With the deck being only 31% lands (or 28% in the Ari build), the odds are much higher that it would be a nonland card. Playing to the odds makes topping the land a better play, on average. Unless you're flooded on mana and just really don't care about the free land, then it's probably better to play to the higher potential upside even if it's lower odds.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I don't believe Surgical is right for Valakut/Tron matchups, especially without Fulminator. Scouring them and hoping to get lucky seems highly ambitious likely a bad use of Scour. If big mana is a problem my preference is to tune the deck by putting in Disdainful>Rejection and put a clock on them+disrupt them through countermagic and discard.
I also don't believe Extraction is that good vs. Storm, but I could be wrong.
Against RG Titanshift/Valakut, surgically extracting Primeval Titan from their deck is really good. Scapeshift is less of a problem thanks to Stubborn Denial, but it makes a good secondary target. Without the Fulminator Mages, I also don't like Surgical Extraction that much vs. Tron. It's still not really bad, because Tron is a relatively threat-light deck. If Karn has been extracted, they will have a hard time getting their remaining 8-10 threats past our 6-7 counterspells + 4 Snapcaster Mages. Against Storm, extracting their Into the Warrens will often be backbreaking. But that's not really needed and we usually have plenty of other good stuff to side in.
It sounds like you guys also share the same sentiments as I do about surgical. Have you guys cut them then? The only other card it seems sweet against is Lingering Souls but bringing in card disadvantage against a grindy deck seems pretty bad.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
It sounds like you guys also share the same sentiments as I do about surgical. Have you guys cut them then? The only other card it seems sweet against is Lingering Souls but bringing in card disadvantage against a grindy deck seems pretty bad.
Extracting a Lingering Souls isn't really card disadvantage. You're trading it for a card they could have cast, and Souls is so back-breaking for us that I think it's totally worth it.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Nihil Spellbomb also does a similar thing for copies already in the yard and replaces itself. The problem is that this is only one scenario out of a a very few that we would even want to bring in the card against. I think you are highly highly overrating souls as well. The card is solid, that's for sure. It has and continues to be one of the best cards that BWx decks can bring in against Grixis (or Jeskai) decks and is hard to deal with efficiently but this deck operates quite differently from Grixis midrange or control. Quite often souls tokens will have to chump block our threats since they are quite large, which means that they can only get in for so much damage at a time. If souls truly was as backbreaking as people make it out to be then we would see way more copies of it than we do (and more shadow decks would splash for it). That being said I can understand why you think that Surgical is a solid SB card, but unless there are other cards in addition to souls that our sideboards really can't answer I'm going to have to bench my copies of Surgicals for now.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
How are they similar at all? You'd have to pay 2 life and 2 for a Goyf instead of just B and you have to exile the creature at the end step. In the Grixis version, you'd have to pay 2 life and 2 to get back Snapcaster, then 2 life and 1 to flashback and get a Shadow, and then you'd have to exile both of them at the end step. Claim // Fame does that for BB and you get to keep your creatures. Also, I think the Fame half should not be neglected, especially in topdeck wars. You can play an Angler, give it haste and squeeze in 7 damage or kill an opposing LotV in the same turn. I am not saying that Claim // Fame is the best card ever or that it actually is as good as I want it to be (without having done any playtesting), but comparing Postmortem Lunge to this card is just wrong because the discrepancy between their power levels is kinda huge, especially because Claim // Fame can be used in decks that are not eager to lose life.
I don't want to derail the thread (sorry if I am) but wouldn't a Sultai shell would be better for Claim // Fame? having access to snap, tarmogoyf (plus travers and baubble), and being able to swap terminate for abrupt or using dismember, murderous cut, or even putrefyin any case?
Back on topic, with the abundance of mirran crusaders could adding a number of bolts to the side would be a good idea? I didn't like cutting them from the main but perhaps I was focusing too much on the eldrazi match up...
(1) Fame is not in Sultai colors. Sultai Shadow is problematic in general because it tends to rely too much on the graveyard. Claim // Fame looks as if it could find a place in combo-orientated DSJ builds.
(2) Lightning Bolt is a flexible maindeck card but underwhelming as a sideboard card. A third Anger/Tendrils/KReturn is probably the better choice for the sideboard.
