Yup, that looks like how I sideboarded against Jund. I just drew poorly both games. I played against another Jund player last week and it was nothing like that.
He played a mainboard Bitter-Blossom so his deck is obviously geared towards grindy decks.
hi guys planning to convert jund to this shadow deck,is it worth the try?thanks
For sure! Usually you are not missing much, the only expensive card you would have to buy are those Baubles, but other than that its quite easy to convert, I would try it.
As for the Jund matchup I would sideboard a bit different, like this:
+3 Lingering Souls
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Terminate
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Painful Truths
-3 Thoughtseize
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Tarfire
I prefer to board out IoK over Thoughtseize against Jund because they have some burn and can kill you if your low enough and more important because they have few spells with cmc over 3 that you care about (this is basically consensus of Lantto from his deck guide and I agree with it).
Interesting actually, I can see why TS might be better to cut. This applies to the old days of Jund running Bolts. As some of us know, Jund might shift playing more Fatal Pushes which would make TS more valueable to catch hard to beat threats like Chandra, Torch of Definance, which keeps poping up in Jund lately. But its though to say if that would make a drastic difference.
Regarding traditional Jund, TS seems better to cut, I can agree with that.
Past Sunday i play a small event (30 players) and got 3-2-0 and tenth place with DSJ. Lost for a mana screw against Abzan and a top Karn turn 3 against TRON.
Overall the deck run well.
Round 1, ripped affinity apart. Granted, this affinity player is very bad.
1-0
Round 2, wrecked Breaking and entering combo
Game 1, get the hand hate and beats going too fast for him.
Game 2, He rips my hand apart, but I get him to 12 while I'm at 14. He takes my 6/7 goof and hits me with a griselbrand. I go to 1, he draws 7 and I crack back with a temur battlerage for lethal.
2-0
Round 3 Ad Nauseum
I keep a land heavy hand with hand rip, I know, bad idea. I take his unlife and lightning storm. Feeling pretty confident, but then I flood and end up with all of my lands in play and lose to the maniac draw.
Game 2, I get it all, hand hate and beats take him to 0 in a few turns.
Game 3, turn 0 turns off most of my hand and I don't hit dudes to kill him in time.
2-1.
Round 4, I play Jeskai Kiki control
Game 1, Hand rip and tripple goyf beats end it fast.
Game 2, Elsepeth stabilizes and it comes close, but he wins
Game 3, super close, but he gets my threats off the board and gets me to snap bolt range.
2-2
Nothing was a blow out and I still love the deck. I am going to give the white splash another go though as both matches would have been a lot better with it.
@Mcpatches these matchup all could have used the white splash really well. You have ethersworn canonist for the combo matchups (although breaking entering combos wont work in the future anymore) and Lingering souls for the attrition based matchups. I would give it a try!
On a general note, startet writing for a primer two days ago and its pretty much finished up to this point. Worked pretty hard to get it done asap. Just some minor tweaks have to be done which I will work on today. After all it should look polished and all nice
Hey, just thought I'd drop my 4 color list here for some critique since there isn't really a thread for this exact deck. It's basically trying to mix the advantages of Grixis Shadow with the advantages of Jund shadow. Snapcaster Mage and Traverse the Ulvenwald in the same deck with thought scour helping to enable them both offers the deck even more toolbox versatility coupled with the same brutal efficiency Death's Shadow is known for.
Keeping Green in the Grixis shell lets me go down to 1 delve threat, replacing the rest with a set of tarmogoyfs that keep our graveyard stocked for turned on Traverses and more flashback options with Snapcaster Mage. The single Tasigur is still a useful inclusion to avoid losing to Surgical Extraction, Snapcaster Surgical Extraction grabbing all our threats, as well as being a threat that can't be fatal pushed.
The downsides to this list are obvious, a less stable mana base (though not as unstable as you'd think) forces us up to 19 lands to fit in all the relevant shocklands with two basics. We also have a slightly worse burn/8 whack matchup as we have less fine control over our life total due to needing to fetch aggressively simply to cast all of our spells. Sure, we do that most of the time anyway, but with burn you want to very carefully manipulate your life total to allow yourself to battle rage them out before they can kill you, mitigating their kill potential with discard spells and in this list stubborn denial. Depending on their hand and my own sometimes I simply don't have the fine control necessary as often as the lists that are much more three color than four. We also miss out on any lilianas mostly due to a lack of room and due to double black not always being a given here.
Let me know what you think of my greedy list, which has top 8'd my last two fnms, as well as a GPT and a Modern Monday at my LGS.
So there's a list I saw that was kind of interesting. It ran K command in the sb and a 2/2 split of both Lili's. I'm not sure how good it is to be honest as it was one of the team unified decks.
Reid Duke posted an article on CF about his Shadow list in San Antonio. He claims he would have played the list in a solo GP. I think it's a bad list and he's wrong, but that's his opinion; he's a world class player.
I think I'm going to stop taking Reid Duke's deck building articles pertaining to modern GBx seriously though, it's coming off as someone more interested in standard and limited and just writing fluff articles when asked to about modern. Reid Duke's old articles on Jund are probably the best primers for anyone new to modern Jund---but his opinions have been odd lately. First he makes an Abzan deck with no paths and 3x lingering souls, and now a really sub-par Shadow deck without red and 4x LOTV's. I'm pretty sure he would have bombed in the tournament if it hadn't been team-based.
I wouldn't take too many of these lists and articles seriously, but if you have mtgo you're always free to test if it has legs.
I'm actually pretty intrigued by the list Reid played. I've thought for a while that Abzan might end up being the "best" B/G/x Death's Shadow deck because of how poor the red cards are in the mirror. I also love the idea of the main deck being pure B/G, and I think that Grim Flayer and Street Wraith have some nice synergy. There was someone at my shop on Monday night playing Reid's list, I was chatting with him at the end of the night (he'd gone 4-0) and he said that it felt like a strictly better deck than the Jund version. I think that the new Gideon could also be interesting in an Abzan list.
Aside from that, I like Reid's inclusion of a single Scavenging Ooze in the sideboard. I've been finding myself missing the Ooze lately, so I'm going to give it a shot instead of one of my two Surgical Extractions.
The DS Jund lists are practically B/G in the main already, typically only running 0-1 Rampager, 1-3 Tarfire, 1-2 Battle Rage, and 2-3 K-Command. That's 4-9 cards total, and most decks don't run more than 6. Because of the construction of the mana base, it can be awkward to have to fetch a red source turn 1-2, and you're usually not casting more than a single red card in a given game. Out of those 6 cards, Battle-Rage is the most unique and difficult to replace, but in the pure B/G list you have more room for additional copies of Liliana, Collective Brutality, or even Maelstrom Pulse, which are still fine against ramp/combo. I'm not saying the pure B/G mainboard is strictly better, but I can definitely see how Reid arrived at that decision, and it lines up well with my own personal preferences. When you consider that the only red card in most DS Jund sideboards is Ancient Grudge, it really starts to seem like we're only playing red for Temur Battle-Rage, and while the card is good I don't think it's that good.
Hey, just thought I'd drop my 4 color list here for some critique since there isn't really a thread for this exact deck. It's basically trying to mix the advantages of Grixis Shadow with the advantages of Jund shadow. Snapcaster Mage and Traverse the Ulvenwald in the same deck with thought scour helping to enable them both offers the deck even more toolbox versatility coupled with the same brutal efficiency Death's Shadow is known for.
Keeping Green in the Grixis shell lets me go down to 1 delve threat, replacing the rest with a set of tarmogoyfs that keep our graveyard stocked for turned on Traverses and more flashback options with Snapcaster Mage. The single Tasigur is still a useful inclusion to avoid losing to Surgical Extraction, Snapcaster Surgical Extraction grabbing all our threats, as well as being a threat that can't be fatal pushed.
The downsides to this list are obvious, a less stable mana base (though not as unstable as you'd think) forces us up to 19 lands to fit in all the relevant shocklands with two basics. We also have a slightly worse burn/8 whack matchup as we have less fine control over our life total due to needing to fetch aggressively simply to cast all of our spells. Sure, we do that most of the time anyway, but with burn you want to very carefully manipulate your life total to allow yourself to battle rage them out before they can kill you, mitigating their kill potential with discard spells and in this list stubborn denial. Depending on their hand and my own sometimes I simply don't have the fine control necessary as often as the lists that are much more three color than four. We also miss out on any lilianas mostly due to a lack of room and due to double black not always being a given here.
Let me know what you think of my greedy list, which has top 8'd my last two fnms, as well as a GPT and a Modern Monday at my LGS.
I've been kind of flitting between Grixis and Jund Shadow as well. I've also been looking into a 4 color list similar to yours, although I still haven't tried it at FNM. Just a few comments:
I think the problem with your list is inconsistency. I don't like having 2 Bauble and 3 Street Wraith. Those cards are what give DS decks such powerful consistency and I feel like those should be the last to be shaved. I also don't think that Tasigur is necessary, given that Goyf is almost always bigger in DSJ. The MD Terminate is kind of sketchy too but that could be a meta call. I'm also not sure about committing 4 slots to Thought Scour. It has some great synergy with Snapcaster but I'd rather see a 4th Traverse, 2nd K-Command, Lili, over them.
