Hello everyone, Im the one who made it to the finals on GP Sao Paulo.
Guitar90x contacted me, 15th card is indeed nihil spellbomb.
I quite like the deck as it is, unfortunately lost in the finals to Mardu which is a good matchup. I figured one of the few ways Mardu can beat me is through a blood moon and was maybe overly careful of it? Good game nonetheless.
Feel free to ask me any question and good luck everyone with this archetype, I think its really solid right now as it has very good hollow one, mardu, humans and affinity matchups. Grave hate does hurt, but the deck has many ways around it.
Hello everyone, Im the one who made it to the finals on GP Sao Paulo.
Guitar90x contacted me, 15th card is indeed nihil spellbomb.
I quite like the deck as it is, unfortunately lost in the finals to Mardu which is a good matchup. I figured one of the few ways Mardu can beat me is through a blood moon and was maybe overly careful of it? Good game nonetheless.
Feel free to ask me any question and good luck everyone with this archetype, I think its really solid right now as it has very good hollow one, mardu, humans and affinity matchups. Grave hate does hurt, but the deck has many ways around it.
Cheers
Welcome to the forums, nice to have you here! I will add your list to the primer.
Why do you think your matchup agaisnt Mardu is a good one?
The Mardu matchup is good because of trample. You have 6 big tramplers, and their removal isen't the best against them. Shouldn't be hard to find 2-3 tramplers with traverse etc, and its hard to lose from there. You can get overrun by flying tokens or screwed by blood moon, but it was one of my most favorable matchups during testing.
Hollow one is probably the easiest of all matchups. Burning inquiry actually favors you a lot of times. Once you get a 4/5 or 5/6 goyf on the battlefield (which shouldn't be hard) you get to block the most important threats. Rhino also very good here.
Just play the control game on this one. Kill those flameblade adepts (they can get out of control very quickly) and put a blocker to control the game. Post sb bring in bojuka bog (go to 20 lands), spellbomb, 1-2 surgical, 2 damnation, reclamation sage and a maelstrom pulse. Play the control game. Leyline of the Void is their best tool against you (and really the best card against this deck), it really hurts but you can still win (goyfs, rhinos, rec sage, pulse etc).
Humans is similar to hollow one, you have plenty of removal and 2 damnations post sb. Mostly I lost to a combination of freebooters and sin collectors taking my spot removal/damnations. Good MU in any case
Control is slightly unfavored. UW depends mostly on Liliana, otherwise it will be tough. It's hard to set delirium against them since you have few targets for your instants, and your creatures get exiled. Liliana does a LOT of work though, so it's your main card in this matchup. Gaddock teeg is amazing post sb.
Jeskai is less dependent on Lilianas, your threats can evade most of their removal, its still a tough grindy game, but you can come out favored (I beat 2 Jeskais on the GP pretty convincingly, but they weren't great players)
In any case, one of the things I like about this archetype is that every match is winnable, even if unfavorable
MU's during GP were: 2 Eldra Tron, 2 G Tron, 3 scapeshift, 2 jeskai, 2 hollow one, 2 humans, 1 As foretold/living end, 1 Jund, 1 affinity, 2 pyromancer
The Mardu matchup is good because of trample. You have 6 big tramplers, and their removal isen't the best against them. Shouldn't be hard to find 2-3 tramplers with traverse etc, and its hard to lose from there. You can get overrun by flying tokens or screwed by blood moon, but it was one of my most favorable matchups during testing.
Hollow one is probably the easiest of all matchups. Burning inquiry actually favors you a lot of times. Once you get a 4/5 or 5/6 goyf on the battlefield (which shouldn't be hard) you get to block the most important threats. Rhino also very good here.
Just play the control game on this one. Kill those flameblade adepts (they can get out of control very quickly) and put a blocker to control the game. Post sb bring in bojuka bog (go to 20 lands), spellbomb, 1-2 surgical, 2 damnation, reclamation sage and a maelstrom pulse. Play the control game. Leyline of the Void is their best tool against you (and really the best card against this deck), it really hurts but you can still win (goyfs, rhinos, rec sage, pulse etc).
Humans is similar to hollow one, you have plenty of removal and 2 damnations post sb. Mostly I lost to a combination of freebooters and sin collectors taking my spot removal/damnations. Good MU in any case
Control is slightly unfavored. UW depends mostly on Liliana, otherwise it will be tough. It's hard to set delirium against them since you have few targets for your instants, and your creatures get exiled. Liliana does a LOT of work though, so it's your main card in this matchup. Gaddock teeg is amazing post sb.
Jeskai is less dependent on Lilianas, your threats can evade most of their removal, its still a tough grindy game, but you can come out favored (I beat 2 Jeskais on the GP pretty convincingly, but they weren't great players)
In any case, one of the things I like about this archetype is that every match is winnable, even if unfavorable
MU's during GP were: 2 Eldra Tron, 2 G Tron, 3 scapeshift, 2 jeskai, 2 hollow one, 2 humans, 1 As foretold/living end, 1 Jund, 1 affinity, 2 pyromancer
the matchups you faced weren't very easy by the looks of it, but u manage to make a good finish. I know you already told me this but what changes would you make on your deck right now.
and how important path to exile on the deck? is the extra determinal to our game plan? is exile effect important?
"the matchups you faced weren't very easy by the looks of it, but u manage to make a good finish. I know you already told me this but what changes would you make on your deck right now.
and how important path to exile on the deck? is the extra determinal to our game plan? is exile effect important?"
Yep, some pretty rough matchups actually, but managed to pull it trough. Mostly I like the deck as it is, I just wanted a slot for one more basic, and maybe swap the pulse with a lingering souls since pulse goes in pretty much 100% of the games. But I like it as it is.
Path is very important, its just so good, its there to remove the most troublesome creatures against your deck, the land doesn't matter in the mid-late game. I used to run 3, but cut 1 for a brutality, 3 is too much is think
I think you are right about Golgari Charm, it really does a lot of things the deck wants, it should probably be on the 75. Cutting a damnation? Maybe you are right, but Im fond of the second one to be honest. Its main goal is just to make sure you actually draw one, its the card you want the most in many matchups.
To be honest I dont think I would have made it to the top 8 without the second copy, considering drawing one was fundamental to 2 games throughout the tournament, but you might be correct here
Also, I do bring (at least) 1 surgical in against UW control, If you can remove some of their threats/outs your gaddock and thrun can be a lot more efficient.
playtest abit today and kataki is not so nessesary with the meta right now. I've replaced kataki with manglehorn (good against tron, adneaseum, affinity, hollow one, kci). I find kataki doesn't do anything on tron.
since i dont have gaddock teeg yet. i've been playing with phyrexian revoker and its good against tron, uw control, afinity, kci and adneseum. i believe teeg is still better but with the combination of manglehorn, reclamation sage, and pyrexian revoker, matchups gets really better. bad against jeskai tho.
also playing 4 basics now and 1 fast land. tried twilight mire and its a bad idea. u got some hands when u have colorless and cant cast spells. having 9 fetches is good tho.
and do we have sideboard guide for kci? just wanted to compare how I sideboard from jund to abzan.
anyone know a good list we can tutor for Traverse the Ulvenwald. seems like there's a lot now we can tutor for if we want to beat specific decks. Just searching some stuff and some i'm not familiar with :
I liked the Walking Ballista idea. In a similar (yet different) vein of synergistic pinging, I wanted to mention Darkblast. Unfortunately there’s just not enough targets for it to be relevant at the moment.
What cards in the sideboard are practically canonical right now? Like in Jund, for example, 3x Fulminator Mage is almost a given, with few exceptions. What cards in your SB do you never imagine leaving home without in any near future? I’m very unfamiliar with the deck and just haven’t played enough games to have a real idea of what our more-or-less tenured options are.
