MTG Salvation

I think Kataki is too valuable of a silverbullet to pass on it.

Kataki is indeed narrow, but it is very devastating against certain archetypes, I prefer having him around, but please do test other cards and let us know how it goes for you.

What do you mean by does this deck not need tempo anymore? This is an attrition based value deck, tempo is certainly not what this deck wants to do by natural defintion.

I have to say, the last card I would cut from the deck would be goyfs. Lightning Bolt is the most played removal spell in the format and fatal push gets played less and less (due to its awkwardness and condition) which naturally means goyf is a great card to run in such a meta.

Keep in mind that turn 1 discard into turn 2 goyf is still the best recipe for a BGx deck to win a match overall. Its the best strategy vs. Tron. Goyfs are overall great against degenerate combo and big mana decks, and Goyfs heavily improve the hollow one matchup.

Goyf can hold the ground against Humans in order to prevent them from running us over with early large growing humans.

Liliana is actually also a card which i think is quite weak in the latest times in addition to push. Her -2 is incredibly unreliable (due to the fact that creature based decks don't play big and heavy creatures only, see hollow one, vengevine, humans etc) and her +1 is only great vs half of the format. Now, Lili is still strong, don't get me wrong, but this is certainly not the best time for her. This is pretty clear when you think about the fact that we see many decks play 3 copies only now.

So for those reasons I really don't see an argument for opting for a powering out Liliana kind of strategy.

what do you guys think of silent arbiter magus of the moat or magus of the tabernacle as a tutorable suedo damnation.

Quote from guitar90x »

Quote from Brightmist »

Spirit of Labyrinth is pretty flimsy tbh, I don't expect it to be good against Tron nevermind anything really. It only really shuts off eggs on their turn but they'll still be able to crack them on your turn and it won't shut off their cantrips like Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Only relevant thing that might shutt off, off the top of my head, probably are Jace, Teferi, Serum Visions and Faithless Looting but it's also a nonbo with Baubles. Like it won't even shut off bob even. I don't think modern really has good cantrips that card is worth playing. That card also won't make the Tron matchup any better and I feel the deck's already favoured against Mardu tbh.

fair point. just thought it might replace kataki because it doesn't hit alot of decks right now. spirit of labyrinth also hits kci decks too. and its flimziness only applies on lightning bolt decks. i mean it also as flimzy as kataki. i just find its a more proactive way to shut down a deck. hits hollow one hard and vengevine. won today with it blocking ancestral vision. and hits storm and dredge too but ofcouse they have removal for it.

played some tourney and spirit of the labyrinth is really good on living end and decks that cycles. seems good on few games I played.

Quote from guitar90x »

what do you guys think of silent arbiter magus of the moat or magus of the tabernacle as a tutorable suedo damnation.

I kind of like Magus of the Moat in Commander. I sold my Moats years ago.

GDS is always a tough matchup with very little room for error.

I sb in grave hate and keep most discards in. I find that the deck is a lot weaker if I don't have to fear the stubborn denials, hence the discards.

You can try cutting some flayers and playing a more control game, they have so much removal and their creatures are so big that flayer is kind of bad here.

Leave only 1 rhino in since draining 3 is often pretty bad (but its good to leave one to have some reach with traverse). Going with fulminator is an ok plan (not great though, they don't need that much mana). Choke seems strong.

Best card in this matchup is lingering souls, thats one of the downsides of cutting a lingering and grisly salvage, you'll lose a tad more to GDS.

Absolutely keep the decay in. Your priority is always dealing with the DS

Im using 2 spellbombs instead of 2 surgicals, so I bring those in (and now cleric). I guess Im not a fan of surgical here. It can stop a snapcaster and remove DS, but it won't prevent opp from casting angler, and it will leave you behind in the attrition war. Still, if you are only using one spellbomb you can try one surgical.

Choke seems a lot more powerful than fulminators, as I said, I would bring it in.

The decks that run multiple fields of ruin are the ones against which you don't have to protect your life total that much. I would say fetch more duals to get around that. Im liking the 2 forests, but im not sold on it still (you can also try another dual land here, maybe a shambling vent).

Quote from Brightmist »

They side in Staticaster and probably keep TBRs in too.

I don't think they should keep TBR. Naturally against a removal heavy deck its one of the first cards to cut. Its too much risk of a blowout to keep it imo. But yeah, I often see people mistakingly keeping it in in attrition based matchups.

Any thoughts on running Walking Ballista in the Abzan Traverse shell?

Some lists tend to run it recently at Grisly Salvage spot.

Are you Traverse guys worried about being on the receiving end of incidental hate, with Hollow One and Mardu Pyromancer still going strong, Bridgevine as the new hotness, and Leyline of the Void having spiked to the high heavens? I understand that the structure of the deck hedges against the prospect of hate to some degree, but still, is the meta growing more hostile?

I’m trying to find space in my traditional Abzan build for a maindeck Nihil Spellbomb, myself. Seems like a solid call at the moment.

Well yeah sure, if the Gy based decks are taking over, we receive considerable splash dmg as well. It might very well be that this could lead to a point where its unplayable until that changes again. I anyway feel Modern is so fast changing now that you need to be on an arsenal of different decks and hop on and off depending on the meta. I for one am always on some iteration of GBx or Mardu deck. If I think Control is very popular, BBE Jund is great. If creature decks are opopular, Mardu is my bet. And if I expect much Mardu then I will more likely stick to Abzan Traverse.

I am not yet sure which version if best against the bridgevine deck.

Yesterday, after a few weeks of playing Humans i finally to took my version of Abzan Traverse to a 4-0 win on FNM. The deck felt really smooth, play was tight and had some amazing sequences during the evening.



Round 1, Mardu Pyro (2-0 on the play)
Got paired with my friend who was on Mardu Pyro, usually a match i can win.
Game 1: was over pretty quick. T1 Thoughseize, T2 Tarmogoyf, T3 Liliana of the Veil versus an awful lot of looting.
Game 2: was a true grindfest. But i managed to stabilize at 5 life after a convinient topdecked Golgari Charm At one point, he managed to get some tokens trough and then tapped out to get a refill with Bedlam Reveler. I was on 2 life when he passed the turn. My final attack was enough to finish the game with Siege Rhino. Just in time since het drew a Lighting Bolt. Tense game.

Round 2, Mono G Tron (2-1 on the draw)
Now this is where the evenening really started to be great.
Game 1: He mulled to 5 and without any knowledge of my opponent, i kept a somewhat risky 7 with Overgrown Tomb, Ghost Quarter and some discard spells + Liliana of the Veil. He dropped Urza's Mine. Immagine the joy i felt He did't get to Tron that game and i discarted all his treaths (karn + Ulamog + Worldbreaker) i clocked him with Tarmogoyf.
Game 2: Tron did Tron things, while i only landed Stony Silence too late
Game 3: Mulliganned to 6, Land, Ghost Quarter, Liliana of the Veil, Grim Flayer and some stuff which i felt was reasonable. Topdecked land, Fulminator Mage, Land. Had an awesome sequence this game, T2 Grim Flayer, T3 Ghost Quarter + Fulminator Mage, T4 Liliana of the Veil, discard Path to Exile to enable Delirium, Swing for 6 and take two tron lands. That was pretty much it.
This one felt really really good

Round 3, Bant Spirits (2-0 on the draw)
Game 1: I kept a very removal heavy 7 which paid of. When i found out he was on spirits, i know i had to control the board first so he could not preassure me. Worked out perfectly.
Game 2: Pretty much the same, though his maindeck Kira, the Glass Spinner could have been troublesome if i didn't keep mana up to Abrupt Decay it eot. Dropped my Tarmogoyf. His next turn was 4 mana open. I feared Spell Queller so i passed after attacks and land drop. Eot he taps out for Collected Company and reveals two lords, Drogskol Captain and Supreme Phantom. Before passing priority again i Decay the captain and push the Phantom.
Again, this match felt great. Everything just lined up beautifully.

Round 4, Dredge (2-1 on the draw)
Again, a good friend of mine. He was at 3-0 at the time too and i offered a draw and play for fun. Realising we both knew the games we played before, he opted to play the game for real. Ok.
Game 1: Dredge, dredged the hell out of me.
Game 2: I cast Inquisition of Kozilek and saw two Cathartic Reunion. I took one and extracted the rest. Gained enough tempo for Anafenza, the Foremost and eventually Nihil Spellbomb to take the game. This was also a pretty thight game.
Game 3: Dredge did not do what Dredge do, and i did what i do with lots of Preassure on board. Grim Flayer trigger let me put Nihil Spellbomb on top. next turn it was over.

All in all the evening was filled with great games and matches which are chalanging to say the least. Felt awesome afterwards. The Abzan variant of traverse certainly is smoother and more robust than the (fast)Sultai version. Loved it. Path and Souls are truely worth it to be in white and the finishing power of the maindeck creature suite is very real.

how do we sideboard against bant spirits? do you keep discard or keep Liliana?

I brought in Gaddock Teeg agains Bant Spirits to keep them of CoCo which is arguably their best play EOT. Landed it in game two and other than a possible topdecked Path they have no answer. Then again, if they do draw into one they usually have to choose.
Side in all the removal you have. I only didn't side in [cardGolgari Charm[/card] in favor of the aforementioned Teeg.

Let one thing be very clear. Spirits is no race! If you race, you lose. It's usually better to play the control deck and let them try to deploy. Just make sure you have the answers for it. Don't run your spells into Spell Queller either. Let them tap out.
Don't side out LotV either. It's the only possible answer you have to double Drogskol Captain, That boardstate is nigh unwinnable.

I took out: 1 Seige Rhino, Anafenza, the Foremost and Liliana, the last Hope
In: Shriekmaw, Gaddock Teeg and Damnation.

I have played the matchup vs Bant and UW several times at FNM level and have positive game results to show for my actions. If what you say works for you then that's absolutely fine offcourse, but i get a feeling you guys are just theory crafting here. I've looked back a few pages and havn't read lots of reports to be frank.

We all know the most important factor of playing the midrange strategy is to know when to be the agressor and when to hang back and be more controling. Spirits is the more aggressive strategy, so you probably be better off to hang back a little.

Golgari Charm is situational. Agreed when it's good, it's great, But the spirits player will never have a board with some random 1/1's. If they do, you are probably winning, remember they need dead cards in the yard for the tokens to be there anyway.

The only part fully agree on is you should have a clock down at some point. But what's the use of dropping you goyf or flayer or even worse, Liliana into a possible Spell Queller? You should not drop any of the T1 discard spells. Being proactive and know what you're in for is very key to the strategy. The two life should be mittigated by fetching basics and play reserved. At the very worst, your discard spell transforms into a spot removal spell when they sac wanderer which should lead to a little more conservative play imho.
Most, if not all games v.s. Spirits have eventually led to empty hands on my opponents side and me with some sort of threat they have to deal with.
Our Lingering Souls are an awesome grinding tool against them if needed. Never once the games felt like i had to race. I just wanted to make that part very clear.

Edit: What should be said is that i feel the matchup is very favorable to use to begin with, so you probably should not have to overextend into boarding anyway.

Quote from Brightmist »

I've played UW spirits matchup like 10-15 times recently. I haven't played against a bant spirits player recently but I've played that deck in the past. No one said you should jam liliana into a possible spell queller, I said jamming flashbacked souls into a possible spell queller is fine. Being aggressive doesn't mean making bad plays. Being aggressive means you can't win just trying to control the board state and you should put an early clock on the board whenever you can instead of holding up removal, trying to get them to play defense since their creatures are smaller than ours and they have to chump. Playing defense is bad since you can only rely on lingering souls to block and that's about it.

This is formulated rather differently than your statements earlier, but this is the absolite truth. Not being defensive is something entirely different than being agrressive. Being on offence to make them block and sac their dudes obviously is totaly fine and is part of the more controling strategy.

Bant spirits deck has ~16 creature cards in it with 1 thoughness + their only grindy card that is Moorland Haunt that creates 1/1s. It'll almost always have one or multiple x/1 creatures on the board and they should reasonably board in RiP so Golgari Charm is more than fine.

Golgari charm is to slow for Hierarch. That should be removed asap. RiP is a fine target though.

Thoughtseize is bad against aggressive strategies that want to get your life to 0 as fast as they can. You're just 2-for-1'ing yourself, trading a card in their hand and shocking yourself and it's a dead draw mid to lategame. Not fetching-shocking is already a thing you should be doing on top of cutting thoughtseizes. Fetching-shocking can only reasonably done against decks where life total really doesn't matter since it's a super aggressive play.

I'd rather take two on my own terms than taking 3+ in the air with some hexproof giving lord or Queller Backup. It's all about efficiency. Same thing with Burn. Never board out TS. Taking Boros charm has net you +2life. Think about it.

Having a threat on the play when both sides are hellbent is what you should be aiming for, thoughtseize is not the way to do it.

Truth there about the Threat, for TS see above

We obviously have different perspectives. Let's just agree to disagree

Still enjoying my evening last friday.

Quote from SmauG »

I'd rather take two on my own terms than taking 3+ in the air with some hexproof giving lord or Queller Backup. It's all about efficiency. Same thing with Burn. Never board out TS. Taking Boros charm has net you +2life. Think about it.

Uh I have to intervene here

The classic argument of saving 2 life against Burn with TS by taking Boros Charm. I'll give you my perspective on this by linking the sideboard guide from the primer:

"One of the most common misconceptions involveds around Thoughtseize vs. Burn. Its incredibly bad to leave TS in. But why is that? I often hear people arguing that TS is not as bad against Burn, because you can potentially snatch a Boros Charm or Atarkas Command, effectively gaining 2 life, right? Well, its not that simple.

I look at Burn as being a combo deck, which just has to resolve 6-7 spells in order to win the game. Generally, each spell will do 3 or sometimes 4 dmg to the opponent, so for 20 life --> 7 spells with 3 dmg per spell or 6 spells with two spells dealing 4 dmg are needed. Burn is a very consistant deck (its a critical mass deck). It will more often than not draw the needed spells and just win. Now, when you are playing TS and taking Boros Charm out of the opponent’s hand, you annul the effect of Boros Charm which would have otherwise dealt 4 dmg to your face. But what you also did through this, is effective casting a free Shock on yourself. Combines this with a simple fetch you potentially did prior to this (even if you only fetched for 1) you effectively cast a free Lightning Bolt on yourself. So what did TS actually do for you? Nothing. You took Boros Charm, but bolted you alongside. You gave the opponent 1 of the 7 spells needed to kill you. (And to note, even if you don’t fetch for 1, you effectively cast a combo spell piece on yourself by casting TS, going down to 18 life and the burn player now just needs 6 instead of 7 3-dmg spells) So to conclude, if you TS the Burn player, you take away one spell they have but they simply have to draw one less spell alongside, which is just doing nothing."

So do you still think you are likely to save 2 life?

Now concerning the Spirits matchup I am not sure its basically the same thing with TS. Generally I think its not wrong to take out TS. but Spell Queller specifically makes it a little harder.

Agree with FlyingDelver here.

Siding out Thoughtseize against Burn is a slam dunk. In addition to the case he lays out in the primer, consider also that the trope of discard spells being bad lategame topdecks is even more accurate than usual against Burn, since they empty their hand quickly, have a lot of instant-speed spells, and play nothing to refuel their draws. Side it out every time, even if you’re bringing in something extremely mediocre in its place.

But I also remain unconvinced that Thoughtseizes should be sided out against Bant Spirits. Collected Company is still a backbreaking card against us, and with the amount of interaction their deck has on the stack, discard should be given a fairly high valuation. Spirits are still not that aggressive, in any case—and I would argue that the progressions that see them curving out into the lords are easier for our deck to handle than the cagey, end-step-heavy progressions. I certainly don’t think Golgari Charm, for example, is objectively a clear improvement over Thoughtseize.