In my mind, an ideal list would be something like a DSJ splashing Blue purely for Snapcaster. Snapcaster really amps up the grind level by letting you recast all the extremely cheap powerful removal/discard/Traverse spells. The real question is whether we'd rather just have Lili and white SB cards. Blue doesn't really add anything in the sideboard- I'd rather have Lili over Staticaster most of the time and I honestly can't think of anything else useful. On the other hand, White enables you to tutor for Ranger of Eos and silver bullet cards like Canonist/Kataki as well as providing Lingering Souls for grind power.
In the white splash, what's better K Return or Kataki? I feel like they take similar slots against affinity and the sb is tight because of the souls and ranger.
The DS Jund lists are practically B/G in the main already, typically only running 0-1 Rampager, 1-3 Tarfire, 1-2 Battle Rage, and 2-3 K-Command. That's 4-9 cards total, and most decks don't run more than 6. Because of the construction of the mana base, it can be awkward to have to fetch a red source turn 1-2, and you're usually not casting more than a single red card in a given game. Out of those 6 cards, Battle-Rage is the most unique and difficult to replace, but in the pure B/G list you have more room for additional copies of Liliana, Collective Brutality, or even Maelstrom Pulse, which are still fine against ramp/combo. I'm not saying the pure B/G mainboard is strictly better, but I can definitely see how Reid arrived at that decision, and it lines up well with my own personal preferences. When you consider that the only red card in most DS Jund sideboards is Ancient Grudge, it really starts to seem like we're only playing red for Temur Battle-Rage, and while the card is good I don't think it's that good.
You know, more or less that exact debate was held a while ago whether to play the white splash or straight jund. There was some time people shortly considered the regular jund to be better because it was successful shortly after GP Vancouver and it being more streamlined. Well, I guess this didn't last long.
I think the same applies to here basically.
And also, although reid said otherwise, I really think the only reason those abzan lists popped up was due to the tournament being unified modern.
The interesting thing to watch will be regular tournaments now, there you will see which version will be most popular. And my bets are still on jund with the white splash.
I can say that by playing the deck quite a bit now, the red is really good. Doesn't matter how many cards they are if they are valuable enough to play.
In the white splash, what's better K Return or Kataki? I feel like they take similar slots against affinity and the sb is tight because of the souls and ranger.
I like k return better for its other applications: Elves. This is one of the hardest matchups. I think we have enough tools to beat affinity. But k return helps for poor matchups which affinity not exactly is.
He played a mainboard Bitter-Blossom so his deck is obviously geared towards grindy decks.
He's a hilarious one of, I'd mainly keep him as a one of though.
thanks to DNC of Heroes of the Plane Studios for the coolest sig
vintage-WBdark timesBW
legacy-BGRJund-51/60BGR
RBBob Sligh 48/60BR
GRone land belcherRG
URBTES-54/60URB
Fun deck-BBBBKobolds stormBBBB
For sure! Usually you are not missing much, the only expensive card you would have to buy are those Baubles, but other than that its quite easy to convert, I would try it.
And yes, the burn is real, my opponent hit me with huntmaster and the token, pinged me for another 2 and then played two bolts in one turn.
Thoughtseize is better for Junk where you want to snag those Gideons and whatnot away
Am on it!
Interesting actually, I can see why TS might be better to cut. This applies to the old days of Jund running Bolts. As some of us know, Jund might shift playing more Fatal Pushes which would make TS more valueable to catch hard to beat threats like Chandra, Torch of Definance, which keeps poping up in Jund lately. But its though to say if that would make a drastic difference.
Regarding traditional Jund, TS seems better to cut, I can agree with that.
Overall the deck run well.
Round 1, ripped affinity apart. Granted, this affinity player is very bad.
1-0
Round 2, wrecked Breaking and entering combo
Game 1, get the hand hate and beats going too fast for him.
Game 2, He rips my hand apart, but I get him to 12 while I'm at 14. He takes my 6/7 goof and hits me with a griselbrand. I go to 1, he draws 7 and I crack back with a temur battlerage for lethal.
2-0
Round 3 Ad Nauseum
I keep a land heavy hand with hand rip, I know, bad idea. I take his unlife and lightning storm. Feeling pretty confident, but then I flood and end up with all of my lands in play and lose to the maniac draw.
Game 2, I get it all, hand hate and beats take him to 0 in a few turns.
Game 3, turn 0 turns off most of my hand and I don't hit dudes to kill him in time.
2-1.
Round 4, I play Jeskai Kiki control
Game 1, Hand rip and tripple goyf beats end it fast.
Game 2, Elsepeth stabilizes and it comes close, but he wins
Game 3, super close, but he gets my threats off the board and gets me to snap bolt range.
