I'm sure it is being played. I think the problem is GBx is not particularly well positioned at the moment. if the wind blows in one direction you will never know the deck was even at an event but if the wind blows the other way it can top 8. /shrug
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
All fair decks have a problem right now except for control. That being said I think either Abzan Traverse, Jund or Mardu Pyro are similar viable right now. You have to fight for your wins with any deck though.
Deck is difficult to pilot tbh, I don't expect it to be a very popular deck for that reason alone, there is rarely an easy win and you need to know the deck well to play it properly. In big events that can be a real problem.
It's basically easier to get free wins with other decks.
Like with Tron, you go T3 Karn and even an unfavourable matchup like ad nauseam becomes favourable with all the land destruction you got going or with Humans/Hollow One/Hardened Scales, you drop a bunch of champions, lieutenants and images or hollow bois/ravagers and you have a ton of power on T3 and you can close the game on T4 or T5 easily through multiple removal spells.
With Abzan Traverse, you have to follow all the graveyards for goyf/delirium while keeping track of your bauble triggers meanwhile having a good handle on mana management of your 3-color deck and strategy for disruption/removal/hate pieces in any given matchup and even then, your most busted draws won't be able to beat other decks' most busted draws. You also need to be able to sequence perfectly while being a bit lucky with your matchups and games, like dodging Tron/Scapeshift or slightly fringe decks like mill. So yea, even if you play perfectly and have good draws, better decks will run you over and you can't do anything about it pretty much. And by better decks, I mean aggro decks like Humans or Hardened Scales Affinity where you should be favored since you're a midrange deck but you end up not being favored because they have strong synergies.
Yes, Abzan Traverse is pretty hard to master and pilot, but therein lies the charm of the deck. I've never had a more satisfying feeling after an evening of magic and winning trough difficult mathups. To me, that's what makes the game worthwile. I've never been the "free win" type player and my deck choises reflect that. I'd like to challenge myself and prefer fair magic.
I however do not agree with the statement that Humans is unfavored. I've playtested this game many times and since i'm a humans player from the very start i have a prety good feeling of what it can do and where it's weaknesses lie. This is lots of varried removal. I'm a stong advocate of Path to Exile in Abzan because of its strength in the current meta. But moreso because of Meddling Mage often times naming Fatal Push.
Humans feels favorable to 50/50 most of the time. Only busted disruptive starts of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben into Mantis Rider into follow up powerups or more disruption are very difficult. The most agressive starts with humans actually prove to be no problem at all if your removal lines up, which it usually does. Spirits is more or less the same, as discussed earlier. Removal is key. No race, control. Imho.
Favorable doesn't mean 50/50 and therein lies the issue. Midrange is supposed to prey upon aggro decks but it's not the case.
I said favorable to 50/50 depending on your and their hand. So i feel usually very slightly in favor of winning the match. Spirits indeed is worse, but like i stated before, not unmanagable.
Yes, traverse list has a nice enough removal package that it can play around Meddling Mage easily but between Thalia and Freebooter, you still might lose with a removal heavy hand. The supposed play the control and don't be the beatdown angle might also not work when you're hit with multiple buglers.
Spirits MU is even worse since you can't really block except with souls tokens. Also if they quell a couple of your removal spells and you don't have follow ups, you're gonna get got. Similiarly they can just bury you under CA if they draw multiple CoCos or if they get multiple activations off Moorland Haunt. Sure, you can try to play around all their tricks but it's not an exact science and you might just not be in a good position when you're on the draw and they're ahead on the board.
Singleton Bob I added to 60 does help with not getting buried part but even then, there'll be games where you'll die with cards in hand because you couldn't answer an early Aether Vial.
On the subject of satisfaction, I totally agree. Especially traversing for the win is really nice.
