Interesting article and I get the white. I might have to try it out again. I also don't like cutting to 1 tarfire as it's good with goyfs too and I want to have delirium fast a lot of the time. I know shock is bad, but it's not that horrible and can break goyf locks.
I played a bunch of games against GR Tron recently and got my ass kicked. Eight games main deck, 20+ post board. He probably got 60% of the games both pre and post board.
I know DSJ is supposed to be able to "go under" Tron, but I just couldn't. He was able to consistently cause me to gain 1-2 life per turn off of Grove which kept me off the Shadow plan. At some point inevitability just takes over the game, because shredding his hand didn't matter as he could top deck something that shut down my Goyf(s), which was my only threat left.
Postboard allowed me to get Fulminator hijinks online, but he sided into Relic which kept Goyf at bay and continued the lifegain shenanigans off of Grove.
Am I playing this match wrong? Has anyone else struggled like this? I think if it was the GB or GW variants I'd have been ok since IoK could have stripped removal and I could get at or below 10 life without interference.
FWIW I was trying the straight Jund plan with 2 Tombs instead of a Shrine. Other variance was 2 LotV MD and 2 Last Hope side, 3 Push, 1 MD Decay and 1 Brutality side.
Why are we not running answers to Leyline of Sanctity? With 8 discard spells that seems to be too much of a risk not to run at least something. Also the decks that are likely to board it in are decks where we absolutely need our discard e.i AD Nauseum
I played a bunch of games against GR Tron recently and got my ass kicked. Eight games main deck, 20+ post board. He probably got 60% of the games both pre and post board.
I know DSJ is supposed to be able to "go under" Tron, but I just couldn't. He was able to consistently cause me to gain 1-2 life per turn off of Grove which kept me off the Shadow plan. At some point inevitability just takes over the game, because shredding his hand didn't matter as he could top deck something that shut down my Goyf(s), which was my only threat left.
Postboard allowed me to get Fulminator hijinks online, but he sided into Relic which kept Goyf at bay and continued the lifegain shenanigans off of Grove.
Am I playing this match wrong? Has anyone else struggled like this? I think if it was the GB or GW variants I'd have been ok since IoK could have stripped removal and I could get at or below 10 life without interference.
FWIW I was trying the straight Jund plan with 2 Tombs instead of a Shrine. Other variance was 2 LotV MD and 2 Last Hope side, 3 Push, 1 MD Decay and 1 Brutality side.
I guess you had bad luck, because in a vacuum, Grove doesn't seem that fast that it would be relevant enough to completely shut down Death Shadow. Its annoying, thats true, but I think we can dmg ourselfes way faster. You just have to not let the game take long, and do what you can to increase the clock. Maybe this also came down to wrongly made mulligan decisions (like keeping slow hands against Tron).
To the Abzan MU, I would definitely side out LoTV as she is very weak against opposing souls (both plus and minus ability) I dont actually know how, but if you tell me, I can post here my list which i am currently running with success (won last local tournament 5-0 and top8ed in the one of the larger local tournaments, so pretty big success so far, as before I was just trying to learn how to play the deck)
Btw, do you guys know some silver bullets for the deck except the ones which are normally played in the deck? I found out just Big Game Hunter, Valorz (who could be rly sweet) and Rec. Sage, but that's it...I am trying to get together as many silver bullet cards as possible, to have at least one flexible slot in sb to try out different ones.
For Abzan I agree with cutting LoTV, makes sense. For posting a decklist just write down the list and put the list in these brackets: [ deck ] [ / deck ]. There is also a function in the reply window, looking lika a faceup and facedown magic card in its icon.
Why are we not running answers to Leyline of Sanctity? With 8 discard spells that seems to be too much of a risk not to run at least something. Also the decks that are likely to board it in are decks where we absolutely need our discard e.i AD Nauseum
Just like McPatches said, Maelstrom Pulse is very common in the SB right now, and I think its a must have actually, due to this reason. We need some out against Leyline, PWs, Delve creatures to get rid of and Pulse gets rid of all of those. Plus, Pulse helps with Lingering Souls as this is very good against us.
For Ad Nauseam, I would always go for Land Destruction and Artifact Hate also besides discard.
So testing grim flayer has been great. Especially in the hands we have turn 2 or 3 delirium. I'm rocking 2 mb and it's made my hands a lot more keepable. I'm also really liking the noxious revival as a 1 of. It has the chance to return things people make us discard or when they nuke our dudes.
Regarding that article, I have a problems with some of the choices he's made in terms of the build:
1- 3x liliana main: while I'm coming round to the idea of maindeck liliana, the last hope (better in quite a few matchups and really great for enabling delerium) I'm really not sure about running 3. He didn't mention why this was a good idea, and I strongly suspect he got the idea from someone else (I've seen a couple of lists before) and just ran with it. I don't think it's necessarily correct? Not sure.
2- dropping down on tarfire; tarfire is consistently the most important linchpin of the deck, enabling delirium early and getting traverse online, as well as elevating goyf to shadow-status if you happen to draw that half of your deck. I can't see dropping this card below 3 unless there's a really good reason. I've struggled to hit delirium on quite a few occasions and it's saved me. Plus it wrecks affinity/infect and mana dorks, and 2 damage to face (either theirs or your own) is credible in this deck. Not many, but here it works.
3- dropping the forest; so many times I've not had delirium and I've needed to traverse for a land. In a deck that hopes to be able to grind against a wide field of modern strategies, running fewer basics is asking for trouble. 2 has allowed me to play through ghost quarters, path to exiles, fetch against blood moon, it's been highly important to my success so far. Maybe mtgo is different from paper magic but with only 1 basic I'd be losing more matches than I'd gain from making the swap.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Hey guys, regarding the article, I dont generally like his choices and decisions, even when it was the old Death Shadow Zoo, he was posting an older list, rather than the refined one.
I do disagree with him on dropping the forest. But I do think Ghor-clan is not as important
Ive been testing a heavier white splash in the deck, replacing:
* 3 tarfires to 2 Path to Exile and 1 Orzhov Charm.
* Stomping Ground changed to Temple Garden
* Ghor-clan rampager to Abrupt Decay
So far its been decently well. I do get delirium on by turn 2 or 3 as well, though obviously not as consistently.
Also after playing 500 matches you're bound to have some useful points to make, but if you've played all of those marches with a suboptimal build I'm doubting some of the claims.
It's still a useful article, but I'd suggest anyone rushing to copy that guy's list to be wary. There's some definite flaws in the claims he makes at the beginning of the article, and if those were his starting point for the deck, there are issues. It's great that he's done well with the deck, but really I can't see his list being optimal (especially in paper).
We should contact him and get him to play a more 'stock' list and see how he does. Haha
Regarding the white splash, I too am considering going back to ranger of eos after having tried the pure jund angle for a while. I fairness, I found varolz to be about on par with ranger in terms of closing out games, it's a real house. But the combination of additional useful grindy cards from lingering souls is useful. Breaking the mirror is important.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Yeah, it's pretty up in the air right now. Pretty sure there's a couple of larger modern events in april or june to help too. Not to mention a new set being spoiled.
Any tips on side boarding versus UWx control? I'm on a typical Jund splash white for souls and ranger build and it feels like I want to bring almost my entire sideboard in, which can't be right. And what do I cut? The obvious ones would be the decays, tarfires, TBR, but do I still keep the pushes for collonades even though I can bring in fulminators?
It's great that he's done well with the deck, but really I can't see his list being optimal (especially in paper).
Paper magic is indeed different from online so lists may look different here. However, like you said, he did well with this list, so this does not go well with your argument of his list being suboptimal. If its was, he would have much worse results I bet. So there has to be something to it, just simply because he did well with the list. Obviously player skill also is a factor which plays a role in this results, but if his deck decisions where ones where you loose more games than you win (like you said) along with the change, then his results would obviously have been worse.
Ultimately, like it is for regular Jund, I can definitely say, that lists will look different and will vary quite a bit from time to time and from player to player. The reason is simply, because metas are different everywhere and this is a deck which is able to adapt to that. It actually has to, in order to successful. So in that regard, I can see why you wouldn't run the changed list. However, it doesn't mean its suboptimal generally.
And I would be surprized if he had played that deck so long and didn't tested a stock list during that time. If we can talk about a stock list actually. The deck is in development, many things can be changed in that process. So it would be wrong to call a certain list a stock list already.
He seems to side out Liliana Last Hope a lot. Also in matches where Kolaghans command can help grind. He does give a good basic outline, but anyone should playtest and learn to sideboard for certain matches themselves
Siding out Street Wraith against burn is a beating. Makes the deck less consistent overall. Mana and delirium gets less consistent. I guess their Goblin Guides can help with our mana, though.
I do feel she is a sideboard card. I think the way to play burn is to side out maybe 1 or 2 wraiths only, not all. As the Death Shadow player, you just have to know how to manage your life total.
Siding out Street Wraith vs. Burn is mandatory. Its really bad against them.
For this article, generally, I like it. I am a bit surprized he doesn't shave KCommand against Bant Eldrazi. I think this card doesn't seem all that great here.
Hey guys, I'm very much interested in this deck. Budget isn't a huge concern, but...
I cannot bring myself to pay $40+ dollars for an uncommon printed in the modern card frame.
What would be a good substitute for Mishra's Bauble?
Not wanting to go pro, just thinking FNM and etc.
I thought about Nihil Spellbomb, but I don't like the idea of running 4.
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Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
The main reason? Grove of the Burnwillows.
I know DSJ is supposed to be able to "go under" Tron, but I just couldn't. He was able to consistently cause me to gain 1-2 life per turn off of Grove which kept me off the Shadow plan. At some point inevitability just takes over the game, because shredding his hand didn't matter as he could top deck something that shut down my Goyf(s), which was my only threat left.
Postboard allowed me to get Fulminator hijinks online, but he sided into Relic which kept Goyf at bay and continued the lifegain shenanigans off of Grove.
Am I playing this match wrong? Has anyone else struggled like this? I think if it was the GB or GW variants I'd have been ok since IoK could have stripped removal and I could get at or below 10 life without interference.
FWIW I was trying the straight Jund plan with 2 Tombs instead of a Shrine. Other variance was 2 LotV MD and 2 Last Hope side, 3 Push, 1 MD Decay and 1 Brutality side.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I guess you had bad luck, because in a vacuum, Grove doesn't seem that fast that it would be relevant enough to completely shut down Death Shadow. Its annoying, thats true, but I think we can dmg ourselfes way faster. You just have to not let the game take long, and do what you can to increase the clock. Maybe this also came down to wrongly made mulligan decisions (like keeping slow hands against Tron).
For Abzan I agree with cutting LoTV, makes sense. For posting a decklist just write down the list and put the list in these brackets: [ deck ] [ / deck ]. There is also a function in the reply window, looking lika a faceup and facedown magic card in its icon.
Concerning Silverbullets, there is also Ethersworn Canonist or Eidolon of Retoric. These cards are amazing vs. Combo decks.
Just like McPatches said, Maelstrom Pulse is very common in the SB right now, and I think its a must have actually, due to this reason. We need some out against Leyline, PWs, Delve creatures to get rid of and Pulse gets rid of all of those. Plus, Pulse helps with Lingering Souls as this is very good against us.
For Ad Nauseam, I would always go for Land Destruction and Artifact Hate also besides discard.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Until then I won't really play him in the deck until pro's agree on him.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
1- 3x liliana main: while I'm coming round to the idea of maindeck liliana, the last hope (better in quite a few matchups and really great for enabling delerium) I'm really not sure about running 3. He didn't mention why this was a good idea, and I strongly suspect he got the idea from someone else (I've seen a couple of lists before) and just ran with it. I don't think it's necessarily correct? Not sure.
2- dropping down on tarfire; tarfire is consistently the most important linchpin of the deck, enabling delirium early and getting traverse online, as well as elevating goyf to shadow-status if you happen to draw that half of your deck. I can't see dropping this card below 3 unless there's a really good reason. I've struggled to hit delirium on quite a few occasions and it's saved me. Plus it wrecks affinity/infect and mana dorks, and 2 damage to face (either theirs or your own) is credible in this deck. Not many, but here it works.
3- dropping the forest; so many times I've not had delirium and I've needed to traverse for a land. In a deck that hopes to be able to grind against a wide field of modern strategies, running fewer basics is asking for trouble. 2 has allowed me to play through ghost quarters, path to exiles, fetch against blood moon, it's been highly important to my success so far. Maybe mtgo is different from paper magic but with only 1 basic I'd be losing more matches than I'd gain from making the swap.
I do disagree with him on dropping the forest. But I do think Ghor-clan is not as important
Ive been testing a heavier white splash in the deck, replacing:
* 3 tarfires to 2 Path to Exile and 1 Orzhov Charm.
* Stomping Ground changed to Temple Garden
* Ghor-clan rampager to Abrupt Decay
So far its been decently well. I do get delirium on by turn 2 or 3 as well, though obviously not as consistently.
Affinity
Legacy:
GBCombo Elves
EDH:
GEzuri, Renegade Leader's Elf Ball
Cube:
180 Peasant Micro Cube
It's still a useful article, but I'd suggest anyone rushing to copy that guy's list to be wary. There's some definite flaws in the claims he makes at the beginning of the article, and if those were his starting point for the deck, there are issues. It's great that he's done well with the deck, but really I can't see his list being optimal (especially in paper).
We should contact him and get him to play a more 'stock' list and see how he does. Haha
Regarding the white splash, I too am considering going back to ranger of eos after having tried the pure jund angle for a while. I fairness, I found varolz to be about on par with ranger in terms of closing out games, it's a real house. But the combination of additional useful grindy cards from lingering souls is useful. Breaking the mirror is important.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
How do we win post-board?
Paper magic is indeed different from online so lists may look different here. However, like you said, he did well with this list, so this does not go well with your argument of his list being suboptimal. If its was, he would have much worse results I bet. So there has to be something to it, just simply because he did well with the list. Obviously player skill also is a factor which plays a role in this results, but if his deck decisions where ones where you loose more games than you win (like you said) along with the change, then his results would obviously have been worse.
Ultimately, like it is for regular Jund, I can definitely say, that lists will look different and will vary quite a bit from time to time and from player to player. The reason is simply, because metas are different everywhere and this is a deck which is able to adapt to that. It actually has to, in order to successful. So in that regard, I can see why you wouldn't run the changed list. However, it doesn't mean its suboptimal generally.
And I would be surprized if he had played that deck so long and didn't tested a stock list during that time. If we can talk about a stock list actually. The deck is in development, many things can be changed in that process. So it would be wrong to call a certain list a stock list already.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Affinity
Legacy:
GBCombo Elves
EDH:
GEzuri, Renegade Leader's Elf Ball
Cube:
180 Peasant Micro Cube
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Affinity
Legacy:
GBCombo Elves
EDH:
GEzuri, Renegade Leader's Elf Ball
Cube:
180 Peasant Micro Cube
For this article, generally, I like it. I am a bit surprized he doesn't shave KCommand against Bant Eldrazi. I think this card doesn't seem all that great here.
I cannot bring myself to pay $40+ dollars for an uncommon printed in the modern card frame.
What would be a good substitute for Mishra's Bauble?
Not wanting to go pro, just thinking FNM and etc.
I thought about Nihil Spellbomb, but I don't like the idea of running 4.