Its basically based on the most recent Rock version which you do find online, but with a view twists. First of I made the manabase consistant, which is very important imo. When you play 3 FoR and 24 lands, you need at least 3 Quagmires to have a minimum of 18 black sources.
I don't like the 4/1 split of LoTV and LtLH because I find LoTV underwhelming. I am not interesting in more than 3 copies of her at the moment, but am particularly interested in LtLH in Rock since Rock does not have cards like Souls to fight go-wide strategies well. LtLH can surely help here.
The rest is pretty obvious mainboardwise. A few flex slots are still there, not sure about Kalitas and Pulse for example. Could also see a singleton Cast Down instead of Pulse.
The SB is a bit messy, but it contains a lot of cards I want to test right now. How good is surgical with trophy. How good is choke against UW. Does Damping Sphere and the mainboard FoR and trophy really improve the Tron matchup significantly. Does Darkblast really help to keep up with the removal against small creature decks. Nissa also seems like a respectable bomb which I really am eager to try in the mirror or against control.
For the people sticking to BG Rock, I sense the tone that White is being heavily under estimated. Its not just Stony Silence. Lingering Souls might not be gameover vs Uw Control anymore, but its still really good in that plus these midrange mirrors. Not to mention Gaddock Teeg and Kambal are an absolute house in the format.
How are people on mausoleum secrets (or what it is called) It seems more versatile then traverse.
Both cards are obviusly better with tracker. And it's real home is in death shadow, ptobably grixis. (Anything that can magic up some death shadows is good.) But for 3 mana it can find and cast removal or discard. Grim flayers and or bobs. Perhaps that one of kalitas or flayers tendrils. I also like that it is instant speed.
But as usual ny instincy is to relly to much upon the gravyeard.
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Wait, what? When is teeg and kambal houses in modern? This is not commander.
Reid dukes earlier take om abzan was 3 lingering souls and liliana of the veil to discard them. Only other white card was stony in sideboard. Also shambling vents was a nice lifegain.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
If you are looking for reasons to go white I would recomend the sorrins. In particular the sojourner. His +1 that grants lifelink is good. Making flying vampiers is bothersom enough.
But then maiby we could just play a random whip of erebos. Anubody who played theroes standar know how lifelink is the king of fair fights.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I think white has powerful cards, for sure. I just value consistency, having roughly 2 more life a game, extra basics for moon and such, and field of ruin is often acts like a spell in a deck that wants 25ish lands anyway.
I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you asking how to sideboard? What cards to play if you want an edge? Or just how we feel about the matchup?
All of the above I suppose. I think GBx is definitely seeing an uptick so the mirror becomes more relevant. They go long, that's for sure, so the Discard seems less relevant but if you can get ahead, that seems to be key. It seems to be about landing a threat the can take over the game on it's own, or close out a game. The 5 CMC Nissa PW seems good here. Not really sure what can get through a 6/7 goyf though.
Seems like most people are on Rock instead of Abzan now, is that accurate?
That appears to be the trend, and I must say that the cohesion, consistency, and power of the “big” Golgari builds (25 land, 4 Tracker, 2 Tasigur) have set me on the Rock path over Abzan for the near future.
As to the BGx mirrors, the generally accepted way to sideboard is to cut your discard spells in favor of cards that kill permanents, and more threats of your own. So in a list like the one I’ve been running, siding would look something like this:
-3 Inquisition of Kozilek
-3 Thoughtseize
-2 Collective Brutality
+1 Damnation
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Obstinate Baloth
+1 Nissa, Vital Force
+1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
+1 Languish
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
Be sure to allow for minor changes based on the specific composition of the opposing BGx deck. For instance, I may not want the Languish against the exact mirror of 25-land, no-Bob Golgari because it doesn’t kill much, and there will be matchups where you may want to retain access to a Brutality or two...but you get the idea.
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There might be a rapid uptick in rock, but itll die down. Trophy will not break the format. If anything, Trophy makes our good matchups a little bit worse but our bad matchups a little bit better. Trophy vs Storm or Burn is the worst feeling in the world. That being said, I still believe Traverse is the best version of this deck in modern.
