R1: Eldrazi Tron 1-2 L
R2: Titanshift 0-2 L
R3: Grixis Shadow 2-1 W
R4: Eldrazi Tron 2-1 W
R5: Jund 2-0 W
R6: Eldrazi Tron 1-2 L
R7: Grixis Shadow 0-2 L
R8: Merfolk 2-1 W
R9: Opponent no showed.
My buddies day 2'd at 6-3 and 6-2-1 with Merfolk and Blood Moon Jund. I felt confident going into it, but running into three Eldrazi Tron was horrible. Chalice is so brutal. The mirror match I lost, I drew nothing while my opponent drew all the gas, so I didn't even get a chance to misplay. Dunno if anyone wants more info or not, I'd be happy to go into further detail. That said, I will probably be sleeving up my ol faithful and play Jund again now that Vegas is come and gone.
He drops Bolts(which i don't completely like) and 1 Snap Mage!. I stated before that Snapcaster can clog up in your hand, but it's hard to play only 3 copies of the 2nd best creature ever lol.
I really disagree with his choice to include the extra 4 sleight of hands.. I know he had a good run but on camera it seemed many of his turns were spent tapping out for cantrips and just drawing more cantrips. 12 (if you include wraith, which you should) is plenty and I don't think cutting interaction to spend that much time cantripping is the right choice. Also it opens you up to chalice so much harder
I'm really really interested in ari's list going full turbo xerox mode.
I really like 3 gurmags. I really like minimizing the land count and maximizing the efficiency. The deck already focuses on turns 3-5 where ds is online, so going a stulid number of cantrips for the early game seems okay by me. And with that many cantrips, the 1 k command and the 3 snaps are still great, and youre going to hit good stuff in the late game more often.
I don't know if all 16 cantrips is right but I definitely want to try this list.
I might go -1 terminate and +1 stubborn denial, cause stubborn denial is just so god damn efficient, and the extra negate effect might help possibly against early chalices. I also wonder if we can find a way to hedge against land destruction strategies. Even if its something as stupid as putting an extra land in the sideboard.
I really disagree with his choice to include the extra 4 sleight of hands.. I know he had a good run but on camera it seemed many of his turns were spent tapping out for cantrips and just drawing more cantrips. 12 (if you include wraith, which you should) is plenty and I don't think cutting interaction to spend that much time cantripping is the right choice. Also it opens you up to chalice so much harder
He cut 2 lands, a Snap, and a Bolt for them, though. Most of us have been cutting Bolts anyway lately, and I don't think going to 3 Snaps is necessarily wrong considering it's essentially a 3 drop and he was trying to lower the curve. I'm going to test it out.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Ari has a bit at the end of his SCG premium article today where he basically says 1) adding more cantrips was an obvious thing to do and he's surprised no one did it yet because this is more of a legacy delver deck than a the grindy midrange deck it pretends to be (he also admits it wasn't his idea), and 2) there's still probably a lot of room left to improve this deck.
I need to think about it a bit more, but I think I like the idea. His motivations for wanting more cantrips are basically the same as my motivations for wanting Mana Leak - I view this as more of a tempo deck than an attrition-y midrange deck, and am trying to maximize that angle. So I guess I need to see if I have a set of Sleight of Hands lying around.
He also had LotV in his SB because it's "the best card vs. Eldrazi, wins games through Chalice, and insane in mirrors." I'm telling you guys, she's incredible when you need her. (quoting from https://twitter.com/armlx/status/876570659144388609)
Also, I think this weekend's results are a sign we need to reconsider our SB plans. Ceremonious Rejection + the MD K Commands is not enough hate to fight affinity. Anger is so seductive because it's a sweeper that hits Dredge, but not having access to K Return is really really bad vs. Affinity. I don't know what the solution is, but it's clear that everyone's SB was misbuilt in that T32 (6 Grixis Shadow, 0 other variants in the T32: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplv17/9-32-decklists-2017-06-18).
How bad is the Uxx control matchup for Death Shadow?
It ranges from close to even to bad, depending on the cards that they have. UW control can be close to even. Jeskai and Grixis control tend to be bad because bolt + snap + bolt can just kill you, and the evasive manlands present a similar threat.
Not sure how I feel about a playset of Sleight of Hands since it eats into Snapcasters and Kommands(which is the out to a resolved chalice) but it is nice to see someone else on the Sleight of Hand train. I'm still not sure how I feel about 17 lands, I've been on 18 and still gotten hurt by mana screw a few times so we'll see.
The affinity matchup seems fine with all the removal and Kommands and sweepers we bring in. I think the real reason the deck didn't quite convert as a combination of breakers and the white decks floating around. The top 32 had the hatebear decks, smallpox, abzan, and several decks that ran company. These decks are a lot more tough to fight than affinity. The only thing I can see to fight all of them would be Temur Battle Rage and more sweepers, but that only goes so far. I think this GP was more about decks metagaming to fight us and the results look a bit skewed because of it, so don't fear too much for your local metas.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
How bad is the Uxx control matchup for Death Shadow?
You mean for Blue Shadow, or in general for Shadow decks?
If it's the first, I can say that (from my experience in playing both Grixis and Esper) it's one of our worst match-ups, but it also depends by the archetype you're referring at. "Control" is an empty word, by itself. Esper and Jeskai are the absolute worse. The first, because they play BOTH Push&Path, plus Verdict and Secure the Waste, plus ton of card draws and Snapcasters. The second, because they usually packs tons of Burn spells, and this is huge when they also have actual removals against our early threats. Against UW (with Seas and GQuarters) it depends by their Supreme Verdict and by your Thoughtseizes. If you're able to disrupt them, then it become a decent match-up, even if the manadenial hurts a lot if we're short on mana. Grixis (Spooly says the opposite, but that's my experience) is actually the easier of them, because they can burn you with Snap-Bolt, but they also have so little removals against our threats (no Damnation maindeck, lots of Bolts and less Push/Terminate). Plus, playing a AV/CrypticCommand game against us isn't the best, if we are fast enough.
In my experience, Grixis Control has 4 Terminate, 2 Damnation, and a couple of push post board. But if they have significantly less than that, I can see it being much more even.
Not sure how I feel about a playset of Sleight of Hands since it eats into Snapcasters and Kommands(which is the out to a resolved chalice) but it is nice to see someone else on the Sleight of Hand train. I'm still not sure how I feel about 17 lands, I've been on 18 and still gotten hurt by mana screw a few times so we'll see.
The affinity matchup seems fine with all the removal and Kommands and sweepers we bring in. I think the real reason the deck didn't quite convert as a combination of breakers and the white decks floating around. The top 32 had the hatebear decks, smallpox, abzan, and several decks that ran company. These decks are a lot more tough to fight than affinity. The only thing I can see to fight all of them would be Temur Battle Rage and more sweepers, but that only goes so far. I think this GP was more about decks metagaming to fight us and the results look a bit skewed because of it, so don't fear too much for your local metas.
With 4 Sleight of Hand, you'll get mana screwed about as often with 17 lands as you would with 19 + 0 Sleight. More 0 land hands, but smoother mana overall once you keep.
I disagree about Affinity. The matchup is maybe 50/50 with the standard SB configs because it's hard to beat a resolved Etched Champion, and it's hard to beat a pile of manlands after you answer whatever they do in the early turns.
That T32 wasn't *that* hateful. We need to make sure we can beat Mirran Crusader, but beyond that the CoCo decks weren't that scary. Abzan Vizier Company is a good matchup pretty naturally just because their creatures are tiny, and LtlH + Staticaster do an incredible amount of work. The presence of all the CoCo decks does make me continue to lean toward Anger of the Gods over Kozilek's Return, but I still think we should respect the Affinity matchup more. Wescoe's WG Hatebears list looks very difficult to beat though. But my inclination is to let the rest of the metagame beat up on it for us.
I think you're right about the basic metagame story though. Everyone (including Shadow decks) packed hate for graveyards or for shadow specifically and skimped on hate for Affinity, so Affinity did what Affinity does. This probably means in the next cycle, everyone will be a little more prepared for Affinity and a little less prepared for graveyards and Shadow decks.
Also, I think this weekend's results are a sign we need to reconsider our SB plans. Ceremonious Rejection + the MD K Commands is not enough hate to fight affinity. Anger is so seductive because it's a sweeper that hits Dredge, but not having access to K Return is really really bad vs. Affinity. I don't know what the solution is, but it's clear that everyone's SB was misbuilt in that T32 (6 Grixis Shadow, 0 other variants in the T32: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplv17/9-32-decklists-2017-06-18).
Have you gotten a chance to try Flaying Tendrils at all? It looks better against Dredge than K Return, but still answers Etched Champion and other pro-black creatures.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
My main deck is Esper Draw Go. From that perspective, shadow is an easy match. You really want all 4 denials, as much hand disruption as possible, and surgicals. If you can snap back a surgical against control, you can get into a strong place. Battle Rage and Fall are also good in this matchup. If you surgical extract Path and Verdict they won't be able to kill angler or Tasigur too. I run damnation and blessed alliance to play around stuff like that, but most people don't.
Sorcery speed and not killing amalgams makes it super unappealing. Really wish amalgam was a 3/2 instead, would have made the transition so much easier. Not hitting manlands also hurts, as spooly said. I think the best way to go about it is a mix of these three mana sweepers. Maybe Owen was correct in no running any Staticasters.
Speaking of Owen's list, interesting thing to note is he ran 3 Dismembers and 3 Street Wraiths instead of Terminates. Could this combined with sleight of hand be the new way to run shadow?
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
Also, I think this weekend's results are a sign we need to reconsider our SB plans. Ceremonious Rejection + the MD K Commands is not enough hate to fight affinity. Anger is so seductive because it's a sweeper that hits Dredge, but not having access to K Return is really really bad vs. Affinity. I don't know what the solution is, but it's clear that everyone's SB was misbuilt in that T32 (6 Grixis Shadow, 0 other variants in the T32: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplv17/9-32-decklists-2017-06-18).
Have you gotten a chance to try Flaying Tendrils at all? It looks better against Dredge than K Return, but still answers Etched Champion and other pro-black creatures.
Sorcery speed and not killing amalgams makes it super unappealing. Really wish amalgam was a 3/2 instead, would have made the transition so much easier. Not hitting manlands also hurts, as spooly said. I think the best way to go about it is a mix of these three mana sweepers. Maybe Owen was correct in no running any Staticasters.
Speaking of Owen's list, interesting thing to note is he ran 3 Dismembers and 3 Street Wraiths instead of Terminates. Could this combined with sleight of hand be the new way to run shadow?
I agree with this - Tendrils doesn't hit manlands, which is another big part of wanting K Return. In addition to being worse against Dredge, Tendrils is also worse against Mirran Crusader because most of the decks playing it have ways to put some +1/+1 counters on it - Township, Thalia's Lietenant, etc.
I'm much less sure of what to make of Owen's list. 3 Dismember is very aggressive. But the leaner and lower to the ground the deck becomes, the more defensible Dismember becomes. Not having a way to kill Primeval Titan and some other very large fatties that dodge Push is a bit concerning though.
R1: Eldrazi Tron 1-2 L
R2: Titanshift 0-2 L
R3: Grixis Shadow 2-1 W
R4: Eldrazi Tron 2-1 W
R5: Jund 2-0 W
R6: Eldrazi Tron 1-2 L
R7: Grixis Shadow 0-2 L
R8: Merfolk 2-1 W
R9: Opponent no showed.
My buddies day 2'd at 6-3 and 6-2-1 with Merfolk and Blood Moon Jund. I felt confident going into it, but running into three Eldrazi Tron was horrible. Chalice is so brutal. The mirror match I lost, I drew nothing while my opponent drew all the gas, so I didn't even get a chance to misplay. Dunno if anyone wants more info or not, I'd be happy to go into further detail. That said, I will probably be sleeving up my ol faithful and play Jund again now that Vegas is come and gone.
haha completely forgot about those with delve. they always cast for 1 mana
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
He drops Bolts(which i don't completely like) and 1 Snap Mage!. I stated before that Snapcaster can clog up in your hand, but it's hard to play only 3 copies of the 2nd best creature ever lol.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I really like 3 gurmags. I really like minimizing the land count and maximizing the efficiency. The deck already focuses on turns 3-5 where ds is online, so going a stulid number of cantrips for the early game seems okay by me. And with that many cantrips, the 1 k command and the 3 snaps are still great, and youre going to hit good stuff in the late game more often.
I don't know if all 16 cantrips is right but I definitely want to try this list.
I might go -1 terminate and +1 stubborn denial, cause stubborn denial is just so god damn efficient, and the extra negate effect might help possibly against early chalices. I also wonder if we can find a way to hedge against land destruction strategies. Even if its something as stupid as putting an extra land in the sideboard.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I need to think about it a bit more, but I think I like the idea. His motivations for wanting more cantrips are basically the same as my motivations for wanting Mana Leak - I view this as more of a tempo deck than an attrition-y midrange deck, and am trying to maximize that angle. So I guess I need to see if I have a set of Sleight of Hands lying around.
He also had LotV in his SB because it's "the best card vs. Eldrazi, wins games through Chalice, and insane in mirrors." I'm telling you guys, she's incredible when you need her. (quoting from https://twitter.com/armlx/status/876570659144388609)
Also, I think this weekend's results are a sign we need to reconsider our SB plans. Ceremonious Rejection + the MD K Commands is not enough hate to fight affinity. Anger is so seductive because it's a sweeper that hits Dredge, but not having access to K Return is really really bad vs. Affinity. I don't know what the solution is, but it's clear that everyone's SB was misbuilt in that T32 (6 Grixis Shadow, 0 other variants in the T32: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplv17/9-32-decklists-2017-06-18).
It ranges from close to even to bad, depending on the cards that they have. UW control can be close to even. Jeskai and Grixis control tend to be bad because bolt + snap + bolt can just kill you, and the evasive manlands present a similar threat.
The affinity matchup seems fine with all the removal and Kommands and sweepers we bring in. I think the real reason the deck didn't quite convert as a combination of breakers and the white decks floating around. The top 32 had the hatebear decks, smallpox, abzan, and several decks that ran company. These decks are a lot more tough to fight than affinity. The only thing I can see to fight all of them would be Temur Battle Rage and more sweepers, but that only goes so far. I think this GP was more about decks metagaming to fight us and the results look a bit skewed because of it, so don't fear too much for your local metas.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
In my experience, Grixis Control has 4 Terminate, 2 Damnation, and a couple of push post board. But if they have significantly less than that, I can see it being much more even.
With 4 Sleight of Hand, you'll get mana screwed about as often with 17 lands as you would with 19 + 0 Sleight. More 0 land hands, but smoother mana overall once you keep.
I disagree about Affinity. The matchup is maybe 50/50 with the standard SB configs because it's hard to beat a resolved Etched Champion, and it's hard to beat a pile of manlands after you answer whatever they do in the early turns.
That T32 wasn't *that* hateful. We need to make sure we can beat Mirran Crusader, but beyond that the CoCo decks weren't that scary. Abzan Vizier Company is a good matchup pretty naturally just because their creatures are tiny, and LtlH + Staticaster do an incredible amount of work. The presence of all the CoCo decks does make me continue to lean toward Anger of the Gods over Kozilek's Return, but I still think we should respect the Affinity matchup more. Wescoe's WG Hatebears list looks very difficult to beat though. But my inclination is to let the rest of the metagame beat up on it for us.
I think you're right about the basic metagame story though. Everyone (including Shadow decks) packed hate for graveyards or for shadow specifically and skimped on hate for Affinity, so Affinity did what Affinity does. This probably means in the next cycle, everyone will be a little more prepared for Affinity and a little less prepared for graveyards and Shadow decks.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Speaking of Owen's list, interesting thing to note is he ran 3 Dismembers and 3 Street Wraiths instead of Terminates. Could this combined with sleight of hand be the new way to run shadow?
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
I agree with this - Tendrils doesn't hit manlands, which is another big part of wanting K Return. In addition to being worse against Dredge, Tendrils is also worse against Mirran Crusader because most of the decks playing it have ways to put some +1/+1 counters on it - Township, Thalia's Lietenant, etc.
I'm much less sure of what to make of Owen's list. 3 Dismember is very aggressive. But the leaner and lower to the ground the deck becomes, the more defensible Dismember becomes. Not having a way to kill Primeval Titan and some other very large fatties that dodge Push is a bit concerning though.