I think I'm going to play Lanttos list tonight (Although I'm keeping 2 tarfires in). I think he could be onto something with cutting the forest. I think a lot of Shadow players are going back to lingering souls, the meta adjusted quickly and they need the Souls/Ranger to keep the grind up.
I think I'm going to play Lanttos list tonight (Although I'm keeping 2 tarfires in). I think he could be onto something with cutting the forest. I think a lot of Shadow players are going back to lingering souls, the meta adjusted quickly and they need the Souls/Ranger to keep the grind up.
I am testing this atm, and it performs great so far:
I'll see how my night goes. That sideboard plan that Lanto put out will hopefully help me, I was sideboarding wrong in these grind heavy matchups, I feel. It's making more sense to do what he's suggested. Like, with Jund and Junk I generally know the deck and the formats decks well enough on what to usually side out and in, still figuring it out with Shadow, since it's easy to dilute the deck, or clunk it up with too much top heavy things
Flyer, aren't you worried not playing at least 1x ancient grudge in the list? I'd love to fit in a spell bomb, but I'm not sure I'd sacrifice Grudge for it
Two Abrupt Decays feel right, there's a lot of times I wished I saw just 1x copy instead of a tarfire.
I still think LOTV may be better than Hope, but I'm going to try it tonight and see how it goes.
I'm playing the same list as FlyingDelver except 1 Ethersworn Canonist and Maelstrom Pulse with 1 Ancient Grudge and Terminate instead and works great so far.
I like 2 Tarfires and I think one is too little because we need delirium and making Goyf bigger also helps. I don't think we need more than 2 though. Despite the fact that I like it as a card I don't miss Ghor-Clan Rampager. It's fine card but I don't think it's needed. One thing that I found is that LtLH works surprisingly well and I'm glad that decided to gave her a try in the md although I wasn't super excited about her as a md card initially.
Yeah I agree, 2 Tarfires seem good by now. Ethersworn is probably more of a meta call, but thats the great thing when you run 4 colours, you can adjust those little cards. Oh cutting Ghor Clan was really a good decision, I also like the extra Lili in there as well.
I realized that some lists play a Terminate in the SB, but I chose not to, since Maelstrom Pulse at least kills basically everything Terminate can, expect it can do more. I think having more outs to different Leylines, 4+ CMC permants in general (especially planeswalkers), token armies and extra removal for annoying Artifacts/Enchantments (Bridge, Chalice, RIP). Terminate is ofc way more efficient and has the benefit of being able to kill manlands too. Its surely a question of preference, but I personally like to have a card which can potentially answer every permanent on the board (except for manlands, but for them I think Fatal Push is sufficient enough)
I'll see how my night goes. That sideboard plan that Lanto put out will hopefully help me, I was sideboarding wrong in these grind heavy matchups, I feel. It's making more sense to do what he's suggested. Like, with Jund and Junk I generally know the deck and the formats decks well enough on what to usually side out and in, still figuring it out with Shadow, since it's easy to dilute the deck, or clunk it up with too much top heavy things
Flyer, aren't you worried not playing at least 1x ancient grudge in the list? I'd love to fit in a spell bomb, but I'm not sure I'd sacrifice Grudge for it
Two Abrupt Decays feel right, there's a lot of times I wished I saw just 1x copy instead of a tarfire.
I still think LOTV may be better than Hope, but I'm going to try it tonight and see how it goes.
Sideboarding is basically not that hard if you just follow along the basic rules of sideboarding you know from playing any attrition based deck. Yeah in an open meta, I would definitely play the Grudge over the Canonist or Spellbomb. For me its basically a meta call. My meta does contain a fair amount of Combo right now, for which reason I needed to cut something, and Affinity/Lantern is not that present right now in my meta. I still have 2 Decays and Maelstrom Pulse for those matchups, if they pop up.
I am interested on how Painful Thruths will perform for you, keep us updated on that one!
I'm a little surprised vendetta doesn't see at least a slot in the sb. Most the big dudes we're worried about aren't black and it can set us up for a big crack back. I can see the downside of it getting turned off though.
I'm a little surprised vendetta doesn't see at least a slot in the sb. Most the big dudes we're worried about aren't black and it can set us up for a big crack back. I can see the downside of it getting turned off though.