Hey guys, I've been on the good old Abzan (no traverse) list for a couple weeks now and here's some card suggestions for all you out there wondering which card to play:
Starting off with Ried Duke's old pro tour list, I've started by adding some additionnal removal since in most matchups of the current meta, we do not want to be the beatdown. Path to exile is the best removal in the format tight now : Arcbound ravager never touches the graveyard, hits fatties like Bedlam Reveler, Gurmag, Hollow one, Gideon planeswalkers, Eldrazi creatures, etc. It can also help you out vs blood moon decks if in trouble. The 3 copies have been really improving bad matchups and I encourage everyone to add 2-3 copies for the current meta.
I've added 1 basic plains to fight UW control (Field of ruin + path to exile makes you run out quick) and Blood moon decks and to facilitate casting the additionnal Paths and Rhino.
The traverse builds have been very exciting, but they are graveyard dependant and require many slots to make it actually work (4 baubles + 3 traverse + 2-3 targets) without necessarly being game winning plays. That's why I've chosen the old 8x Bob + Flayer + Goyf combination and used the rest of the slots for added removal. Since Abzan can't do degenerate things, I think it's better to have a hand packed with removal and no threat than spending 2-3 turns trying to get a creature on the battlefield. If you're stuck with an anemic hand, just make sure you leverage the full potential of your next threat while controlling your opponents board. It will win you more games if you control than you beatdown.
My prefered manland for Abzan is Treetop village. With 3 treetops, 3 Grim flayers, 3 Lingering souls and 1 Siege Rhino, I can get several chip shots and trample damage over making sure I get passed enemy tokens and chump blockers like Snapcaster mage. Getting those extra points of damage in while trading creatures is really something to consider. The treetop starts attacking on T3 with 3 power, which is 1 turn quicker and 1 more power than other lands (Hissing quagmire and Shambling vents), getting a real pressure on when you need a clock.
3 Bob, 3 Grim, 2 Goyf: Goyfs are completly useless agaisnt GY hate, which several opponents will bring in against you. I see that the traverse players have shifted to 4 grims, which I think is a good idea. The idea is to switch to Grims for added value in the long game (triggers on damage resolution) trampling over tokens, dorks and other chump blockers and not being shut down completely by GY hate. The clock is generally slower than a Goyf and they don't block as well but the upsides are worth the 3-2 split. 3 Bobs is still great, bad topdeck late game but awesome early game making 3 the right number for me.
I have been getting great finishes at local tournaments that have a very wide meta, never playing agaisnt the same deck twice, and this is all thanks to having the great removal suite. Having more than not enough is the reason why Midrange is good. Stopping the opponent from doing his thing and topdecking to find a threat is a very good position for the deck. Even if it lasts a couple turn of draw-go, that means you're in a favorable board state against much of the meta and is the reason why you play 4 Liliana and 6 discard in your main deck.
@HockeyPr0: great post. I too have been on non-Traverse Abzan and have been racking up consistently strong results. Our lists are quite similar; I agree that Path is strong at the moment, that Plains is a reasonable inclusion, and that the Traverse builds suffer from the structural problem of being a fair deck that folds hard to grave hate (note that this doesn’t make Traverse bad or even worse than traditional Abzan; just not a clearly superior choice, IMO).
That said, I’m forced to part ways with you over your choice to cut Goyf down to a two-of (though I suspect you realize this will be seen as something of a heretical decision ). While your rationale has merit, I truly believe that the good old Tarmogoat remains the best reason to be in BGx colors. As much as I love my namesake the Grim Flayer, in my experience with Abzan he’s been a clear understudy to Goyf in terms of overall efficacy.
Now, having agreed with the case for Abzan, don’t mind me while I pivot to my desire to start playing some straight up BG! I’ve always loved the clean 2c mana bases, and just as a change of pace I’d like to play some BGx games that way for a while. Now, I know it’s not as simple as cutting the white stuff and adding more of what’s already in the deck, so if any veteran Rock players would like to lend a hand, I’d be grateful. After browsing a few recent top 8 lists, this one caught my eye:
2) Without the benefit of direct experience, I already want to make a couple tweaks. I’m thinking -1 Bob, +1 Tracker in the main; swapping out the fourth Push in favor of bringing that Cast Down into the main; and adding Engineered Explosives + 1 other sweeper effect (either Damnation or Tendrils) to the side. Good, bad, meh?
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I was about to post the same! Interesting choices:
Only two Lingering Souls
One Murderous Cut
Four copies of Dark Confidant, latest list have cut him down to 3 or even moving away from it
No Path to Exile in the maindeck
4 (!!) Stony Silence on the sideboard
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I actually like his list. I don't like Path to Exile so this is good for me, only 2 copies of Lingering Souls seems a bit odd at first but the card isn't really good now so it makes sense. 4 Stony Silence is a lot but I think it makes sense since you really want to draw it against decks you're playing it for. The only thing I'm not sure is 4 copies of Dark Confidant, 3 might be the right number with so many fast decks running around but I still prefer him over Tracker or Flayer.
hes go no plains either so I think its BG splash souls. love the 2 forest 2 swamp config. souls is not that mandatory if you're only playing 1 grim flayer. they only reason to play 4 souls is if you're on 4 grim flayers and you're trying to get advantage off grim flayer triggers.
traditional abzan is better against field of ruin decks.
Now, having agreed with the case for Abzan, don’t mind me while I pivot to my desire to start playing some straight up BG! I’ve always loved the clean 2c mana bases, and just as a change of pace I’d like to play some BGx games that way for a while. Now, I know it’s not as simple as cutting the white stuff and adding more of what’s already in the deck, so if any veteran Rock players would like to lend a hand, I’d be grateful. After browsing a few recent top 8 lists, this one caught my eye:
2) Without the benefit of direct experience, I already want to make a couple tweaks. I’m thinking -1 Bob, +1 Tracker in the main; swapping out the fourth Push in favor of bringing that Cast Down into the main; and adding Engineered Explosives + 1 other sweeper effect (either Damnation or Tendrils) to the side. Good, bad, meh?
I've been playing a Ghost Quarter Rock fairly similar to that list. I started with the GQ-Abzan list in the primer - there's a Field of Ruin list as well - and made a few modifications.
I actually have two copies of Cast Down main-deck and only two of Fatal Push; this is new and I didn't regret it tonight. I did encounter Humans but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben did not get away. I have a copy of Engineered Explosives and a copy of Damnation side-board. EE hasn't showed up on time for me but Damnation has saved my bacon.
I can't say I'm thrilled with the list. I did win one FNM with it. The land destruction has not often been relevant for me but that's just the luck of the draw I suppose. The minute I switch take it out, it will be all Tron, all the time, I'm sure.
Reid’s list is pretty sweet. It’s always such a joy to watch him pilot anything BGx while narrating his thought processes.
In my opinion, his deck construction correctly reflects the hierarchy of upsides to the color white in Abzan:
1) Stony Silence. This is by far the strongest attraction, so the madman packs a full playset. Love it.
2) Lingering Souls. Still a great value card, but it’s lost a little bit of equity in the meta due to Terminus supplanting to some degree the four-mana wraths and spot removal in Uxx decks. Shaving the number of Souls reflects this.
3) Path to Exile. Undeniably powerful in the format but works at cross purposes to our general plan of grinding ‘em out. I use the card maindeck, which is perfectly reasonable, but including it in the sideboard makes a surprising amount of sense to me, and has the side benefit of not bogging us down with too many removal spells G1 against decks with few to no creatures.
Now, having agreed with the case for Abzan, don’t mind me while I pivot to my desire to start playing some straight up BG! I’ve always loved the clean 2c mana bases, and just as a change of pace I’d like to play some BGx games that way for a while. Now, I know it’s not as simple as cutting the white stuff and adding more of what’s already in the deck, so if any veteran Rock players would like to lend a hand, I’d be grateful. After browsing a few recent top 8 lists, this one caught my eye:
2) Without the benefit of direct experience, I already want to make a couple tweaks. I’m thinking -1 Bob, +1 Tracker in the main; swapping out the fourth Push in favor of bringing that Cast Down into the main; and adding Engineered Explosives + 1 other sweeper effect (either Damnation or Tendrils) to the side. Good, bad, meh?