After sticking with Traverse, I realized its nice having a proactive game plan. You could do a lot worse than an early 4/4 Grim flayer or 5/6 Tarmogoyf. In a linear format like Modern, it pays to be aggressive. Sure, in grindy mirrors, youd want to go bigger and longer with Tracker but thats not what Modern is about.
Kambal and Gaddock Teeg are houses because it demands answers. As a midrange deck, its a nice change of pace having our own piece of hate that requires interaction fron my opponent, not the other way around. KCI and storm cant combo through Teeg or Kambal. Theyve both been surprisingly very good and a really good reason to splash white.
In all honesty, I initially expected Trophy to slow down the meta, but it wont. The linear decks will prey on these durdley midrange decks, like how they usually do.
There might be a rapid uptick in rock, but itll die down. Trophy will not break the format. If anything, Trophy makes our good matchups a little bit worse but our bad matchups a little bit better. Trophy vs Storm or Burn is the worst feeling in the world. That being said, I still believe Traverse is the best version of this deck in modern.
This is true, but arguably the bad matchups will be improved more than the good matchups will get worse. Also you can adjust your trophy count to switch directions a bit (if Big mana is more prevalent, then run more trophies) and when storm is prevalent, run less. However, as it stands now, I would anyways not run more than 3 trophies, as you really don't want multiples except for tron only basically.
Kambal and Gaddock Teeg are houses because it demands answers. As a midrange deck, its a nice change of pace having our own piece of hate that requires interaction fron my opponent, not the other way around. KCI and storm cant combo through Teeg or Kambal. Theyve both been surprisingly very good and a really good reason to splash white.
Kci and storm also cant combo through a damping sphere. It also costs 2 mana and doesn't require white.
Teeg is strong vs combo, but no hard lock necessarily (storm can still combo through teeg with a bunch of rituals and grapeshot + remand for example, but its strong that PiF, Gifts and Empty is shut down) and he is also strong against control and impactful enough vs tron. So teeg is more versatile. Sphere is useless against control, but a hard lock against combo and arguably stronger in the big mana matchups. Thats pretty much the difference. Overall its a matter of how consistantly you can beat control imo. If control is not an issue without teeg, then I would absolutely play Sphere anytime, since its stronger for the big mana matchup.
I've been reading a lot of trophy talk the last few days/weeks and it has struck me that, no one is talking about arming against trophy.
I don't see any tickups in running basics apart from rock lists. Adjusting manabases or spellpackages to be more consistent.
I allready run three in my traverse build and i am very worried those won't be enough against decks that pack 10~12 "go fetch a basic" spells.
Mirror matches and greedy matchups seem to be all about resources from now on.
@Ayiluss, did you play your own list of Abzan Traverse or did you try out Falleaf's latest iteration? I am very interested in hearing how that particular deck plays out because I can see myself playing that list for some upcoming events.
Fair enough. I think the Traverse list is also harder to learn than regular Bgx decks because it plays slightly different. You are correct that gravehate is probably a reason to play regular BGx lists but with Trophy the deck basically has an answer against most of the common hate pieces. My starting point with a list will probably be -1 LotV +1 Last Hope and I would add 1 Knight of Autumn to the Sideboard.
Kci and storm also cant combo through a damping sphere. It also costs 2 mana and doesn't require white.
Damping Sphere gets Natures Claimed (which KCI boards in 4 of). Gaddock Teeg and Kambal are tutorable in Traverse, which makes you consistent with having a hate card post board.
You do rely on the yard a little bit more. However, you also bring in threats post board that dont care about the yard. The deck has a bigger learning curve, but it has a higher ceiling with the aggressive nature I mentioned. I 100% believe we need that ceiling with how powerful modern has become.
Dont get me wrong. I LOVE Tireless Tracker. It might be my favorite card. (I currently have 1 in the SB of my 19 land deck, it might not be the best option but I love it too much). But having your deck have infinite durdly 3 drops with 25 lands just isnt the best plan unless you know your meta is full of grind. In a open field, Traverse is definitely the best BGX build
Played against jund, amulet titan, dredge, merfolks, spirits and ID the last round with another spirits player to a 5-0-1 record
in the top 8 i faced spirits (same guy from round 5), hardened scales, and ID with spirits (same guy from round 6)
against the creature decks i missed lightning bolt, kolaghan command and the sideboard options that red has like grim lavamancer, etc
the bg removal is very good at killing things but its bad without a target, unlike the red options mentioned above
realy liked the creature package, every single one of them can be huge and has added utility. that helped a bit at mitigating the lack of 1 cmc removal against the creature decks. Big creatures are good at blocking and threaten a lethal counterattack next turn, unlike confidant and bloodbraid, that sometimes sit without good attacks or blocks
tracker and goyf are easily the best cards in the deck
trophy is great but not exciting, i dont see myself going below 3 but the drawback its very real and very punishing
i would apreciate some feedback against decks like humans/spirits and U control decks, i dont like the options available in bg
next i would like to try a jund version but just for bolt, kolaghan and sideboard, i think that will help with the issue above
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Field of Ruin
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Treetop Village
Creatures [15]
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Collective Brutality
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damping Sphere
1 Choke
1 Collective Brutality
1 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Damnation
1 Darkblast
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Its basically based on the most recent Rock version which you do find online, but with a view twists. First of I made the manabase consistant, which is very important imo. When you play 3 FoR and 24 lands, you need at least 3 Quagmires to have a minimum of 18 black sources.
I don't like the 4/1 split of LoTV and LtLH because I find LoTV underwhelming. I am not interesting in more than 3 copies of her at the moment, but am particularly interested in LtLH in Rock since Rock does not have cards like Souls to fight go-wide strategies well. LtLH can surely help here.
The rest is pretty obvious mainboardwise. A few flex slots are still there, not sure about Kalitas and Pulse for example. Could also see a singleton Cast Down instead of Pulse.
The SB is a bit messy, but it contains a lot of cards I want to test right now. How good is surgical with trophy. How good is choke against UW. Does Damping Sphere and the mainboard FoR and trophy really improve the Tron matchup significantly. Does Darkblast really help to keep up with the removal against small creature decks. Nissa also seems like a respectable bomb which I really am eager to try in the mirror or against control.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Field of Ruin
2 Overgrown Tomb
5 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Treetop Village
Creatures [15]
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Collective Brutality
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Damping Sphere
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Choke
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Damnation
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Both cards are obviusly better with tracker. And it's real home is in death shadow, ptobably grixis. (Anything that can magic up some death shadows is good.) But for 3 mana it can find and cast removal or discard. Grim flayers and or bobs. Perhaps that one of kalitas or flayers tendrils. I also like that it is instant speed.
But as usual ny instincy is to relly to much upon the gravyeard.
Reid dukes earlier take om abzan was 3 lingering souls and liliana of the veil to discard them. Only other white card was stony in sideboard. Also shambling vents was a nice lifegain.
Storm and KCI can't win with Kambal on the battlefield. Same story though, they have a few ways to deal with it
Draft My Cube!
But then maiby we could just play a random whip of erebos. Anubody who played theroes standar know how lifelink is the king of fair fights.
The extra color is not free.
All of the above I suppose. I think GBx is definitely seeing an uptick so the mirror becomes more relevant. They go long, that's for sure, so the Discard seems less relevant but if you can get ahead, that seems to be key. It seems to be about landing a threat the can take over the game on it's own, or close out a game. The 5 CMC Nissa PW seems good here. Not really sure what can get through a 6/7 goyf though.
That appears to be the trend, and I must say that the cohesion, consistency, and power of the “big” Golgari builds (25 land, 4 Tracker, 2 Tasigur) have set me on the Rock path over Abzan for the near future.
As to the BGx mirrors, the generally accepted way to sideboard is to cut your discard spells in favor of cards that kill permanents, and more threats of your own. So in a list like the one I’ve been running, siding would look something like this:
-3 Inquisition of Kozilek
-3 Thoughtseize
-2 Collective Brutality
+1 Damnation
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Obstinate Baloth
+1 Nissa, Vital Force
+1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
+1 Languish
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
Be sure to allow for minor changes based on the specific composition of the opposing BGx deck. For instance, I may not want the Languish against the exact mirror of 25-land, no-Bob Golgari because it doesn’t kill much, and there will be matchups where you may want to retain access to a Brutality or two...but you get the idea.
YouTube Channel, with deck techs, gameplay, analysis, spoiler reviews, and more!
After sticking with Traverse, I realized its nice having a proactive game plan. You could do a lot worse than an early 4/4 Grim flayer or 5/6 Tarmogoyf. In a linear format like Modern, it pays to be aggressive. Sure, in grindy mirrors, youd want to go bigger and longer with Tracker but thats not what Modern is about.