2-2
Nothing was a blow out and I still love the deck. I am going to give the white splash another go though as both matches would have been a lot better with it.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
On a general note, startet writing for a primer two days ago and its pretty much finished up to this point. Worked pretty hard to get it done asap. Just some minor tweaks have to be done which I will work on today. After all it should look polished and all nice
Keeping Green in the Grixis shell lets me go down to 1 delve threat, replacing the rest with a set of tarmogoyfs that keep our graveyard stocked for turned on Traverses and more flashback options with Snapcaster Mage. The single Tasigur is still a useful inclusion to avoid losing to Surgical Extraction, Snapcaster Surgical Extraction grabbing all our threats, as well as being a threat that can't be fatal pushed.
The downsides to this list are obvious, a less stable mana base (though not as unstable as you'd think) forces us up to 19 lands to fit in all the relevant shocklands with two basics. We also have a slightly worse burn/8 whack matchup as we have less fine control over our life total due to needing to fetch aggressively simply to cast all of our spells. Sure, we do that most of the time anyway, but with burn you want to very carefully manipulate your life total to allow yourself to battle rage them out before they can kill you, mitigating their kill potential with discard spells and in this list stubborn denial. Depending on their hand and my own sometimes I simply don't have the fine control necessary as often as the lists that are much more three color than four. We also miss out on any lilianas mostly due to a lack of room and due to double black not always being a given here.
Let me know what you think of my greedy list, which has top 8'd my last two fnms, as well as a GPT and a Modern Monday at my LGS.
2 Mishra's Bauble
15 Creature
4 Death's Shadow
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
15 Instant
3 Fatal Push
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Stubborn Denial
3 Tarfire
1 Temur Battle Rage
1 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
4 Wooded Foothills
9 Sorcery
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Terminate
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I think I'm going to stop taking Reid Duke's deck building articles pertaining to modern GBx seriously though, it's coming off as someone more interested in standard and limited and just writing fluff articles when asked to about modern. Reid Duke's old articles on Jund are probably the best primers for anyone new to modern Jund---but his opinions have been odd lately. First he makes an Abzan deck with no paths and 3x lingering souls, and now a really sub-par Shadow deck without red and 4x LOTV's. I'm pretty sure he would have bombed in the tournament if it hadn't been team-based.
I wouldn't take too many of these lists and articles seriously, but if you have mtgo you're always free to test if it has legs.
Aside from that, I like Reid's inclusion of a single Scavenging Ooze in the sideboard. I've been finding myself missing the Ooze lately, so I'm going to give it a shot instead of one of my two Surgical Extractions.
Edit- Mike Sigrist just put up an article on Channel Fireball that also talks about DS Abzan: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/dem-boyz-do-san-antonio/.
I've been kind of flitting between Grixis and Jund Shadow as well. I've also been looking into a 4 color list similar to yours, although I still haven't tried it at FNM. Just a few comments:
I think the problem with your list is inconsistency. I don't like having 2 Bauble and 3 Street Wraith. Those cards are what give DS decks such powerful consistency and I feel like those should be the last to be shaved. I also don't think that Tasigur is necessary, given that Goyf is almost always bigger in DSJ. The MD Terminate is kind of sketchy too but that could be a meta call. I'm also not sure about committing 4 slots to Thought Scour. It has some great synergy with Snapcaster but I'd rather see a 4th Traverse, 2nd K-Command, Lili, over them.
In my mind, an ideal list would be something like a DSJ splashing Blue purely for Snapcaster. Snapcaster really amps up the grind level by letting you recast all the extremely cheap powerful removal/discard/Traverse spells. The real question is whether we'd rather just have Lili and white SB cards. Blue doesn't really add anything in the sideboard- I'd rather have Lili over Staticaster most of the time and I honestly can't think of anything else useful. On the other hand, White enables you to tutor for Ranger of Eos and silver bullet cards like Canonist/Kataki as well as providing Lingering Souls for grind power.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
You know, more or less that exact debate was held a while ago whether to play the white splash or straight jund. There was some time people shortly considered the regular jund to be better because it was successful shortly after GP Vancouver and it being more streamlined. Well, I guess this didn't last long.
I think the same applies to here basically.
And also, although reid said otherwise, I really think the only reason those abzan lists popped up was due to the tournament being unified modern.
The interesting thing to watch will be regular tournaments now, there you will see which version will be most popular. And my bets are still on jund with the white splash.
I can say that by playing the deck quite a bit now, the red is really good. Doesn't matter how many cards they are if they are valuable enough to play.
I like k return better for its other applications: Elves. This is one of the hardest matchups. I think we have enough tools to beat affinity. But k return helps for poor matchups which affinity not exactly is.