Yeah, my initial testing of a Jund version of Traverse came because I wanted to spend some time with Tarmogoyf instead of Gurmag Angler. Although, the time for that may have already passed, I've been playing against a lot more decks packing Fatal Push online lately.
I think 7 discard spells (alongside what I assume is 3 Stubs) and 2 Looting is reasonable to try. I think that both Shadow decks can benefit from 1-2 Faithless Looting.
I've been liking Trophy against Spirits post-board. Being able to hit RiP, Worship, or Moorland Haunt with the same card, in addition to their creatures, has been nice.
Yes, trophy hitting every major hate card post board is fantastic. The cost is very low after game 1.
Yup, 3 stubborns, 7 discard and 2 lootings. Due to leyline being a mandatory card the loots help a little.
What I do like about stubborn is that casting stubborn to counter something and have an instant fill the yard can sometimes help turn traverse on. Remember those feelings when you had instant removal but it was stuck in hand? It's only a sometimes thing but it still can matter.
I accidentally put 1x lotv and 2x k command main deck but I wonder if I should keep that.
K-Command in the maindeck is one of the strangest things to me. It's completely dependent on your expected meta game. Personally I feel like our KCI and affinity (including scales) match ups should be fairly good anyway.
If you wantto be prepared for KCI, extra counter spells work great and also pull double duty against burn, Tron, and Valakut. If you're liking KCMD for its affinity application, I would say straight removal wouldbe better because you can also use it against humans and spirits.
All that being said, I personally still use 1x KCmd in my sideboard.
@Spsiegel1987, can I see your 75? I realized all I’m missing from playing 4c is the 4x DS and a couple of U shocklands. I have everything else. I imagine it’ll take awhile to get the hang of, but that’s usually the fun part. I’d like to see what you’re running and if you don’t mind, an explanation of some of the particulars and personal/meta choices. I have some studying to do. I’m about to go back to the first page and read the Primer. I just woke up this morning and decided on a whim that I’d give it a whirl. Haven’t had a chance to read up on it yet.
And I noticed some straight Jund lists on Goldfish. I’m guessing 3c helps with consistency? How crucial is Stubborn Denial?
Piney, Defish may actually be the more experienced player to ask here. I can't promise my list is good. I based it off Hollman's list who won the SCG tournament.
The deck has a ton of play and it feels like a more aggressive version of Jund. There's tons of play with Mishra's Bauble, Scrying, and hands to keep. The deck is severely punishing for misplaying. You have to know when to slow down on life loss.
Meta choices? Well, the loot is nice, and playing 4x Leylines, it's nice knowing you can discard it if you draw it later. I also had a great game against a friend on Tron who played Leyline of Sanctity. Looted away my discard.
Some people like bolt instead of tarfire but I want those traverse's on and Goyf bigger. That one is personal choice and you should decide through experience.
I DO recommend splashing that blue. Stubborn denial is SO, SO Good. Like, sometimes broken good. It's a light splash. It only gets better as you play those ramp/combo decks post game.
People aren't decided on those K-Command/LOTV numbers. You could also play an extra dismember/Push/bolt there. You have to play with the numbers and decide for yourself, that spot isn't 100% a consensus. Some play none, some have no K Commands, or 1 LOTV, etc. That's a flex spot.
There aren't THAT many field of ruins around, the 4th color isn't too difficult. I do think 5C Shadow was too greedy.
The white splash isn't very good. It was primarily for Lingering Souls. Souls is bad in modern right now.
If your meta is filled with a bunch of midrange decks you're going to have a miserable time playing 4C Shadow. You don't want to see Jund players, UW Control, etc.
Outside of something like Jund, it often feels like this deck has game against a lot. For a few lands and Shadow it's worth having this, too. Just be patient with it, you may lose a lot when you start with it.
Sweet. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write that up. I appreciate it. That gives me something to build off of. And I love flex/undecided slots. I’m a brew player at heart, but I like to win (or maybe I don’t, I do love Midrange decks), and I know I can’t/won’t ever devote enough time to put in the reps and come up with the next Humans deck (every deck started as a brew, right?), so tier decks with a lot of wiggle room for personal preference and meta calls are a happy medium for me. I’m gonna put in that order. I’m stoked. Thanks again, man.
