Thread seems useless if people just want to discuss brewed up versions of Grixis Shadow
Opt has seemed underwhelming in the deck, I think the pro-tour players will probably have a lot of people realize serum visions is just better
People gather here to share their ideas and have a feedback about them as well as discussing the archetype itself, So I don't see the problem of people sharing their personal brews at all.
Also, the metagame changed, people are trying to find new ways to adapt to it or trying new brews to see where it leads.
I am interested on a sideboard guide though, I've got one but it feels outdated.
I just feel that Opt probably worse than Serum Vision, filter 3 cards > instant speed. Doesn't matter its a sorcery, we are fine playing sorcery speed anyways. Vision confirmed will be filter 3 cards btw. Opt filter 2 card, sometime 1 card only.
Now, does anyone have thoughts on chart a course instead of running the two of opts/visions list?
It gets tricky comparing the two since opt/visions are cantrips whereas course is card advantage.
Opt/visions are one mana spells that replace themselves and in the case of visions helps you set up future draws to either ensure you hit land drops or try to prevent flooding. On that note, I've gone back and forth between the 2 myself and I tend to like opt because of the scry before draw (running as many fetches as we do, getting that second card off the scry can be difficult to wait on) but always seeing 3 cards can't be understated either.
As for chart a course, it's an extra mana and requires us to be attacking to get the most use out of. With our very low threat count that's often easier said than done. If we're attacking with our creatures we're generally pretty far ahead already or we're in a matchup where we need to be aggressive. In either case I don't see what chart a course is doing for us at that point, I'd rather have the earlier or cheaper spell personally. If we needed raw card advantage I'd rather run a more synergistic spell with the deck like painful truths which lets us lose life and the number of cards we get is not dictated by creatures or lack of.
How are you doing with opt, are you running 4/2 split with visions or vice versa?
After experimenting with the 18 lands and 2 cantrips list I've gone back to 19 lands and run the full playset of opt right now with no visions. I'm really liking the current setup. I got more value out of having the additional cantrips when I used to play pyro in the board but without them I feel it creates a bit too much air in the deck and I'm spinning my wheels more than I would like. If I was to go back up to 6 cantrips (excluding scour) I would most likely favour opt as a 4/2 split personally
How are you doing with opt, are you running 4/2 split with visions or vice versa?
After experimenting with the 18 lands and 2 cantrips list I've gone back to 19 lands and run the full playset of opt right now with no visions. I'm really liking the current setup. I got more value out of having the additional cantrips when I used to play pyro in the board but without them I feel it creates a bit too much air in the deck and I'm spinning my wheels more than I would like. If I was to go back up to 6 cantrips (excluding scour) I would most likely favour opt as a 4/2 split personally
what would be your reason to have opt over visions
I prefer opt for a few reasons: with 12 fetches scrying 2 cards to the top and still trying to use your mana can be awkward. Opt is also better mid to late game since it gives you more looks at a card right now rather than setting up future draws. The instant speed to bluff denial is also relevant.
That being said I don't think it's objectively the better choice, more personal preference than anything
I prefer opt for a few reasons: with 12 fetches scrying 2 cards to the top and still trying to use your mana can be awkward. Opt is also better mid to late game since it gives you more looks at a card right now rather than setting up future draws. The instant speed to bluff denial is also relevant.
That being said I don't think it's objectively the better choice, more personal preference than anything
Agreed. Would love to know where young p fits. I personally think it's junk. I get after sb people bring in graveyard Hate and it helps. But there has to be better options.
So my record against Abzan Midrange variants is something like 1-20. Lingering Souls gets me every darn time! I'm pretty sure I have enough answers to it, but I just cannot win. I'm starting to think I'm taking the wrong role in the match-up. Has anybody else had a similar experience? I'm also wondering how you approach the match-up. Do you shock yourself aggressively or do you try to play a slower game? Thanks all!
So my record against Abzan Midrange variants is something like 1-20. Lingering Souls gets me every darn time! I'm pretty sure I have enough answers to it, but I just cannot win. I'm starting to think I'm taking the wrong role in the match-up. Has anybody else had a similar experience? I'm also wondering how you approach the match-up. Do you shock yourself aggressively or do you try to play a slower game? Thanks all!
try to play the slower game until you can punch in
So my record against Abzan Midrange variants is something like 1-20. Lingering Souls gets me every darn time! I'm pretty sure I have enough answers to it, but I just cannot win. I'm starting to think I'm taking the wrong role in the match-up. Has anybody else had a similar experience? I'm also wondering how you approach the match-up. Do you shock yourself aggressively or do you try to play a slower game? Thanks all!