I've been playing a Ghost Quarter Rock fairly similar to that list. I started with the GQ-Abzan list in the primer - there's a Field of Ruin list as well - and made a few modifications.
I actually have two copies of Cast Down main-deck and only two of Fatal Push; this is new and I didn't regret it tonight. I did encounter Humans but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben did not get away. I have a copy of Engineered Explosives and a copy of Damnation side-board. EE hasn't showed up on time for me but Damnation has saved my bacon.
I can't say I'm thrilled with the list. I did win one FNM with it. The land destruction has not often been relevant for me but that's just the luck of the draw I suppose. The minute I switch take it out, it will be all Tron, all the time, I'm sure.
2x Cast Down seems just fine to me. Damnation showing up big for you is a good sign, because it’s the clunkiest of the sweepers we run. EE will be great for you once you start finding it early.
I can see the LD feeling a little meh a lot of the time, but as you say it’s a safety valve against Tron and the like. It also seems to be a pretty free inclusion, at least so far as Field is concerned—which reminds me, what drew you to GQ instead? Obviously GQ provides the unconditional and non-mana intensive out to a land at any given time, but it seems to me that the grindy and interactive nature of BGx lends itself better to the value of Field. And on the subject of lands, how do people feel at the moment about Twilight Mire in Rock? My intitial thoughts are positive; it’s obviously bad if you open on a two-lander with Mire and Field, but if the Mire were a Blooming Marsh that’s still somewhat sketchy. With E-Wit and Scooze pulling your mana in one direction and Lilianas in the other, it looks like a decent one-of.
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I've been playing a Ghost Quarter Rock fairly similar to that list. I started with the GQ-Abzan list in the primer - there's a Field of Ruin list as well - and made a few modifications.
I actually have two copies of Cast Down main-deck and only two of Fatal Push; this is new and I didn't regret it tonight. I did encounter Humans but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben did not get away. I have a copy of Engineered Explosives and a copy of Damnation side-board. EE hasn't showed up on time for me but Damnation has saved my bacon.
I can't say I'm thrilled with the list. I did win one FNM with it. The land destruction has not often been relevant for me but that's just the luck of the draw I suppose. The minute I switch take it out, it will be all Tron, all the time, I'm sure.
I can see the LD feeling a little meh a lot of the time, but as you say it’s a safety valve against Tron and the like. It also seems to be a pretty free inclusion, at least so far as Field is concerned—which reminds me, what drew you to GQ instead? Obviously GQ provides the unconditional and non-mana intensive out to a land at any given time, but it seems to me that the grindy and interactive nature of BGx lends itself better to the value of Field. And on the subject of lands, how do people feel at the moment about Twilight Mire in Rock? My intitial thoughts are positive; it’s obviously bad if you open on a two-lander with Mire and Field, but if the Mire were a Blooming Marsh that’s still somewhat sketchy. With E-Wit and Scooze pulling your mana in one direction and Lilianas in the other, it looks like a decent one-of.
Field of Ruin has little chance of holding off an early Tron or keeping them off of it for long. I run four Ghost Quarter main-deck and four Fulminator Mages side-board along with two Surgical Extraction and it's all for big-mana strategies. Three copies of Field of Ruin seems like a strategy for man-lands and annoying things like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin.
Twilight Mire is a fine card in many GBx decks but not when one has three or four colorless lands and three or four enters-the-battlefield-tapped lands. The risk of unplayable hands seems quite high. I've run as many as three Mire in Rock decks, especially when Rex was in the mix.
Played reid dukes list at tourney today and I would say traverseabzan is better. I lost to fringe decks like amulet, and elves. I think abzan traverse has better clock and more proactive and better in a wide open meta. Rieds list I think is more for high level where u expect to play tier decks.
[quote from="pzbw7z »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/789154-abzan-the-rock?comment=687"]Field of Ruin has little chance of holding off an early Tron or keeping them off of it for long. I run four Ghost Quarter main-deck and four Fulminator Mages side-board along with two Surgical Extraction and it's all for big-mana strategies. Three copies of Field of Ruin seems like a strategy for man-lands and annoying things like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin.
Twilight Mire is a fine card in many GBx decks but not when one has three or four colorless lands and three or four enters-the-battlefield-tapped lands. The risk of unplayable hands seems quite high. I've run as many as three Mire in Rock decks, especially when Rex was in the mix.
Wow, you’re really committed to keeping your head above water against Tron. Can’t blame you there, given it’s meta share. Just as a rough estimate, how would you estimate your odds against Tron with that build, both pre- and post-side? And yeah, Field shines against midrange and control. Has anyone been playing with a split of the two LD lands?
Re: Reid’s list vs Traverse, I wouldn’t necessarily call Elves or Amulet fringe. They’ve both been around a while, show up a reasonable amount of time in large events, and most importantly can have extremely explosive draws that any build of BGx will struggle to stave off.
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but what ive learn on his list is we need to find a room for stony silence on the traverse list. kataki isnt good on the artifact decks right now. but the pelroblem is also not getting hit by your own stony silence when playing Mishra's bauble. what other cantrips available for us that cost zero? im thinking of droping 1 bauble for a architects of will, manapmorphose or street wraith.
Field of Ruin has little chance of holding off an early Tron or keeping them off of it for long. I run four Ghost Quarter main-deck and four Fulminator Mages side-board along with two Surgical Extraction and it's all for big-mana strategies. Three copies of Field of Ruin seems like a strategy for man-lands and annoying things like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin.
Twilight Mire is a fine card in many GBx decks but not when one has three or four colorless lands and three or four enters-the-battlefield-tapped lands. The risk of unplayable hands seems quite high. I've run as many as three Mire in Rock decks, especially when Rex was in the mix.
Wow, you’re really committed to keeping your head above water against Tron. Can’t blame you there, given it’s meta share. Just as a rough estimate, how would you estimate your odds against Tron with that build, both pre- and post-side? And yeah, Field shines against midrange and control. Has anyone been playing with a split of the two LD lands?
Well, I had had enough and I wasn't going to take it anymore. But since I built this version, I haven't seen an Urza land. Not one. I do think this version has a pretty good chance - especially post-board - of keeping one's opponent from assembling Tron.
did some tinkering and flaying tendrils is good on the meta right now. hits a lot of recurring and die triggers from harden scales, hollow one, bridgevine and not bad against aggro. tasigur too is great as a 1-off when you need to traverse for an early blocker. its anti delirium but it helps stone wall aggressive decks and its great on grindy matchups too.
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Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
Yes, Abzan Traverse is pretty hard to master and pilot, but therein lies the charm of the deck. I've never had a more satisfying feeling after an evening of magic and winning trough difficult mathups. To me, that's what makes the game worthwile. I've never been the "free win" type player and my deck choises reflect that. I'd like to challenge myself and prefer fair magic.
I however do not agree with the statement that Humans is unfavored. I've playtested this game many times and since i'm a humans player from the very start i have a prety good feeling of what it can do and where it's weaknesses lie. This is lots of varried removal. I'm a stong advocate of Path to Exile in Abzan because of its strength in the current meta. But moreso because of Meddling Mage often times naming Fatal Push.
Humans feels favorable to 50/50 most of the time. Only busted disruptive starts of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben into Mantis Rider into follow up powerups or more disruption are very difficult. The most agressive starts with humans actually prove to be no problem at all if your removal lines up, which it usually does. Spirits is more or less the same, as discussed earlier. Removal is key. No race, control. Imho.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I said favorable to 50/50 depending on your and their hand. So i feel usually very slightly in favor of winning the match. Spirits indeed is worse, but like i stated before, not unmanagable.
So much win!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Starting off with Ried Duke's old pro tour list, I've started by adding some additionnal removal since in most matchups of the current meta, we do not want to be the beatdown. Path to exile is the best removal in the format tight now : Arcbound ravager never touches the graveyard, hits fatties like Bedlam Reveler, Gurmag, Hollow one, Gideon planeswalkers, Eldrazi creatures, etc. It can also help you out vs blood moon decks if in trouble. The 3 copies have been really improving bad matchups and I encourage everyone to add 2-3 copies for the current meta.
