The UW control matchup is pretty rough. I was wondering if there is anything to do about it ? Liliana, the last hope is great against them but thats about it. Any ideas ?
I think Kodie is just trying to make people aware of this general approach that storm takes. Ive played both decks since before they "caught on" as a result of banning (i.e. twin and probe), and this is def something storm does. On paper, I shuffle my sideboard into my deck and then remove 15 cards every match. If the opponent realizes I've removed my medallions in game 2, sometimes I will add 3 Baral and a Goblin back in. Our overall strategy is to transform into some weird grindy tempo deck that hits mini combos.
The most important thing a GDS player can do is be intelligent about your life total (don't get greedy on the size of your DS), and try to out-patience the storm player. Temur BR puts in work against storm as well.
There are two types of storm players. Those who try to go all in on the combo as aggressively as they can, and those who play storm like it's chess.
There are two types of storm players. Those who try to go all in on the combo as aggressively as they can, and those who play storm like it's chess.
This seems true for a lot of decks. I switched to this deck from Burn. Before I did I saw so many Death's Shadow opponents go too aggressive into dropping a large Death's Shadow allowing me to just burn them out. Conversely I've watched so many fellow Burn players go to fast at trying to "bolt face" in matches where they need to be the control deck. I kind of feel one of the best things we can is take advantage when we recognize our opponent (whether on Storm or anything else) is incapable of switching gears.
That is a great point, and I agree completely. It becomes an issue of understanding your role with respect to your hand, the board state, and what the opponent may represent according to gained info, hand size and how they're using their mana.
Graveyard hate is shutting down a few alleys for GDS, namely delve creatures and Snapcaster. Your opponent will bring GY hate G2 G3 (Rest in peace, Relic of progenitus, Nihil spellbomb ...) . I would bring 2 Young pyromancer in and remove 2 gurmag angler in that case. Tasigur is easier to play T3 without thought scour and 6 mana is possible while 7 seems out of the realm of possibilities.
The UW control matchup is pretty rough. I was wondering if there is anything to do about it ? Liliana, the last hope is great against them but thats about it. Any ideas ?
Pia and Kiran Nalaar is really good against them. Haymakers like that are what you want. But fundamentally the matchup is a bit rough.
And what is everyone's opinion about GY hate (Nihil spellbomb) in the current meta? Do you guys think it is still worth running?
If your meta has 0 decks it's effective against then you can hedge and cut them for better cards. If you do I would recommend (like Yong said) to have TBR's for the random matchups like Dredge or Living End. While they might be at an all time low in the grand scheme of things you never know when someone will show up with one of those decks to an FNM. Another reason why I like TBR right now, it's your all purpose "no nonsense, no BS" swiss army knife.
As for Deprive, the card is probably fine in a meta of like over 20% Scapeshift. It's not the greatest vs. ETron since they run Cavern and IOK lines up a lot cleaner against a Chalice. I'm also not sure how much stronger it is against UWx control decks since they run Verdict which can only be stopped by a seize anyway. For me everytime I think of adding it in I think of back when I used to play this version with Delvers (that had 2 mana leaks) and I would always hate drawing it since it always clashed with the curve and by the time I could hold it up it was usually too late anyway. Feel free to test it out yourself though.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
I don't yet fully know what I think of this decklist, seems like a metagame call at first, but I am very interested
It seems like the base idea came from DSJ that replacing Traverse with cantrips. I think that build just hotcake for single moment and I still believe that we need our snappy and commands to do close the gap for our bad matchups. Smash some artifacts from affinity, crushes chalice and even get us ready to grind against controls deck. But one thing is that its hard for a grixis DS play alike DSJ. They have their explosiveness, but we have our late game stable.
I was just wondering if you guys bring in Disdainful Stroke against Ad Nauseam? It counters Ad Nauseam itself which is key card since they can't combo off without it but I'm not sure if it's worth just because of this because it doesn't counter anything else.
Absolutely worth it. They can't win without resolving Ad Nauseum, or some >=4 mana haymaker out of the board like Grave Titan.
Hey all. I am thinking of switching to a DS deck of some sort; debating between 5C and Grixis. Can anyone help me lay out some pros / cons of both versions? I've been play testing both, but I am having trouble making up my mind. I have a playset of catacombs and goyfs already, which is making me lean towards 5C.
Hi all, I'm recently getting back into modern and exploring decks. My local store told me that when death's shadow got to be really popular, most of the store hated it out, hard. I think they meant mostly the Grixis version, and maybe the jund version too. So, I'm hoping that maybe an esper version can manage decently. Could I get some constructive feedback on any of my maindeck and sideboard choices? I'd like to play this at bigger events too, not just my local store (and also im not super familiar with whats present in my local meta anyways), so general criticisms or in regards to a large tournament meta rather than local. Please and thank you! :]
Some things about the mainboard I'm wondering, is Liliana of the Veil worth playing 2 of lately? Or any of? I like the tombstalker, personally, but do you think it should be a 2nd Tasigur like most lists run? I don't run the 2 IoK that most lists run, do you think this is a mistake? Any other advice appreciated.
Some things sideboard I'm wondering, should I make room for: 2nd collective brutality? Deprive? 3rd Ceremonious Rejection? Any other advice appreciated.
I use to run an esper version, it felt very mediocre compared to grixis, the esper shell does give you solid pieces but it does not finish games quickly enough. For your list I can see a removal of opts and putting the fourth serum visions and take out on stubborn denial to add two Inquistion of Kozilek since you want to make sure the coast is clear and then land your threat. It is very different from delver and the charm I did like as a surprise effect if the did not know about it.
Here's what I'll be trying out over the next few days. I'm working on the idea that GDS is a bit slower than DSJ, and using Thing in the Ice similar to Tarmagoyf. He starts off a bit weaker (looking at a 0/4 compared to a 3/4 on turn 2), but should come online about the same time (turn 3-4)and his flip effect is nice enough, especially if you have something like TBR in hand. The Clockspinning and Hexmage might be overkill, but we'll see how it plays out in testing. Theoretically, Hexmage is solid as a 2/1 first strike. I felt like Wraiths burned me out too fast, so I dropped them. It's an experiment, we'll see how it plays out.
I was just wondering if you guys bring in Disdainful Stroke against Ad Nauseam? It counters Ad Nauseam itself which is key card since they can't combo off without it but I'm not sure if it's worth just because of this because it doesn't counter anything else.
Of course you bring it in, Ad Nauseam is their win condition. Besides, you have so much stuff to take out that there's no reason not to.
Here's what I'll be trying out over the next few days. I'm working on the idea that GDS is a bit slower than DSJ, and using Thing in the Ice similar to Tarmagoyf. He starts off a bit weaker (looking at a 0/4 compared to a 3/4 on turn 2), but should come online about the same time (turn 3-4)and his flip effect is nice enough, especially if you have something like TBR in hand. The Clockspinning and Hexmage might be overkill, but we'll see how it plays out in testing. Theoretically, Hexmage is solid as a 2/1 first strike. I felt like Wraiths burned me out too fast, so I dropped them. It's an experiment, we'll see how it plays out.
Clockspinning also does work against Lotus Bloom. I think you just broke the format.
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The UW control matchup is pretty rough. I was wondering if there is anything to do about it ? Liliana, the last hope is great against them but thats about it. Any ideas ?
The most important thing a GDS player can do is be intelligent about your life total (don't get greedy on the size of your DS), and try to out-patience the storm player. Temur BR puts in work against storm as well.
There are two types of storm players. Those who try to go all in on the combo as aggressively as they can, and those who play storm like it's chess.
This seems true for a lot of decks. I switched to this deck from Burn. Before I did I saw so many Death's Shadow opponents go too aggressive into dropping a large Death's Shadow allowing me to just burn them out. Conversely I've watched so many fellow Burn players go to fast at trying to "bolt face" in matches where they need to be the control deck. I kind of feel one of the best things we can is take advantage when we recognize our opponent (whether on Storm or anything else) is incapable of switching gears.
Here are some great articles describing this:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/23775_Eight_CorePrinciples_Of_Whos_The_Beatdown.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36014_The-Modern-Plays-Youre-Not-Making-And-Should-Be.html
Pia and Kiran Nalaar is really good against them. Haymakers like that are what you want. But fundamentally the matchup is a bit rough.
Not in my experience - at least in the 19 land builds. P&K (and MD LotV) has been crucial in control matchups for me.
Edit: it's a control matchup - the games will go long, and you'll hit your land drops.
2 Nihil spellbomb in the SB is always 100% in. You need gy hate in modern, that's it.
Not bringing them is just begging to see Dredge every round.
I sided in 2 Temur Battle Rage to fight with those unexpected deck such as Dredge.
If your meta has 0 decks it's effective against then you can hedge and cut them for better cards. If you do I would recommend (like Yong said) to have TBR's for the random matchups like Dredge or Living End. While they might be at an all time low in the grand scheme of things you never know when someone will show up with one of those decks to an FNM. Another reason why I like TBR right now, it's your all purpose "no nonsense, no BS" swiss army knife.
As for Deprive, the card is probably fine in a meta of like over 20% Scapeshift. It's not the greatest vs. ETron since they run Cavern and IOK lines up a lot cleaner against a Chalice. I'm also not sure how much stronger it is against UWx control decks since they run Verdict which can only be stopped by a seize anyway. For me everytime I think of adding it in I think of back when I used to play this version with Delvers (that had 2 mana leaks) and I would always hate drawing it since it always clashed with the curve and by the time I could hold it up it was usually too late anyway. Feel free to test it out yourself though.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
It seems like the base idea came from DSJ that replacing Traverse with cantrips. I think that build just hotcake for single moment and I still believe that we need our snappy and commands to do close the gap for our bad matchups. Smash some artifacts from affinity, crushes chalice and even get us ready to grind against controls deck. But one thing is that its hard for a grixis DS play alike DSJ. They have their explosiveness, but we have our late game stable.
Absolutely worth it. They can't win without resolving Ad Nauseum, or some >=4 mana haymaker out of the board like Grave Titan.
Some things about the mainboard I'm wondering, is Liliana of the Veil worth playing 2 of lately? Or any of? I like the tombstalker, personally, but do you think it should be a 2nd Tasigur like most lists run? I don't run the 2 IoK that most lists run, do you think this is a mistake? Any other advice appreciated.
Some things sideboard I'm wondering, should I make room for: 2nd collective brutality? Deprive? 3rd Ceremonious Rejection? Any other advice appreciated.
4 Flooded Strand
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
creatures
4 Death's Shadow
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Tombstalker
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
3 Fatal Push
2 Opt
1 Orzhov Charm
3 Path to Exile
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
2 Lingering Souls
3 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Collective Brutality
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Disenchant
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lingering Souls
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Stubborn Denial
3x Clockspinning
2x Deprive
3x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Opt
2x Stubborn Denial
2x Temur Battle Rage
3x Thought Scour
Creature (16)
4x Death's Shadow
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Thing in the Ice
2x Vampire Hexmage
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Sorcery (5)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Collective Brutality
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Echoing Ruin
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Flaying Tendrils
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Surgical Extraction
Here's what I'll be trying out over the next few days. I'm working on the idea that GDS is a bit slower than DSJ, and using Thing in the Ice similar to Tarmagoyf. He starts off a bit weaker (looking at a 0/4 compared to a 3/4 on turn 2), but should come online about the same time (turn 3-4)and his flip effect is nice enough, especially if you have something like TBR in hand. The Clockspinning and Hexmage might be overkill, but we'll see how it plays out in testing. Theoretically, Hexmage is solid as a 2/1 first strike. I felt like Wraiths burned me out too fast, so I dropped them. It's an experiment, we'll see how it plays out.
Of course you bring it in, Ad Nauseam is their win condition. Besides, you have so much stuff to take out that there's no reason not to.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Clockspinning also does work against Lotus Bloom. I think you just broke the format.