deadly against combo and decks with few threats as ever. And Hazoret the Fervent is almost imposible to remove if you don't have exile options. I haven't regretted replacing one 1 mana discard for a threat at all.
I've been considering Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as an extra threat that's hard to remove for red, and that hoses graveyard strategies while being good at stabilizing our life total. I feel sometimes that the deck lacks a way to gain life reliably. Maybe Timely Reinforcements or even Baneslayer Angel could work as they're pretty good against heavy aggro metas. UW uses these, and while they're way slower, the plan of stripping away their resources and slowing the game to a crawl should synergize with these cards too.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Enchantment
1 Blood Moon
Land
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Smoldering Marsh
1 Shambling Vent
2 Dragonskull Summit
1 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Fatal Push
Sorcery
1 Blackmail
4 Faithless Looting
2 Dreadbore
1 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
Planeswalker
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Extirpate
1 Celestial Purge
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Collective Brutality
2 Molten Rain
We were 8 and everyone played against everyone.
My result was 6-1 ( 6 wins - 1 loss)
Matchups:
Griselbrand 2-0 (first game 4 Discards did the work, second game pretty much the same)
UB Mill 2-1 (All Matches pretty close, the long game favors Mill as well, but the losing game was closer than the winning ones, Bedlam was the key)
Dredge 2-1 (First game was close but lost, than Rakdos Charm won me the second game, third game he didn't drew is third land so i was fast enough)
UR Storm 0-2 (First game was lacking discard, second kept a greedy hand, too less lands, and was punished for it)
UR Storm 2-1 (First game: not enough removal for his creatures, second and third were easy because of extirpate and rakdos charm, his only reamaining win option were goblin token,rest was taken by extirpate or discarded)
Affinity 2-0 (he was an unexperienced player so not really a problem and had enough removel and blood moon for creature lands)
Jund 2-0 (Chandra with some pyromancer blockers won me the first game, very close, second game was way easier because of early blood moon, he had no basics so no way of removing it fast enough)
Smoldering Marsh is in the deck for blackleaf Cliffs(too expensive) but it rewards for searching basics
Shambling vents is rarely important but can get back some life
Ghost quarter/field of ruins - sometimes they are too restrictive, but you can use them to get basics (ghosting an own lands feels bad but can get you the needed color), and sometimes they are just perfect(against Tron, Manlands)
Blackmail or second Thoughtseize, i was chooseing blackmail because budget and it can get lands (most of the time you only want to use it if he has 3 or less cards)
anguished unmaking didn't do much, was thinking about 1 Carniaval/Carnage or another discard (Thoughtseize)
Chandra/Nahiri can win games on their own and provide nice utility, most of the times Chandra is favorable but sometimes Nahiri's exiling is very important.
Hazoret is a nice threat mainboard and if we need to speed up, there are two Goblin Rabblemester in the sideboard, was thinking about legion warboss split but i prefer the higher output from rabblemaster if unchecked.
Kambal is wonderful against any spellbased decks won me some games on his own (against mill or storm)
Rakdos Charm i like because of his flexibility and it's a spell (compared to Nihil spellbomb or Leyline)
Extirpate is needed for the Combo/Graveyard decks and can be pretty good against a "mirror-match" (Grixis,Mardu)
Anger of the Gods - much cheaper then EE and it's a spell for Bedlam, and exiles them, really important against Izzet Phoenix and dredge
Going to try Kalitas soon. I think it may be worth it. Probably instead of Hazoret or Liliana
I've found nothing. First i was liking light up the stage, but what does it replace really, i cant find anything worth taking out.
Then Rix Maadi Reveler is interesting but the same thing there, Bedlam Reveler is way better. Rix Maadi Reveler is easier to cast if we face GY hate but if we do get to cast Bedlam Reveler, its superior in every way, cheaper, bigger and with prowess.
Maybe if we changed our pool to more white in the future, Kayas Wrath could be a thing to save ourselfs if someone is racing us and winning, since we can get some hp from our creatures while destroying everything.
One card though that i want to try in SB against big creatures is Pestilent Priest, could be really fun to bolt a Deaths Shadow.
The only positive thing i guess is cheaper Godless Shrine
Light up the Stage could be a good draw spell IMO. It costs less than Night's Whisper (which only a few lists play) and doesn't do any damage for us. The problem is the Spectacle clause. In it's hard cast, Light up the Stage is a bad card. In Spectacle mode, it's really good. Maybe one or two copys? If it gets clunky, we might just discard them for Looting or Brutality.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
The backdraw is if we find Lingering souls or Bedlam reveler and have no mana to cast them, then they are exiled and cant be used or retrieved with kolaghans or Ltlh.
I think Luts is better for aggro decks that will be able to cast everything they find with it.
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
I feel the opposite. I am often amazed how my two helixes win me games. They never feel really bad.. don't know why but I really love them^^
Had my second fnm win against tron (in a row) yesterday Fast YP army + Bloodmoon / Alpinemoone were always key.
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Kambal
1 Liliana, the last hope
3 Molten Rain
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear/Tear
So I’ve been thinking about dropping one Wear/Tear since KCI got banned. I’m considering Alpine Moon, Collective Brutality, Fulminator Mage, Pithing Needle or Painful truths.