The deck wouldn't change much, because its low land count is not Jace-friendly. If Jace saw a lot of play in other decks, 3+ Stubborn Denials and some Lightning Bolts would make even more sense. Sideboard-wise, Dreadbore, Disdainful Stroke and Countersquall would become more attractive.
I just finished my Grixis Shadow deck. I'm goldfishing and I find the hands to be less than desirable (I came from Grixis Delver so my mindset might be off). What's the ideal 7 against an unknown opponent G1?
I just finished my Grixis Shadow deck. I'm goldfishing and I find the hands to be less than desirable (I came from Grixis Delver so my mindset might be off). What's the ideal 7 against an unknown opponent G1?
A discard spell, a cantrip, a fetchland, a threat, it's hard to have bad opening hands if you have lands and spells.
Finally gave in and bought the pieces I was missing on TCG, but in the meantime I played it for the first time on mtgo
Man, the deck feels so damn powerful, it feels like it has the answer to almost everything.
Grixis definitely feels better than DSJ, it doesn't feel so "all in", where the blow-outs can be real. The deck isn't playing with 6x bad cards (4x Baubles, 2x Tarfires). The fact Angler and Tasigur dodge push just make them better than a 7/8 Goyf. Can't believe DSJ even lasted as long as it did.
I don't know too much about sideboarding for this deck, I know the wraiths come out against super aggro, and it seems like 2x Anglers and 1x Thought Scour come out when you expect some heavy GY hate. Is there any philosophy you guys could share with me on this?
So, I'm seeing a lot of Crusaders now in my meta and on MTGO, and Affinity is now ticking up (Which is funny, because it's better when it hasn't performed well).
My meta is very competitive and the average attendance is 40 plus, so I decided to just gear towards what seems meta in general right now.
I'm seeing people trying to shove Crusaders and other anti-grixis cards in their 75, which is why I put in Flaying Tendrils and EE, along with my 1 of bolt in the main. I really dislike only having 2x Rejections, but I'm not sure what I'd cut...
Chalice is getting huge, and often set on 1, so K-Command seems necessary--What do you guys think, should that be a 3rd rejection?
Flaying is another card geared towards Affinity, and hits most of dredge minus those Amalagms, but it does hit Etched Champions. If not for Affinity or Crusaders, 2x Anger would be the way to go for sure
Do you guys feel Last Hope is any good?
My SB, along with my 60 is pretty cookie-cutter, but the deck runs so smooth why fix whats not broken? I'm mainly just looking to hear from the more experienced players with the deck now
I recently replaced the 2nd LtLH with a 3rd Kolaghan's Command and like it so far. In the aftermath of GP Vegas, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity and Hatebears have become even more popular. LtLH is not what we want against Eldrazi Tron and often is too little too late against Affinity. Kollaghan's Command really shines in these matchups. Against Hatebears, Kollaghan's Command can be great if they have Bladesplicer and/or Tidehollow Sculler, whereas LtLH is just terrible in this matchup.
LtLH is really strong, but with GY hate all over the place she's a bit weaker, and with Chalices all over the place I really like having access to more K Commands. In the 17 land Sleight build, I have 1 K Command MD, 1 SB, and 1 LtLH and 1 LotV SB. But I'm honestly considering finding room for the 3rd command in the SB - maybe by cutting LtLH. I've been trying P&K Nalaar as the grindy SB card that also helps vs swarms lately, and one really nice thing about it is that it doesn't get wrecked by GY hate. But 4 mana is a million.
I think he overprepared for the mirror, I feel like players are better off trusting their skill and luck in the mirror, you need to be prepared for too many decks to focus on the mirror.
Man, the deck feels so damn powerful, it feels like it has the answer to almost everything.
It's definitely got its weaknesses. I'll recap the last 50 pages for you so you don't have to go through it all, lol:
1. Enchantments: We have no way to deal with resolved enchantments. If you run EE you can deal with Rest in Peace and Bitterblossom, but you can't deal with Blood Moon unless you already had your basic swamp and island out, or set an EE on 3 beforehand, and we have no way to deal with Leylines unless you run Echoing Truth in the side, which most of us don't. Leyline of the Void seriously slows us down. You probably won't get to 6 or 7 mana to start hardcasting your delve fatties, although it does happen, so you just have to hope to draw Shadows and beat down with your Snapcasters in the meantime. We're less vulnerable to it than the Jund version, but it still hurts a lot. Leyline of Sanctity is also a beating, because most decks that run it against us are combo or control decks where discard is our best way to interact.
2. Tokens and go-wide decks: These kinds of strategies can be difficult for us to punch through, but we do have some good sideboard options. Sweepers are good, as is LtLH, Staticaster, and TBR.
3. Pro-black creatures: This is a newer plan of attack people are picking up on. A lot of us had dropped Lightning Bolt entirely, but I think we're going to have to go back to at least 1, if not 2 again.
4. Certain Planeswalkers: LotV is an absolute beating if she resolves. Some control decks have been playing the new Gideon, which forces us to extend into Verdicts. Gideon AoZ is also pretty good against us, as he can pump out chump blockers. Elspeth is practically unbeatable if she resolves. Some people play Dreadbore in the side, but I don't love it. You just have to take these problematic walkers with your discard, even if they're a few turns away, unless you have more discard in hand already. Going back to Bolt will probably also help a bit here.
Grixis definitely feels better than DSJ, it doesn't feel so "all in", where the blow-outs can be real. The deck isn't playing with 6x bad cards (4x Baubles, 2x Tarfires). The fact Angler and Tasigur dodge push just make them better than a 7/8 Goyf. Can't believe DSJ even lasted as long as it did.
Eh, there are pluses and minuses to both. Jund is faster and more consistent at applying pressure, but has a much harder time if the game goes long. Goyf getting hit by Push does hurt them, but he's also easier to cast and usually bigger than our delve guys, which is relevant. They also have better general answers like Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. The real reason why Grixis is doing so well, though, is Stubborn Denial. It can protect our game plan against other interactive decks, and protect us from some dangerous top-decks. Even without ferocious turned on, you'll often be able to force spike something important. Nothing feels better than force spiking a Tron player's Ugin on turn 4, lol.
I'm seeing people trying to shove Crusaders and other anti-grixis cards in their 75, which is why I put in Flaying Tendrils and EE, along with my 1 of bolt in the main. I really dislike only having 2x Rejections, but I'm not sure what I'd cut...
It's a matter of preference, but I would change the Tendrils to a Kozilek's Return. Also kills the pro-color creatures, but instant speed means you can kill manlands with it. The exile effect on Tendrils isn't all that great because it doesn't kill Prized Amalgam.
At GP Vegas Owen's list seemed geared towords winning the mirror. I find the 3 Dismember mainboard to much but his sideboard contained 2 Lili of the Veil. The card is great against us but can we run it in the sideboard for the mirror?
Yeah, he was too geared to beat the mirror, IMO. I don't think it's a bad idea to run a 1/1 split of Lilis, though. Last Hope is just better overall in our deck, but Veil is very good in certain matchups, like the mirror, control decks, Bogles, and some combo decks.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
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UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
I don't want to derail the thread (sorry if I am) but wouldn't a Sultai shell would be better for Claim // Fame? having access to snap, tarmogoyf (plus travers and baubble), and being able to swap terminate for abrupt or using dismember, murderous cut, or even putrefyin any case?
Back on topic, with the abundance of mirran crusaders could adding a number of bolts to the side would be a good idea? I didn't like cutting them from the main but perhaps I was focusing too much on the eldrazi match up...
(1) Fame is not in Sultai colors. Sultai Shadow is problematic in general because it tends to rely too much on the graveyard. Claim // Fame looks as if it could find a place in combo-orientated DSJ builds.
(2) Lightning Bolt is a flexible maindeck card but underwhelming as a sideboard card. A third Anger/Tendrils/KReturn is probably the better choice for the sideboard.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Man, the deck feels so damn powerful, it feels like it has the answer to almost everything.
Grixis definitely feels better than DSJ, it doesn't feel so "all in", where the blow-outs can be real. The deck isn't playing with 6x bad cards (4x Baubles, 2x Tarfires). The fact Angler and Tasigur dodge push just make them better than a 7/8 Goyf. Can't believe DSJ even lasted as long as it did.
I don't know too much about sideboarding for this deck, I know the wraiths come out against super aggro, and it seems like 2x Anglers and 1x Thought Scour come out when you expect some heavy GY hate. Is there any philosophy you guys could share with me on this?
So, I'm seeing a lot of Crusaders now in my meta and on MTGO, and Affinity is now ticking up (Which is funny, because it's better when it hasn't performed well).
My main list is super stock
4x Death's Shadow
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Street Wraith
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Gurmag Angler
Spells
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Fatal Push
4x Thought Scour
4x Serum Visions
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
2x Watery Grave
2x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
1x Island
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Collective Brutality
My meta is very competitive and the average attendance is 40 plus, so I decided to just gear towards what seems meta in general right now.
I'm seeing people trying to shove Crusaders and other anti-grixis cards in their 75, which is why I put in Flaying Tendrils and EE, along with my 1 of bolt in the main. I really dislike only having 2x Rejections, but I'm not sure what I'd cut...
Chalice is getting huge, and often set on 1, so K-Command seems necessary--What do you guys think, should that be a 3rd rejection?
Flaying is another card geared towards Affinity, and hits most of dredge minus those Amalagms, but it does hit Etched Champions. If not for Affinity or Crusaders, 2x Anger would be the way to go for sure
Do you guys feel Last Hope is any good?
My SB, along with my 60 is pretty cookie-cutter, but the deck runs so smooth why fix whats not broken? I'm mainly just looking to hear from the more experienced players with the deck now
I think perhaps cutting the 3rd K-Command for a 3rd Rejection may be correct, those 3 drops really start to become clunky
Nelson is running 2x bolt/3x push, and while I don't love losing a push, I have a feeling it could be the right choice
It's definitely got its weaknesses. I'll recap the last 50 pages for you so you don't have to go through it all, lol:
1. Enchantments: We have no way to deal with resolved enchantments. If you run EE you can deal with Rest in Peace and Bitterblossom, but you can't deal with Blood Moon unless you already had your basic swamp and island out, or set an EE on 3 beforehand, and we have no way to deal with Leylines unless you run Echoing Truth in the side, which most of us don't. Leyline of the Void seriously slows us down. You probably won't get to 6 or 7 mana to start hardcasting your delve fatties, although it does happen, so you just have to hope to draw Shadows and beat down with your Snapcasters in the meantime. We're less vulnerable to it than the Jund version, but it still hurts a lot. Leyline of Sanctity is also a beating, because most decks that run it against us are combo or control decks where discard is our best way to interact.
2. Tokens and go-wide decks: These kinds of strategies can be difficult for us to punch through, but we do have some good sideboard options. Sweepers are good, as is LtLH, Staticaster, and TBR.
3. Pro-black creatures: This is a newer plan of attack people are picking up on. A lot of us had dropped Lightning Bolt entirely, but I think we're going to have to go back to at least 1, if not 2 again.
4. Certain Planeswalkers: LotV is an absolute beating if she resolves. Some control decks have been playing the new Gideon, which forces us to extend into Verdicts. Gideon AoZ is also pretty good against us, as he can pump out chump blockers. Elspeth is practically unbeatable if she resolves. Some people play Dreadbore in the side, but I don't love it. You just have to take these problematic walkers with your discard, even if they're a few turns away, unless you have more discard in hand already. Going back to Bolt will probably also help a bit here.
Eh, there are pluses and minuses to both. Jund is faster and more consistent at applying pressure, but has a much harder time if the game goes long. Goyf getting hit by Push does hurt them, but he's also easier to cast and usually bigger than our delve guys, which is relevant. They also have better general answers like Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. The real reason why Grixis is doing so well, though, is Stubborn Denial. It can protect our game plan against other interactive decks, and protect us from some dangerous top-decks. Even without ferocious turned on, you'll often be able to force spike something important. Nothing feels better than force spiking a Tron player's Ugin on turn 4, lol.
It's a matter of preference, but I would change the Tendrils to a Kozilek's Return. Also kills the pro-color creatures, but instant speed means you can kill manlands with it. The exile effect on Tendrils isn't all that great because it doesn't kill Prized Amalgam.
I'm on 3 Rejections right now. The card is stupid good against certain decks, like E-tron and Affinity.
She's great in grindy matchups, and also against decks with a lot of X/1s. Very powerful in the deck.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun