I think what you board in and board out is good. I would bring in 1 EE as some of them playing chalice and our discard are very good against it unless they have topdeck it. I would play surgical extraction when discard a titan and extract them are enough to win the game.
I agree,I actually just before this tournament switched off of surgical in favor of temur battle-rage. Thus far (from a very small sample size) I've liked battle-rage much much more. It lets you steal games from otherwise difficult match-ups, especially against decks playing lingering souls. I additionally have found surgical as kind of underwhelming, it is of course very good here.
I actually take off temur battle rage from my 75 long time ago. Its excellent when your threat stick in battlefield. Been stuck in my hand before without having chance to cast it. Against tokens, I been using last hope instead and so far she is doing extremely good job. But I guess it personal choices after all.
I find if you want battle rage, it's to overwhelm in game 1. They bring in their removal fir game 2 and 3 so TBR often becomes a 2 for 1. However, for 1 less mana, I'm finding I'm ending games earlier with Expedite. I do pull it out during boarding though often for answers. Even if your target is removed, you get the replacement card.
I find if you want battle rage, it's to overwhelm in game 1. They bring in their removal fir game 2 and 3 so TBR often becomes a 2 for 1. However, for 1 less mana, I'm finding I'm ending games earlier with Expedite. I do pull it out during boarding though often for answers. Even if your target is removed, you get the replacement card.
Not if they kill your target in response to the expedite.
For some reason it wasn't letting me post my reply. It was more detailed but I don't wanna rewrite the whole thing so here's the short(er) version:
Be aggressive game 1 but not overly so. It's ok to spend a few turns stripping their hand to maximize the chance your threat sticks.
Post board I like subbing out angler for 2 pyro. Tasigur is much better than angler in this matchup anyway. Pyro is an additional threat that doesn't rely on the graveyard and can force out supreme verdicts on it's own.
Also board in every version of liliana you have. Tough matchup for sure but not unwinnable
My local meta is oversaturated with midrange decks. Any advice for the main or sideboard to try and skew advantage points towards beating these decks? I've been playing GDS before the list became streamlined and have run into a bit of a wall against midrange at my local LGS. It is starting to frustrate me but I realize that I'm already at a bit of disadvantage from the get go. Your input would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Hey guys, any tips outside of hoping to dodge the match vs uw control? Or any good videos of the matchup?
I face it every league in mtgo and whenever I cast my first discard spell and see a hand full of removals and supreme verdicts I want to cry. Trying to kill before supreme verdict is almost impossible, and if I try to grind their hand first I am playing their game and letting them buy lot of time which is a losing proposition.
I am no expert, But I think it is ok to try and grind a little against them.
One big mistake I see players make is the control player will play Ancestral vision, and then GDS will play thoughtseize.
If they have an early AV just draw, play land and go, maybe dig yourself a little with can trips etc. Wait for the AV to go off, they will "draw" a lot of cards, but remember, they can only have 7 cars in hand so they will have to discard some. Then on your turn start stripping there hand the best you can with thought seize, snap caster etc. I have also found it is best to only play a creature if you have 1 U open to show stubborn denial.
every game I have ever won was by slowing down, stripping there hand of the important things. Most games have been decided by either running out of threats before they run out of removal, or having 1 more threat than they could deal with.
Basically he's strongly advocating for young pyromancers in the board among a few other things. I haven't been on the deck for super long but I've ran games with and without pyro in the board and I'm a big fan. I don't think there's room in the main for them but access to them in the side gives us a very nice out to grave hate, pro black creatures, good in the mirror and grindy matchups in general.
Also of note (which helps the pyro plan post board) the list has -1 fetch and -1 wraith for 2 sleight of hands in the main.
I read the article, while the YP is interesting. I must disagree some points from personal experiences. (I like the card myself, but not really sure how it fairs in the deck)
1. He's being counter intuitive with taking out brutality, but still side them in some matchups (might be a type) But i disagree cutting brutality at all. This card single handily beats burn, and comes in in more than that matchup. Examples of matchups id side it in; storm, UWx control, titanshift(even company decks, if you dont have more slots)
2. Siding out denials vs. E-tron. This is the only card which gets chalice on the draw. Although we do have means to fight a resolved chalice. Not keeping any post-board makes us really more vurneable to it especially since we take out a pair of IoK. And it counters 80% of the deck, possibly more after sideboard.
3. Mirror; Siding out Street Wraith. From my personal experiences, this is all about who gets to play a delve creature with protection. And Street Wraith is the card which allows us to play those early delve creatures and/or shadows. Yes it can be a grind fest, but not maximizing those chances to get an early delve/shadow loses a lot of percentages to me.
4. Siding YP vs. affinity. I'm willing to cut a delve creature here, since it's doesnt really block well. Most of the affinity creatures fly, so YP doesnt block them. We cant go wider than them, since they are very likely to be faster than us.
5. Siding out Street wraith vs. storm. This matchup is all about speed, and getting those early delve creatures the better chance it is for us to win the match. Especially with feriocious. Yes, remand sucks, hence why i also cut an angler. But we're the aggressor, don't let them have the time they want.
I'd personally -Push +Bolt main, and have a surgical extraction to help with YP. I will try YP build in a local tournament this saturday myself, since Dylan was so hyped on it.
Feel free to criticize, we're all here to learn. And these are from my experiences.
I've been playing 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar in the SB for all of these reasons and more for some time now. I tried Young Pyromancer the other day after reading that article, and it was ok, but I prefer P&K. Flying is important to fight against Lingering Souls and Affinity. Immediate value is also important in any grindy matchup. And the tokens can block Etched Champion. YP has some upsides, but I've found that it's hard to unload a ton of spells with him in a single turn, so he has to sit on the battlefield unmolested for several turns to generate a lot of value. The double red of P&K is a bit annoying, but worth it IMO.
Edit: the main place that YP seems better is vs something like Elves where they are unlikely to have removal and you really want your go-wide plan to come online as fast as possible.
I had it in vs. Merfolk and elves. I don't think these are the matchup where you want them.(although they are better than nothing) A sweeper is much more better than making tokens. It was very good vs the grindier matchup. Played vs bg midrange UWx control and the go wide strategy really helped closing out and dealing with planeswalkers.
4-0d a local yesterday, going 8-1 in games against RG TitanShift twice, UR Kiln Fiend, and Boros Burn. I wanted to test a few cards, so my list is gonna look like a bit of a pile. But I'm curious what people think of some of the choices:
Flashfreeze was a meta call, as I saw a ton of red decks in the room. I didn't see it once, so it's probably unnecessary. But it would've been good at any time.
I saw Mana Leak a ton, so at least I got good info. It countered a turn 3 Chameleon Colossus, an Eidolon, and a crucial blocker in Sakura Tribe-Elder, which the fourth Stubborn Denial would not have been able to do. It also forced one of my RG opponents to search up Wood Elves instead of Primeval Titan with Summoner's Pact because he saw Mana Leak game 1 and wanted to play around it. There was only one instance where I wanted it to be a Stubborn Denial or the second Inquisition of Kozilek. Sure, small sample size, but being able to deal with creatures on the stack is, I think, worth talking about. It's also nice in game 2, when you have Pyromancer instead of a Delve threat and need to counter something when they're playing around Stubborn Denial. Perhaps it's awkward when you have OG Lili, but that's true of Denial, too. Not saying Mana Leak is a slam dunk, but I was more impressed with it than I thought I'd be.
No Surgical with Pyromancers in the board might be a mistake, but I like the versatility of a card like Rakdos Charm because I can bring it in against Dredge, Affinity, and even EldraziTron. I also might want to add another sweeper effect in most metas.
Another question I had is about my sideboard plan. I think I did something like this:
Out: -3 Fatal Push, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Terminate, -1 Sleight of Hand, -1 Kolaghan's Command
In: +2 Young Pyromancer, +2 Temur Battle Rage, +1 Stubborn Denial, +1 Collective Brutality, +1 Flashfreeze (or Countersquall, which is normally in my sideboard)
In hindsight, boarding out the K-Command is probably a mistake, but I didn't think I'd get a ton of great 2-for-1 opportunities with it because I did't think the matchup is really about card advantage. But having another card that makes them discard seems worth it if you can get them hellbent. So I'd probably take out something else instead of K-Command.
Certainly worth considering - might test that. You get the extra Shock from your land, which most often is a feature, not a bug. The main drawback is its casting cost: UU. Since lists normally run two Blood Crypts and a Swamp, there is a fair chance that you won't be able to cast it in a lot of games. Something like Censor might be interesting 'cuz you can cycle it when it's bad, and most players don't "play around Daze." (I wish Miscalculation were legal.) It could alter people's play patterns if you get them with it in game 1, in which case you could even board it out because it will have accomplished its mission. But running Censor seems pretty loose in general.
Certainly worth considering - might test that. You get the extra Shock from your land, which most often is a feature, not a bug. The main drawback is its casting cost: UU. Since lists normally run two Blood Crypts and a Swamp, there is a fair chance that you won't be able to cast it in a lot of games. Something like Censor might be interesting 'cuz you can cycle it when it's bad, and most players don't "play around Daze." (I wish Miscalculation were legal.) It could alter people's play patterns if you get them with it in game 1, in which case you could even board it out because it will have accomplished its mission. But running Censor seems pretty loose in general.
Getting Snapcaster + Deprive online is also much harder, both because of colors and because the first time you cast Deprive you are forced to miss a land drop.
I've been running 2 Leak instead of 2 IoK for some time now and still like it, but it's really close. The main benefit is better matchups against big mana decks, but it also helps a bit vs. Ad Naus, burn, and >3 CMC randomness.
In a meta that is pretty hostile to GDS (Mirran crusaders abound) what are people's thoughts on running something like Pongify/Rapid Hybridization?
It's 1 one mana answer to most creatures and specifically the problem creatures like Mirran's and Chameleon Colossus and our shadows/delve threats are bigger than the token it leaves behind.
Saw this in channelfireball by Paulo Vitor. However, I am having disagreement on the final part on Kolaghan's Command and Snap. I would still remain 2 kcommand in main since it only the way to deal with resolved chalice. It also add favor for us against affinity etc. Snap could be slow but I think he is important especially in late game, and there is no way for me to cut his number in my deck. The LotV MD seems interesting for me and might try swap 2 denial to 2 LotV and walk a proactive way.
The article is great. Although there are some things about his choices that i don´t particularly agree with. 3 Lilis in the MB seems too much since Liliana is actually bad against out hardest matchups(Go wide aggro in all its forms) and it's been pretty medium against Eldrazi in my experience(contrary to what he claims). Matter Reshaper is good against her and Reality Smasher/Walking Ballista are superb too.
I'm not sure i want to shave all Stubborn Denials from the MB since they have won me so many games i can't even count them. Having random protection against topdecked nonsense and whatnot has been excellent for me, and i think cutting Stubbys from the MB will make our combo matchup worse by a margin(not wide since cutting Denials comes with an uptick of IOK).
3 Snapcasters can work just fine since i often find 2 of them stranded in my hand or scrying them to the bottom. I don't mind having 3 or 4.
PVs premise seems coherent. You win more matchups by being Jundy instead of being Grixish(?). Being more proactive could be better. I think i will test his list and come back to report my learnings.
What do you guys think of the build that uses Kiln Fiends, Thing in the ice and claim to fame as a way to punish the hostile GDS meta? I've only tried it locally at FNM level and some local leagues and I'd like to know what more people think about these changes.
The main reason I decided to switch over was the prominence of titanshift decks in my local meta, together with quite a lot of CoCo variants(elves, humans, value town...). I assumed that taking an agressive approach to the meta while mantaining an edge against the rest of the field with my discard and conditional counters was where I wanted to be. I think cutting the snaps was a bad idea, but I'm not sure what to take out to make them fit.
Any cricism is appreciated!
You just made a tier 1 deck equal to UR BLOO and Elemental Shotgun
Considering your list, i'd run Tasigur/Angler over TiTi.
I find if you want battle rage, it's to overwhelm in game 1. They bring in their removal fir game 2 and 3 so TBR often becomes a 2 for 1. However, for 1 less mana, I'm finding I'm ending games earlier with Expedite. I do pull it out during boarding though often for answers. Even if your target is removed, you get the replacement card.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Not if they kill your target in response to the expedite.
Be aggressive game 1 but not overly so. It's ok to spend a few turns stripping their hand to maximize the chance your threat sticks.
Post board I like subbing out angler for 2 pyro. Tasigur is much better than angler in this matchup anyway. Pyro is an additional threat that doesn't rely on the graveyard and can force out supreme verdicts on it's own.
Also board in every version of liliana you have. Tough matchup for sure but not unwinnable
I am no expert, But I think it is ok to try and grind a little against them.
One big mistake I see players make is the control player will play Ancestral vision, and then GDS will play thoughtseize.
If they have an early AV just draw, play land and go, maybe dig yourself a little with can trips etc. Wait for the AV to go off, they will "draw" a lot of cards, but remember, they can only have 7 cars in hand so they will have to discard some. Then on your turn start stripping there hand the best you can with thought seize, snap caster etc. I have also found it is best to only play a creature if you have 1 U open to show stubborn denial.
every game I have ever won was by slowing down, stripping there hand of the important things. Most games have been decided by either running out of threats before they run out of removal, or having 1 more threat than they could deal with.
It is definitely a hard match up though.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35674_The-Death-Of-Traditional-Deaths-Shadow.html
Basically he's strongly advocating for young pyromancers in the board among a few other things. I haven't been on the deck for super long but I've ran games with and without pyro in the board and I'm a big fan. I don't think there's room in the main for them but access to them in the side gives us a very nice out to grave hate, pro black creatures, good in the mirror and grindy matchups in general.
Also of note (which helps the pyro plan post board) the list has -1 fetch and -1 wraith for 2 sleight of hands in the main.
1. He's being counter intuitive with taking out brutality, but still side them in some matchups (might be a type) But i disagree cutting brutality at all. This card single handily beats burn, and comes in in more than that matchup. Examples of matchups id side it in; storm, UWx control, titanshift(even company decks, if you dont have more slots)
2. Siding out denials vs. E-tron. This is the only card which gets chalice on the draw. Although we do have means to fight a resolved chalice. Not keeping any post-board makes us really more vurneable to it especially since we take out a pair of IoK. And it counters 80% of the deck, possibly more after sideboard.
3. Mirror; Siding out Street Wraith. From my personal experiences, this is all about who gets to play a delve creature with protection. And Street Wraith is the card which allows us to play those early delve creatures and/or shadows. Yes it can be a grind fest, but not maximizing those chances to get an early delve/shadow loses a lot of percentages to me.
4. Siding YP vs. affinity. I'm willing to cut a delve creature here, since it's doesnt really block well. Most of the affinity creatures fly, so YP doesnt block them. We cant go wider than them, since they are very likely to be faster than us.
5. Siding out Street wraith vs. storm. This matchup is all about speed, and getting those early delve creatures the better chance it is for us to win the match. Especially with feriocious. Yes, remand sucks, hence why i also cut an angler. But we're the aggressor, don't let them have the time they want.
I'd personally -Push +Bolt main, and have a surgical extraction to help with YP. I will try YP build in a local tournament this saturday myself, since Dylan was so hyped on it.
Feel free to criticize, we're all here to learn. And these are from my experiences.
Edit: the main place that YP seems better is vs something like Elves where they are unlikely to have removal and you really want your go-wide plan to come online as fast as possible.
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Street Wraith
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Mana Leak
3 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Flashfreeze
1 Collective Brutality
2 Temur Battle Rage
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Young Pyromancer
Flashfreeze was a meta call, as I saw a ton of red decks in the room. I didn't see it once, so it's probably unnecessary. But it would've been good at any time.
I saw Mana Leak a ton, so at least I got good info. It countered a turn 3 Chameleon Colossus, an Eidolon, and a crucial blocker in Sakura Tribe-Elder, which the fourth Stubborn Denial would not have been able to do. It also forced one of my RG opponents to search up Wood Elves instead of Primeval Titan with Summoner's Pact because he saw Mana Leak game 1 and wanted to play around it. There was only one instance where I wanted it to be a Stubborn Denial or the second Inquisition of Kozilek. Sure, small sample size, but being able to deal with creatures on the stack is, I think, worth talking about. It's also nice in game 2, when you have Pyromancer instead of a Delve threat and need to counter something when they're playing around Stubborn Denial. Perhaps it's awkward when you have OG Lili, but that's true of Denial, too. Not saying Mana Leak is a slam dunk, but I was more impressed with it than I thought I'd be.
No Surgical with Pyromancers in the board might be a mistake, but I like the versatility of a card like Rakdos Charm because I can bring it in against Dredge, Affinity, and even EldraziTron. I also might want to add another sweeper effect in most metas.
Another question I had is about my sideboard plan. I think I did something like this:
Out: -3 Fatal Push, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Terminate, -1 Sleight of Hand, -1 Kolaghan's Command
In: +2 Young Pyromancer, +2 Temur Battle Rage, +1 Stubborn Denial, +1 Collective Brutality, +1 Flashfreeze (or Countersquall, which is normally in my sideboard)
In hindsight, boarding out the K-Command is probably a mistake, but I didn't think I'd get a ton of great 2-for-1 opportunities with it because I did't think the matchup is really about card advantage. But having another card that makes them discard seems worth it if you can get them hellbent. So I'd probably take out something else instead of K-Command.
Thanks, y'all!
Certainly worth considering - might test that. You get the extra Shock from your land, which most often is a feature, not a bug. The main drawback is its casting cost: UU. Since lists normally run two Blood Crypts and a Swamp, there is a fair chance that you won't be able to cast it in a lot of games. Something like Censor might be interesting 'cuz you can cycle it when it's bad, and most players don't "play around Daze." (I wish Miscalculation were legal.) It could alter people's play patterns if you get them with it in game 1, in which case you could even board it out because it will have accomplished its mission. But running Censor seems pretty loose in general.
Getting Snapcaster + Deprive online is also much harder, both because of colors and because the first time you cast Deprive you are forced to miss a land drop.
I've been running 2 Leak instead of 2 IoK for some time now and still like it, but it's really close. The main benefit is better matchups against big mana decks, but it also helps a bit vs. Ad Naus, burn, and >3 CMC randomness.
It's 1 one mana answer to most creatures and specifically the problem creatures like Mirran's and Chameleon Colossus and our shadows/delve threats are bigger than the token it leaves behind.
Saw this in channelfireball by Paulo Vitor. However, I am having disagreement on the final part on Kolaghan's Command and Snap. I would still remain 2 kcommand in main since it only the way to deal with resolved chalice. It also add favor for us against affinity etc. Snap could be slow but I think he is important especially in late game, and there is no way for me to cut his number in my deck. The LotV MD seems interesting for me and might try swap 2 denial to 2 LotV and walk a proactive way.
I'm not sure i want to shave all Stubborn Denials from the MB since they have won me so many games i can't even count them. Having random protection against topdecked nonsense and whatnot has been excellent for me, and i think cutting Stubbys from the MB will make our combo matchup worse by a margin(not wide since cutting Denials comes with an uptick of IOK).
3 Snapcasters can work just fine since i often find 2 of them stranded in my hand or scrying them to the bottom. I don't mind having 3 or 4.
PVs premise seems coherent. You win more matchups by being Jundy instead of being Grixish(?). Being more proactive could be better. I think i will test his list and come back to report my learnings.
You just made a tier 1 deck equal to UR BLOO and Elemental Shotgun
Considering your list, i'd run Tasigur/Angler over TiTi.