Kambal and Gaddock Teeg are houses because it demands answers. As a midrange deck, its a nice change of pace having our own piece of hate that requires interaction fron my opponent, not the other way around. KCI and storm cant combo through Teeg or Kambal. Theyve both been surprisingly very good and a really good reason to splash white.
In all honesty, I initially expected Trophy to slow down the meta, but it wont. The linear decks will prey on these durdley midrange decks, like how they usually do.
This is true, but arguably the bad matchups will be improved more than the good matchups will get worse. Also you can adjust your trophy count to switch directions a bit (if Big mana is more prevalent, then run more trophies) and when storm is prevalent, run less. However, as it stands now, I would anyways not run more than 3 trophies, as you really don't want multiples except for tron only basically.
Teeg is strong vs combo, but no hard lock necessarily (storm can still combo through teeg with a bunch of rituals and grapeshot + remand for example, but its strong that PiF, Gifts and Empty is shut down) and he is also strong against control and impactful enough vs tron. So teeg is more versatile. Sphere is useless against control, but a hard lock against combo and arguably stronger in the big mana matchups. Thats pretty much the difference. Overall its a matter of how consistantly you can beat control imo. If control is not an issue without teeg, then I would absolutely play Sphere anytime, since its stronger for the big mana matchup.
I don't see any tickups in running basics apart from rock lists. Adjusting manabases or spellpackages to be more consistent.
I allready run three in my traverse build and i am very worried those won't be enough against decks that pack 10~12 "go fetch a basic" spells.
Mirror matches and greedy matchups seem to be all about resources from now on.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW
Damping Sphere gets Natures Claimed (which KCI boards in 4 of). Gaddock Teeg and Kambal are tutorable in Traverse, which makes you consistent with having a hate card post board.
You do rely on the yard a little bit more. However, you also bring in threats post board that dont care about the yard. The deck has a bigger learning curve, but it has a higher ceiling with the aggressive nature I mentioned. I 100% believe we need that ceiling with how powerful modern has become.
Dont get me wrong. I LOVE Tireless Tracker. It might be my favorite card. (I currently have 1 in the SB of my 19 land deck, it might not be the best option but I love it too much). But having your deck have infinite durdly 3 drops with 25 lands just isnt the best plan unless you know your meta is full of grind. In a open field, Traverse is definitely the best BGX build
2 thoughtseize
4 fatal push
2 collective brutality
2 abrupt decay
4 assassin's trophy
4 liliana of the veil
4 tarmogoyf
3 scavenging ooze
2 tasigur, the golden fang
4 tireless tracker
2 polluted delta
2 overgrown tomb
4 swamp
1 forest
4 blooming marsh
2 twilight mire
4 treetop village
2 field of ruin
2 collective brutality
2 kitchen finks
2 fulminator mage
2 liliana, the last hope
2 damnation
4 leyline of the void
Played against jund, amulet titan, dredge, merfolks, spirits and ID the last round with another spirits player to a 5-0-1 record
in the top 8 i faced spirits (same guy from round 5), hardened scales, and ID with spirits (same guy from round 6)
against the creature decks i missed lightning bolt, kolaghan command and the sideboard options that red has like grim lavamancer, etc
the bg removal is very good at killing things but its bad without a target, unlike the red options mentioned above
realy liked the creature package, every single one of them can be huge and has added utility. that helped a bit at mitigating the lack of 1 cmc removal against the creature decks. Big creatures are good at blocking and threaten a lethal counterattack next turn, unlike confidant and bloodbraid, that sometimes sit without good attacks or blocks
tracker and goyf are easily the best cards in the deck
trophy is great but not exciting, i dont see myself going below 3 but the drawback its very real and very punishing
i would apreciate some feedback against decks like humans/spirits and U control decks, i dont like the options available in bg
next i would like to try a jund version but just for bolt, kolaghan and sideboard, i think that will help with the issue above
maybe something like
-2 push
-2 brutality
-1 trophy
-1 lotv
+4 bolt
+2 kolaghan
and sideboard grim lavamancer plus some bomb like hazoreth, pia+kiran or bloodbraind for the control and midragne matchups