This has been a great weekend for the deck. I'm liking all the chatter, it makes me happy lol. This deck is great, and I'm glad to see it get the recognition it deserves. I'm going to cut my 4th push for the 2nd terminate, and do some work to my sideboard. Awesome weekend.
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How I like to win games:
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Now that Grixis Shadow is firmly on the map, I think it's time to start thinking about defending against dedicated hate.
It seems Leyline of the Void (and other graveyard hate pieces) will see a bit more play, seeing as how it really changes how the deck plays, and we're really helpless against enchantments.
Rizzi had a really solid plan going early beatdown with Snapcasters after a T0 Leyline (in the semifinals, I think), but he got a bit lucky with very early pressure, IMO.
It may be a good time to discuss strategies against specific hate cards.
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BUR Grixis Death's Shadow RBW Mardu Pyromancer GBR Gx Tron
Splashing white for Disenchant is actually not terrible. I don't like the white splash for something like Ranger of Eos because we can't tutor him like the Jund version can, and I don't think we need the Lingering Souls. Unfortunately, we still have the problem with the 4th color splash that we might mill our white source with a Thought Scour, which would be awkward. I think if Leylines start picking up a lot more, I'll just play an Echoing Truth in the board.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
So if you count, you'll notice this is 61 cards in the main and 14 in the sideboard. Only 2 lists were running Temur Battle Rage, and both cut Bolts for them in the main, so you either cut a Bolt or a TBR (or cut 2 Bolts and play 2 TBR). This means there's one extra slot open in the sideboard. In my opinion, the best options are a 3rd Brutality, 3rd Rejection, or 2nd sweeper. Of course, this isn't gospel, so everyone's free to tinker as they wish, but I think this is the starting point for us going forward.
Great work! But the 1.4 Surgical Extractions and 1.3 Nihil Spellbombs got rounded up to a 2-2 split that does not look right. Currently, most lists dedicate two or three slots to graveyard hate. So I think there is at least one more flex slot in the sideboard.
It's also noteworthy that Surgical Extraction interacts favorably with Fulminator Mage, which got rounded down to 0. There is some competition between Ceremonious Rejection and Fulminator Mage for the sideboard slots, because you can pack only so much hate against (Eldrazi) Tron without weakening the primary game plan of the deck.
I'm only running one atm, and have a Rakdos Charm in place of the second one. This is a meta call however, I don't see much Tron, but graveyard and go-wide green decks are pretty common at my LGS. In an unknown meta I would probably run two Ceremonious Rejections.
But isn't Echoing Truth just a temporary solution? I mean, they can just cast it the next turn, can't they?
At most, it buys you 2-3 turns (until they get the lands to hard cast it). To be fair, 2-3 turns is nice, but it's a best case scenario (casting Truth on T2).
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BUR Grixis Death's Shadow RBW Mardu Pyromancer GBR Gx Tron
Leyline of the Void, unlike RiP doesn't exile on ETB, so our yard will still be able to delve/snap back to some extent. If they tap out T4 to replay the Leyline we're most likely in a good spot to win. If not, they are so far ahead that whether or not they actually cast the Leyline will most likely be irrelevant.
Besides, they have to worry about both Stubborn Denial and Thoughtseize at that point, so you're able to fight it if you think it's worth it.
There were 9 Grixis Shadow lists in the posted top 32s (or 36 for one of the GPs) this weekend, good for 9% of the top meta. That's a healthy percentage, but not anywhere near danger territory unless WotC is dumb and combines all the DS variants together like they did with Twin. Anyway, here is the average numbers of each card played between the 9 lists:
Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Death's Shadow
3.8 Street Wraith
2 Gurmag Angler
1.9 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Fulminator Mage
.4 Izzet Staticaster
.2 Stillmoon Cavalier
.1 Tombstalker
.1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
.1 Ranger of Eos
Sorceries
4 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
2.2 Collective Brutality
1.8 Inquisition of Kozilek
1.2 Anger of the Gods
.3 Lingering Souls
.1 Dreadbore
.1 Damnation
This is actually 77 cards because there were a few cards tied for the last couple slots, so you need to cut two. There was only 1 player playing the white splash, which I think isn't the best thing to do, so the Strand should just be a 4th Tarn, and we can cut the Souls. For the last cut, only 4/9 players were playing Fulminator, so I think that's the last cut. So I think the average list looks something like this:
So if you count, you'll notice this is 61 cards in the main and 14 in the sideboard. Only 2 lists were running Temur Battle Rage, and both cut Bolts for them in the main, so you either cut a Bolt or a TBR (or cut 2 Bolts and play 2 TBR). This means there's one extra slot open in the sideboard. In my opinion, the best options are a 3rd Brutality, 3rd Rejection, or 2nd sweeper. Of course, this isn't gospel, so everyone's free to tinker as they wish, but I think this is the starting point for us going forward.
I think Karsten's aggregate method would be better than this average-and-round strategy. Give it a shot and let me know how it goes.
Yup, poker slang you're misusing. "Ship it" refers to shipping the pot to the person that won. The person who won is not the one doing the "shipping". For Nelson to have shipped the tournament he would have lost and "shipped" it to the other player.
Leyline of the Void, unlike RiP doesn't exile on ETB, so our yard will still be able to delve/snap back to some extent. If they tap out T4 to replay the Leyline we're most likely in a good spot to win. If not, they are so far ahead that whether or not they actually cast the Leyline will most likely be irrelevant.
Besides, they have to worry about both Stubborn Denial and Thoughtseize at that point, so you're able to fight it if you think it's worth it.
I agree with you on all of your points. With this in mind, I might actually consider playing Truth now (and not just for LotV).
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BUR Grixis Death's Shadow RBW Mardu Pyromancer GBR Gx Tron
Outside of Leyline of the Void, more countermagic helps beat the hate. I'm not a huge fan of splashing the 4th color, but that may be the best way to fight through Leylines. Echoing Truth + counter it on the way down *is* a way to beat Leyline of the Void, but it's not great. Honestly if much of the metagame is packing Leyline of the Void and other hardcore gy hate, it's probably a good time to pick up another deck. Punish them for wasting their SB spots on the wrong thing by playing Affinity or Burn or Ad Nauseum or something. Not that you shouldn't keep playing the deck if you enjoy it and don't mind the slog! Just be aware of when the deck may not be tier 1.
As an aside, Leyline of the Void and graveyard hate generally are well positioned right now (and has been for some time). It's great vs all of the Shadow variants, Dredge, and Storm. We should expect more of it, and possibly consider playing it.
people commonly use it as in "x shipped the tournament"
People that are using the phrase that way are incorrect. People also often use the word literally when they mean figuratively which is literally the opposite of literally. People misuse words and phrases all the time. Those people are wrong.
I'm only running one atm, and have a Rakdos Charm in place of the second one. This is a meta call however, I don't see much Tron, but graveyard and go-wide green decks are pretty common at my LGS. In an unknown meta I would probably run two Ceremonious Rejections.
I'm still only playing deck on MTGO. Seeing a lot of Eldrazi Tron, so I'm running 2-3 Ceremonious Rejections. Two seems like about right though, since it helps with what seems like an otherwise difficult matchup.
With the deck's rising prominence I wonder what we could use to break the mirrors potentially. Pia/Kiran, Tombstalkers and Stillmoon Cavelier (!) I think were all attempts to break the mirror matches, but I think they are sort of low impact/highly costed/low-ish impact and dies to bolt. Tombstalker actually does sound viable, but 2 mana is a hell of a lot more than 1 in this deck, and it probably prevents you from playing the mana leaks and the disdainful strokes of the world
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Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Legacy:
Burn
B/R Reanimator (slowly building
EDH:
Sedris Control/Reanimation
It seems Leyline of the Void (and other graveyard hate pieces) will see a bit more play, seeing as how it really changes how the deck plays, and we're really helpless against enchantments.
Rizzi had a really solid plan going early beatdown with Snapcasters after a T0 Leyline (in the semifinals, I think), but he got a bit lucky with very early pressure, IMO.
It may be a good time to discuss strategies against specific hate cards.
Grixis Death's Shadow
RBW
Mardu Pyromancer
GBR
Gx Tron
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
It's also noteworthy that Surgical Extraction interacts favorably with Fulminator Mage, which got rounded down to 0. There is some competition between Ceremonious Rejection and Fulminator Mage for the sideboard slots, because you can pack only so much hate against (Eldrazi) Tron without weakening the primary game plan of the deck.
At most, it buys you 2-3 turns (until they get the lands to hard cast it). To be fair, 2-3 turns is nice, but it's a best case scenario (casting Truth on T2).
Grixis Death's Shadow
RBW
Mardu Pyromancer
GBR
Gx Tron
Besides, they have to worry about both Stubborn Denial and Thoughtseize at that point, so you're able to fight it if you think it's worth it.
I think Karsten's aggregate method would be better than this average-and-round strategy. Give it a shot and let me know how it goes.
Yup, poker slang you're misusing. "Ship it" refers to shipping the pot to the person that won. The person who won is not the one doing the "shipping". For Nelson to have shipped the tournament he would have lost and "shipped" it to the other player.
I agree with you on all of your points. With this in mind, I might actually consider playing Truth now (and not just for LotV).
Grixis Death's Shadow
RBW
Mardu Pyromancer
GBR
Gx Tron
As an aside, Leyline of the Void and graveyard hate generally are well positioned right now (and has been for some time). It's great vs all of the Shadow variants, Dredge, and Storm. We should expect more of it, and possibly consider playing it.
People that are using the phrase that way are incorrect. People also often use the word literally when they mean figuratively which is literally the opposite of literally. People misuse words and phrases all the time. Those people are wrong.
I'm still only playing deck on MTGO. Seeing a lot of Eldrazi Tron, so I'm running 2-3 Ceremonious Rejections. Two seems like about right though, since it helps with what seems like an otherwise difficult matchup.