I've added 1 basic plains to fight UW control (Field of ruin + path to exile makes you run out quick) and Blood moon decks and to facilitate casting the additionnal Paths and Rhino.
The traverse builds have been very exciting, but they are graveyard dependant and require many slots to make it actually work (4 baubles + 3 traverse + 2-3 targets) without necessarly being game winning plays. That's why I've chosen the old 8x Bob + Flayer + Goyf combination and used the rest of the slots for added removal. Since Abzan can't do degenerate things, I think it's better to have a hand packed with removal and no threat than spending 2-3 turns trying to get a creature on the battlefield. If you're stuck with an anemic hand, just make sure you leverage the full potential of your next threat while controlling your opponents board. It will win you more games if you control than you beatdown.
My prefered manland for Abzan is Treetop village. With 3 treetops, 3 Grim flayers, 3 Lingering souls and 1 Siege Rhino, I can get several chip shots and trample damage over making sure I get passed enemy tokens and chump blockers like Snapcaster mage. Getting those extra points of damage in while trading creatures is really something to consider. The treetop starts attacking on T3 with 3 power, which is 1 turn quicker and 1 more power than other lands (Hissing quagmire and Shambling vents), getting a real pressure on when you need a clock.
3 Bob, 3 Grim, 2 Goyf: Goyfs are completly useless agaisnt GY hate, which several opponents will bring in against you. I see that the traverse players have shifted to 4 grims, which I think is a good idea. The idea is to switch to Grims for added value in the long game (triggers on damage resolution) trampling over tokens, dorks and other chump blockers and not being shut down completely by GY hate. The clock is generally slower than a Goyf and they don't block as well but the upsides are worth the 3-2 split. 3 Bobs is still great, bad topdeck late game but awesome early game making 3 the right number for me.
I have been getting great finishes at local tournaments that have a very wide meta, never playing agaisnt the same deck twice, and this is all thanks to having the great removal suite. Having more than not enough is the reason why Midrange is good. Stopping the opponent from doing his thing and topdecking to find a threat is a very good position for the deck. Even if it lasts a couple turn of draw-go, that means you're in a favorable board state against much of the meta and is the reason why you play 4 Liliana and 6 discard in your main deck.
Here's my list as a reference : http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-11-17-ZTb-abzan-midrange/?cb=1536325549
Have there been any good Junk finishes recently? I havent seen a list hit a top 8 of a tournament in a while now.
BGW - Abzan
Legacy
BG - BG Lands
That said, I’m forced to part ways with you over your choice to cut Goyf down to a two-of (though I suspect you realize this will be seen as something of a heretical decision ). While your rationale has merit, I truly believe that the good old Tarmogoat remains the best reason to be in BGx colors. As much as I love my namesake the Grim Flayer, in my experience with Abzan he’s been a clear understudy to Goyf in terms of overall efficacy.
Now, having agreed with the case for Abzan, don’t mind me while I pivot to my desire to start playing some straight up BG! I’ve always loved the clean 2c mana bases, and just as a change of pace I’d like to play some BGx games that way for a while. Now, I know it’s not as simple as cutting the white stuff and adding more of what’s already in the deck, so if any veteran Rock players would like to lend a hand, I’d be grateful. After browsing a few recent top 8 lists, this one caught my eye:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19917&d=328819&f=MO
1) Is this a reasonable place to start?
2) Without the benefit of direct experience, I already want to make a couple tweaks. I’m thinking -1 Bob, +1 Tracker in the main; swapping out the fourth Push in favor of bringing that Cast Down into the main; and adding Engineered Explosives + 1 other sweeper effect (either Damnation or Tendrils) to the side. Good, bad, meh?
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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-09-07
looks cool
hes go no plains either so I think its BG splash souls. love the 2 forest 2 swamp config. souls is not that mandatory if you're only playing 1 grim flayer. they only reason to play 4 souls is if you're on 4 grim flayers and you're trying to get advantage off grim flayer triggers.
traditional abzan is better against field of ruin decks.
Reid mostly never plays Path, because its against the strategy of denying opponents resources. Its interesting to see path in the 75 at all actually.
I've been playing a Ghost Quarter Rock fairly similar to that list. I started with the GQ-Abzan list in the primer - there's a Field of Ruin list as well - and made a few modifications.
I actually have two copies of Cast Down main-deck and only two of Fatal Push; this is new and I didn't regret it tonight. I did encounter Humans but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben did not get away. I have a copy of Engineered Explosives and a copy of Damnation side-board. EE hasn't showed up on time for me but Damnation has saved my bacon.
I can't say I'm thrilled with the list. I did win one FNM with it. The land destruction has not often been relevant for me but that's just the luck of the draw I suppose. The minute I switch take it out, it will be all Tron, all the time, I'm sure.
I want to go back to a Grim Flayer-based list. Dark Confidant has been a liability in too many games for me. Tireless Tracker is very good as a two-of.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
In my opinion, his deck construction correctly reflects the hierarchy of upsides to the color white in Abzan:
1) Stony Silence. This is by far the strongest attraction, so the madman packs a full playset. Love it.
2) Lingering Souls. Still a great value card, but it’s lost a little bit of equity in the meta due to Terminus supplanting to some degree the four-mana wraths and spot removal in Uxx decks. Shaving the number of Souls reflects this.
3) Path to Exile. Undeniably powerful in the format but works at cross purposes to our general plan of grinding ‘em out. I use the card maindeck, which is perfectly reasonable, but including it in the sideboard makes a surprising amount of sense to me, and has the side benefit of not bogging us down with too many removal spells G1 against decks with few to no creatures.
2x Cast Down seems just fine to me. Damnation showing up big for you is a good sign, because it’s the clunkiest of the sweepers we run. EE will be great for you once you start finding it early.
I can see the LD feeling a little meh a lot of the time, but as you say it’s a safety valve against Tron and the like. It also seems to be a pretty free inclusion, at least so far as Field is concerned—which reminds me, what drew you to GQ instead? Obviously GQ provides the unconditional and non-mana intensive out to a land at any given time, but it seems to me that the grindy and interactive nature of BGx lends itself better to the value of Field. And on the subject of lands, how do people feel at the moment about Twilight Mire in Rock? My intitial thoughts are positive; it’s obviously bad if you open on a two-lander with Mire and Field, but if the Mire were a Blooming Marsh that’s still somewhat sketchy. With E-Wit and Scooze pulling your mana in one direction and Lilianas in the other, it looks like a decent one-of.
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Field of Ruin has little chance of holding off an early Tron or keeping them off of it for long. I run four Ghost Quarter main-deck and four Fulminator Mages side-board along with two Surgical Extraction and it's all for big-mana strategies. Three copies of Field of Ruin seems like a strategy for man-lands and annoying things like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin.
Twilight Mire is a fine card in many GBx decks but not when one has three or four colorless lands and three or four enters-the-battlefield-tapped lands. The risk of unplayable hands seems quite high. I've run as many as three Mire in Rock decks, especially when Rex was in the mix.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Wow, you’re really committed to keeping your head above water against Tron. Can’t blame you there, given it’s meta share. Just as a rough estimate, how would you estimate your odds against Tron with that build, both pre- and post-side? And yeah, Field shines against midrange and control. Has anyone been playing with a split of the two LD lands?
Re: Reid’s list vs Traverse, I wouldn’t necessarily call Elves or Amulet fringe. They’ve both been around a while, show up a reasonable amount of time in large events, and most importantly can have extremely explosive draws that any build of BGx will struggle to stave off.
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Well, I had had enough and I wasn't going to take it anymore. But since I built this version, I haven't seen an Urza land. Not one. I do think this version has a pretty good chance - especially post-board - of keeping one's opponent from assembling Tron.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn