tasigur too is great as a 1-off when you need to traverse for an early blocker.
If you can Traverse for a Tasigur it means you already have delirium. You can instead Traverse for a Tarmogoyf that will be at least a 4/5 as well, with room to grow, and won't shrink your graveyard in the process. I really, really like Tasigur, just not in the Traverse shell.
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Obviously it’s really early to make a big call here, but could this be a major game changer? I can see running a split of this and Decay; why not both? Lots of Rock lists are already packing 3-4 Decays as it is. Does this make the Path maindeck in Abzan less of a downside if we’re already taxing their basics with this? Field of Ruin? Settle the Wreckage?!?
The possibilities are legion. Maybe it will revolutionize BGx, maybe it will be just another interactive tool, but either way I am very pleased.
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I used to play BGx but took a hiatus after some metagame shifts. Assassin's Trophy solves some significant archetype issues and I'm definitely back on board. Let the optimization begin!!
First is the question of colors. I'm leaning away from Jund and towards either Abzan or BG Rock for a few reasons. First, I think the powerful white SB cards are better-positioned now than Bolt/KCommand/BBE. Stuff like Silence is just so much better against KCI and Hardened Scales than the Jund anti-artifact options. Bolt is a strong answer in this metagame, but I feel it doesn't do much against the GY-based aggressive decks that fade one-for-one removal. Contrast that with Path, Settle the Wreckage, and the other white-based GY hate, not to mention Souls to stop go-wide aggro. Finally, although BBE/Bolt was a strong answer to Jace/Teferi, Trophy solves that all on its own. All of this pushes me away from Jund. BG Rock vs. Abzan is a bit of a tossup, and I can see merits for both strategies depending on the metagame.
Where are other BGx veterans and returning players falling on the spectrum? What shell would you start with? I'd really like to see Duke's Abzan list from GP Detroit, which is probably where I'd start.
I'd really like to see Duke's Abzan list from GP Detroit, which is probably where I'd start.
It should be pretty close to the one he piloted in this video or the one he 5-0 a league recently. These two lists differ slightly from each other.
If I have to guess, I would say that his list was heavily influenced and toned for the Team Unified GP last weekend.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
The thing that pleases me most about Assassin's Trophy is that we will be able to replace four bulk-rate cards with $25+ cards. The deck has gotten so cheap with the decline in Tarmogoyf's price it was getting embarrassing.
But seriously. . .
It's amazing to me that Wizards prints so much crap and then throws in something like this.
It's a huge boost for all BGx decks but especially Rock and it narrows the gap between it and the more popular Jund and Junk, if indeed a gap really exists.
The only reason I can see to not run four of this new card in Rock is to limit the effectiveness of Meddling Mage, which - in case you haven't noticed, is quite popular these days.
It's hard to overstate how much more effective GQ Rock will be against certain strategies with Assassin's Trophy. Eight main-deck answers to Tron and four more side-board. It's enough to make one consider Surgical Extraction main-deck.
I'm predominantly on MTGO and not paper, so keep that in mind when I'm posting. Online, I feel like there's enough big mana opposition that I don't necessarily want to play a mana denial strategy. Between Infect's return, UW Control (actually favorable against big mana), and various other aggressive/linear decks, Gx Tron feels like it's taken a hit recently. This has extended to Amulet Bloom and other competing big mana strategies. I'm tempted to ride this shift and not commit too heavily to Quarters/Fields/Trophies at the expense of the powerful, versatile white cards. Notably, I'd feel really bad leaving home without 3-4 Stony Silence, a card that is just lights-out against such an important subset of the metagame. Souls is also so strong in this metagame. That draws me to Abzan over BG Rock.
Looking at Duke's recent lists, I see some clear opportunities to go -1 Decay, -1 Cut, -1 Pulse and +3 on Trophy. That still leaves 1 Pulse and 1 Decay, which is a diversity of answers that I prefer in Modern, but I could see -1 Pulse for +1 Trophy as well. How are other people planning to diversify their removal?
Similarly, how are people planning to diversify their threats? On the one hand, I like Trackers for their grinding in a metagame that might continue to slow down and keep favoring incremental advantages. On the other hand, I want to be able to turn the corner quickly backed up with our newfound disruption, which has me leaning towards Flayers. Choices, choices. What are others planning to do?
Your cuts are exactly my thinking at this stage. Pulse and decay will still have use. I am cutting down one path as I play it main. I am running Rhino and Bobs and wont be changing that for now but I am sure it will.
In the side I can see cutting down to 0-2 Fulminators. I also think surgical extraction is a must. For example blowing up Valukut and then extracting them all is nice
I used to play BGx but took a hiatus after some metagame shifts. Assassin's Trophy solves some significant archetype issues and I'm definitely back on board. Let the optimization begin!!
First is the question of colors. I'm leaning away from Jund and towards either Abzan or BG Rock for a few reasons. First, I think the powerful white SB cards are better-positioned now than Bolt/KCommand/BBE. Stuff like Silence is just so much better against KCI and Hardened Scales than the Jund anti-artifact options. Bolt is a strong answer in this metagame, but I feel it doesn't do much against the GY-based aggressive decks that fade one-for-one removal. Contrast that with Path, Settle the Wreckage, and the other white-based GY hate, not to mention Souls to stop go-wide aggro. Finally, although BBE/Bolt was a strong answer to Jace/Teferi, Trophy solves that all on its own. All of this pushes me away from Jund. BG Rock vs. Abzan is a bit of a tossup, and I can see merits for both strategies depending on the metagame.
Where are other BGx veterans and returning players falling on the spectrum? What shell would you start with? I'd really like to see Duke's Abzan list from GP Detroit, which is probably where I'd start.
I would totally go with a reid duke kind of approach, which is mainly straight GB with a small splash for Souls and SB cards. Also I think any good list will start with 4 Trophies absolutely.
Your cuts are exactly my thinking at this stage. Pulse and decay will still have use. I am cutting down one path as I play it main. I am running Rhino and Bobs and wont be changing that for now but I am sure it will.
Yeah, I agree that Pulse and Decay still have a place, especially Pulse which will randomly create blowouts. Decay too, both against DS strategies and in not ramping opponents into bigger threats.
Not a huge fan of Rhinos anymore because we have so many strong instant-speed answers. I'd really hate to tap out for Rhino on T4 when I could tap for Ooze/Bob/Confidant/Souls flashback/etc. and hold up mana for Trophy/Decay/Push/Path/etc. T3 Tracker into an untap on T4 with Clue and answer mana also sounds amazing. Rhino really kills that curve for me.
In the side I can see cutting down to 0-2 Fulminators. I also think surgical extraction is a must. For example blowing up Valukut and then extracting them all is nice
Agree that Fulminator seems like an easy trim. 1 sounds about right, with a 4th Trophy in the SB. In general, I love that Trophy frees up SB space in a deck that is really dependent on refining its answers. This lets us double down on haymaker cards like Stony Silence and still have space for silver bullets.
The landbase is going to be a little tricky to optimize, and it’s probable that mine needs some tweaks. A delicate balance is to be struck between 1) having enough manlands to properly leverage our grinding power (I only have 3 and would like a 4th), 2) having enough land destruction to leverage Trophy (I have 4 and could see playing a 5th in the form of GQ), 3) having enough fetches to maximize Push and Tracker while making sure a land hits the bin for Goyf and Flayer (I have 5 but would ideally include a 6th), and the usual concerns of access to both colors, enough basics, enough lands that don’t EtB tapped etc. This is deceptively difficult to optimize, IMO.
Beyond that, there are a fair few one-ofs in the main, which may not be correct, but they’re all at least reasonable. Brutality in that role has always been strong. Spellbomb seems just as viable as ever after these changes. Eternal Witness has been a decent one-of in many Rock lists and I think her value goes up with Trophy around. And Kalitas is just fantastic in the current meta, no question of that. A lone Flayer may be a little weird, but I prefer diversifying the threats a little bit in this shell, so the Flayer makes an appearance over a 4th Bob/Tracker or a 3rd Scooze.
In the sideboard I’ve leaned a little more heavily into preparing for midrange mirrors, with some slightly unorthodox choices like a second Kalitas and a Garruk Relentless, and even considered a Phyrexian Arena. As others have noted, the efficacy of Surgical seems to have increased as well. I can’t wait to take this (and Abzan variants) for a spin!
I don't really see why you would want to play 2x Pulse main when having 4x Trophy. I also would play the full playset of push, you still need that T1 or end of opponent's T2 removal. Or early removal that doesn't ramp even.
I originally planned on moving a Pulse to the side, but when sitting down over the list I didn’t feel the need. Your point about Push may be correct, but even so I might consider moving other things to the side before Pulse, like the Brutality or the Spellbomb. Pulse’s 2-For-1 potential is still huge against a lot of decks, and then of course we have decks like Bridgevine, Mardu Pyromancer, and others where Pulse is often our best removal.
That said, I’m more than willing to move one to the side, im just not convinced it’s optimal.
Fulminator might be overkill, time will tell.
Agreed here for sure. I shaved one but left the others in because it’s hard to say at the moment whether he’s still warranted—but he’s been enormously valuable in the past, so in this case I deferred to the power of proven tech.
Remember that Trophy will be used against you too. Arena doesn't do anything immediately so might not be worth it anyway.
Maybe another LtLH can be added. It's easier to protect planeswalkers now, but it will be destroyed quicker by Trophy too.
Yep, all true. It all feels a bit like flailing in the dark, trying to anticipate the meta, but your point about Arena getting no value the turn it enters is probably enough to affirm the value of other grindy options like planeswalkers. A second Last Hope could indeed be the ticket.
i would probably play more Treetops and less Quagmire. Quagmire's ability seems pointless with this good of a removal suite, although might be needed for color fixing.
Treetop certainly offers a better rate in terms of P/T and abilities relative to cost. Without knowing exactly how it will all play out, I erred on the side of access to both colors, but being able to fit in a second Village would be incredible!
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With the addition of Trophy does that mean Bob can be a staple in Abzan now? I remember the argument was that the overall CMC of the deck was too high and that was the reason why Bob was always left out. Also, do we go into the old Noble Hierarch/ Flayer Builds of old?
With the addition of Trophy does that mean Bob can be a staple in Abzan now? I remember the argument was that the overall CMC of the deck was too high and that was the reason why Bob was always left out. Also, do we go into the old Noble Hierarch/ Flayer Builds of old?
I definitely want to run Bob. Few reasons. First, I'm not running Rhino or higher CMC threats. I don't want those removed by opposing Trophies, and I don't want to tap out for a threat on T4 or T5 when I have so many instant speed options I want to keep open. That shifts the curve down on its own. Second, if we're playing a more disruptive game plan, I want to reload after blowing up threats. The surest way to lose to Tron after killing Tower on T2 draw step is have no pressure or answers and allow them to naturally ramp to Wurmcoils and Stones.
I'm ambivalent about Flayer. I like that it can turn the corner and generate grind advantage. I like Traverse toolbox SB options. I don't like that it lines up poorly with Humans, H1, Bridgevine, Elves, Hardened Scales, and all these critter decks. I also don't want to run Bauble but am okay running Spellbomb. This pushes me towards a singleton Flayer. I'm actually more interested in upping my Tracker count to 2 both to keep up the grind and to make opposing Trophies worse or force them to hit Tracker.
Anytime a new presence is about to be felt, the fun police always come out and impose their will. The decks that are meant to leverage the meta with their high power level and the ones asking everyone the most questions. You dont want to next level them with the wrong answers so you have to anticipate that beating them involves preparing for the decks that will prey on you to enforce a proper circle of life. For this reason I choose cards like Batterskull and Fulminator: cards that will gain % vs Tron and Control so that a gatekeeper of the format doesnt push me out of praying on squishier decks
I think that by playing enough tech to fight KCI, I can go through with the GB plan to shore up the aforementioned Tron matchup. It is very crucial imo, because that's what's stopped this archetype from being a known quantity in the format years past. 4 Trophy/4 Field of Ruin/3 Fulminator Mage/1 Damping Sphere/2 Surgical/1 Extirpate. I feel that is a critical number of land hate that can be assimilated into a 75 without sacrificing too many game one scenarios against faster, more troublesome decks. Has me excited to play cards that will bring a much needed parity to Modern!
With the addition of Trophy does that mean Bob can be a staple in Abzan now? I remember the argument was that the overall CMC of the deck was too high and that was the reason why Bob was always left out. Also, do we go into the old Noble Hierarch/ Flayer Builds of old?
I definitely want to run Bob. Few reasons. First, I'm not running Rhino or higher CMC threats. I don't want those removed by opposing Trophies, and I don't want to tap out for a threat on T4 or T5 when I have so many instant speed options I want to keep open. That shifts the curve down on its own. Second, if we're playing a more disruptive game plan, I want to reload after blowing up threats. The surest way to lose to Tron after killing Tower on T2 draw step is have no pressure or answers and allow them to naturally ramp to Wurmcoils and Stones.
I'm ambivalent about Flayer. I like that it can turn the corner and generate grind advantage. I like Traverse toolbox SB options. I don't like that it lines up poorly with Humans, H1, Bridgevine, Elves, Hardened Scales, and all these critter decks. I also don't want to run Bauble but am okay running Spellbomb. This pushes me towards a singleton Flayer. I'm actually more interested in upping my Tracker count to 2 both to keep up the grind and to make opposing Trophies worse or force them to hit Tracker.
This is well said, and very similar to my own thought processes that have led me to start testing off with a lone Flayer. As I said in my previous post, him as a singleton looks a little weird on paper but may end up being pretty sweet.
@VoodooKick, looking like a strong build from the get-go. Batterskull is a spicy one, have you run it in Rock decks before? Our sideboards diverge a lot more than our main decks do, but that’s something that will probably take longer to “solve” (and be more meta-dependent, of course).
I really hate these 1-2 Flayer, 0-2 Bauble/Spellbomb builds. I think Reid Duke plays or played these and they're all just bad.
You should be either all in on traverse/flayer or just stay out, especially now that the 2 cmc slot is crowded with trophy.
...
No reason to play excess number of fulminators anymore now that trophy's in 75, 1 or 2 should be enough. Can just run more sweepers, discard, gy hate and grindy cards in the board instead. Like Jadine has 3 CB, 2 Duress and 2 Fulminators in the board on his latest article and I'm a big proponent of 3 CB in the 75 now that trophy is a thing since it shores up a ton of matchups. Even a duress or two on top of 3 CB is reasonable at this point. I highly suggest not to waste SB slots on narrow cards like choke or finks. Even damping sphere can just be cut at this point. Golgari Charm and Pulse are still reasonable singletons in the board.
If you don’t like Flayer at all for non-Traverse builds, and you don’t really like Bob (you say maximum of two in any configuration but seem to suggest he’s better left out entirely), what would you suggest for a creature suite? A third Scooze, perhaps? All four Trackers? What steps in for Flayer and Bob?
I’m also not sure I understand the logic behind avoiding narrow sideboard cards. If anything, Trophy seems to give us more license to dip into narrow but powerful hosers than we had before.
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Nothing wrong with playing powerful hosers like Stony Silence or Damnation but kitchen finks and choke aren't really powerful hosers and they're just too narrow to matter. Fulminator was really a concession to Tron and it was even too slow on the draw but it likely isn't necessary anymore since trophy should be able to play a similiar role.
I agree with you about Finks (not so much that it shouldn’t be played, just regarding your classification of it), but Choke is worth a little more consideration IMO. While it’s far from an I win button, the effect is still quite strong. More importantly, in BGx we have the tools to strip away or destroy their answers to a card like Choke, and we also have the clock to back up our hate.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you to some extent. I’ve been seeing Choke crop up as—for instance—a 2-of in Elf sideboards, and that doesn’t seem great. They don’t have the interaction to keep it around, they don’t want to drag out the game, and it can clunk up their otherwise explosive and synergistic openings. But the circumstances are different in BGx, and I think the card could easily merit a slot right now.
Trophy also has drawbacks so SB should be shaped in a way that it can remedy its drawbacks. Like it's really bad against Storm, similiar to path, so adding more discard and gy hate instead is fine.
I couldn’t agree more here! Makes total sense. We’re surely not able to cheat away from grave hate or discard slots in the 75 with Trophy as the fulcrum of our interaction.
Creature suite would probably be full set of trackers instead of flayers and bobs. 3rd scooze is reasonable. CB already synergizes nicely with souls in Abzan that it can be played in maindeck to fill those slots instead as a 2-of. 3 or 4 Trophies are already gonna fill up the rest of the 2 cmc slots and 6th 1 cmc removal like 2nd path is also perfectly reasonable. 1 or 2 Rhino are also just fine.
Souls and Rhino could fill out the Abzan threat slots for sure, but I was wondering more about Rock, where it seems like you’d be reaching without Bob or Flayer:
Something like that would be doable, I guess. But I don’t see any particular reason to be so down on Bob; he remains a must-answer threat for a majority of decks in the format.
Anyway, Bob has been splitting opinion among BGx players of all stripes over the last half year, so I’m happy to say to each his own as far as that goes. The good news is we’ll have people testing all sorts of Abzan and Rock variants once the new tech drops! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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What about the extra Path to Exile downside?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Obviously it’s really early to make a big call here, but could this be a major game changer? I can see running a split of this and Decay; why not both? Lots of Rock lists are already packing 3-4 Decays as it is. Does this make the Path maindeck in Abzan less of a downside if we’re already taxing their basics with this? Field of Ruin? Settle the Wreckage?!?
The possibilities are legion. Maybe it will revolutionize BGx, maybe it will be just another interactive tool, but either way I am very pleased.
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First is the question of colors. I'm leaning away from Jund and towards either Abzan or BG Rock for a few reasons. First, I think the powerful white SB cards are better-positioned now than Bolt/KCommand/BBE. Stuff like Silence is just so much better against KCI and Hardened Scales than the Jund anti-artifact options. Bolt is a strong answer in this metagame, but I feel it doesn't do much against the GY-based aggressive decks that fade one-for-one removal. Contrast that with Path, Settle the Wreckage, and the other white-based GY hate, not to mention Souls to stop go-wide aggro. Finally, although BBE/Bolt was a strong answer to Jace/Teferi, Trophy solves that all on its own. All of this pushes me away from Jund. BG Rock vs. Abzan is a bit of a tossup, and I can see merits for both strategies depending on the metagame.
Where are other BGx veterans and returning players falling on the spectrum? What shell would you start with? I'd really like to see Duke's Abzan list from GP Detroit, which is probably where I'd start.
If I have to guess, I would say that his list was heavily influenced and toned for the Team Unified GP last weekend.
But seriously. . .
It's amazing to me that Wizards prints so much crap and then throws in something like this.
It's a huge boost for all BGx decks but especially Rock and it narrows the gap between it and the more popular Jund and Junk, if indeed a gap really exists.
I will probably keep the Ghost Quarter Rock for a while replacing some number of Abrupt Decay, Cast Down, and possibly Fatal Push. I will probably stick with two Maelstrom Pulse for now.
The only reason I can see to not run four of this new card in Rock is to limit the effectiveness of Meddling Mage, which - in case you haven't noticed, is quite popular these days.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Looking at Duke's recent lists, I see some clear opportunities to go -1 Decay, -1 Cut, -1 Pulse and +3 on Trophy. That still leaves 1 Pulse and 1 Decay, which is a diversity of answers that I prefer in Modern, but I could see -1 Pulse for +1 Trophy as well. How are other people planning to diversify their removal?
Similarly, how are people planning to diversify their threats? On the one hand, I like Trackers for their grinding in a metagame that might continue to slow down and keep favoring incremental advantages. On the other hand, I want to be able to turn the corner quickly backed up with our newfound disruption, which has me leaning towards Flayers. Choices, choices. What are others planning to do?
In the side I can see cutting down to 0-2 Fulminators. I also think surgical extraction is a must. For example blowing up Valukut and then extracting them all is nice
I would totally go with a reid duke kind of approach, which is mainly straight GB with a small splash for Souls and SB cards. Also I think any good list will start with 4 Trophies absolutely.
Yeah, I agree that Pulse and Decay still have a place, especially Pulse which will randomly create blowouts. Decay too, both against DS strategies and in not ramping opponents into bigger threats.
Not a huge fan of Rhinos anymore because we have so many strong instant-speed answers. I'd really hate to tap out for Rhino on T4 when I could tap for Ooze/Bob/Confidant/Souls flashback/etc. and hold up mana for Trophy/Decay/Push/Path/etc. T3 Tracker into an untap on T4 with Clue and answer mana also sounds amazing. Rhino really kills that curve for me.
Agree that Fulminator seems like an easy trim. 1 sounds about right, with a 4th Trophy in the SB. In general, I love that Trophy frees up SB space in a deck that is really dependent on refining its answers. This lets us double down on haymaker cards like Stony Silence and still have space for silver bullets.
4x Field of Ruin
2x Forest
2x Hissing Quagmire
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Assassin's Trophy
2x Fatal Push
1x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Dark Confidant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Grim Flayer
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Tireless Tracker
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
And the sideboard:
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Fatal Push
1x Flaying Tendrils
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Golgari Charm
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Surgical Extraction
The landbase is going to be a little tricky to optimize, and it’s probable that mine needs some tweaks. A delicate balance is to be struck between 1) having enough manlands to properly leverage our grinding power (I only have 3 and would like a 4th), 2) having enough land destruction to leverage Trophy (I have 4 and could see playing a 5th in the form of GQ), 3) having enough fetches to maximize Push and Tracker while making sure a land hits the bin for Goyf and Flayer (I have 5 but would ideally include a 6th), and the usual concerns of access to both colors, enough basics, enough lands that don’t EtB tapped etc. This is deceptively difficult to optimize, IMO.
Beyond that, there are a fair few one-ofs in the main, which may not be correct, but they’re all at least reasonable. Brutality in that role has always been strong. Spellbomb seems just as viable as ever after these changes. Eternal Witness has been a decent one-of in many Rock lists and I think her value goes up with Trophy around. And Kalitas is just fantastic in the current meta, no question of that. A lone Flayer may be a little weird, but I prefer diversifying the threats a little bit in this shell, so the Flayer makes an appearance over a 4th Bob/Tracker or a 3rd Scooze.
In the sideboard I’ve leaned a little more heavily into preparing for midrange mirrors, with some slightly unorthodox choices like a second Kalitas and a Garruk Relentless, and even considered a Phyrexian Arena. As others have noted, the efficacy of Surgical seems to have increased as well. I can’t wait to take this (and Abzan variants) for a spin!
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I originally planned on moving a Pulse to the side, but when sitting down over the list I didn’t feel the need. Your point about Push may be correct, but even so I might consider moving other things to the side before Pulse, like the Brutality or the Spellbomb. Pulse’s 2-For-1 potential is still huge against a lot of decks, and then of course we have decks like Bridgevine, Mardu Pyromancer, and others where Pulse is often our best removal.
That said, I’m more than willing to move one to the side, im just not convinced it’s optimal.
Agreed here for sure. I shaved one but left the others in because it’s hard to say at the moment whether he’s still warranted—but he’s been enormously valuable in the past, so in this case I deferred to the power of proven tech.
Yep, all true. It all feels a bit like flailing in the dark, trying to anticipate the meta, but your point about Arena getting no value the turn it enters is probably enough to affirm the value of other grindy options like planeswalkers. A second Last Hope could indeed be the ticket.
Treetop certainly offers a better rate in terms of P/T and abilities relative to cost. Without knowing exactly how it will all play out, I erred on the side of access to both colors, but being able to fit in a second Village would be incredible!
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I definitely want to run Bob. Few reasons. First, I'm not running Rhino or higher CMC threats. I don't want those removed by opposing Trophies, and I don't want to tap out for a threat on T4 or T5 when I have so many instant speed options I want to keep open. That shifts the curve down on its own. Second, if we're playing a more disruptive game plan, I want to reload after blowing up threats. The surest way to lose to Tron after killing Tower on T2 draw step is have no pressure or answers and allow them to naturally ramp to Wurmcoils and Stones.
I'm ambivalent about Flayer. I like that it can turn the corner and generate grind advantage. I like Traverse toolbox SB options. I don't like that it lines up poorly with Humans, H1, Bridgevine, Elves, Hardened Scales, and all these critter decks. I also don't want to run Bauble but am okay running Spellbomb. This pushes me towards a singleton Flayer. I'm actually more interested in upping my Tracker count to 2 both to keep up the grind and to make opposing Trophies worse or force them to hit Tracker.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Batterskull
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Marsh Flats
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Damping Sphere
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Duress
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Damnation
I think a lot of your choices have to come down to a meta call
By my estimation, the decks will line up as such:
Lv 0 - Tron, KCI, Hollow One, Humans
Lv 1 - Midrange, Misc New Archetypes, Tier-2 mainstays
Lv 2 - Control, Burn, Cute Next-Next Level ideas
Anytime a new presence is about to be felt, the fun police always come out and impose their will. The decks that are meant to leverage the meta with their high power level and the ones asking everyone the most questions. You dont want to next level them with the wrong answers so you have to anticipate that beating them involves preparing for the decks that will prey on you to enforce a proper circle of life. For this reason I choose cards like Batterskull and Fulminator: cards that will gain % vs Tron and Control so that a gatekeeper of the format doesnt push me out of praying on squishier decks
I think that by playing enough tech to fight KCI, I can go through with the GB plan to shore up the aforementioned Tron matchup. It is very crucial imo, because that's what's stopped this archetype from being a known quantity in the format years past. 4 Trophy/4 Field of Ruin/3 Fulminator Mage/1 Damping Sphere/2 Surgical/1 Extirpate. I feel that is a critical number of land hate that can be assimilated into a 75 without sacrificing too many game one scenarios against faster, more troublesome decks. Has me excited to play cards that will bring a much needed parity to Modern!
This is well said, and very similar to my own thought processes that have led me to start testing off with a lone Flayer. As I said in my previous post, him as a singleton looks a little weird on paper but may end up being pretty sweet.
@VoodooKick, looking like a strong build from the get-go. Batterskull is a spicy one, have you run it in Rock decks before? Our sideboards diverge a lot more than our main decks do, but that’s something that will probably take longer to “solve” (and be more meta-dependent, of course).
If you don’t like Flayer at all for non-Traverse builds, and you don’t really like Bob (you say maximum of two in any configuration but seem to suggest he’s better left out entirely), what would you suggest for a creature suite? A third Scooze, perhaps? All four Trackers? What steps in for Flayer and Bob?
I’m also not sure I understand the logic behind avoiding narrow sideboard cards. If anything, Trophy seems to give us more license to dip into narrow but powerful hosers than we had before.
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I agree with you about Finks (not so much that it shouldn’t be played, just regarding your classification of it), but Choke is worth a little more consideration IMO. While it’s far from an I win button, the effect is still quite strong. More importantly, in BGx we have the tools to strip away or destroy their answers to a card like Choke, and we also have the clock to back up our hate.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you to some extent. I’ve been seeing Choke crop up as—for instance—a 2-of in Elf sideboards, and that doesn’t seem great. They don’t have the interaction to keep it around, they don’t want to drag out the game, and it can clunk up their otherwise explosive and synergistic openings. But the circumstances are different in BGx, and I think the card could easily merit a slot right now.
I couldn’t agree more here! Makes total sense. We’re surely not able to cheat away from grave hate or discard slots in the 75 with Trophy as the fulcrum of our interaction.
Souls and Rhino could fill out the Abzan threat slots for sure, but I was wondering more about Rock, where it seems like you’d be reaching without Bob or Flayer:
-4 Goyf
-4 Tracker
-3 Scooze
-1 Kalitas
-1 Eternal Witness
Something like that would be doable, I guess. But I don’t see any particular reason to be so down on Bob; he remains a must-answer threat for a majority of decks in the format.
Anyway, Bob has been splitting opinion among BGx players of all stripes over the last half year, so I’m happy to say to each his own as far as that goes. The good news is we’ll have people testing all sorts of Abzan and Rock variants once the new tech drops! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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