Oh, the obvious: LotV is not good in grindy matchups where they have a lot of extraneous dudes, like CoCo decks. So I guess not all grindy matchups. But also, she randomly gives you % points vs things that are otherwise hard to kill. Etched Champion (though this is tricky), Bogles, Geist, etc.
I have been playing Grixis Delver for 8 - 9 months and about two months ago made the switch to Shadow. I played in a tournament over the weekend that had 16.2% of the decks represented by Grixis Shadow. I saw an obscene amount of Shadow hate, the worst being Chalice of the Void. Playing delver for so long I was reluctant to drop to 2 copies of lightning bolt, as bolt snap bolt has won me more games than I can count. With the current meta I am considering dropping to either 1 or 0 bolts as the value of the card in the deck seems to be declining.
In multiple games I would be on the draw and thoughtseize or Inquisition turn 1 and see two chalice of the void and know I am screwed. Taking one does nothing as the other will get cast for x=1 and shut down most of the deck. My plan then became when on the draw to try and hold counter magic for the first Chalice and then use hand removal turn 2 to see if there is a second. The problem with this being we do not have enough counter magic to consistently expect to have one in our opening hand (especially game 1). I don't want to overreact to what was probably an unlucky set of draws, but this situation crippled me and I lost 3 games because of it. During that tournament I ran 3 pushes, 2 bolts and 2 stubborn denial main board.
I am heading to GP Vegas and am worried I am going to see similar amounts of Shadow hate. I see many decks running 4 push and 3 stubs mainboard, which seems to be better at dealing with the hate. I don't like mana leak in this deck but I am wondering how people feel about spell snare. It hits a lot of really annoying cards and in the mirror countering a snapcaster can be game changing. Has anyone played with spell snare and what are the push, bolt, stub ratios people are using and why?
I am more interested in Liliana of the Veil as a mirror breaker if we are supposed to board out all Stubborn Denials for grindy matchups. I've read both ways on this. Do you guys think this is right? On one hand it's a horrendous card in a top deck war, but it's an answer to their answer as well as planeswalker. I'm conflicted on this. Do you treat the Jund/Grixis shadows mirror like a jund mirror for example and shave all counterspells and some wraiths (which SCG writers have advocated, but 3/4 swampwalker is a real thing) and discards (also an answer to their answers as well as planeswalkers, and proactive)?
I side out 3-4 Street Wraith is all grindy matchups. 3/4 swampwalker for 5 is really really bad. If that's what you're doing with the card in the matchup, you should side it out. My only reservation is having enough cantrips to hit land drops, but as long as you're bringing in Nihil Spellbomb you shouldn't have any Wraiths postboard. I typically leave a couple counterspells in, but I also start with more, and Mana Leak on a Snapcaster is pretty good. But I've been trying taking more out lately to get a feel for how it goes. I'm genuinely unsure here.
I used to have LotV in my SB and often in my MD, and even with a bunch of counterspells, it was really good in the mirrors. It made Lingering Souls the only real problematic card they could have, and even then we have plenty of ways to fight through that card. Arguably, she makes potentially dead counterspells better because the downside is less bad when you have a Lily +1 to discard to. Replacing the MD K Commands with LotV was one way I managed to get them MD. Note that this also helps against the GY hate to some extent because you have a powerful threat that doesn't care about the GY that can take over the game all on its own.
Edit: where I'd want LotV:
1) every grindy matchup. Mirrors. Midrange. Control. All of them. This is the main draw.
2) Many spell based combo matchups, as long as you have plenty to board out. Storm. Ad Naus (note: insurance against Dromoka and similar without being dead otherwise!). Probably not GR Valakut because you want your 3 mana spells to kill Chalice (aka be K Command), but if you have enough to board out I could see it.
As a MD card, her floor is pretty high so she isn't the worst against decks not on this list. Just being disruption vs degenerate decks is good even if you'd side her out the first chance you get. I'm not a fan against Bant Eldrazi, CoCo decks, and probably not against Eldrazi Tron either, though I'm unsure there.
Those makes sense, thanks. And it's reasonable to cut wraiths over discards theoretically since discards still hit planeswalkers and counters/kills. I do understand that LotV has a very high floor though. Something I'm motivated to test now ahead of Vegas..
Not sure about everyone but this has felt even/slightly unfavorable for us. It's pretty hard to interact with what they're doing and it's always a delicate dance with your life total. This is the reason why I've been testing Disdainful Stroke and it's been great so far as well as shoring up Ad Nauseam/Storm/other random matchups.
With that said though, has anyone else been inclined to try out Strokes over Rejections? ( I think Spooly has been on Strokes for a while). I'm inclined to keep Rejections for the random Affinity matchups as well as its leanness. But Disdainful Stroke has been very powerful in the right matchups, so maybe a 1/1 split may not be such a bad idea
Not sure about everyone but this has felt even/slightly unfavorable for us. It's pretty hard to interact with what they're doing and it's always a delicate dance with your life total. This is the reason why I've been testing Disdainful Stroke and it's been great so far as well as shoring up Ad Nauseam/Storm/other random matchups.
With that said though, has anyone else been inclined to try out Strokes over Rejections? ( I think Spooly has been on Strokes for a while). I'm inclined to keep Rejections for the random Affinity matchups as well as its leanness. But Disdainful Stroke has been very powerful in the right matchups, so maybe a 1/1 split may not be such a bad idea
Vs. the stock Grixis Shadow lists, I think GR Valakut is slightly favored. If you change the Rejections in the SB to Strokes, it flips in the other direction.
On that topic, I don't think losing Rejection hurts the affinity matchup that much because they dump their hand so quickly. The real place it hurts is vs. Lantern and Ironworks combo. Stroke vs. Rejection is interesting vs. Eldrazi Tron because Stroke dodges Chalice, which is really nice, but of course cheaper is often better, and Rejection can counter Chalice, Relic, etc. In addition to what finalnub mentioned, Stroke also helps vs. Amulet and generic big mana decks (GR Ponza, for example).
Back to the Valakut matchup. This is another matchup where Mana Leak really shines. My build feels very favorable vs. them (with Strokes instead of Rejections in the SB, and Leaks instead of K Commands MD).
Vs. the stock Grixis Shadow lists, I think GR Valakut is slightly favored. If you change the Rejections in the SB to Strokes, it flips in the other direction.
On that topic, I don't think losing Rejection hurts the affinity matchup that much because they dump their hand so quickly. The real place it hurts is vs. Lantern and Ironworks combo. Stroke vs. Rejection is interesting vs. Eldrazi Tron because Stroke dodges Chalice, which is really nice, but of course cheaper is often better, and Rejection can counter Chalice, Relic, etc. In addition to what finalnub mentioned, Stroke also helps vs. Amulet and generic big mana decks (GR Ponza, for example).
Back to the Valakut matchup. This is another matchup where Mana Leak really shines. My build feels very favorable vs. them (with Strokes instead of Rejections in the SB, and Leaks instead of K Commands MD).
You play with Mana Leak instead of K. Commands ? You think It's worth ? I was wondering on putting some Mana Leaks, but is hard to cut something from the stock list =/
I run 2-3 leaks, 3 stubs, 0 IoK, and 0-2 K Command MD, so I guess it's more accurate to say I cut the IoKs, because the K Commands typically make it in there in some quantity. My most recent lists just straight up cut the two IoK for 2 Leak, and kept the 2 K Command. I also tend to run a 3-3 Push/Terminate split instead of 4/2 or mixing any bolts in.
Leaks are good vs. most combo decks and big mana decks, medium in the pseudo-mirror though Leaking a planeswalker or a Snapcaster is very good, a little better in other midrangey matchups, good vs burn, and poor vs other fast aggro, dredge, control, and some other spots. Edit: and decent vs. GY hate that isn't turn 0 leyline.
Here's what I'm testing for Vegas right now.. What would you recommend cutting for a single LotV in the 75? Should it be a card in the 60? I was thinking maybe I can cut one IoK since it serves the same role of disruption if I am maindecking it.
Or if I'm going to put it in the sideboard I think I'd cut one Last Hope for her. Not sure though honestly (easy answer would be battle rage but I'm partial to that card that's won me games I had no business of winning, and helps against a bunch of decks that we struggle against).
I'm creating a sideboard map, using gkourou's post as a starting point but with my own deviations, and had a quick sideboarding question: Against UWx control, do you keep in Kolaghan's Command? It seems like if our threats are removed, they are going to be exiled or put into the library (Condemn) rather than put into the graveyard (assuming they resolve, which obviously isn't guaranteed...), so it seems like Kolaghan's Command is going to be Shock + Discard most of the time. Is it worth keeping in a couple Fatal Push to deal with Colonnades, Spell Quellers, etc. instead of K. Command? Or do you still prefer K. Command in case the threats are countered and for general attrition purposes?
I'm creating a sideboard map, using gkourou's post as a starting point but with my own deviations, and had a quick sideboarding question: Against UWx control, do you keep in Kolaghan's Command? It seems like if our threats are removed, they are going to be exiled or put into the library (Condemn) rather than put into the graveyard (assuming they resolve, which obviously isn't guaranteed...), so it seems like Kolaghan's Command is going to be Shock + Discard most of the time. Is it worth keeping in a couple Fatal Push to deal with Colonnades, Spell Quellers, etc. instead of K. Command? Or do you still prefer K. Command in case the threats are countered and for general attrition purposes?
Definitely keep Kommands in. They also run Supreme Verdict, so you can buy back threats killed off that, and they sometimes run artifacts like Crucible of Worlds that you might want to shatter.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I'm creating a sideboard map, using gkourou's post as a starting point but with my own deviations, and had a quick sideboarding question: Against UWx control, do you keep in Kolaghan's Command? It seems like if our threats are removed, they are going to be exiled or put into the library (Condemn) rather than put into the graveyard (assuming they resolve, which obviously isn't guaranteed...), so it seems like Kolaghan's Command is going to be Shock + Discard most of the time. Is it worth keeping in a couple Fatal Push to deal with Colonnades, Spell Quellers, etc. instead of K. Command? Or do you still prefer K. Command in case the threats are countered and for general attrition purposes?
Definitely keep Kommands in. They also run Supreme Verdict, so you can buy back threats killed off that, and they sometimes run artifacts like Crucible of Worlds that you might want to shatter.
Oh, duh... Wasn't thinking about Verdict even though that's pretty obvious. Crucible is a good point as well. Thanks!
I would probably shave a removal spell or a K Command because she's more directly redundant with those cards. IoK is important as _cheap_ disruption and serves a different role. IMO the Bolt looks the most cuttable. Take your MD and -2 IoK, -1 Bolt, +2 Leak, +1 LotV and that's what i'm most interested in playing right now. I have some different SB ideas however.
o yea, totally forgot about the bolt there. I think I'll cut that first.
I do get your affinity for leak and I've tried it over IoK for a bit, and was iffy on them. 2 mana investment felt like too much a lot of the times and I did miss the praoctivity of a turn 1 discard.
Do you make other changes from the stock list when you are using leaks, like Rejection over Disdainful Stroke for example?
o yea, totally forgot about the bolt there. I think I'll cut that first.
I do get your affinity for leak and I've tried it over IoK for a bit, and was iffy on them. 2 mana investment felt like too much a lot of the times and I did miss the praoctivity of a turn 1 discard.
Do you make other changes from the stock list when you are using leaks, like Rejection over Disdainful Stroke for example?
My SB is constantly in flux because I'm trying new things, but I pretty much always have Stroke over Rejection. Occasionally, but rarely, both!
Izzet Staticaster. I have never run it, but it has been very popular in recent lists. I never felt I had missed out on something, but perhaps that was because I was running Kozilek's Return instead of clunky Anger of the Gods most of the time.
Do you have some good Izzet Staticaster stories to share?
Izzet Staticaster. I have never run it, but it has been very popular in recent lists. I never felt I had missed out on something, but perhaps that was because I was running Kozilek's Return instead of clunky Anger of the Gods most of the time.
Do you have some good Izzet Staticaster stories to share?
Staticaster is good because it's a repeatable effect. Against certain decks, you can lock them out of playing their cards until they find a removal spell for him.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Izzet Staticaster has won me multiple games against affinity. EOT flash it in and kill something, then untap with it in play. A few draw steps later they scoop if they haven't hit an Etched Champion. Other than that it beats Lingering Souls without breaking a sweat, and against classic Abzan I've actually managed to finish of a Siege Rhino/Tasigur stalemate with it.
I won't be removing it from the sideboard anytime soon.
Lets assume we got only two sideboard slots left and want to dedicate those to recurring creature removal. The sideboard has 2 Anger of the Gods already and we don't want to go overboard against small creature decks. So, it would likely be either:
1) 1x Liliana the Last Hope, 1x Izzet Staticaster
2) 2x Liliana the Last Hope
In multiple games I would be on the draw and thoughtseize or Inquisition turn 1 and see two chalice of the void and know I am screwed. Taking one does nothing as the other will get cast for x=1 and shut down most of the deck. My plan then became when on the draw to try and hold counter magic for the first Chalice and then use hand removal turn 2 to see if there is a second. The problem with this being we do not have enough counter magic to consistently expect to have one in our opening hand (especially game 1). I don't want to overreact to what was probably an unlucky set of draws, but this situation crippled me and I lost 3 games because of it. During that tournament I ran 3 pushes, 2 bolts and 2 stubborn denial main board.
I am heading to GP Vegas and am worried I am going to see similar amounts of Shadow hate. I see many decks running 4 push and 3 stubs mainboard, which seems to be better at dealing with the hate. I don't like mana leak in this deck but I am wondering how people feel about spell snare. It hits a lot of really annoying cards and in the mirror countering a snapcaster can be game changing. Has anyone played with spell snare and what are the push, bolt, stub ratios people are using and why?
Those makes sense, thanks. And it's reasonable to cut wraiths over discards theoretically since discards still hit planeswalkers and counters/kills. I do understand that LotV has a very high floor though. Something I'm motivated to test now ahead of Vegas..
Not sure about everyone but this has felt even/slightly unfavorable for us. It's pretty hard to interact with what they're doing and it's always a delicate dance with your life total. This is the reason why I've been testing Disdainful Stroke and it's been great so far as well as shoring up Ad Nauseam/Storm/other random matchups.
With that said though, has anyone else been inclined to try out Strokes over Rejections? ( I think Spooly has been on Strokes for a while). I'm inclined to keep Rejections for the random Affinity matchups as well as its leanness. But Disdainful Stroke has been very powerful in the right matchups, so maybe a 1/1 split may not be such a bad idea
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Vs. the stock Grixis Shadow lists, I think GR Valakut is slightly favored. If you change the Rejections in the SB to Strokes, it flips in the other direction.
On that topic, I don't think losing Rejection hurts the affinity matchup that much because they dump their hand so quickly. The real place it hurts is vs. Lantern and Ironworks combo. Stroke vs. Rejection is interesting vs. Eldrazi Tron because Stroke dodges Chalice, which is really nice, but of course cheaper is often better, and Rejection can counter Chalice, Relic, etc. In addition to what finalnub mentioned, Stroke also helps vs. Amulet and generic big mana decks (GR Ponza, for example).
Back to the Valakut matchup. This is another matchup where Mana Leak really shines. My build feels very favorable vs. them (with Strokes instead of Rejections in the SB, and Leaks instead of K Commands MD).
You play with Mana Leak instead of K. Commands ? You think It's worth ? I was wondering on putting some Mana Leaks, but is hard to cut something from the stock list =/
Leaks are good vs. most combo decks and big mana decks, medium in the pseudo-mirror though Leaking a planeswalker or a Snapcaster is very good, a little better in other midrangey matchups, good vs burn, and poor vs other fast aggro, dredge, control, and some other spots. Edit: and decent vs. GY hate that isn't turn 0 leyline.
Or if I'm going to put it in the sideboard I think I'd cut one Last Hope for her. Not sure though honestly (easy answer would be battle rage but I'm partial to that card that's won me games I had no business of winning, and helps against a bunch of decks that we struggle against).
2 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Vision
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Street Wraith
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Temur Battle Rage
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Oh, duh... Wasn't thinking about Verdict even though that's pretty obvious. Crucible is a good point as well. Thanks!
I do get your affinity for leak and I've tried it over IoK for a bit, and was iffy on them. 2 mana investment felt like too much a lot of the times and I did miss the praoctivity of a turn 1 discard.
Do you make other changes from the stock list when you are using leaks, like Rejection over Disdainful Stroke for example?
My SB is constantly in flux because I'm trying new things, but I pretty much always have Stroke over Rejection. Occasionally, but rarely, both!
Do you have some good Izzet Staticaster stories to share?
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I won't be removing it from the sideboard anytime soon.
Lets assume we got only two sideboard slots left and want to dedicate those to recurring creature removal. The sideboard has 2 Anger of the Gods already and we don't want to go overboard against small creature decks. So, it would likely be either:
1) 1x Liliana the Last Hope, 1x Izzet Staticaster
2) 2x Liliana the Last Hope
What would you prefer and why?
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