It feels like you're overthinking about cards that could see play in this deck. I don't think you want to get fancy with the deck, you want it to be brutally efficient and effective against a large spectrum of decks. This is the new Jund deck for the foreseeable future
I'm a little surprised vendetta doesn't see at least a slot in the sb. Most the big dudes we're worried about aren't black and it can set us up for a big crack back. I can see the downside of it getting turned off though.
It feels like you're overthinking about cards that could see play in this deck. I don't think you want to get fancy with the deck, you want it to be brutally efficient and effective against a large spectrum of decks. This is the new Jund deck for the foreseeable future
Probably. I get excited when I start playing new decks. Look for any tech that can be good and see if it is. I'm also eager to see if any Amhonket cards will be strong enough for modern and this deck specifically.
I'd like advice to sideboard ins and outs on a few matches, if you guys don't mind
Nahiri Jeskai
Grixis Delver (regular)
WR Prison
Blue Moon Control
Nahiri:
-2 Abrupt Decay
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Tarfire
-1 Fatal Push
+3 Lingering Souls
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Terminate/Maelstrom Pulse
+2 Surgical Extraction
I leave CB back here because of Remand they usually play. It could feel bad when you use multiple modes and it gets remanded. You can cut the other 2 Pushes or probably KCommand to add the CB if you want, but I think the 2 Pushes are more important to answer Celestial Colonnade. I must say I am not sure on this though. Surgicals is for Snapcaster mostly.
I'm a little surprised vendetta doesn't see at least a slot in the sb. Most the big dudes we're worried about aren't black and it can set us up for a big crack back. I can see the downside of it getting turned off though.
I recently read that some people are moving away from the white splash in DS Jund. Any truth to this? I ordered the last few odds and ends I needed for the deck so I'm trying to decide between Jund with or without the white splash.
Speaking of possible new cards for the deck, we should definitely pay attention the the new split cards too. If they're two types, they count as both in the GY and might be better than say tarfire or architect.
I recently read that some people are moving away from the white splash in DS Jund. Any truth to this? I ordered the last few odds and ends I needed for the deck so I'm trying to decide between Jund with or without the white splash.
I would argue that overall the white splash is slightly better, but as was said, it comes down to preference and also to the meta you are playing in.
@Mcpatches thats true, the new aftermath mechanic might have something for us. Although that I mostly think those cards would be combinations of instant and sorceries, which would not quite help that much like tarfire due to it being tribal.
Speaking of possible new cards for the deck, we should definitely pay attention the the new split cards too. If they're two types, they count as both in the GY and might be better than say tarfire or architect.
Again, you're getting too excited about trying to find fun synergy cards
It won't
Tarfire is a turn 1 play
It's a tribal
It burns to the face or shocks creatures
Had a great night with the list I posted. I play in the most competitive store in philly, went 3-1, got 28 in store credit
I crushed titanshift, he kept bad hands though. Game 2 he kept a bad hand cause it had EE and I stripped it out. He immediately looked defeated.
Had a swingy game against a sultai deck that played an absurd amount of removal. He killed all 4 of my shadows, and that was after Lilliana, the Last Hope brought 3 of them bAck. I casted Street Wraith and he topdecks pulse. It was so lulzy. We topdeck and i'm at 3 life while he has a manland and a huge goyf. I topdeck Tarfire for the win. Hilarious.
I went up against Jund, got annihilated. I just didn't draw well. We played 2 games postboard for fun and I beat him handily. Wish I drew that well when it mattered. I only boarded out 3x IOK's against him, I wonder if I should board out more. The Lanto article had him board out 3 discard.
I dismantled a Grixis Delver deck, was super glad I asked Flying Delver for that matchup this afternoon, it ended up being relevant, cause I was on my phone looking it up.
Terminate was fantastic in the side, the 2 mana cost opposed to pulse's 3 helps keep my hands less clunky.
Never really played my souls, ranger or painful truths. I never really saw them.
Removing the third copy of tarfire for the 2nd copy of Abrupt Decay was FANTASTIC. It made such a huge difference, I saw the decays when they were extremely relevant.
Lilliana the Last Hope is so powerful in this deck, she's relevant since there's only 8 threats
Never really missed Ghor Clamper, I don't think he would have been a good draw at all tonight.
This deck is so fun to play, I love it.
I may play burn next week just to shut my brain off and relax though.
Had a great night with the list I posted. I play in the most competitive store in philly, went 3-1, got 28 in store credit
I crushed titanshift, he kept bad hands though. Game 2 he kept a bad hand cause it had EE and I stripped it out. He immediately looked defeated.
Had a swingy game against a sultai deck that played an absurd amount of removal. He killed all 4 of my shadows, and that was after Lilliana, the Last Hope brought 3 of them bAck. I casted Street Wraith and he topdecks pulse. It was so lulzy. We topdeck and i'm at 3 life while he has a manland and a huge goyf. I topdeck Tarfire for the win. Hilarious.
I went up against Jund, got annihilated. I just didn't draw well. We played 2 games postboard for fun and I beat him handily. Wish I drew that well when it mattered. I only boarded out 3x IOK's against him, I wonder if I should board out more. The Lanto article had him board out 3 discard.
I dismantled a Grixis Delver deck, was super glad I asked Flying Delver for that matchup this afternoon, it ended up being relevant, cause I was on my phone looking it up.
Terminate was fantastic in the side, the 2 mana cost opposed to pulse's 3 helps keep my hands less clunky.
Never really played my souls, ranger or painful truths. I never really saw them.
Removing the third copy of tarfire for the 2nd copy of Abrupt Decay was FANTASTIC. It made such a huge difference, I saw the decays when they were extremely relevant.
Lilliana the Last Hope is so powerful in this deck, she's relevant since there's only 8 threats
Never really missed Ghor Clamper, I don't think he would have been a good draw at all tonight.
This deck is so fun to play, I love it. Its a bummer you did not get to play thruths, but maybe next time.
I may play burn next week just to shut my brain off and relax though.
Glad you did well an the Tips helped!
On jund sideboarding, I would sideboard like in the guide I made, which is:
-3 IOK
-2 TBR
-2 Tarfire
+3 Lingering Souls
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Terminate
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Painful Thruths (in your case)
By this you really minimize your chances of drawing badly. I can see the benefit of keeping TBR but I wouldnt risk either getting 2-for-1ed or getting my threats removed and topdecking a temur battle rage later. So in that regard I can see why you drew badly. I would focus on individual strenght of the cards and therefor cutting the ones mentioned makes sense.
Btw, since it could be done already and don't think it will come soon I want to take the opportunity and start writing for a possible primer if nobody minds. I would structure it similar to the sideboard guide and implement it as well as getting it up to date. What you guys think?
I am testing this atm, and it performs great so far:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
Creatures [12]
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Tarfire
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Lingering Souls
2 Collective Brutality
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Fatal Push
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Godless Shrine
1x Swamp
Creatures (12)
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
3x Fatal Push
2x Tarfire
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Temur Battle Rage
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Fatal Push
1x Terminate
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
1x Painful Truths
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Lingering Souls
1x Ranger of Eos
I'll see how my night goes. That sideboard plan that Lanto put out will hopefully help me, I was sideboarding wrong in these grind heavy matchups, I feel. It's making more sense to do what he's suggested. Like, with Jund and Junk I generally know the deck and the formats decks well enough on what to usually side out and in, still figuring it out with Shadow, since it's easy to dilute the deck, or clunk it up with too much top heavy things
Flyer, aren't you worried not playing at least 1x ancient grudge in the list? I'd love to fit in a spell bomb, but I'm not sure I'd sacrifice Grudge for it
Two Abrupt Decays feel right, there's a lot of times I wished I saw just 1x copy instead of a tarfire.
I still think LOTV may be better than Hope, but I'm going to try it tonight and see how it goes.
Yeah I agree, 2 Tarfires seem good by now. Ethersworn is probably more of a meta call, but thats the great thing when you run 4 colours, you can adjust those little cards. Oh cutting Ghor Clan was really a good decision, I also like the extra Lili in there as well.
I realized that some lists play a Terminate in the SB, but I chose not to, since Maelstrom Pulse at least kills basically everything Terminate can, expect it can do more. I think having more outs to different Leylines, 4+ CMC permants in general (especially planeswalkers), token armies and extra removal for annoying Artifacts/Enchantments (Bridge, Chalice, RIP). Terminate is ofc way more efficient and has the benefit of being able to kill manlands too. Its surely a question of preference, but I personally like to have a card which can potentially answer every permanent on the board (except for manlands, but for them I think Fatal Push is sufficient enough)
I've never really tried two Hope's in the MB, so it'll be interesting to see
Sideboarding is basically not that hard if you just follow along the basic rules of sideboarding you know from playing any attrition based deck. Yeah in an open meta, I would definitely play the Grudge over the Canonist or Spellbomb. For me its basically a meta call. My meta does contain a fair amount of Combo right now, for which reason I needed to cut something, and Affinity/Lantern is not that present right now in my meta. I still have 2 Decays and Maelstrom Pulse for those matchups, if they pop up.
I am interested on how Painful Thruths will perform for you, keep us updated on that one!
Nahiri Jeskai
Grixis Delver (regular)
WR Prison
Blue Moon Control
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
It feels like you're overthinking about cards that could see play in this deck. I don't think you want to get fancy with the deck, you want it to be brutally efficient and effective against a large spectrum of decks. This is the new Jund deck for the foreseeable future
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Nahiri:
-2 Abrupt Decay
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Tarfire
-1 Fatal Push
+3 Lingering Souls
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Terminate/Maelstrom Pulse
+2 Surgical Extraction
I leave CB back here because of Remand they usually play. It could feel bad when you use multiple modes and it gets remanded. You can cut the other 2 Pushes or probably KCommand to add the CB if you want, but I think the 2 Pushes are more important to answer Celestial Colonnade. I must say I am not sure on this though. Surgicals is for Snapcaster mostly.
Grixis Delver
-2 IOK
-2 TBR
-2 Tarfire
-2 Abrupt Decay
+3 Lingering
+2 Surgicals
+1 Ranger
+1 Terminate/Pulse
+1 Fatal Push
WR Prison
-3 Push
-1 Liliana, the Last Hope (if Pulse is in SB)
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Surgical
+1 Pulse (if you have it)
Blue Moon
-3 Push
-2 Tarfire
-2 TBR
+3 Lingering
+2 Surgical
+1 Ranger
+1 Ancient Grudge
Well, we do care about: Tasigur, the golden Fang and Gurmag Angler.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I would argue that overall the white splash is slightly better, but as was said, it comes down to preference and also to the meta you are playing in.
@Mcpatches thats true, the new aftermath mechanic might have something for us. Although that I mostly think those cards would be combinations of instant and sorceries, which would not quite help that much like tarfire due to it being tribal.
Again, you're getting too excited about trying to find fun synergy cards
It won't
Tarfire is a turn 1 play
It's a tribal
It burns to the face or shocks creatures
I crushed titanshift, he kept bad hands though. Game 2 he kept a bad hand cause it had EE and I stripped it out. He immediately looked defeated.
Had a swingy game against a sultai deck that played an absurd amount of removal. He killed all 4 of my shadows, and that was after Lilliana, the Last Hope brought 3 of them bAck. I casted Street Wraith and he topdecks pulse. It was so lulzy. We topdeck and i'm at 3 life while he has a manland and a huge goyf. I topdeck Tarfire for the win. Hilarious.
I went up against Jund, got annihilated. I just didn't draw well. We played 2 games postboard for fun and I beat him handily. Wish I drew that well when it mattered. I only boarded out 3x IOK's against him, I wonder if I should board out more. The Lanto article had him board out 3 discard.
I dismantled a Grixis Delver deck, was super glad I asked Flying Delver for that matchup this afternoon, it ended up being relevant, cause I was on my phone looking it up.
Terminate was fantastic in the side, the 2 mana cost opposed to pulse's 3 helps keep my hands less clunky.
Never really played my souls, ranger or painful truths. I never really saw them.
Removing the third copy of tarfire for the 2nd copy of Abrupt Decay was FANTASTIC. It made such a huge difference, I saw the decays when they were extremely relevant.
Lilliana the Last Hope is so powerful in this deck, she's relevant since there's only 8 threats
Never really missed Ghor Clamper, I don't think he would have been a good draw at all tonight.
This deck is so fun to play, I love it.
I may play burn next week just to shut my brain off and relax though.
Glad you did well an the Tips helped!
On jund sideboarding, I would sideboard like in the guide I made, which is:
-3 IOK
-2 TBR
-2 Tarfire
+3 Lingering Souls
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Terminate
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Painful Thruths (in your case)
By this you really minimize your chances of drawing badly. I can see the benefit of keeping TBR but I wouldnt risk either getting 2-for-1ed or getting my threats removed and topdecking a temur battle rage later. So in that regard I can see why you drew badly. I would focus on individual strenght of the cards and therefor cutting the ones mentioned makes sense.
Btw, since it could be done already and don't think it will come soon I want to take the opportunity and start writing for a possible primer if nobody minds. I would structure it similar to the sideboard guide and implement it as well as getting it up to date. What you guys think?
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn