Yep I agree, plus she has solid stats for 3 mana and therefore its not a complete downside to have her against other decks where her exiling is useless.
Rounds 1 and 2 where not relevant at all unfortunately, it was 2 budget/not good decks at all, a Isochron's Scepter deck and Modern Belcher. Both easy 2-0.
Round 3: Against Valakut. In game 1 he was stuck on 5 lands while having some Titans and Scapehifts in hand. I got a good clock going with an early Grim Flayer and then landed a LoTV, chipping away his cards in hand. I had a Path for the first Titan at the ready, so I had enough of time before I would have get killed. Game 2 was pretty nuts, as I had a pretty good turn of Thoughtseizing one Titan, deploying Fulminator to blow up a Valakut and extracting it with Surgical. There was a second titan in hand for my opponent but I could handle that easily with a Shriekmaw. Then I ran him over with Flayers.
Round 4: Against Eldrazi Tron. Ended up loosing that one, although I forced it to game 3 before. But unfortunatly I was stuck on 2 lands in that one, which was the only time I had mana issues coming from 19 lands only. It didn't feel terrible, since I could operate very well on 2 mana only. I had hand disruption, Gaddock Teeg for his Karns/Ugins and 4/4 Flayers to trade with opposing TKS. However, I would have needed a third land to hit LoTV on the table, but I didn't and my opponent only topdecked Smashers.
Round 5: Against Affinity, not much so say here, was an easy 2-0. Always great to face good matchups.
Overall I really like the deck atm as it is. Could not say I want 20 lands right now, so I am sticking with 19 lands and see how it develops. But from my few FNMs and playtesting it felt okay. I am not sure on Anafenza, maybe I will play the 4th Souls in her spot, but I keep her as well for now.
Hi all ! Do you think Reid Duke abzan list still ok in this meta? I prepare myself for GP Praha this month, and I can't decide wich list I'll play :/ Abzan traverse looks great, but I don't own all the cards, and I' ve no experience with it.
I think Abzan Traverse is the best Abzan build atm. If you are opting for the Reid Duke approach, in my mind there is no reason why you shouldn't play Mardu Pyro instead. However, if you know the Reid Duke approach best, its certainly one of the better choices, since being familiar with a deck is very important in Modern. You can tweak the list according to your needs for sure.
But overall, I would advice you to at least have a look at Abzan Traverse.
Sure, Sol Malka for example still does well with Rock and pops up here and there. Unfortunately no recent wins, but at least doing decent. Being familiar is very important.
In the current metagame, why should I switch from Jund to Abzan? What do I gain? What do I lose?
Without any experience with Abzan, I guess that it may have a slightly better Tron matchup (if you run Paths), a little bit more grindier (Souls), but with less reach and efficient removal (no K-Command / Terminate). Perhaps the question I should be asking is: is Souls better than BBE?
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
A slightly less relevant question: If Stoneforge Mystic gets unbanned, does Abzan become better than Jund? Abzan can usually out grind jund in a head on just on the back of souls, though BBE definately closed the gap. But what about against the field? Who has a better favorable line up?
In the current metagame, why should I switch from Jund to Abzan? What do I gain? What do I lose?
Without any experience with Abzan, I guess that it may have a slightly better Tron matchup (if you run Paths), a little bit more grindier (Souls), but with less reach and efficient removal (no K-Command / Terminate). Perhaps the question I should be asking is: is Souls better than BBE?
So my 2 cents on this is: Right now you have to find a reason to actually not play Mardu, not Jund. Mardu is just a better Jund imo (only bad matchup is Tron really).
However, since Mardu is on everyone's radar, you have to beat Mardu also (besides the usual Hollow One, KCI, Tron, COntrol and Humans). Abzan has a great advantage when it comes to the Traverse build: It has a favourable Humans, Mardu and Hollow One matchup. Tron can be more beaten than Mardu can imo and this leaves you only with the control matchup, which is worse for Abzan traverse compared to Mardu. So its a metacall imo. If you expect much Control, Abzan traverse is just tough to play, and you are better off Mardu (also Jund even). As for beating Mardu, Hollow One and Humans, Abzan Traverse is well suited for it.
I do not quite agree on the control matchup. A RIP for example makes our goyfs worthless and our Traverses and Grim Flayer way less of a threat. Mardu can still very well operate on front sides of Looting and Souls, and through hardcasting Revelers. And when a RIP is on the BF, Abzan also looses its ability to close games fast.
Also BM is a house against Jeskai specifically, its one single reason its a good matchup for Mardu.
In that sense I think GY hate in general impacts Abzan Traverse more than Mardu. And Control having access to RIP means its quite scary on the Abzan side imo.
Thank you guys for your replies, appreciate it! My LGS meta is... well, literally one of each (sometimes 2 copies of Burn, Affinity, Tron). It's quite hard to make a proper metagame call.
I haven't had any success with Jund so far (got paired against Bogles, Scapeshift, and some other roughs matchups) lately, so I was considering switching to Abzan and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'll go back to Storm hahah
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Yes, too slow and unreliable since you would want to cast it on turn 2 and you won't have delirium on turn 2 very likely. And without deliirum its just not really impactful for its cost.
Keep in mind that the most relevant misses on Cast Down aren't PKN and Tasigur (both see no play really) its Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Vendilion Clique which are more important.
Keep in mind that the most relevant misses on Cast Down aren't PKN and Tasigur (both see no play really) its Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Vendilion Clique which are more important.
I'm not sure if I like the Flayers on this particular list.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Looks nice. I also replaced the bog with the cleric for good.
Am testing the deck with 2 forests and 2 swamp instead of 1 plains (I find it is actually better against blood moon that way since your game plan involves having a forest and a swamp and you can go from there). I never like drawing a plains since your manabase at curve 4 should be able to produce GGBBW and we already have ghost quarter. Need more testing anyway.
I like the choke (played up to 2 sb at one point) but ill stick with thrun for now since he is tutorable
Liliana the last hope is looking quite good in this meta for me. Trying one extra on the sb.
How has the surgical been working for you? Haven't had much use for it lately, nihil spellbomb is working better against most decks for me.
There is also the option of cutting an eidolon and a choke for more gaddocks, I think he really is our best card in the UW control and some other matchups.
Eidolon is better at some matchups and is useful at places where gaddock isen't though (living end for example, which is a nightmare matchup)
Golgari charm is indeed a house, best change from my GP list in my opinion.
Looks nice. I also replaced the bog with the cleric for good.
Am testing the deck with 2 forests and 2 swamp instead of 1 plains (I find it is actually better against blood moon that way since your game plan involves having a forest and a swamp and you can go from there). I never like drawing a plains since your manabase at curve 4 should be able to produce GGBBW and we already have ghost quarter. Need more testing anyway.
I like the choke (played up to 2 sb at one point) but ill stick with thrun for now since he is tutorable
Liliana the last hope is looking quite good in this meta for me. Trying one extra on the sb.
How has the surgical been working for you? Haven't had much use for it lately, nihil spellbomb is working better against most decks for me.
There is also the option of cutting an eidolon and a choke for more gaddocks, I think he really is our best card in the UW control and some other matchups.
Eidolon is better at some matchups and is useful at places where gaddock isen't though (living end for example, which is a nightmare matchup)
Golgari charm is indeed a house, best change from my GP list in my opinion.
Cheers
what do u guys think of spirit of the labyrinth? it shuts down cantrips from tron, uw control, and mardu, and hollow one. it blocks mishra's bauble but u can set it up so you draw next turn.
Spirit of Labyrinth is pretty flimsy tbh, I don't expect it to be good against Tron nevermind anything really. It only really shuts off eggs on their turn but they'll still be able to crack them on your turn and it won't shut off their cantrips like Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Only relevant thing that might shutt off, off the top of my head, probably are Jace, Teferi, Serum Visions and Faithless Looting but it's also a nonbo with Baubles. Like it won't even shut off bob even. I don't think modern really has good cantrips that card is worth playing. That card also won't make the Tron matchup any better and I feel the deck's already favoured against Mardu tbh.
fair point. just thought it might replace kataki because it doesn't hit alot of decks right now. spirit of labyrinth also hits kci decks too. and its flimziness only applies on lightning bolt decks. i mean it also as flimzy as kataki. i just find its a more proactive way to shut down a deck. hits hollow one hard and vengevine. won today with it blocking ancestral vision. and hits storm and dredge too but ofcouse they have removal for it.
Looking at Caleb Scherer's list here, it hits Serum Visions and Manamorphose. Remand, Repeal and Opt are likely to be instant speed. Dies to grapeshot too.
Kataki's good against affinity, lantern and other artifact decks like Blue Steel, Thopter-sword. It also might do some work if KCI has Sai, Master Thopterist in 60 too, that's been showing up lately.
you're right but even tho its instant speed. they can't chain it so it still hits it right?
and lantern and afinity doesnt get played much now. hollowone and uw and bridgevine gets played alot tho. even dredge.
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4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Treetop Village
1 Ghost Quarter
Creatures [12]
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Flayer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Siege Rhino
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Grisly Salvage
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Damnation
1 Golgari Charm
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Shriekmaw
Rounds 1 and 2 where not relevant at all unfortunately, it was 2 budget/not good decks at all, a Isochron's Scepter deck and Modern Belcher. Both easy 2-0.
Round 3: Against Valakut. In game 1 he was stuck on 5 lands while having some Titans and Scapehifts in hand. I got a good clock going with an early Grim Flayer and then landed a LoTV, chipping away his cards in hand. I had a Path for the first Titan at the ready, so I had enough of time before I would have get killed. Game 2 was pretty nuts, as I had a pretty good turn of Thoughtseizing one Titan, deploying Fulminator to blow up a Valakut and extracting it with Surgical. There was a second titan in hand for my opponent but I could handle that easily with a Shriekmaw. Then I ran him over with Flayers.