Are you running Temur Battle Rage? If not give it a try, allows you to run over Lingering Souls.
So my record against Abzan Midrange variants is something like 1-20. Lingering Souls gets me every darn time! I'm pretty sure I have enough answers to it, but I just cannot win. I'm starting to think I'm taking the wrong role in the match-up. Has anybody else had a similar experience? I'm also wondering how you approach the match-up. Do you shock yourself aggressively or do you try to play a slower game? Thanks all!
You can put Pia and Kiran Nalaar in your SB to help fight Lingering Souls to improve the matchup, and find space for MD Liliana of the Veil (you can shave the 4th Snapcaster and a removal spell). But fundamentally it's going to be a rough matchup. They're just better designed to grind than we are, and have access to better haymakers like Gideon and sometimes even Elspeth.
So my record against Abzan Midrange variants is something like 1-20. Lingering Souls gets me every darn time! I'm pretty sure I have enough answers to it, but I just cannot win. I'm starting to think I'm taking the wrong role in the match-up. Has anybody else had a similar experience? I'm also wondering how you approach the match-up. Do you shock yourself aggressively or do you try to play a slower game? Thanks all!
Are you running Temur Battle Rage? If not give it a try, allows you to run over Lingering Souls.
Temur Battle Rage is pretty bad in the matchup. They have too much point removal to rely on having a big threat down.
People gather here to share their ideas and have a feedback about them as well as discussing the archetype itself, So I don't see the problem of people sharing their personal brews at all.
Also, the metagame changed, people are trying to find new ways to adapt to it or trying new brews to see where it leads.
I am interested on a sideboard guide though, I've got one but it feels outdated.
It gets tricky comparing the two since opt/visions are cantrips whereas course is card advantage.
Opt/visions are one mana spells that replace themselves and in the case of visions helps you set up future draws to either ensure you hit land drops or try to prevent flooding. On that note, I've gone back and forth between the 2 myself and I tend to like opt because of the scry before draw (running as many fetches as we do, getting that second card off the scry can be difficult to wait on) but always seeing 3 cards can't be understated either.
As for chart a course, it's an extra mana and requires us to be attacking to get the most use out of. With our very low threat count that's often easier said than done. If we're attacking with our creatures we're generally pretty far ahead already or we're in a matchup where we need to be aggressive. In either case I don't see what chart a course is doing for us at that point, I'd rather have the earlier or cheaper spell personally. If we needed raw card advantage I'd rather run a more synergistic spell with the deck like painful truths which lets us lose life and the number of cards we get is not dictated by creatures or lack of.
After experimenting with the 18 lands and 2 cantrips list I've gone back to 19 lands and run the full playset of opt right now with no visions. I'm really liking the current setup. I got more value out of having the additional cantrips when I used to play pyro in the board but without them I feel it creates a bit too much air in the deck and I'm spinning my wheels more than I would like. If I was to go back up to 6 cantrips (excluding scour) I would most likely favour opt as a 4/2 split personally
That being said I don't think it's objectively the better choice, more personal preference than anything
4 Death's Shadow
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Young Pyromancer
Lands (19)
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
3 Watery Grave
2 Claim // Fame
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Rise // Fall
4 Thoughtseize
Instants (19)
4 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Opt
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Ravenous Trap
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-11-26
Curious to hear your impressions on:
. Manabase
. Baby Jace
. Claim // Fame along with more creatures with CMC 2 or less
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
Are you running Temur Battle Rage? If not give it a try, allows you to run over Lingering Souls.
You can put Pia and Kiran Nalaar in your SB to help fight Lingering Souls to improve the matchup, and find space for MD Liliana of the Veil (you can shave the 4th Snapcaster and a removal spell). But fundamentally it's going to be a rough matchup. They're just better designed to grind than we are, and have access to better haymakers like Gideon and sometimes even Elspeth.
Temur Battle Rage is pretty bad in the matchup. They have too much point removal to rely on having a big threat down.