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Played a fair bit today. Golgari Charm now firmly in my 75, it solves a lot of the deck's needs (removed a damnation).
4th souls not really necessary, had thought about using Doran, the siege tower in that spot to have a nice threat that doesn't require the grave, but Anafenza prolly better since it hates on some archetypes and cards?
Also removed a blooming marsh for one more swamp
Manglehorn over kataki? Maybe, but kataki is still brutal against affinity, and probably a lot better against KCI too. Ill stick to kataki for now
Also, feel like 1 nihil spellbomb is really necessary, not using kambal on my list, feel like Eidolon is enough.
Congrats for the results man! Really impress by the list. Any words on Fulminator Mage? Why only 2 of them? Wouldn't the Tron matchup feel a little bit better with the third one?
Oh and by the way, thanks for sharing the 15th card of your sideboard!
I know you can tutor up for it but doing it on T2 to set it up on T3 seems pretty hard. Having a instant in the yard seems though against Tron. The third copy would ensure you get it on time.
Congrats for the results man! Really impress by the list. Any words on Fulminator Mage? Why only 2 of them? Wouldn't the Tron matchup feel a little bit better with the third one?
Oh and by the way, thanks for sharing the 15th card of your sideboard!
Ty Sensei.
3rd fulminator would be nice, I just cannot find a slot for it (also doesn't feel that necessary). Tron is not a good matchup, but it's not that bad either if you know it well enough. Grim flayer and Goyf aren't slow clocks, discards and Gaddock Teeg can punish them, and as Brightmist said, you can tutor for Ghost Quarter with traverse, thats a pretty common play since it can be done on turn 3. Beat 2 Trons at the GP (atually the same guy twice, met him in round 2 and in the semifinals, he was a good player).
I think the manabase is indeed a bit risky at 19 lands with GQ and plains (plains is really awful in the deck, is it worth cutting it even with blood moon out? You mostly want to destroy the blood moon anyway, but still, seems foolish not to have access to a plains when you have traverse).
Used to play 20 lands, but I keep the bojuka on the sb to go up if needed. Also, guess I'm not that shy about using traverse to fetch for a land if needed. Ghost Quarter should definately be maindeck in my opinion.
I don't like cutting the push for a land, but maybe it's fine? Let me know further on.
And how would you describe a good average keepable opening hand versus Tron? And also, if not so much to ask, what's your sideboard tech against it? In ans Out.
Played a fair bit today. Golgari Charm now firmly in my 75, it solves a lot of the deck's needs (removed a damnation).
4th souls not really necessary, had thought about using Doran, the siege tower in that spot to have a nice threat that doesn't require the grave, but Anafenza prolly better since it hates on some archetypes and cards?
Also removed a blooming marsh for one more swamp
Manglehorn over kataki? Maybe, but kataki is still brutal against affinity, and probably a lot better against KCI too. Ill stick to kataki for now
Also, feel like 1 nihil spellbomb is really necessary, not using kambal on my list, feel like Eidolon is enough.
Cheers
I really love the idea of playing Anafenza, she is a really potent threat and has some free hate included with her.
I mostly second what Brightmist said, but I also add Thrun post sb and I also keep LtLH.
Thrun is pretty good at evading Karn, and it also regenerates which is great against Oblivion Stone. You can take 1 rhino out if you need the slot.
Liliana the last hope is pretty situational, but it is better than other cards since you can -2 to get a fulminator back and that can be game winning, that's her main role.
You can leave collective brutality and/or 1-2 souls post sb depending on your configuration, they're not good but have some limited use (brutality can take tutors and All is dust for example).
Take scavenging ooze out, he's just a 2/2 here.
Maybe Golgari charm regeneration deserves a spot post sb? We do have some pretty bad cards for this matchup so you probably could fit it in.
Sure, killing them fast is our ideal plan, but often you have to grind through a Karn or O-stone in order to win (not to mention post sb Tusks etc).
Thrun is definately not a very good card here, but we have to work with what we have. I find him to be better than some other cards, and I would lean towards a 1/1 Rhino/Thrun split than a 2 Rhino if that's the case. It's debatable though, the 3 damage might be more relevant, and its a fringe advantage in any case, but I prefer having Thrun in rather than out.
Same reasoning goes for the other cards I mentioned, they are not good anti tron cards, but they might be better than some alternatives (souls may seem pretty bad for example, but its the only card apart from Thrun that can single handedly pressure through a Karn).
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Guitar90x contacted me, 15th card is indeed nihil spellbomb.
I quite like the deck as it is, unfortunately lost in the finals to Mardu which is a good matchup. I figured one of the few ways Mardu can beat me is through a blood moon and was maybe overly careful of it? Good game nonetheless.
Feel free to ask me any question and good luck everyone with this archetype, I think its really solid right now as it has very good hollow one, mardu, humans and affinity matchups. Grave hate does hurt, but the deck has many ways around it.
Cheers
Welcome to the forums, nice to have you here! I will add your list to the primer.
Why do you think your matchup agaisnt Mardu is a good one?
How do you beat Humans and Hollow One?
Can you beat Control consistantly?
Anyway, congratz on the finish again!
Hollow one is probably the easiest of all matchups. Burning inquiry actually favors you a lot of times. Once you get a 4/5 or 5/6 goyf on the battlefield (which shouldn't be hard) you get to block the most important threats. Rhino also very good here.
Just play the control game on this one. Kill those flameblade adepts (they can get out of control very quickly) and put a blocker to control the game. Post sb bring in bojuka bog (go to 20 lands), spellbomb, 1-2 surgical, 2 damnation, reclamation sage and a maelstrom pulse. Play the control game. Leyline of the Void is their best tool against you (and really the best card against this deck), it really hurts but you can still win (goyfs, rhinos, rec sage, pulse etc).
Humans is similar to hollow one, you have plenty of removal and 2 damnations post sb. Mostly I lost to a combination of freebooters and sin collectors taking my spot removal/damnations. Good MU in any case
Control is slightly unfavored. UW depends mostly on Liliana, otherwise it will be tough. It's hard to set delirium against them since you have few targets for your instants, and your creatures get exiled. Liliana does a LOT of work though, so it's your main card in this matchup. Gaddock teeg is amazing post sb.
Jeskai is less dependent on Lilianas, your threats can evade most of their removal, its still a tough grindy game, but you can come out favored (I beat 2 Jeskais on the GP pretty convincingly, but they weren't great players)
In any case, one of the things I like about this archetype is that every match is winnable, even if unfavorable
MU's during GP were: 2 Eldra Tron, 2 G Tron, 3 scapeshift, 2 jeskai, 2 hollow one, 2 humans, 1 As foretold/living end, 1 Jund, 1 affinity, 2 pyromancer
the matchups you faced weren't very easy by the looks of it, but u manage to make a good finish. I know you already told me this but what changes would you make on your deck right now.
and how important path to exile on the deck? is the extra determinal to our game plan? is exile effect important?
"the matchups you faced weren't very easy by the looks of it, but u manage to make a good finish. I know you already told me this but what changes would you make on your deck right now.
and how important path to exile on the deck? is the extra determinal to our game plan? is exile effect important?"
Yep, some pretty rough matchups actually, but managed to pull it trough. Mostly I like the deck as it is, I just wanted a slot for one more basic, and maybe swap the pulse with a lingering souls since pulse goes in pretty much 100% of the games. But I like it as it is.
Path is very important, its just so good, its there to remove the most troublesome creatures against your deck, the land doesn't matter in the mid-late game. I used to run 3, but cut 1 for a brutality, 3 is too much is think
To be honest I dont think I would have made it to the top 8 without the second copy, considering drawing one was fundamental to 2 games throughout the tournament, but you might be correct here
Also, I do bring (at least) 1 surgical in against UW control, If you can remove some of their threats/outs your gaddock and thrun can be a lot more efficient.
since i dont have gaddock teeg yet. i've been playing with phyrexian revoker and its good against tron, uw control, afinity, kci and adneseum. i believe teeg is still better but with the combination of manglehorn, reclamation sage, and pyrexian revoker, matchups gets really better. bad against jeskai tho.
also playing 4 basics now and 1 fast land. tried twilight mire and its a bad idea. u got some hands when u have colorless and cant cast spells. having 9 fetches is good tho.
and do we have sideboard guide for kci? just wanted to compare how I sideboard from jund to abzan.
I don't, since I don't know what the hell KCI even means.
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Thanks.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
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Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
What cards in the sideboard are practically canonical right now? Like in Jund, for example, 3x Fulminator Mage is almost a given, with few exceptions. What cards in your SB do you never imagine leaving home without in any near future? I’m very unfamiliar with the deck and just haven’t played enough games to have a real idea of what our more-or-less tenured options are.
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EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
4th souls not really necessary, had thought about using Doran, the siege tower in that spot to have a nice threat that doesn't require the grave, but Anafenza prolly better since it hates on some archetypes and cards?
Also removed a blooming marsh for one more swamp
Manglehorn over kataki? Maybe, but kataki is still brutal against affinity, and probably a lot better against KCI too. Ill stick to kataki for now
Also, feel like 1 nihil spellbomb is really necessary, not using kambal on my list, feel like Eidolon is enough.
Cheers
Congrats for the results man! Really impress by the list. Any words on Fulminator Mage? Why only 2 of them? Wouldn't the Tron matchup feel a little bit better with the third one?
Oh and by the way, thanks for sharing the 15th card of your sideboard!
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Ty Sensei.
3rd fulminator would be nice, I just cannot find a slot for it (also doesn't feel that necessary). Tron is not a good matchup, but it's not that bad either if you know it well enough. Grim flayer and Goyf aren't slow clocks, discards and Gaddock Teeg can punish them, and as Brightmist said, you can tutor for Ghost Quarter with traverse, thats a pretty common play since it can be done on turn 3. Beat 2 Trons at the GP (atually the same guy twice, met him in round 2 and in the semifinals, he was a good player).
I think the manabase is indeed a bit risky at 19 lands with GQ and plains (plains is really awful in the deck, is it worth cutting it even with blood moon out? You mostly want to destroy the blood moon anyway, but still, seems foolish not to have access to a plains when you have traverse).
Used to play 20 lands, but I keep the bojuka on the sb to go up if needed. Also, guess I'm not that shy about using traverse to fetch for a land if needed. Ghost Quarter should definately be maindeck in my opinion.
I don't like cutting the push for a land, but maybe it's fine? Let me know further on.
And how would you describe a good average keepable opening hand versus Tron? And also, if not so much to ask, what's your sideboard tech against it? In ans Out.
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I really love the idea of playing Anafenza, she is a really potent threat and has some free hate included with her.
Thrun is pretty good at evading Karn, and it also regenerates which is great against Oblivion Stone. You can take 1 rhino out if you need the slot.
Liliana the last hope is pretty situational, but it is better than other cards since you can -2 to get a fulminator back and that can be game winning, that's her main role.
You can leave collective brutality and/or 1-2 souls post sb depending on your configuration, they're not good but have some limited use (brutality can take tutors and All is dust for example).
Take scavenging ooze out, he's just a 2/2 here.
Maybe Golgari charm regeneration deserves a spot post sb? We do have some pretty bad cards for this matchup so you probably could fit it in.
Thrun is definately not a very good card here, but we have to work with what we have. I find him to be better than some other cards, and I would lean towards a 1/1 Rhino/Thrun split than a 2 Rhino if that's the case. It's debatable though, the 3 damage might be more relevant, and its a fringe advantage in any case, but I prefer having Thrun in rather than out.
Same reasoning goes for the other cards I mentioned, they are not good anti tron cards, but they might be better than some alternatives (souls may seem pretty bad for example, but its the only card apart from Thrun that can single handedly pressure through a Karn).