Hi need some opinions
The last time i played this deck i got to draw a lot of lands
What do you guys think of bringing tireless tracker
To get some value out of them
It can be good in some kind of Control matchup but I don't usually side F Mages in when I'm playing against control decks. K command and Lilianas are our 3 drops and they're definitely good against control decks and as a deck with 18 lands, I don't think I would play too many 3 drops. So I wouldn't side in F mages for control matchups
I started playing Magic about 4 months ago. Jund DS was my first deck. I switched to Grixis DS and started playing Burn a bit, but I still like the deck a lot. I took it up again with a few minor modifications for a qualifier today. I won the tournament (17 people only, but hey, still won a bye for the MKM series).
Here is how I did:
1. Burn - 2:1
Collective Brutality, Goyf, Shadow and Temur Battle Rage as MVPs (as to be expected). The Burn matchup is one of the reasons I like the Jund version over the Grixis version.
2. Affinity - 2:0
I knew there would be some affinity players, so my sideboard was well prepared with Kataki, Ancient Grudges, Lingering souls etc. The Affinity matchup is one of the major reasons I like the Jund version.
3. Grixis Shadow - 1:2
My only loss today. Hard matchup as expected. However I would have won if I did not make a mistake in the last turn. I played Hazoret and 2 shadows the same turn. Attacked into one Gurmag Angler with the hasty Hazoret. He had two removal spells ans swung for the win.
4. Burn - 2:0
Burn again. Pretty easy this time, the Burn player was not experienced with the DS matchup. Had 3 Shadows out in the second game in turn 3. He played Shrine of Burning rage so I boarded in grudges too.
5. Eldrazi Tron - ID (2:0)
He offered the draw to be sure we both make top 8. I accepted. We played it out just for fun and I crushed him. One game I won turn 3! Turn 1 Death's Shadow (3x cycle, Fetch Shock), Turn 2 second Shadow, Turn 3 KC his only blocker and swing for the win. First turn 3 kill for me.
--- Top 8 ---
6. Grixis Shadow - 2:1
Very close as to be expected. Same guy I played before. This time I won because of a mistake he made. Ranger was my best card here.
7. Affinity - 2:1
Same guy I played before. Game two he had plating out really early, I didn't draw any artifact removal. Game 3 Kataki, Goyfs and enough removal sealed the deal.
8. Finals: Eldrazi Tron - 2:0
I was just too fast for him. Happy to not see any chalices. First game two Thoughtseizes, a Shadow and a Battle Rage where enough to seal the deal. Second game he had a wormcoil engine out, but two Goyfs, a Shadow and a Kolaghan's Command where enough.
Overall I went 8-6-1-0
I think the matchup for Affinity, Burn and Eldrazi Tron is better compared to the Grixis version, the Grixis mirror is hard though.
I am very happy how this went and apparently I anticipated the meta right.
Do we still feel white is the better splash over blue? Seeing the top tournament results things like stubborn denial and ceremonious rejection seem really appealing. We are basically losing points in the grixis shadow matchup and black green/x. Stubborn denial is about equal with souls vs control decks. We also are way more clunky with the white cards postboard
I think that white or blue splash is still heavily dependent on your meta.I'm still on blue. My meta normally has a lot of CoCo/Company, storm, 8Rack, and one GDS, with me being the only other midrange deck. Ranger/Souls would help with 8Rack and GDS I'm sure but I've found Stubborn Denial to be better all around for me. Being able to counter a CoCo or Smallpox just makes such an impact and lets me to continue getting damage in. But I need to end a lot of my games quick rather than grind it out. So Ranger/Souls just feels irrelevant, at least for me. So your mileage may vary, but I'm still on the blue splash.
Yeah that's what i was saying, we are losing points in the grindy matchups with blue but i'm not certain we even need the grindy matchup stuff. The spell based combo decks and eldrazi tron is so popular, lingering souls doesn't do anything. I'm not sure how the grixis matchup goes, it's probably fairly close right? Maybe a slight underdog.
I've been testing both online, often i just beat abzan or grixis shadow without lingering souls. It happens fairly often when playing white splash where i wish i had stubborn denial
A few pages back there were a couple posts on Rancor vs. TBR--curious if anyone has tested this more? I'm kind of into the idea given the current meta.
Also curious the current thoughts on Hazoret. I see a lot of posts running the card, but I feel like I'm leaning more towards a 3rd LotV or Maelstrom Pulse. What do you guys think?
Have a PPTQ this weekend and I thought I'd be able to get more testing in, but life has kinda ruined that. I only have a few leagues of testing with these cards and not enough data to form a conclusion...
I like her too. Great in the Grixis Mirror.
I also thought about running a 3rd Lily. Both in the side though. I feel Hazoret is too slow a lot of times and only good in the side.
Do you run Hazoret and 3 old Lilys main? What do you cut for it?
I am thinking about cutting the Souls completely in the SB.
About Hazoret:
So if you have two creatures on the battlefield, like one Hazoret and one Death's Shadow, and so your opponent will only have to remove one of them (the Death's Shadow) and can just ignore your other one, which is rendered useless. That looks like a trap in a removal heavy matchup. Our biggest weakness is the grindy, removal heavy matchups, so this card just makes our problems worse. And indestructible doesn't work against another problem matchup: Living End. I can see Hazoret in swarm decks, but not this one.
About Hazoret:
So if you have two creatures on the battlefield, like one Hazoret and one Death's Shadow, and so your opponent will only have to remove one of them (the Death's Shadow) and can just ignore your other one, which is rendered useless.
About Hazoret:
So if you have two creatures on the battlefield, like one Hazoret and one Death's Shadow, and so your opponent will only have to remove one of them (the Death's Shadow) and can just ignore your other one, which is rendered useless.
Anyone checked Lantto's 7-1 MOCS list today? Splashing both white and blue and seems pretty sweet. I might just switch to this version and have some tests
How do we beat land destruction strategies? Like ponza or pox based decks. Even spreading seas seems can hose us, but not as bad as land destruction heavy decks..
Hey guys, update on PPTQs. Took 7th in one and 3rd in the other. Unfortunate, but still feel like the deck is fine in the meta. Of note, my losses were to Grixis DS, Abzan Mid, Lantern, and Titanshift. Lantern and Titanshift were very close games--lost to the right topdeck with lethal (Lantern)/Lili ult (Shift) on board.
That said, I think I am going to be moving to Lantto's build. I really struggle with cutting Tarfire as I feel as though my win rate has suffered every time I go below 2, but I do like the build overall (specifically no longer needing Fulminator for big mana). Not entirely sure there's not a better answer to the grind-package than the white splash...I feel like that's the other weakness of the deck.
Oh, and I played a couple unconventional SB cards that I've been testing for a while--Jund Charm and Blessed Alliance--both were and have been great.
Going to a few PPTQ's the next few week and I've been really looking at this deck or Abzan midrange..
I really like Hazoret but I also feel I could use a second Tarfire.. And then there is the LLanto special, he is a real expert with this deck so I could be tempted to give it a try..
Do you guys still play a basic forest? It sucks to draw it sometimes but in matches where life total matters (burn,affinity) it is so handy to have..
I really think Hazoret should only be in the side. Too expensivw to run it main.
I still like the Forest. Great against Burn, Path and Blood Moon.
Hi everybody! A friend of mine plays a similar version of this deck (He runs GRB Death Shadow) and he's looking for help to improve his deck and collect feedback about it.
This is his list:
Hi everybody! A friend of mine plays a similar version of this deck (He runs GRB Death Shadow) and he's looking for help to improve his deck and collect feedback about it.
This is his list:
The last time i played this deck i got to draw a lot of lands
What do you guys think of bringing tireless tracker
To get some value out of them
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
CREATURES (12):
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
3 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Tarfire
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Terminate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
OTHER SPELLS (7):
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Fatal Push
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
Here is how I did:
1. Burn - 2:1
Collective Brutality, Goyf, Shadow and Temur Battle Rage as MVPs (as to be expected). The Burn matchup is one of the reasons I like the Jund version over the Grixis version.
2. Affinity - 2:0
I knew there would be some affinity players, so my sideboard was well prepared with Kataki, Ancient Grudges, Lingering souls etc. The Affinity matchup is one of the major reasons I like the Jund version.
3. Grixis Shadow - 1:2
My only loss today. Hard matchup as expected. However I would have won if I did not make a mistake in the last turn. I played Hazoret and 2 shadows the same turn. Attacked into one Gurmag Angler with the hasty Hazoret. He had two removal spells ans swung for the win.
4. Burn - 2:0
Burn again. Pretty easy this time, the Burn player was not experienced with the DS matchup. Had 3 Shadows out in the second game in turn 3. He played Shrine of Burning rage so I boarded in grudges too.
5. Eldrazi Tron - ID (2:0)
He offered the draw to be sure we both make top 8. I accepted. We played it out just for fun and I crushed him. One game I won turn 3! Turn 1 Death's Shadow (3x cycle, Fetch Shock), Turn 2 second Shadow, Turn 3 KC his only blocker and swing for the win. First turn 3 kill for me.
--- Top 8 ---
6. Grixis Shadow - 2:1
Very close as to be expected. Same guy I played before. This time I won because of a mistake he made. Ranger was my best card here.
7. Affinity - 2:1
Same guy I played before. Game two he had plating out really early, I didn't draw any artifact removal. Game 3 Kataki, Goyfs and enough removal sealed the deal.
8. Finals: Eldrazi Tron - 2:0
I was just too fast for him. Happy to not see any chalices. First game two Thoughtseizes, a Shadow and a Battle Rage where enough to seal the deal. Second game he had a wormcoil engine out, but two Goyfs, a Shadow and a Kolaghan's Command where enough.
Overall I went 8-6-1-0
I think the matchup for Affinity, Burn and Eldrazi Tron is better compared to the Grixis version, the Grixis mirror is hard though.
I am very happy how this went and apparently I anticipated the meta right.
I've been testing both online, often i just beat abzan or grixis shadow without lingering souls. It happens fairly often when playing white splash where i wish i had stubborn denial
Also curious the current thoughts on Hazoret. I see a lot of posts running the card, but I feel like I'm leaning more towards a 3rd LotV or Maelstrom Pulse. What do you guys think?
Have a PPTQ this weekend and I thought I'd be able to get more testing in, but life has kinda ruined that. I only have a few leagues of testing with these cards and not enough data to form a conclusion...
Thanks all!
I also thought about running a 3rd Lily. Both in the side though. I feel Hazoret is too slow a lot of times and only good in the side.
Do you run Hazoret and 3 old Lilys main? What do you cut for it?
I am thinking about cutting the Souls completely in the SB.
Differences to mine:
Main:
-1 Hazoret. +1 Kolaghan's Command
-1 Abrupt Decay +1 Tarfire
-1 Liliana of the Veil +1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Side:
-1 Surgical +1 Cage
-1 Souls +1 Hazoret
2 Grudges, no Fulminators, 1 Push, only 2 Collectives, 1 Ethersworn Canonist
I love Hazoret but think it is too slow for the main.
Also think Tarfire is great against Affinity and Hatebears, Merfolk etc.
What are your thoughts about Ethersworn Canonist?
About Hazoret:So if you have two creatures on the battlefield, like one Hazoret and one Death's Shadow, and so your opponent will only have to remove one of them (the Death's Shadow) and can just ignore your other one, which is rendered useless. That looks like a trap in a removal heavy matchup. Our biggest weakness is the grindy, removal heavy matchups, so this card just makes our problems worse. And indestructible doesn't work against another problem matchup: Living End. I can see Hazoret in swarm decks, but not this one.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
You seem to confuse Hazoret with Rhonas.
Yeah, you're right, I mixed them up lol
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
That said, I think I am going to be moving to Lantto's build. I really struggle with cutting Tarfire as I feel as though my win rate has suffered every time I go below 2, but I do like the build overall (specifically no longer needing Fulminator for big mana). Not entirely sure there's not a better answer to the grind-package than the white splash...I feel like that's the other weakness of the deck.
Oh, and I played a couple unconventional SB cards that I've been testing for a while--Jund Charm and Blessed Alliance--both were and have been great.
Cheers!
I really think Hazoret should only be in the side. Too expensivw to run it main.
I still like the Forest. Great against Burn, Path and Blood Moon.
This is his list:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Death's Shadow
4 Fatal Push
1 Forest
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Grim Flayer
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
4 Street Wraith
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Swamp
3 Tarfire
1 Temur Battle Rage
3 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Vines of Vastwood
3 Wooded Foothills
Thanks to anyone will help!
P.S. I apologize for my bad english...
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
Tarmogoyf is missing. This is not an option but a must have. 4 Goyfs, no discussion. If you don't want to play Goyf, don't play the Jund version.
Also I prefer Mishra's Bauble over this Bauble.