Round 4: Against Eldrazi Tron. Ended up loosing that one, although I forced it to game 3 before. But unfortunatly I was stuck on 2 lands in that one, which was the only time I had mana issues coming from 19 lands only. It didn't feel terrible, since I could operate very well on 2 mana only. I had hand disruption, Gaddock Teeg for his Karns/Ugins and 4/4 Flayers to trade with opposing TKS. However, I would have needed a third land to hit LoTV on the table, but I didn't and my opponent only topdecked Smashers.
Round 5: Against Affinity, not much so say here, was an easy 2-0. Always great to face good matchups.
Overall I really like the deck atm as it is. Could not say I want 20 lands right now, so I am sticking with 19 lands and see how it develops. But from my few FNMs and playtesting it felt okay. I am not sure on Anafenza, maybe I will play the 4th Souls in her spot, but I keep her as well for now.
I think Abzan Traverse is the best Abzan build atm. If you are opting for the Reid Duke approach, in my mind there is no reason why you shouldn't play Mardu Pyro instead. However, if you know the Reid Duke approach best, its certainly one of the better choices, since being familiar with a deck is very important in Modern. You can tweak the list according to your needs for sure.
But overall, I would advice you to at least have a look at Abzan Traverse.
I cannot say much about traditional Abzan because I never played it much. I used to play BG rock and I find the traverse build far superior.
In any case, go with a deck you know well and are comfortable with, Im sure Abzan or BG can still pull results.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1251146#paper
Without any experience with Abzan, I guess that it may have a slightly better Tron matchup (if you run Paths), a little bit more grindier (Souls), but with less reach and efficient removal (no K-Command / Terminate). Perhaps the question I should be asking is: is Souls better than BBE?
So my 2 cents on this is: Right now you have to find a reason to actually not play Mardu, not Jund. Mardu is just a better Jund imo (only bad matchup is Tron really).
However, since Mardu is on everyone's radar, you have to beat Mardu also (besides the usual Hollow One, KCI, Tron, COntrol and Humans). Abzan has a great advantage when it comes to the Traverse build: It has a favourable Humans, Mardu and Hollow One matchup. Tron can be more beaten than Mardu can imo and this leaves you only with the control matchup, which is worse for Abzan traverse compared to Mardu. So its a metacall imo. If you expect much Control, Abzan traverse is just tough to play, and you are better off Mardu (also Jund even). As for beating Mardu, Hollow One and Humans, Abzan Traverse is well suited for it.
Also BM is a house against Jeskai specifically, its one single reason its a good matchup for Mardu.
In that sense I think GY hate in general impacts Abzan Traverse more than Mardu. And Control having access to RIP means its quite scary on the Abzan side imo.
I haven't had any success with Jund so far (got paired against Bogles, Scapeshift, and some other roughs matchups) lately, so I was considering switching to Abzan and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'll go back to Storm hahah
One more question, is Whispers of Emrakul too slow/unreliable?
It might be worth noting that Banana King is the only one that both Cast Down and Fatal Push miss.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
3 Blooming Marsh
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Siege Rhino
2 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Shambling Vent
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Temple Garden
2 Swamp
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
3 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Damnation
I'm not sure if I like the Flayers on this particular list.
Am testing the deck with 2 forests and 2 swamp instead of 1 plains (I find it is actually better against blood moon that way since your game plan involves having a forest and a swamp and you can go from there). I never like drawing a plains since your manabase at curve 4 should be able to produce GGBBW and we already have ghost quarter. Need more testing anyway.
I like the choke (played up to 2 sb at one point) but ill stick with thrun for now since he is tutorable
Liliana the last hope is looking quite good in this meta for me. Trying one extra on the sb.
How has the surgical been working for you? Haven't had much use for it lately, nihil spellbomb is working better against most decks for me.
There is also the option of cutting an eidolon and a choke for more gaddocks, I think he really is our best card in the UW control and some other matchups.
Eidolon is better at some matchups and is useful at places where gaddock isen't though (living end for example, which is a nightmare matchup)
Golgari charm is indeed a house, best change from my GP list in my opinion.
Cheers
what do u guys think of spirit of the labyrinth? it shuts down cantrips from tron, uw control, and mardu, and hollow one. it blocks mishra's bauble but u can set it up so you draw next turn.
fair point. just thought it might replace kataki because it doesn't hit alot of decks right now. spirit of labyrinth also hits kci decks too. and its flimziness only applies on lightning bolt decks. i mean it also as flimzy as kataki. i just find its a more proactive way to shut down a deck. hits hollow one hard and vengevine. won today with it blocking ancestral vision. and hits storm and dredge too but ofcouse they have removal for it.
you're right but even tho its instant speed. they can't chain it so it still hits it right?
and lantern and afinity doesnt get played much now. hollowone and uw and bridgevine gets played alot tho. even dredge.