So guys, I will try to make a Sideboard guide vs the first 20 decks very late today or tommorow and have it for you to discuss. This way, you shall correct my possible mistakes and work all together to have one ready. This will help at the primer possibly.
It might be have been variance but I think I handled the matchup really well. I'm not that afraid of Burn anymore. It's a coin toss really. If you don't shock/bolt yourself too much and play your cards right you'll manage to sneak a Death Shadow and seal the deal with 2 attacks.
As a Burn player who is just starting to pick up this deck I would argue that it is not variance. Death's Shadow is a very tough matchup for us. It seems like it shouldn't be, but by the time the Death's Shadow player is below 9 we don't have enough Burn left in our hands to finish them off.
Mischief will feel real bad rotting in your hand when your opponent targets your Death's Shadow with Condemn.
True, that is a good point since it's attacking creature.
Condemn is normally only a 2-of, and local meta-wise, I haven't seen it played a ton yet. So we will see. I'll report back tonight.
Can't even come up with a coherent reply, that's the funniest part.
Also, regarding Rise//Fall, it's definitely a meta call. Also, in a lot of ways it's nicer than Hymn because it's multicolored, so it's a lot easier to cast. I'm a big fan of it and have even maindecked one. I still keep a Bolt in for early on and for some Snapcaster recursion, but Rise/Fall is the way to go.
Cut your IoKs for Mana Leaks and your Tron/Eldrazi Tron matchups will improve ;). Also, like BloodyRabbit says, you can make it even better by going deep with Deprive. My last league had 1 MD Deprive, and it was good there. But honestly bad in a lot of spots. Ceremonious Rejection / Disdainful Stroke in the SB helps too. I'm leaning toward Stroke again now because I'm seeing an uptick in Valakut/Scapeshift decks. Even the blue ones!
I agree. Burn has to play the matchup so differently from the norm of being mana efficient. Sometimes they have to just make a land drop and pass. By the end of turn 3, they haven't played anything but 1 to 2 creatures.
So I was brainstorming a bit after my post talking about the two main problems I see with the archetype. They were: 1) impossible to not be reliant on the graveyard, and 2) sometimes feels threat light. I think there's a 3rd problem: 3) Temur Battle Rage isn't the "I win" button for us that we would like it to be. Below is a list that tries to mitigate 2 & 3. The basic idea is to add 2 delve threats and support this by 1) playing slightly cheaper spells, at least relative to what I normally play, 2) shaving Snapcasters to put a bit less pressure on the graveyard, 3) MDing 2 LotV to make sure we can still grind despite cutting Snapcasters, and to help keep the 'yard stocked for delve creatures, and to give us something to do with extra delve creatures - especially Tasigur, then 4) try TBR with the new and improved threat density. This is an untested rough draft, but I think something like this is probably a good idea. In particular, Liliana of the Veil has always been impressive in my lists.
I'm going to play this at FNM tonight for the first time. I generally play control (Jeskai or Grixis) and have dabbled with Burn, but I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what's a keepable hand with this deck. For example, how much do you want a threat in your opening hand vs. general interactions and cantrips? Is something like fetch, fetch, Thoughtseize, Push, Thought Scour, Thought Scour keepable (say against an unknown opponent on the play)? I've tried solo-playtesting some games, and it seems like there can be a real risk of just spinning gears cantripping before finding a threat, so I'm wondering how much the more experienced players here mulligan to a Tasigur/Gurmag/Shadow vs. just 'trusting the deck'.
Depending on the meta I think Fall could have a place. I'm not sure if I'm trying to sugarcoat it but it seems that Fall is better most of the time.
From a ton of experience playing grixis delver with rise // fall vs merfolk I can say that bolt is absolutely, undoubtedly better in that match up. Merfolks "removal" is mostly bounce and their creatures are nearly always unblockable so it can be difficult to have a threat in the yard to bounce when you need to, and giving them a creature back when we are on the resource denial plan is no good. They can technically outgrow bolt but against a deck with this much removal it just doesn't happen often.
I'm going to play this at FNM tonight for the first time. I generally play control (Jeskai or Grixis) and have dabbled with Burn, but I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what's a keepable hand with this deck. For example, how much do you want a threat in your opening hand vs. general interactions and cantrips? Is something like fetch, fetch, Thoughtseize, Push, Thought Scour, Thought Scour keepable (say against an unknown opponent on the play)? I've tried solo-playtesting some games, and it seems like there can be a real risk of just spinning gears cantripping before finding a threat, so I'm wondering how much the more experienced players here mulligan to a Tasigur/Gurmag/Shadow vs. just 'trusting the deck'.
I would definitely keep that on the play. You have disruption, interaction, mana, and ways to dig. Worst case scenario you Scour twice after your second land drop, that's a lot of food for the yard.
EldraziTron/Gx Tron don't feel like bad matchups. I'd say they are 50/50ish to me (I play 2 Rejections in the SB) which I'm fine with given that midrange really isn't supposed to have game against Tron variants
EldraziTron/Gx Tron don't feel like bad matchups. I'd say they are 50/50ish to me (I play 2 Rejections in the SB) which I'm fine with given that midrange really isn't supposed to have game against Tron variants
My friend and I have been on this deck for a bit and my friend feels that the deck is just a bit too threat light. I told him to throw in goyfs and he did it. He's now on this version of the deck. Also with some spicy Tribal Flames because he hates Lightning Bolt. Thoughts on this version? (Board is a work in progress currently) http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grixis-domain-shadow/
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
So guys, I will try to make a Sideboard guide vs the first 20 decks very late today or tommorow and have it for you to discuss. This way, you shall correct my possible mistakes and work all together to have one ready. This will help at the primer possibly.
My friend and I have been on this deck for a bit and my friend feels that the deck is just a bit too threat light. I told him to throw in goyfs and he did it. He's now on this version of the deck. Also with some spicy Tribal Flames because he hates Lightning Bolt. Thoughts on this version? (Board is a work in progress currently) http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grixis-domain-shadow/
Is he seriously running a Godless Shrine just for an extra point of damage off Tribal Flames? Dear god.
On other news, went 3-1 today only losing to Esper DS because my draws were pretty terrible and because I kept a bad hand game 1.
Lost a game(although won the match) vs Ad nauseam to Godhead of Awe! I used Surgical Extraction on Ad Nauseam and killed off the Laboratory Maniac only to see my 2 DS's dying from this Spirit entering the battlefield, and him killing me off -_-. This was one of the worst "feelsbadman" in my entire life. Won the match though! This interaction with the Spirit is critical and you should all be aware of it. Practically, Godhead Of Awe makes a Death's Shadow a 1/1 creature and it's a steatic ability which is being kept by the DS resulting in it dying if I got it right.
This Spirit is so annoying, because we have sided out our removal spells(I mean terminate) and it can be a real blowout(although expensive)
Maybe we should main deck the Lilis. The Jund lists are all running 2 LtLH and 1 LotV main these days
Actually, I have been thinking the same thing after the continuous overperformance of the card. But 3 mana are a lot sometimes, and in sometimes we side her in and cut 2 Scours, meaning we decrease the possibility of Thought Scour milling her out.
As a Burn player who is just starting to pick up this deck I would argue that it is not variance. Death's Shadow is a very tough matchup for us. It seems like it shouldn't be, but by the time the Death's Shadow player is below 9 we don't have enough Burn left in our hands to finish them off.
That's exactly why I said many Burn players don't approach the mu correctly.
Burn has to bottleneck much like against Ux control. It often comes down to how badly the Death's Shadow player can pick the Burn player's hand apart. Honestly I think it comes down to skill on both sides. When I'm on Burn I feel like a 80/20 favorite against inexperienced Death's Shadow players. When the skill level is equal the matchup can be really difficult for both sides.
For Gifts Storm you took out 5 cards but only added in 2. Assuming you also add in Countersquall and Nihil Spellbomb. I've found bolt to be quite effective in the Grixis Shadow mirror because we both go so low on life that Bolt Snap Bolt can just steal a game out of no where. These games can go fairly long so I prefer Denials over IOK but that's ultimately up to you. That match up is primarily all about removal and delve dudes since shadows just eat all the Fatal Pushes.
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How's this going?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
As a Burn player who is just starting to pick up this deck I would argue that it is not variance. Death's Shadow is a very tough matchup for us. It seems like it shouldn't be, but by the time the Death's Shadow player is below 9 we don't have enough Burn left in our hands to finish them off.
True, that is a good point since it's attacking creature.
Condemn is normally only a 2-of, and local meta-wise, I haven't seen it played a ton yet. So we will see. I'll report back tonight.
Can't even come up with a coherent reply, that's the funniest part.
Also, regarding Rise//Fall, it's definitely a meta call. Also, in a lot of ways it's nicer than Hymn because it's multicolored, so it's a lot easier to cast. I'm a big fan of it and have even maindecked one. I still keep a Bolt in for early on and for some Snapcaster recursion, but Rise/Fall is the way to go.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Blood Crypt
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Gurmag Angler
4 Death's Shadow
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Thought Scour
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thoughtseize
2 Mana Leak
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Terminate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Temur Battle Rage
From a ton of experience playing grixis delver with rise // fall vs merfolk I can say that bolt is absolutely, undoubtedly better in that match up. Merfolks "removal" is mostly bounce and their creatures are nearly always unblockable so it can be difficult to have a threat in the yard to bounce when you need to, and giving them a creature back when we are on the resource denial plan is no good. They can technically outgrow bolt but against a deck with this much removal it just doesn't happen often.
I would definitely keep that on the play. You have disruption, interaction, mana, and ways to dig. Worst case scenario you Scour twice after your second land drop, that's a lot of food for the yard.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
'''''''midrange'''''''
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grixis-domain-shadow/
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Is he seriously running a Godless Shrine just for an extra point of damage off Tribal Flames? Dear god.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Ad Nauseum has a plethora of nonsense like that which they may have in the board. Dragonlord Dromoka, Sigarda, Heron's Grace, and Grave Titan are also common. I always leave 2 Terminates in.
I wouldn't MD LtLH, but I've like MD LotV every time I've tried it. LtLH is really bad in a lot of matchups, but LotV has a pretty high floor.
Stubborn Denial is the other main reason.
Burn has to bottleneck much like against Ux control. It often comes down to how badly the Death's Shadow player can pick the Burn player's hand apart. Honestly I think it comes down to skill on both sides. When I'm on Burn I feel like a 80/20 favorite against inexperienced Death's Shadow players. When the skill level is equal the matchup can be really difficult for both sides.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
Thanks for the post I guess sb against living end shall be same as dredge except that -2 TBR, +2 collective Brutality