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I actually no longer think the 4th color is necessary. After a few iterations to iron out sideboard plans, I'm currently 12-3 in MTGO leagues with this 75:
The only matchup where I really missed Stubborn Denial was burn. Matchups I played against that Stubborn Denial would have been relevant in were: Grixis Goryo's Vengeance, Jeskai, Storm, Bogles, Titanshift, and Tron. I actually beat Tron in all 3 matches I played against it, the matchup seemed really hard for them. Fulminator Mage is really good at denying resources against decks like Tron, Jeskai, and Titanshift, and in general this list is just really good at interacting with the ways that other decks are trying to win right now.
We're usually on the same page---but I played regular Jund Shadow and hated it. I couldn't find a single reason to play it over 4C. I also found traverse harder to turn on when decks don't play creatures and I can't put something like Stubborn Denial in the GY.
I'm not sure I see what purpose it serves, man. The mana hasn't been an issue.
Alright, so I ordered everything I need except for the Polluted Deltas. Unfortunately the list I was looking at when I said all I was missing was the DS’s and the U Shocklands was THIS ONE that didn’t play any Deltas (and played 4x Verdants, 4x Mires, and 3x Foothills instead), I’m assuming as a budget decision. I didn’t realize it at the time.
I could order the Deltas now, but I kinda already pushed my budget limits. I bought a second Liliana, the Last Hope, the fourth Leyline of the Void (I needed that one anyway, I thought I could get by with three because the Hollow One decks were only running three back when I purchased those), and a fourth Lorwyn Thoughtseize (I only ever needed three at most for Jund. I have Theros TS’s, but there’s no way I’m running mismatched cards or even newer printings of cards in a deck I care about). Those cards, plus the DS’s and old U Shocklands, kinda maxed me out $$$wise.
So, with that said, I’m going to try both Jund DS and 4c DS, and if I find that the Wooded Foothills are just too bad in 4c, I may trade some stuff into my LGS for 4x Khans Polluted Deltas as a placeholder until I can spring for the Onslaught Deltas. Do you think the Foothills will be a big setback to my manabase? I can’t stand playing suboptimal lists.
I can’t lie, I watched some videos last night (Holy s*** Hoogland is almost unbearable to listen to sometimes) and Stubborn Denial seems really strong (and like you said, fetching for U really just forwards our plan of getting below 13 life, so there’s really not a downside). I’m motivated to play 4c based on what I saw and per your suggestion, Siegel. BUT... straight Jund Shadow would make me feel a little closer to home like I was just playing an Aggro-oriented classic Jund list. And between that familiarity, not needing Deltas, and because of DeFish’s suggestion, I’m also inclined to play that version. So I will try both, and do more research in the meantime.
I do really want to know though, so give it to me straight, how bad is Wooded Foothills in 4c? Is it going to give me a skewed impression of the deck? Here is that list again that I was initially going off of, for reference.
And I really appreciate the input, by the way. Both of y’all.
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Hoogland is---awful to listen to. I had to stop watching him when I was researching Tron. Having a grown man singing about a theme song for Tron on multiple occasions was pretty anger inducing.
You should play what makes you feel more comfortable, man. If Aggro Jund would make you feel more at home go for that. Play 4C when you feel more comfortable with it, i guess. I was just messing around on mtgo last night with regular Jund Shadow and didn't do so hot. I didn't find playing in 3 colors a big deal. Obviously if i was trying to protect my life total or Field of Ruins was everywhere I'd change my tune.
I'm mainly just jamming the shadow decks in general though.
Alright, so I ordered everything I need except for the Polluted Deltas. Unfortunately the list I was looking at when I said all I was missing was the DS’s and the U Shocklands was THIS ONE that didn’t play any Deltas (and played 4x Verdants, 4x Mires, and 3x Foothills instead), I’m assuming as a budget decision. I didn’t realize it at the time.
I could order the Deltas now, but I kinda already pushed my budget limits. I bought a second Liliana, the Last Hope, the fourth Leyline of the Void (I needed that one anyway, I thought I could get by with three because the Hollow One decks were only running three back when I purchased those), and a fourth Lorwyn Thoughtseize (I only ever needed three at most for Jund. I have Theros TS’s, but there’s no way I’m running mismatched cards or even newer printings of cards in a deck I care about). Those cards, plus the DS’s and old U Shocklands, kinda maxed me out $$$wise.
So, with that said, I’m going to try both Jund DS and 4c DS, and if I find that the Wooded Foothills are just too bad in 4c, I may trade some stuff into my LGS for 4x Khans Polluted Deltas as a placeholder until I can spring for the Onslaught Deltas. Do you think the Foothills will be a big setback to my manabase? I can’t stand playing suboptimal lists.
I can’t lie, I watched some videos last night (Holy s*** Hoogland is almost unbearable to listen to sometimes) and Stubborn Denial seems really strong (and like you said, fetching for U really just forwards our plan of getting below 13 life, so there’s really not a downside). I’m motivated to play 4c based on what I saw and per your suggestion, Siegel. BUT... straight Jund Shadow would make me feel a little closer to home like I was just playing an Aggro-oriented classic Jund list. And between that familiarity, not needing Deltas, and because of DeFish’s suggestion, I’m also inclined to play that version. So I will try both, and do more research in the meantime.
I do really want to know though, so give it to me straight, how bad is Wooded Foothills in 4c? Is it going to give me a skewed impression of the deck? Here is that list again that I was initially going off of, for reference.
And I really appreciate the input, by the way. Both of y’all.
While the choice between 4c and Jund is basically dependent on how important stubborn denial is for your expected meta game, I think that Wooded Foothills are generally ok considering a couple factors. As a die-hard 4c player myself, I find that watery grave is typically the first shock I fetch. Now of course this depends on my opening hand and what I know about the opponent so far, but consider that my only main deck blue cards are 3x Stubborn. My value for blue may be accentuated by the blue sideboard options. Burn and Tron are very popular and they are both match-ups that are easy to push to 60% or better with some sideboard tech.
Here's why I consider all 4 colors to be critical.
Blue is crucial for beating burn and KCI (counter spells), and still very good against Tron, Storm, Dredge and Primeval Titan.
Red is crucial for beating Humans and Spirits (removal, sweepers, TBR) but also helps against Affinity, Scales, KCI, and Storm.
And while BGx midrange and UWx control are near impossible to win, I feel that my counter spells are one of the few edges I have in the match ups. For reference, here's my current list
I’m glad to hear Foothills should be a passable placeholder. I’m going to run both lists for awhile. Stubby-D seems really good. I’m tired of Thoughtseizes not handling top-decked CoCos/Scapeshifts/Karns/Terminus/etc., ya know?
I do have a couple more questions:
Why no Nihil Spellbomb in the main right now? It seems very applicable for the meta, cantrips, and helps Delirium/Goyf. I haven’t seen it in any lists so I guess I’m missing something.
Why no Grim Flayer in any lists, especially straight Jund lists? The deck seems really threat-light. Makes me nervous. Sure, Rampager and Wraith can technically become threats too, but how often does that happen?
Also, something non-related, I like that Radiant Flames can hit for 4 against Thalia decks. It’s fringe but cool, and I bet it’s clutch when it happens.
We're usually on the same page---but I played regular Jund Shadow and hated it. I couldn't find a single reason to play it over 4C. I also found traverse harder to turn on when decks don't play creatures and I can't put something like Stubborn Denial in the GY.
I'm not sure I see what purpose it serves, man. The mana hasn't been an issue.
What did you play against and how did you board? I haven't really had much trouble turning on delirium with the list I posted, but I also mulligan my 7 card hands pretty aggressively. Based on what I've seen you post, though, it sounds like you are too.
Why no Nihil Spellbomb in the main right now? It seems very applicable for the meta, cantrips, and helps Delirium/Goyf. I haven’t seen it in any lists so I guess I’m missing something.
Why no Grim Flayer in any lists, especially straight Jund lists? The deck seems really threat-light. Makes me nervous. Sure, Rampager and Wraith can technically become threats too, but how often does that happen?
I think the reason you see Spellbombs in the maindeck of the bigger B/G/x decks is because they need to run them in order to beat the decks abusing the graveyard right now, while Traverse Shadow really doesn't. Your clock is so good that you can win some games without any graveyard hate at all, you really just need graveyard hate to guarantee you can win the damage race.
I would run Flayer if the shape of the meta made my creature removal worse, but as it is I would rather have the extra removal spell than the first Flayer.
Why no Nihil Spellbomb in the main right now? It seems very applicable for the meta, cantrips, and helps Delirium/Goyf. I haven’t seen it in any lists so I guess I’m missing something.
Why no Grim Flayer in any lists, especially straight Jund lists? The deck seems really threat-light. Makes me nervous. Sure, Rampager and Wraith can technically become threats too, but how often does that happen?
I think the reason you see Spellbombs in the maindeck of the bigger B/G/x decks is because they need to run them in order to beat the decks abusing the graveyard right now, while Traverse Shadow really doesn't. Your clock is so good that you can win some games without any graveyard hate at all, you really just need graveyard hate to guarantee you can win the damage race.
I would run Flayer if the shape of the meta made my creature removal worse, but as it is I would rather have the extra removal spell than the first Flayer.
Makes perfect sense. Thanks!
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Piney, try to think of Traverse as extra copies of Goyf and Shadow. In a way you're really running 12x creatures.
Sometimes, but not often, you will cast street Wraith and Ghor Rampager.
Now, obviously, if something dumb like a surgical on both creatures occurs, thats GG. I've punished more players for having surgical than them getting me with it, both in 4C and Grixis Shadow.
You can add 1x copy of Flayer, if you desire. I probably wouldn't add more than 1. A maximum of 2 and definitely no more than that.
This deck can kill pretty fast that spellbomb isn't that great. In the past 2x surgicals and 1x spellbomb was fine. The meta has shaped into something really dumb that a ton of GY hate is needed.
Also, something non-related, I like that Radiant Flames can hit for 4 against Thalia decks. It’s fringe but cool, and I bet it’s clutch when it happens.
I do not believe you can overspend for Converge. 3 is the most damage you can do, unfortunately.
EDIT: NVM, just realized the Thalia tax...making it 4. Carry on.
It's just an FNM, but I went 4-0 and steamrolled everyone except for my last opponent on Izzet Phoenix. Game 2 against Izzet I almost won with Rampager beating down. Game 1 and 3 were kinda blow outs. I 2-0'd everyone else
2-0 on Dredge (opponent saw a total of 2 lands in game games)
2-0 against Grixis Shadow
2-0 Merfolk
2-1 Izzet Phoenix
Great to hear. I’m encouraged by that, Siegel. I feel like I’ve made a good choice. Can’t wait to throw this pile of cards together (still waiting for them to come in the mail). I’ve been solitaire-ing on Cockatrice with your 60 just to get a feel for the deck. I’m waiting ‘til I actually have the paper so I can play people I know up at my LGS. I feel like they’ll be more gracious and patient as I blunder my way to basic familiarity with the deck than the often-impatient a**holes on Cockatrice. But man, it’s crazy how quickly you can dig/search through your deck. I think it’s going to be a hoot.
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I think 7 discard spells (alongside what I assume is 3 Stubs) and 2 Looting is reasonable to try. I think that both Shadow decks can benefit from 1-2 Faithless Looting.
I've been liking Trophy against Spirits post-board. Being able to hit RiP, Worship, or Moorland Haunt with the same card, in addition to their creatures, has been nice.
Yup, 3 stubborns, 7 discard and 2 lootings. Due to leyline being a mandatory card the loots help a little.
What I do like about stubborn is that casting stubborn to counter something and have an instant fill the yard can sometimes help turn traverse on. Remember those feelings when you had instant removal but it was stuck in hand? It's only a sometimes thing but it still can matter.
I accidentally put 1x lotv and 2x k command main deck but I wonder if I should keep that.
Sideboard is fairly standard.
If you wantto be prepared for KCI, extra counter spells work great and also pull double duty against burn, Tron, and Valakut. If you're liking KCMD for its affinity application, I would say straight removal wouldbe better because you can also use it against humans and spirits.
All that being said, I personally still use 1x KCmd in my sideboard.
Draft My Cube!
And I noticed some straight Jund lists on Goldfish. I’m guessing 3c helps with consistency? How crucial is Stubborn Denial?
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4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
1x Swamp
1x Forest
Creature (13)
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Death's Shadow
1x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Mishra's Bauble
2x Faithless Looting
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Fatal Push
2x Tarfire
1x Dismember
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Temur Battle Rage
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Fatal Push
2x Alphine Moon
1x Stubborn Denial
1x Disdainful Stroke
2x Assassin's Trophy
1x Radiant Flames
1x Collective Brutality
The deck has a ton of play and it feels like a more aggressive version of Jund. There's tons of play with Mishra's Bauble, Scrying, and hands to keep. The deck is severely punishing for misplaying. You have to know when to slow down on life loss.
Meta choices? Well, the loot is nice, and playing 4x Leylines, it's nice knowing you can discard it if you draw it later. I also had a great game against a friend on Tron who played Leyline of Sanctity. Looted away my discard.
Some people like bolt instead of tarfire but I want those traverse's on and Goyf bigger. That one is personal choice and you should decide through experience.
I DO recommend splashing that blue. Stubborn denial is SO, SO Good. Like, sometimes broken good. It's a light splash. It only gets better as you play those ramp/combo decks post game.
People aren't decided on those K-Command/LOTV numbers. You could also play an extra dismember/Push/bolt there. You have to play with the numbers and decide for yourself, that spot isn't 100% a consensus. Some play none, some have no K Commands, or 1 LOTV, etc. That's a flex spot.
There aren't THAT many field of ruins around, the 4th color isn't too difficult. I do think 5C Shadow was too greedy.
The white splash isn't very good. It was primarily for Lingering Souls. Souls is bad in modern right now.
If your meta is filled with a bunch of midrange decks you're going to have a miserable time playing 4C Shadow. You don't want to see Jund players, UW Control, etc.
Outside of something like Jund, it often feels like this deck has game against a lot. For a few lands and Shadow it's worth having this, too. Just be patient with it, you may lose a lot when you start with it.
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2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (12)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
1x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
2x Tarfire
2x Temur Battle Rage
2x Terminate
Creature (13)
4x Death's Shadow
1x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Street Wraith
4x Tarmogoyf
Artifact (4)
4x Mishra's Bauble
Planeswalker (3)
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Abrade
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Assassin's Trophy
2x Collective Brutality
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
The only matchup where I really missed Stubborn Denial was burn. Matchups I played against that Stubborn Denial would have been relevant in were: Grixis Goryo's Vengeance, Jeskai, Storm, Bogles, Titanshift, and Tron. I actually beat Tron in all 3 matches I played against it, the matchup seemed really hard for them. Fulminator Mage is really good at denying resources against decks like Tron, Jeskai, and Titanshift, and in general this list is just really good at interacting with the ways that other decks are trying to win right now.
Why no loot?
What's really the advantage? I haven't found the blue too bothersome.
Why terminate over dismember?
This does look look against creature decks though
I'm not sure I see what purpose it serves, man. The mana hasn't been an issue.
I could order the Deltas now, but I kinda already pushed my budget limits. I bought a second Liliana, the Last Hope, the fourth Leyline of the Void (I needed that one anyway, I thought I could get by with three because the Hollow One decks were only running three back when I purchased those), and a fourth Lorwyn Thoughtseize (I only ever needed three at most for Jund. I have Theros TS’s, but there’s no way I’m running mismatched cards or even newer printings of cards in a deck I care about). Those cards, plus the DS’s and old U Shocklands, kinda maxed me out $$$wise.
So, with that said, I’m going to try both Jund DS and 4c DS, and if I find that the Wooded Foothills are just too bad in 4c, I may trade some stuff into my LGS for 4x Khans Polluted Deltas as a placeholder until I can spring for the Onslaught Deltas. Do you think the Foothills will be a big setback to my manabase? I can’t stand playing suboptimal lists.
I can’t lie, I watched some videos last night (Holy s*** Hoogland is almost unbearable to listen to sometimes) and Stubborn Denial seems really strong (and like you said, fetching for U really just forwards our plan of getting below 13 life, so there’s really not a downside). I’m motivated to play 4c based on what I saw and per your suggestion, Siegel. BUT... straight Jund Shadow would make me feel a little closer to home like I was just playing an Aggro-oriented classic Jund list. And between that familiarity, not needing Deltas, and because of DeFish’s suggestion, I’m also inclined to play that version. So I will try both, and do more research in the meantime.
I do really want to know though, so give it to me straight, how bad is Wooded Foothills in 4c? Is it going to give me a skewed impression of the deck? Here is that list again that I was initially going off of, for reference.
And I really appreciate the input, by the way. Both of y’all.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Hoogland is---awful to listen to. I had to stop watching him when I was researching Tron. Having a grown man singing about a theme song for Tron on multiple occasions was pretty anger inducing.
You should play what makes you feel more comfortable, man. If Aggro Jund would make you feel more at home go for that. Play 4C when you feel more comfortable with it, i guess. I was just messing around on mtgo last night with regular Jund Shadow and didn't do so hot. I didn't find playing in 3 colors a big deal. Obviously if i was trying to protect my life total or Field of Ruins was everywhere I'd change my tune.
I'm mainly just jamming the shadow decks in general though.
While the choice between 4c and Jund is basically dependent on how important stubborn denial is for your expected meta game, I think that Wooded Foothills are generally ok considering a couple factors. As a die-hard 4c player myself, I find that watery grave is typically the first shock I fetch. Now of course this depends on my opening hand and what I know about the opponent so far, but consider that my only main deck blue cards are 3x Stubborn. My value for blue may be accentuated by the blue sideboard options. Burn and Tron are very popular and they are both match-ups that are easy to push to 60% or better with some sideboard tech.
Here's why I consider all 4 colors to be critical.
Blue is crucial for beating burn and KCI (counter spells), and still very good against Tron, Storm, Dredge and Primeval Titan.
Red is crucial for beating Humans and Spirits (removal, sweepers, TBR) but also helps against Affinity, Scales, KCI, and Storm.
And while BGx midrange and UWx control are near impossible to win, I feel that my counter spells are one of the few edges I have in the match ups. For reference, here's my current list
4 Street Wraith
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
Spells (30)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Manamorphose
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Fatal Push
2 Dismember
1 Lightning bolt
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Collective Brutality
2 Delay
1 Spell Snare
2 Radiant Flames
1 Abrade
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Temur Battle Rage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
Draft My Cube!
I do have a couple more questions:
Why no Nihil Spellbomb in the main right now? It seems very applicable for the meta, cantrips, and helps Delirium/Goyf. I haven’t seen it in any lists so I guess I’m missing something.
Why no Grim Flayer in any lists, especially straight Jund lists? The deck seems really threat-light. Makes me nervous. Sure, Rampager and Wraith can technically become threats too, but how often does that happen?
Also, something non-related, I like that Radiant Flames can hit for 4 against Thalia decks. It’s fringe but cool, and I bet it’s clutch when it happens.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
What did you play against and how did you board? I haven't really had much trouble turning on delirium with the list I posted, but I also mulligan my 7 card hands pretty aggressively. Based on what I've seen you post, though, it sounds like you are too.
I think the reason you see Spellbombs in the maindeck of the bigger B/G/x decks is because they need to run them in order to beat the decks abusing the graveyard right now, while Traverse Shadow really doesn't. Your clock is so good that you can win some games without any graveyard hate at all, you really just need graveyard hate to guarantee you can win the damage race.
I would run Flayer if the shape of the meta made my creature removal worse, but as it is I would rather have the extra removal spell than the first Flayer.
Makes perfect sense. Thanks!
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Sometimes, but not often, you will cast street Wraith and Ghor Rampager.
Now, obviously, if something dumb like a surgical on both creatures occurs, thats GG. I've punished more players for having surgical than them getting me with it, both in 4C and Grixis Shadow.
You can add 1x copy of Flayer, if you desire. I probably wouldn't add more than 1. A maximum of 2 and definitely no more than that.
This deck can kill pretty fast that spellbomb isn't that great. In the past 2x surgicals and 1x spellbomb was fine. The meta has shaped into something really dumb that a ton of GY hate is needed.
I do not believe you can overspend for Converge. 3 is the most damage you can do, unfortunately.
EDIT: NVM, just realized the Thalia tax...making it 4. Carry on.
2-0 on Dredge (opponent saw a total of 2 lands in game games)
2-0 against Grixis Shadow
2-0 Merfolk
2-1 Izzet Phoenix
Played nearly the same deck as posted recently
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
1x Swamp
1x Forest
Creature (13)
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Death's Shadow
1x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Mishra's Bauble
2x Faithless Looting
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Fatal Push
2x Tarfire
2x Dismember
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Temur Battle Rage
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Fatal Push
1x Abrade
2x Alpine Moon
1x Stubborn Denial
1x Disdainful Stroke
2x Assassin's Trophy
2x Radiant Flames
I'm attempting to make a meta call of unfair decks/creature aggro.
I am SCREWED if I face a lot of fair decks at the IQ tomorrow.
I did debate on having a collected brutality in Izzet Staticasters spot.
With how well Grixis Shadow is doing, I wonder if I'll want to convert to Grixis after this tournament.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB