MTG Salvation

I prefer 1 mana Negate over 3 mana Negate...

The fact that it can cost 0 mana on your opponent's turn means that it does a poor job at protecting our threats and only works as a reactive card against the development of our opponent. For me that's exactly the type of card I'm not looking for.
Unless the gameplan changes to a more reactive approach, which is likely given that the format is becoming more hostile towards our deck, I don't see us rocking this card.

I see it as a sideboard card if decks like neoform become the new norm and we just have to have t0 interaction. It's mediocre to downright awful against most decks where we want counters.

I'm not really feeling Force of Negation in our deck either to be honest.

GDS's blue count is not high enough to play Force of Negation; in Legacy the bottom limit is often said to be 16, so you'd have to add a whole lot of blue cantrips to the deck to get to that limit.

What do you guys think of Force of Despair? It's like a an instant speed damnation for cards that entered the battlefield that turn for free.

I like it, but I don't love it. The fact that it ONLY kills creatures that entered the battlefield on the turn you cast it. It also doesn't exile.

So, that means that although you might clean house for a single combat phase against Dredge/Phoenix, they still head back to the graveyard, ready to come at you again next turn. It also means that decks that build their board more incrementally, like Humans and Spirits, are less affected. Humans usually build their board 1-2 creatures at a time, meaning at best you're going to get a 2 for 2. Really, what I want in a sweeper against that matchup is something that gives me at least a 2 for 1.

Despite these potential downsides, I'd like to test it. There's still a decent case that a 2 for 2 without paying mana is good enough.

I like the black force and I think we'll end up playing it in the side as it's really hard to compete with free spells and often this will buy us that one combat step we need to win the game.

Against Spirits with will be very good. Kills the hexaproof lords and Spell Queller, with no mana for the cost of a thoughtseize...

It only kills if they cast it that turn... It's somewhat a direct counter for Collected Company but for that I'd rather have a Dispel...

I'm on the fence. There has to be a real incentive to play a card disadvantage card for me and I'm not actually seeing it, right now. It's true that the card isn't too expensive on the regular mode, but is it an effect that we are in need of? Would it be better than Anger of the Gods? I wouldn't trade it, personally... The exile effect is way too good on both Dredge and Phoenix matchups.

Quote from DaveJacinto »

It only kills if they cast it that turn... It's somewhat a direct counter for Collected Company but for that I'd rather have a Dispel...

I'm on the fence. There has to be a real incentive to play a card disadvantage card for me and I'm not actually seeing it, right now. It's true that the card isn't too expensive on the regular mode, but is it an effect that we are in need of? Would it be better than Anger of the Gods? I wouldn't trade it, personally... The exile effect is way too good on both Dredge and Phoenix matchups.

This is sort of how I'm feeling on this one currently. Anger of the Gods gets rid of recurring threats forever, while also giving you at least a 2 for 1. In most situations that I rack my brain about, I'd usually rather have Anger of the Gods or even Flaying Tendrils. It really all comes down to whether or the mana advantage makes it desirable.

And technically, it's not card disadvantage if you hit at least 2 creatures with the Force. You're trading 2 cards for 2 cards... you're just turning a, let's say, Street Wraith, into a removal spell at that point.

And how about those lands; can they do something for us? http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/fieryislet.html

Steam Vents is by far our worst shockland. I'd almost even say it's our worst land period (Basic Swamp is certainly better than it... Island might be a toss up). I'd cut it if there weren't situations where one is absolutely necessary. In our current iteration, I just don't think we want it… even though I want a reason to play the UR Canopy Land soooo bad.

It lets you control your life total AND you can ditch it to draw a card. Too bad they didn't print a UB one.

Quote from iSergiant »

And how about those lands; can they do something for us? http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/fieryislet.html

Not fetchable, and makes it trickier to play tight with life total, and saccing a land is tough with this deck IMO.

I want 4 as a replacement for Shivan Reef in Storm though.

Quote from LeoTzu »

Quote from DaveJacinto »

It only kills if they cast it that turn... It's somewhat a direct counter for Collected Company but for that I'd rather have a Dispel...

I'm on the fence. There has to be a real incentive to play a card disadvantage card for me and I'm not actually seeing it, right now. It's true that the card isn't too expensive on the regular mode, but is it an effect that we are in need of? Would it be better than Anger of the Gods? I wouldn't trade it, personally... The exile effect is way too good on both Dredge and Phoenix matchups.

This is sort of how I'm feeling on this one currently. Anger of the Gods gets rid of recurring threats forever, while also giving you at least a 2 for 1. In most situations that I rack my brain about, I'd usually rather have Anger of the Gods or even Flaying Tendrils. It really all comes down to whether or the mana advantage makes it desirable.

And technically, it's not card disadvantage if you hit at least 2 creatures with the Force. You're trading 2 cards for 2 cards... you're just turning a, let's say, Street Wraith, into a removal spell at that point.

I don't like it and here's why:

* Only creatures that entered that turn - a T3 Anger would be better and more card advantageous because exiled for good.
* Costs a card - if your hand is Stubb, Gurmag, TBR, this, then losing the threat will feel awful.

A quick tournament report, as Monday I went 3-1 with grixis shadow:

2-0 vs UR wizards
0-2 vs Elves
2-0 vs UR Phoenix
2-1 vs BR control (lots of planeswalker stuff going on)

I have been down on shadow as I watch tron, uw and humans tick up in use percentage, but locally it hasn't quite caught on. Phoenix is around in force, but I honestly like that matchup. Amulet Titan sees waves as well, I'm even thinking of building it, but I like that one too. I'm starting to wonder if the PT results have started to shift people's focus, combined with MH spoilers getting people to test new decks. I'm confident in a pair of force of negation within the 75 as a way to tap out early for a planeswalker or gurmag angler and protect it from a dismember or path played during my opponent's turn while I am tapped out. Tron is kinda similar, I have a couple wins and a couple losses where the latter I'm often a turn away before they O-stone or whatever.

If I can get away with firing off a tbr against uw or esper for an additional 5+ damage I will. If you get them down to single digits snaps has a good chance of getting there. Against creature decks I'd rather use it to crack through blockers. If I can kill them, I will unless I believe there's a trick up to blow me out.

Been talking with someone at my local who used to play GDS. Are there any big changes we are looking to make with Horizon? Going back to a more midrange build? Maybe K.commands main for all the new karin artifact decks around? Im not sure what direction the deck should go so I figured Id ask others who play.

The Karn artifact decks are going to be difficult for midrange decks. If anything we would want to try to be even faster so we have more a chance to kill them before the get Karn/Lattice lock or Karn into Bridge.

Unearth seems pretty good in this deck. It can bring back shadows and snap-casters from the graveyard for 1 mana, and the worst case cycle mode isn't a terrible floor. If we are playing 4Xthought scour a couple unearth could increase our threat density without having to resort to inferior threat options.

What do you guys think?