Fantastic post @Spooly, really appreciate your insight. As someone who is just starting to get into the format (longtime legacy player) I find these kind of breakdowns to be really helpful. Looking forward to your article!
edit: Did anyone ever try Whispers of Emrakul out of the board with this deck?
edit2: I found the search function. New question: has any reconsidered playing it lately?
It's really hard to make Whispers of Emrakul work - you basically need Thought Scour on top of everything else we are doing to enable it in a reasonable amount of time. Plus, it has strong diminishing returns on top of already running 8 one mana discard spells. If we could cast it on turn 2 reliably, it would be a different story. But that's a hard ask.
Hello, I'm considering to include one or two Ground Seal in the SB
I find Ground Seal can be good against KCI, Dredge, Reanimator... and it is also a good protection against Scavenging Ooze or even Surgical Extraction (it is terrible if the opponent surgical our DS or Tarmo).
The other possible modification is the mentioned 3rd Temur Battle Rage in the SB or in the main...
What is your opinion?
Some points: 1) 2 mana is a lot for this deck, so the card better be worth it 2) we really want our graveyard hate to hamper Mardu Pyromancer, because that's one of the ways we can steal wins, 3) against KCI and Reanimator, our plan A already crushes them, 4) Ground Seal doesn't stop Dredge at all.
@who - I was implying that I'd be going to down 17, and asking what's better to cut; the 11th fetch land or the 2nd Overgrown tomb?
@spooly - what about Rakdos charm as tech against Mardu, H1, KCI, or even against affinity? 2 or more modes are useful in each of those match ups.
I played in a roughly 70 player PPTQ with some harsh results. To the point of your recent split decision on lists, I think manamorphose would have helped me tremendously. I couldn't get any in time for the event so I played my latest posted list. Jeskai Control was extremely difficult. Round 2 was against Burn, which felt winnable but I lost 1-2 to Boros Charm (both loses). I played against two Mardu opponents next, losing to both. This is a very winnable match if I had made some better decisions. Golgari Charm was insanely good against them. Both losses were 1-2. I played against Living End and crushed him 2-0. The deck is too cute for competitive play.
That being said, my buddy came with me piloting UG Infect and in 5 rounds neither of us played humans once. I only spotted two people playing the deck all day, actually. More answers to the mid-range grind fests, and anti-human tools in my sideboard are what I'll be going for I think. Granted this was just one event, but in a very dense area with a lot of competitive magic shops. I think humans are not on the rise, but rather I fear mostly Tron and Mardu. I have two more PPTQs coming up next weekend so I'll get the manamorphose and try List A from your recent write-up (possibly slight changes to the board)
Mardu seems to be taking over the Jund role, and that match-up seems highly favorable post board where I'll have 2 Golgari Charm and 2 Nihil spellbomb. How do you feel about Kolaghan's Command against them? All of their tools put my creatures in the graveyard (as opposed to exile or library, etc) so the return mode is relevant. It can destroy bridge which is pretty crippling otherwise (especially if you're removing Abrupt Decay entirely) and it can pick off a Pyro or discard that last card in their hand.
Against Tron, do you feel that Ghost Quarter as an alternative to Fulminator Mage, being less Mana-intensive and potentially a turn faster, could be worth consideration in the sideboard? I was thinking 1&1 as opposed to your 2x Mage.
Mardu seems to be taking over the Jund role, and that match-up seems highly favorable post board where I'll have 2 Golgari Charm and 2 Nihil spellbomb. How do you feel about Kolaghan's Command against them? All of their tools put my creatures in the graveyard (as opposed to exile or library, etc) so the return mode is relevant. It can destroy bridge which is pretty crippling otherwise (especially if you're removing Abrupt Decay entirely) and it can pick off a Pyro or discard that last card in their hand.
Against Tron, do you feel that Ghost Quarter as an alternative to Fulminator Mage, being less Mana-intensive and potentially a turn faster, could be worth consideration in the sideboard? I was thinking 1&1 as opposed to your 2x Mage.
Mardu is the one midrange matchup where we can actually move the needle, though I don't think it'll ever be favorable unless you dedicate a lot of SB space to them. This is also a matchup where Grim Flayer is strong. Spellbomb + Golgari Charm are indeed great, and exactly what you want. I also bring in Grim Lavamancer and Radiant Flames since it fights the go wide strat. I always bring Abrade in against them too, in place of less flexible removal. Kills Bridge, and if they don't have bridge it can pick off a Young Pyromancer.
K command feels pretty slow and clunky against them though. I mostly don't want to prolong the game, because eventually they'll Blood Moon you, or get Reveler going, or find Bridge. But if you want that sort of effect, I'm more inclined to run Liliana, the Last Hope. Recursion, but also helps contain a major part of their plan. Despite being a 3 drop just like K Command, and thus slow and clunky, and also a grindy card that prolongs the game in a matchup that I don't want games to go long, she's high enough impact that I think she's worth it.
Also, they may have Leyline of the Void in their SB, and they may bring it in against us. That reeeally hurts us going long, but some hands it won't impact much. You could theoretically have an answer in the 75 to bring in, but stuff like Maelstrom Pulse is so clunky.
Ghost Quarter is faster against Tron, but the effect is significantly weaker. They can just hard cast Thragtusk or Wurmcoil sometimes, and their Relic draws will sometimes buy them an insane amount of time if Goyf stays small or we can't get delirium going. Plus, Fulminator is a reasonable board in against non-mardu midrange and control decks - sometimes you can get luck and mana screw them, in what are otherwise bad matchups, and those manlands are also a problem. Ghost Quarter does not have this additional flexibility. It also does nothing against Valakut, whereas Fulminator can buy you a turn in a pinch.
These are helpful pointers, thank you. I hadn't considered those other applications for Fulminator.
The Maelstrom Pulse got me thinking, what are our answers to Teferi? I don't like using Pulse at all but what other options do we have? And if I play a 75 with 0 answers to Teferi (I'm likely even removing Souls from my board) then should I always take Teferi with Thoughtseize, even if they have a more immediately relevant answer in hand (such as Path)? It seems like Teferi is completely unbeatable if they drop him when I have one or less threats on the board. Maybe that's what you have Delay for?
Regarding Leyline OTV, if Mardu brings it in then that's just another target for Golgari Charm so I'm not too worried.
-EDIT-
What about Thrun in the board against Jeskai and other non-Jund match-ups?
Also, I have another question for you about the selection of fetchlands. Obviously VC and BC are 4x but I'm wondering about choices on the others. The split is between Wooded Foothills and Polluted Delta, and the trade-off is that WF can't fetch Watery Grave just like PD can't fetch Stomping ground. But another consideration is that Polluted Delta can still fetch all 4 colors but Foothills can't fetch blue at all (unless you play Breeding Pool). It's for this reason that I've stuck with Delta over Foothills, mainly because in a pick-up a few weeks ago I needed blue immediately (Stub in hand) but my only fetch was WF. I'm sure there could be a time when I already have Watery Grave and I need Stomping ground to fill the other color roles while I operate on only 2x lands. What's your reasoning here?
These are helpful pointers, thank you. I hadn't considered those other applications for Fulminator.
The Maelstrom Pulse got me thinking, what are our answers to Teferi? I don't like using Pulse at all but what other options do we have? And if I play a 75 with 0 answers to Teferi (I'm likely even removing Souls from my board) then should I always take Teferi with Thoughtseize, even if they have a more immediately relevant answer in hand (such as Path)? It seems like Teferi is completely unbeatable if they drop him when I have one or less threats on the board. Maybe that's what you have Delay for?
Regarding Leyline OTV, if Mardu brings it in then that's just another target for Golgari Charm so I'm not too worried.
-EDIT-
What about Thrun in the board against Jeskai and other non-Jund match-ups?
Also, I have another question for you about the selection of fetchlands. Obviously VC and BC are 4x but I'm wondering about choices on the others. The split is between Wooded Foothills and Polluted Delta, and the trade-off is that WF can't fetch Watery Grave just like PD can't fetch Stomping ground. But another consideration is that Polluted Delta can still fetch all 4 colors but Foothills can't fetch blue at all (unless you play Breeding Pool). It's for this reason that I've stuck with Delta over Foothills, mainly because in a pick-up a few weeks ago I needed blue immediately (Stub in hand) but my only fetch was WF. I'm sure there could be a time when I already have Watery Grave and I need Stomping ground to fill the other color roles while I operate on only 2x lands. What's your reasoning here?
Delay is not great against the control decks, typically, because they have a way of prolonging the game. But Stub counters Teferi just fine, and of course protects our threats. I think that's where you want to be. Answering a Teferi that has already hit the table probably means you've already lost.
Thrun is not great for a couple reasons: 1) it's hard for us to hold up regeneration mana every turn, 2) double green can be annoying especially against the UWx control decks that have some number of field of ruin or even spreading seas, 3) traverse for thrun plus play him in the same turn is basically impossible, 4) settle the wreckage. It's still useful in those matchups, but it's not the haymaker we want it to be, and it doesn't do much in other matchups.
Another motivation for Wooded Foothills is to have another way to fetch for basic forest. But thinking about it now, I believe that should be 1 Foothills, 2 Delta. Been a while since I've thought about this manabase, and I was mostly regurgitating what I thought was an old one
Does anyone have any idea if there is a place where discussion of suicide/shadow zoo tends to take place? I'm interested in decks like this https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1245983 which have been popping up occasionally. I know there has been a little bit of discussion of it in this thread but was hoping there was some dedicated thread or discord perhaps.
I recently won (tied for 1st and 2nd with a prize split) a Star city games Invitational qualifier of around 75 players.
I ran a traditional 5C list (similar to the Spooly build before the banlist) no manamorphose (jumped on that train and did not like it). Ill make a write up in the following days.
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-Previous account: Jund Em In (Forgot my twitch password )
Greetings from the other side! We recently created a death's shadow discord server mainly for modern decks. It's welcome to all shadow players so feel free to join if you want another place to discuss your shadow decks and strategies with.
Day 1, Round 1 - Boros Burn (2-0)
Game 1 was very close, but TBR stole the game before he could topdeck another lightning bolt. Snapcaster was amazing here, allowing me to take another burn spell from his hand while he was tapped out. Game 2 I was lucky enough to draw both Collective Brutality and he couldn't keep up enough steam. TBR wins the match again
Day 1, Round 2 - Humans (0-2)
Game one I wasted an early fatal Push on a Noble when he appeared stuck on lands, which turned Ed out to be a mistake. He overran me with two Lieutenants and a Mantis. Game 2 I had an insane hand where I Thoughtseize him turn 1, then he topdecks his sideboard CHALICE OF THE VOID and casts it for X=1. He durdled for a few turns after that so I certainly could've stole the same but I scooped after he landed a Mantis and a reflector on my Tarmogoyf.
Day 1, Round 3 - Pyro Prison (2-1)
He stole game one off an early Chalice on 1 (really hating that card by now). Games two and three I destroyed him with sideboard hate. Manamorphose was an all-star here allowing me to cast spells through Blood Moon.
Day 1, Round 4 - RW Prison (1-2)
Very strange deck.. he ran Enduring Ideal + Form the of the Dragon combo. Prison effects got me games two and three (Runed Halo). I could have sideboarded better against this deck had I known more about it after game 1.
Day 1, Round 5 - KCI (2-1)
Game one I tore apart his hand, countering his topdeck KCI and won with TBR. Game two he got the double-myr-loup before I could get in. Game three the sideboard hate won for me. I hit KCI with Negate, then topdeck ancient grudge.
Day 1, Round 6 - Vizier Combo (0-2)
Both games he got the combo turn 3. I obsessed over what I could've done differently to combat this but I think it was impossible for me with him opening up that strongly.
2nd PPTQ - 58 players, 6 rounds
Day 2, Round 1 - Humans (0-2)
Got killed by Mantis both games. Never drew any sideboarded cards in game 2. Opening hand I took his Thalia instead of Mantis, but maybe that was a mistake.
Day 2, Round 2 - Sultai Shadow (1-2)
This was basically our deck, but with more Snaps, Opt instead of Traverse, and Predator's Strike instead of TBR. I definitely should have won this match. Game 1 went as expected, my deck outclassed his completely, and TBR took the game. Game 2 and 3 I got so completely flooded it was ridiculous. Topdecking at least 3 lands in a row both games. He topdecked Shadow, Goyf, Push
Day 2, Round 3 - Grixis Control (2-1)
Game one he got me Bolt + Snap + Bolt, while I flooded out. I had nine lands on the field this game. Games two and three I had just enough counter magic to stop his removal, and getting the win off a huge Shadow and TBR as my first hit against him in the final game.
Day 2, Round 4 - Bridge Vine (2-1)
Game 1 he got destroyed by a Tarmogoyf and a Shadow, finishing with TBR. Game two he Thoughtseize away my only threat but then durdled a bit, eventually killing me with a Gravecrawler and a single Zombie token. I was flooded this game as well. Game three I got a monster start, taking his opening Looting. He couldn't draw into anything recant quick enough and I killed him with two Shadows.
Day 2, Round 5 - Tron (2-0)
I kept a hand with two threats and a Traverse, but no other action to speak of. I cast Traverse on turn 1 to ensure my second turn land drop and cast a 5/6 Tarmogoyf on turn 2, then topdecked another Goyf and he just couldn't recover. Game two I opened with literally the same play, Traversing for basic swamp turn 1 & casting a 5/6 Tarmogoyf on turn 2. I was lucky enough to draw my Fulminator in the opening hand so I can that on turn 3 (even though I had another Goyf in hand). Turn 4 I topdecked Kolaghan's Command which destroyed his Oblivion Stone and returned my F-Mage. He scoops on turn 5 after I blow up another land and take him down to 5 life.
Day 2, Round 6 - Mono White Taxes (0-2)
Game one I punted by forgetting to play a land before I attacked with a Shadow, TBR in hand. I could've cracked the fetch and hot for lethal had I been paying attention. My brain was a little friend by this point in my weekend. Game 2 I also punted by not casting a sorcery before my attack step which would've put my Tarmogoyf up to 6/7. He flashed in a Resto, blinking his Splicer and first-striking the Goyf for value. I had two 10/10 Shadows in play and TBR in hand, ready to swing for lethal next turn, when he topdecks an Eldrazi Displacer for the win.
Overall my take away from these events is that I still need to learn a lot about the metagame to play this deck properly. The feedback on some of the tech from my list:
-I would never sleeve up this deck without Manamorphose. It was an all-star for me all weekend. It drew me into air only two or three times that I remember, but it achieved delirium for me often and kept Tarmogoyf at 5/6 rather than 4/5 in most games.
-I would not play the deck without Snapcaster either, unless the meta shifted to a point that cutting blue entirely was relevant. I traversed for Snap several times to make back-breaking plays, and drew him naturally often enough to be relevant as well. I never had him stuck in hand without enough lands to utilize him. Manamorphose may have been responsible here, but I never got stuck on lands at all. One game I did only get two lands in play but I won that game still.
-I need to be absolutely sure I've sequenced my turn properly before I attack. Also I might consider including Ghor-Clan back in the maindeck. There was at least one time I can remember where I lost game in which i would've won if I had him as a Traverse option.
-AEther Vial decks with flying creatures are most definitely a weakness of this deck. Every game I lost to humans was to Mantis Rider. And even against Taxes, had they no flyers I would've dominated the match.
Here is my decklist and report for a SCG IQ: http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122953
I ran a 5c traditional decklist without manamorphose.
I had the option of playing humans over 5c shadow, but decided against it. I havent had enough testing with humans and I feel like I know the ins and outs of 5c shadow, plus its my pet deck since I jumped off jund.
I also ran 2 basics, a forest over the 4th bloodstained mire. (a friend suggested this change due to the sheer ammount of ghost quarters, fields of ruins and paths running around) I will keep testing the 2nd basic but it felt nice to have the option of a second basic. Not 100% sure if this is the way to go in a 5c deck.
Round 1 Boros Burn 0-2
G1 Mull to 6. I was happy once I saw it was burn, as I feel this is a favorable matchup. However, I lost to a very fast start with 3 goblin guides. Once I managed to stabilize I was too low and couldn't make it in time.
G2 Mull to 6. Decent hand with removal and threat in tarmogoyf. His turn 2 was a rest in peace which shut me off the tarmo and managed to swing into a grindy game where I did not find a shadow in time and lost.
Round 2 Grixis Shadow 2-0 (against Dylan Hovey a great jund/shadow streamer I have learned a lot with his streams, recommend you check him out)
G1 Grindy games, in the end, my tarmos are larger than his gurmag angler.
G2 Mull to 6. Same thing, grindy games. I side in the suite of lingering souls. I keep in a few discard spells and I get to see he has an inquisition in hand of his own. I sandbag a pair of streetwraiths in my hand and land a bauble but dont crack it, making my only live discardable card a lingering souls. He casts the inquisition and has to take the souls. Eventually traverse lets me find treats faster than him and the souls tokens allow me to keep back blocks and evasive threats to win. Always crack bauble on the opponents end step to avoid getting your draw discarded.
Round 3 8 Rack 2-0
G1 My opponent floods a bit and I discard/counter him to oblivion before he can resolve anything significant. I swing in with a tarmo and he's chump blocking with mutavaults until I win.
G2 I bring in the Lingering souls package to have some resilience and threats from the grave. I don't know if this is correct. I play a t1 discard and my opponent has kept a really good 7 with 3 smallpox, 1 lotv, and other stuff. I discard Lotv and decide Ill have to grind over the smallpox. I discard him again on t2 and I see he drew and second Lotv which I discard. My opponent hasn't played anything significant as I haven't played a creature for his smallpox to get max value. I resolve a tarmo on T3 while holding up a stub, my opponent has only 3 lands (has to draw his 4th land in order to cast his second smallpox after I counter the first one.) He draws the 4th land and casts 2 smallpoxes after I counter the first one. I discard his 3rd smallpox and land another tarmo and my opponent draws and casts his 4th smallpox. We are both down to 1 or 2 cards but he has no clock on me as he hasn't resolved a single rack. I draw and sandbag a few extra lands in hand and he keeps pitching lands to his ravens crime to discard me. Eventually, he lands a rack and starts going at my life total 2-3 a turn and I land a shadow which gets larger every turn. I swing for lethal in a couple of turns thanks to his rack.
Round 4 Eldrazi n taxes 1-1-1
I also feel this is a favoured matchup
G1 I make the horrible misplay of landing a shadow while Im on 13 life and it instantly dies (I forgot to play the fetch land and shock in my hand) I tild really bad and end up losing a favored game 1.
G2 I bring red sweepers and win easily, my creatures are larger and I grind better against his small bears.
G3 We dont have enough time, just a few minutes. We grind and end up in a spot where were both top decking and Im ticking a liliana up and down taking care of his creatures and topdecks, but I dont have a clock of my own. We get turns and I draw a shadow which would have been lethal if I had an extra turn. We tie.
Round 5 Monogreen Tron 2-0 (he gave me the win)
I think my opponent's name is William, a really nice guy. He tells me he is x-2 and since I am x-1-1 I still have a shot at top 8. He gives me the win and drops but we still play for fun and he beats me. I don't remember much about the games but I mulled a lot and kept subpar hands and a turn 3 natural tron karn is hard to beat.
Round 6 Affinity 2-0
G1 I keep a nice 7 with a thoughtseize, push, stub, tarmo, shadow and two lands. I turn 1 discard one of his two cranial platings, On his turn he plays most of his hand: Memnite, ornithopter, vault skirge. I pass the turn holding up a stub for his second cranial plating and removal. I counter his plating. I drop a tarmo and a shadow on turn 3 and start hitting him, My opponent is at 13 have a temur battle rage to seal the deal.
G2 I side in 11 cards for this matchup including the lingering souls package and sweepers. I side out 6 discards, stubs and Lotv and watery grave.
I start with a good 7 including abrade, kozileks return, lingering souls and a tarmo. My opponent mulls to 6. I tap out to play a tarmo on turn 2 and opponent gets me for 5 infect on his turn 3 while I am tapped. On my turn 3 I have to think hard weather to fetch for red or white and if I want to enable abrade, kozilek return or turn on lingering souls. I attack and pass with a fetchland up and my opponent reads me like a book. he swings with a blinkmoth instead and I have to abrade the plating as Im dead to a galvanic blast if he has it. I land a 4/4 shadow and he galvanic blasts it (I made a good choice in being conservative with my life)
Eventually I play kozileks return and tarmo gets him when he starts to chumblock thanks to temur battlerage.
My record is 4-1-1 and I pass onto top 8 as the 8th seed.
Top 8 Nayaburn with wild nacatls 2-1
G1 My opponent has a fast start on the play in which he lands all 4 goblin guides and gets me before I can stabilize.
G2 This game plays out like the typical burn-shadow match in which we go back and fourth being conservative until I can land a small shadow and bait him with a street wraith and he cant swing with his creatures due to being dead on a large crackback. I land another 2 shadows and that seals the game.
G3 My opponent keeps a semi slow hand and I discard him turn 1. I see a hand of lava spike, eidolon, bolt, firecraft and 2 lands. I take eidolon and I make a mistake and decide to shock and enable blue, instead of fetching a single forest to land tarmo. The game becomes a race in which I swing with tarmo and my opponent casts his burn and has me down to 9 life with a suspended rift bolt and has a boros charm in hand he casts at Eot. Im down to 2 life when riftbolt gets cast (would have been at a safer 4 life had I not shocked). My opponent has to topdeck any burn spell to win and draws an eidolon, I swing with tarmo and he is forced to chump-block to stay alive. he gets another draw to get me but draws a land and I take the game.
Semi finals Mardu Pyro 2-1
G1 Dont remember too much about this game. We grind it out but he has a hard time removing my treats and I can remove his t2 pyromancer and can capitalize on the tempo swings from his lootings cast at 3 mana (which is doing nothing for a turn).
G2 We are going back and forth and get to a miscommunication problem, where my opponent discards to a looting and places an inquisition in the grave on top of the other two cards which he discarded and I understand he discarded the inquisition. When in reality he discarded two cards and casted the inquisition but he shortcut to placing in in the grave. I thought he had discarded and proceeded to untap and draw for turn as he was tapped and as soon as i drew for turn I realized he had actually cast the inquisition. We had a judge call and I got a games rules violation. My opponent got to pick any card from my hand (liliana last hope, Darn! )and shuffle it back into the deck and then resolve the inquisition. I lose this one as I needed the liliana last hope to seal the game.
G3 I keep a good hand with discard removal a kozileks return and a pair of tarmos. I discard my opponent and take some removal, my opponent then discards me taking one of my tarmos. I land a tarmo t2 and my opponent plays a looting and draws another discard spell to discard me further. I draw a discard spell of my own to discard his only removal (fatal push) and a 5 power tarmo starts pressuring his life. He flashes back looting on his turn 3 digging for answers (doing nothing on t3) and tarmo gets in again this time for 6, leaving him at a low life total. He then has to play a pyromancer and tokens to chumpblock on turn 4 but I show the kozileks return in hand for the win.
Finals vs affinity
We decide to split the prize money and since I dont care about the SCG points I let him take 1st place and I take 2nd.
All in all the deck felt great, and I had good to decent matchups all day. There was a lot of UW control that day and Im glad I dodged it. The rest of the matchups feel a good 50-50 or 45-55 to either direction. No free wins except vs combo decks and storm but every matchup feels very winnable.
The side deck feels solid, I personally like a lot of 1 of´s that have several applications vs multiple decks.
Looking back Id like to maybe fit in either a disdainful stroke or another nihil spellbomb in exchange for a sweeper.I might be running too many sweeprs.
To me it feels like a good-fair deck in any diverse meta. It has game against everything while being weak to only UW control and Dredge, and even then, those matchups are still winnable. It's a hard to pilot deck and it has many intricate lines that come up with practice but in general, it feels good.
It might be a bit weaker than it used to: before the pro tour since mardu and jeskai are at an all high and id say they are slightly favoured 55-45. But this deck wrecks combo and big mana so its a nice trade off since KCI seems to be getting popular.
On another note, im confident in saying this deck is better than grixis shadow (its just less popular and more difficult to pilot). We dont durdle around searching for threats with cantrips such as serum visions. We actually run more threats than grixis: 4 shadows, 4 tarmos and 4 traverse is 12 threats vs 4 delve creatures and 4 shadows of grixis (snapcasters dont count as a threat).
Grim flayer and snapcaster are interchangeable in the deck, I prefer grim flayer as threat number 13, just my preference. But I wouldn't run more than a single snapcaster if I had to, its clunky and it might be better suited for grixis.
If i had to change anything it would be depending on the meta, I could go more towards jund colors and add a few bolts instead of stubborn denials in the main deck, and cut out a color from board and focus on just 4 colors, either blue or white would get cut. I like the current 5c as it gives me game vs combo and vs midrange gindry decks.
Also a lot of people have tested and had success with manamorphose, Its a "free" cantrip and speeds up the deck, giving a bit of safety vs bloodmoon, enables delirium with instant type. I personally didnt have a good time testing the card and it might be clunky against a thalia and it can make mulligan decisions harder as you dont know what card it will be until you cast it. Its a sold choice nonetheless depending on how you build your deck.
Thanks for that outline. I also have a few questions.
How did you sideboard against Mardu?
Did you see any Humans players at all? I just say it's lucky to dodge Humans and UW control all day, considering they're the two most popular decks and both hard match ups for us.
Either way, congrats! Other than the match against 8-Rack (i.e. fringe deck) how important would you say lingering souls is for the sideboard? I removed it recently and haven't missed it.
How would you have sideboard if you had played against Humans? And also Miracles? My sideboard is very similar to yours but I use K-Command and increased quantities of other cards (Spellbomb, Brutality) instead of Souls.
Thanks for that outline. I also have a few questions.
How did you sideboard against Mardu?
Did you see any Humans players at all? I just say it's lucky to dodge Humans and UW control all day, considering they're the two most popular decks and both hard match ups for us.
Either way, congrats! Other than the match against 8-Rack (i.e. fringe deck) how important would you say lingering souls is for the sideboard? I removed it recently and haven't missed it.
How would you have sideboard if you had played against Humans? And also Miracles? My sideboard is very similar to yours but I use K-Command and increased quantities of other cards (Spellbomb, Brutality) instead of Souls.
1. Against Mardu, I side in 10 cards: Nihil spellbomb, Liliana the last hope, E explosives, golgari charm, kozilek return, 3 lingering souls, 1 godless shrine, 1 abrade or radiant flames (depends if I expect ensnaring bridge)
take out 10 cards: 2 Liliana of the veil, 2 stubborn denial, 1 watery grave, 2 thoughtseize, 2 inquisition (I like to leave in at least 4 discards since they reload their hands a lot in the mid-late game after a flashback looting), 1 temur battle rage
This matchup gets a lot better post sideboard and it feels actually easy, all of their creatures are small and puny 1/1s and 2/1s which you can sweep easily even with a golgari charm. Their largest creature which is reveler is too small even if they grow it. You can grind them on the same axis with lingering souls but they don't even run sweepers, plus they tend to discard their souls while you cast them twice for double value. You have enough sweepers post board to never let them get board presence or even wipe them completely after they make their tokens. And they spend 3 mana on a turn usually flashing back a looting, allowing you to gain tempo and get an advantage.
I approach the match by trying to play the grindy game while keeping the pressure high and forcing them to have removal. I side a temur battle rage out (even tho it goes over their tokens) as it is kind of dead in the early turns of the game and we want to pressure them fast.
2. I saw several human players but did not get matched against any, the majority of the field I saw running around was decks a mix of mardu, burn and jeskai. I wasn't matched with any of jeskai decks either, although I consider it to be a better matchup than UW.
Humans I think is a little harder than mardu but as usual g2 and 3 gets better, I know its considered an uphill but not bad, reflector mage can be a problem, but in general I'm not worried about getting matched with humans. On my personal record, I've been very favored against humans but I don't know how much of that is due to luck or personal bias. UW control, on the other hand, feels very bad and my record against that deck is like 35-65 if not 30-70. So yeah I was definitely lucky to dodge UW for the whole day.
3. Id say White (souls package) is the least important color we run. I have cut it several times and always find myself missing in on the grindy matchups (I'm a big fan of the card so I'm biased). But they are definitely the most cuttable cards in the deck. Id love to find a way to keep good grindy cards in the other 4 colors but none of them have been as good as souls. But yeah they aren't super important, I just like them a lot and I'm never sad to see them in my opening hand.
4. Against Humans id take out 8 cards: Watery grave, 2 stubborn denials, 4 thoughtseize, 1 traverse
And ill bring in 8 cards: 1 abrade, 1 kozileks return, 1 radiant flames, 1 E explosives, 1 godless shrine, 3 lingering souls
Liliana the last hope sounds good on paper but she ´s not really impactful enough and I'm not too excited about it as it only kills noble hierarchs, phantasmal image, small lieutenants and champions and Thalia guardian of thraben. Id rather spend 3-4 mana on a sweeper.
-Funny interaction with radiant flames and thalia guardian of thraben is when you have to pay 4 mana because of the tax and get that extra color in for a 4 damage sweep thanks to converge. That takes care of creatures with extra 1+/+1 counters.
-Similar interaction as above with E explosives.
-Tarmogoyf and lingering souls laugh in the face of auriok champ.
-As I said it doesn't feel like a bad matchup to me, maybe slightly uphill but its very manageable if you play very jund like as the controller.
A nicely timed battle rage is also key in getting a win from an otherwise lost game.
I've been in the middle of a move the past week or so and only recently got internet at the new place, but the metagame appears to be shifting in a more favorable position for Shadow lately, and I think I'll put some testing time in.
I think we can fight UW pretty effectively since they're running Terminus instead of Verdict. We can easily Stub that, and Teferi. It won't be a favorable matchup, but it doesn't have to be as atrocious as Jeskai is. (Or Jund) Just play 2 basics and manamorphose so their mana denial plan isn't quite the KO is can be.
I suspect that we're pretty favored against the bridgevine deck, though it has me considering Surgical instead of Spellbomb as the GY hate. But I reeeally like having spellbomb because it's also good against Mardu where surgical really isn't.
I'm pretty skeptical of Snapcaster in this shell because it's so slow and clunky, but I do like the 1 of Flayer as an additional threat. And I wouldn't leave home without MD bolts these days. Gotta have them for Humans. That will probably be the focus of my testing once I get to it: trying to flip the Humans matchup. If we can make that positive, I think everything will fall into place.
One possible conflict I envisioned (though I haven't tested at all in the last week) is that if I adjust my list to include Bolts, will I run into a problem where I cast Manamorphose using my only two lands, name Black & Green, and then draw into a bolt that I otherwise would've loved to cast right then? Obviously if I have the Bolt already and a reasonable target for it, I'll likely just use it and save the MM. One of my favorite things about using MM over the 12 rounds I played was that I could only recall one time all weekend that I named colors blindly (as we must do sometimes) and I drew into a card I wanted to cast but couldn't. I don't remember the exact scenario but I was recording notes on my lifepad for things to keep track regarding potential changes to my list. Other notes I kept:
Traversed for Snapcaster twice, once to flashback an Inquisition against Burn and once to flashback a removal spell. I won both those games.. (that being said, I probably drew the Snap naturally more often than I rightfully should have. It seemed like I saw him at least once per match)
Needed Ghor-Clan as a Traverse target only once (that I recorded) but it cost me the game.
I had one foil Manamorphose and 3 regular, which I used to indicate any time I might've rather had a spell there instead of a catrip (considering only 3x MM). Only once did I record that the foil MM drew me into air and I needed removal at that time.
Games I got mana screwed - ZERO (as mentioned in my write-up, I did encounter a game where I only got two lands but I drew pretty well and won still)
Games I got mana flooded - FOUR (maybe MM is drawing me into too many lands? Lol I have no idea...)
I was trying to keep track of the opening hands I kept that did NOT have a discard spell. I stop keeping track after 5 games, because I was winning a lot of games where I didn't get the T1 discard. It's apparently not as critical to this deck's operation as I thought.
@Jund_Em_In : how's your 5c deck against UWx control ? Do you bring in the Lingering Souls ?
Its a bad matchup. I don't bring in Lingering souls. Even though they aren't terrible, I think they are too slow and don't put a clock on our opponent. UW tends to run enough field of ruins, spreading seas and sweepers to take care of either your only white source or simply take a few hits while drawing cards and sweeping the board whenever they want; plus they grind better and if we let them reach the late game we are dead. I prefer to take this match as a tempo game plan and try to mull for hands where I can land a treat t2 o t3 and start going at their life as quickly as possible while disrupting their plan with discard and counters. A well-timed Liliana of the veil can do some serious work and id say is one of the best cards in the matchup. Temur battle rage also nicks off a turn from the clock and is valuable.
I do bring them in against jeskai since they don't have the mana denial plan, and even though electrolyze trades with souls it's still a good grindy value engine they can't deal with cleanly (they run too many 1 for 1 cards).
My sideboard plan against UW is the following: Bring in 5 cards: 2 stubborn denial, 1 Liliana the last hope ( is hard to get rid of, is a must answer and rebuys threats, 1 collective brutality (acts as discard 9 and can drain for 2 in a pinch if you need the extra reach), 1 golgari charm (this is a nice tech, it can regenerate your threats off a supreme verdict/wrath of god etc. It can also get rid of detention sphere, search for azcanta, rest in peace if they bring it in, and in a pinch, it can get rid of the 1/1 tokens from Elspeth and/or timely reinforcements, allowing you to swing for game, this has come up often where they tap out for reinforcements or Elspeth thinking they can chump-block you for days and you catch them with the -1/-1 mode.)
From the main deck, I take out: 4 fatal push and 1 bloodstained mire (against path decks I take out a land)
I don't know if this is correct but I prefer to leave in the single dismember, its better than push as it can easily get rid of any Gideon planeswalker plus worst case scenario you can dismember you own DS on their end step (provided it is at least a 2/2 and swing with a larger DS on your own turn. Most of the time they bring in vendilion or they will try to chump-block you with a collonade if pressured enough, so it's not completely dead.
Having said that, I don't claim to be an expert on the UW matchup and I have a hard time winning it. My win record against UW is like 35/65 if not worse. Id love to get feedback from spooly and whocansay about this as I value their judgment and opinions highly when it comes to this deck.
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It's really hard to make Whispers of Emrakul work - you basically need Thought Scour on top of everything else we are doing to enable it in a reasonable amount of time. Plus, it has strong diminishing returns on top of already running 8 one mana discard spells. If we could cast it on turn 2 reliably, it would be a different story. But that's a hard ask.
Some points: 1) 2 mana is a lot for this deck, so the card better be worth it 2) we really want our graveyard hate to hamper Mardu Pyromancer, because that's one of the ways we can steal wins, 3) against KCI and Reanimator, our plan A already crushes them, 4) Ground Seal doesn't stop Dredge at all.
@spooly - what about Rakdos charm as tech against Mardu, H1, KCI, or even against affinity? 2 or more modes are useful in each of those match ups.
I played in a roughly 70 player PPTQ with some harsh results. To the point of your recent split decision on lists, I think manamorphose would have helped me tremendously. I couldn't get any in time for the event so I played my latest posted list. Jeskai Control was extremely difficult. Round 2 was against Burn, which felt winnable but I lost 1-2 to Boros Charm (both loses). I played against two Mardu opponents next, losing to both. This is a very winnable match if I had made some better decisions. Golgari Charm was insanely good against them. Both losses were 1-2. I played against Living End and crushed him 2-0. The deck is too cute for competitive play.
That being said, my buddy came with me piloting UG Infect and in 5 rounds neither of us played humans once. I only spotted two people playing the deck all day, actually. More answers to the mid-range grind fests, and anti-human tools in my sideboard are what I'll be going for I think. Granted this was just one event, but in a very dense area with a lot of competitive magic shops. I think humans are not on the rise, but rather I fear mostly Tron and Mardu. I have two more PPTQs coming up next weekend so I'll get the manamorphose and try List A from your recent write-up (possibly slight changes to the board)
Thanks again Spooly
Draft My Cube!
If you're worried about midrange grindfests, honestly, it's better to switch decks. It's really hard to gain percentage points in those matchups.
Against Tron, do you feel that Ghost Quarter as an alternative to Fulminator Mage, being less Mana-intensive and potentially a turn faster, could be worth consideration in the sideboard? I was thinking 1&1 as opposed to your 2x Mage.
Draft My Cube!
Mardu is the one midrange matchup where we can actually move the needle, though I don't think it'll ever be favorable unless you dedicate a lot of SB space to them. This is also a matchup where Grim Flayer is strong. Spellbomb + Golgari Charm are indeed great, and exactly what you want. I also bring in Grim Lavamancer and Radiant Flames since it fights the go wide strat. I always bring Abrade in against them too, in place of less flexible removal. Kills Bridge, and if they don't have bridge it can pick off a Young Pyromancer.
K command feels pretty slow and clunky against them though. I mostly don't want to prolong the game, because eventually they'll Blood Moon you, or get Reveler going, or find Bridge. But if you want that sort of effect, I'm more inclined to run Liliana, the Last Hope. Recursion, but also helps contain a major part of their plan. Despite being a 3 drop just like K Command, and thus slow and clunky, and also a grindy card that prolongs the game in a matchup that I don't want games to go long, she's high enough impact that I think she's worth it.
Also, they may have Leyline of the Void in their SB, and they may bring it in against us. That reeeally hurts us going long, but some hands it won't impact much. You could theoretically have an answer in the 75 to bring in, but stuff like Maelstrom Pulse is so clunky.
Ghost Quarter is faster against Tron, but the effect is significantly weaker. They can just hard cast Thragtusk or Wurmcoil sometimes, and their Relic draws will sometimes buy them an insane amount of time if Goyf stays small or we can't get delirium going. Plus, Fulminator is a reasonable board in against non-mardu midrange and control decks - sometimes you can get luck and mana screw them, in what are otherwise bad matchups, and those manlands are also a problem. Ghost Quarter does not have this additional flexibility. It also does nothing against Valakut, whereas Fulminator can buy you a turn in a pinch.
The Maelstrom Pulse got me thinking, what are our answers to Teferi? I don't like using Pulse at all but what other options do we have? And if I play a 75 with 0 answers to Teferi (I'm likely even removing Souls from my board) then should I always take Teferi with Thoughtseize, even if they have a more immediately relevant answer in hand (such as Path)? It seems like Teferi is completely unbeatable if they drop him when I have one or less threats on the board. Maybe that's what you have Delay for?
Regarding Leyline OTV, if Mardu brings it in then that's just another target for Golgari Charm so I'm not too worried.
-EDIT-
What about Thrun in the board against Jeskai and other non-Jund match-ups?
Also, I have another question for you about the selection of fetchlands. Obviously VC and BC are 4x but I'm wondering about choices on the others. The split is between Wooded Foothills and Polluted Delta, and the trade-off is that WF can't fetch Watery Grave just like PD can't fetch Stomping ground. But another consideration is that Polluted Delta can still fetch all 4 colors but Foothills can't fetch blue at all (unless you play Breeding Pool). It's for this reason that I've stuck with Delta over Foothills, mainly because in a pick-up a few weeks ago I needed blue immediately (Stub in hand) but my only fetch was WF. I'm sure there could be a time when I already have Watery Grave and I need Stomping ground to fill the other color roles while I operate on only 2x lands. What's your reasoning here?
Draft My Cube!
Delay is not great against the control decks, typically, because they have a way of prolonging the game. But Stub counters Teferi just fine, and of course protects our threats. I think that's where you want to be. Answering a Teferi that has already hit the table probably means you've already lost.
Thrun is not great for a couple reasons: 1) it's hard for us to hold up regeneration mana every turn, 2) double green can be annoying especially against the UWx control decks that have some number of field of ruin or even spreading seas, 3) traverse for thrun plus play him in the same turn is basically impossible, 4) settle the wreckage. It's still useful in those matchups, but it's not the haymaker we want it to be, and it doesn't do much in other matchups.
Another motivation for Wooded Foothills is to have another way to fetch for basic forest. But thinking about it now, I believe that should be 1 Foothills, 2 Delta. Been a while since I've thought about this manabase, and I was mostly regurgitating what I thought was an old one
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I ran a traditional 5C list (similar to the Spooly build before the banlist) no manamorphose (jumped on that train and did not like it). Ill make a write up in the following days.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Greetings from the other side! We recently created a death's shadow discord server mainly for modern decks. It's welcome to all shadow players so feel free to join if you want another place to discuss your shadow decks and strategies with.
Here's the join link:
https://discord.gg/jBsSQMS
Also congrats Jund_Em_in, always awesome to see fellow shadow players doing well.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
1st PPTQ, 34 players, 6 rounds. I tried a few experimental things with my list, but included the manamorphose.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
1 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Manamorphose
2 Temur Battle Rage
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Fatal Push
2 Dismember
1 Tarfire
4 Verdant catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Stomping ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Golgari Charm
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Negate
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Radiant flames
1 Abrade
2 Nihil spellbomb
1 Temur Battle Rage
1 Fulminator Mage
Day 1, Round 1 - Boros Burn (2-0)
Game 1 was very close, but TBR stole the game before he could topdeck another lightning bolt. Snapcaster was amazing here, allowing me to take another burn spell from his hand while he was tapped out. Game 2 I was lucky enough to draw both Collective Brutality and he couldn't keep up enough steam. TBR wins the match again
Day 1, Round 2 - Humans (0-2)
Game one I wasted an early fatal Push on a Noble when he appeared stuck on lands, which turned Ed out to be a mistake. He overran me with two Lieutenants and a Mantis. Game 2 I had an insane hand where I Thoughtseize him turn 1, then he topdecks his sideboard CHALICE OF THE VOID and casts it for X=1. He durdled for a few turns after that so I certainly could've stole the same but I scooped after he landed a Mantis and a reflector on my Tarmogoyf.
Day 1, Round 3 - Pyro Prison (2-1)
He stole game one off an early Chalice on 1 (really hating that card by now). Games two and three I destroyed him with sideboard hate. Manamorphose was an all-star here allowing me to cast spells through Blood Moon.
Day 1, Round 4 - RW Prison (1-2)
Very strange deck.. he ran Enduring Ideal + Form the of the Dragon combo. Prison effects got me games two and three (Runed Halo). I could have sideboarded better against this deck had I known more about it after game 1.
Day 1, Round 5 - KCI (2-1)
Game one I tore apart his hand, countering his topdeck KCI and won with TBR. Game two he got the double-myr-loup before I could get in. Game three the sideboard hate won for me. I hit KCI with Negate, then topdeck ancient grudge.
Day 1, Round 6 - Vizier Combo (0-2)
Both games he got the combo turn 3. I obsessed over what I could've done differently to combat this but I think it was impossible for me with him opening up that strongly.
2nd PPTQ - 58 players, 6 rounds
Day 2, Round 1 - Humans (0-2)
Got killed by Mantis both games. Never drew any sideboarded cards in game 2. Opening hand I took his Thalia instead of Mantis, but maybe that was a mistake.
Day 2, Round 2 - Sultai Shadow (1-2)
This was basically our deck, but with more Snaps, Opt instead of Traverse, and Predator's Strike instead of TBR. I definitely should have won this match. Game 1 went as expected, my deck outclassed his completely, and TBR took the game. Game 2 and 3 I got so completely flooded it was ridiculous. Topdecking at least 3 lands in a row both games. He topdecked Shadow, Goyf, Push
Day 2, Round 3 - Grixis Control (2-1)
Game one he got me Bolt + Snap + Bolt, while I flooded out. I had nine lands on the field this game. Games two and three I had just enough counter magic to stop his removal, and getting the win off a huge Shadow and TBR as my first hit against him in the final game.
Day 2, Round 4 - Bridge Vine (2-1)
Game 1 he got destroyed by a Tarmogoyf and a Shadow, finishing with TBR. Game two he Thoughtseize away my only threat but then durdled a bit, eventually killing me with a Gravecrawler and a single Zombie token. I was flooded this game as well. Game three I got a monster start, taking his opening Looting. He couldn't draw into anything recant quick enough and I killed him with two Shadows.
Day 2, Round 5 - Tron (2-0)
I kept a hand with two threats and a Traverse, but no other action to speak of. I cast Traverse on turn 1 to ensure my second turn land drop and cast a 5/6 Tarmogoyf on turn 2, then topdecked another Goyf and he just couldn't recover. Game two I opened with literally the same play, Traversing for basic swamp turn 1 & casting a 5/6 Tarmogoyf on turn 2. I was lucky enough to draw my Fulminator in the opening hand so I can that on turn 3 (even though I had another Goyf in hand). Turn 4 I topdecked Kolaghan's Command which destroyed his Oblivion Stone and returned my F-Mage. He scoops on turn 5 after I blow up another land and take him down to 5 life.
Day 2, Round 6 - Mono White Taxes (0-2)
Game one I punted by forgetting to play a land before I attacked with a Shadow, TBR in hand. I could've cracked the fetch and hot for lethal had I been paying attention. My brain was a little friend by this point in my weekend. Game 2 I also punted by not casting a sorcery before my attack step which would've put my Tarmogoyf up to 6/7. He flashed in a Resto, blinking his Splicer and first-striking the Goyf for value. I had two 10/10 Shadows in play and TBR in hand, ready to swing for lethal next turn, when he topdecks an Eldrazi Displacer for the win.
Overall my take away from these events is that I still need to learn a lot about the metagame to play this deck properly. The feedback on some of the tech from my list:
-I would never sleeve up this deck without Manamorphose. It was an all-star for me all weekend. It drew me into air only two or three times that I remember, but it achieved delirium for me often and kept Tarmogoyf at 5/6 rather than 4/5 in most games.
-I would not play the deck without Snapcaster either, unless the meta shifted to a point that cutting blue entirely was relevant. I traversed for Snap several times to make back-breaking plays, and drew him naturally often enough to be relevant as well. I never had him stuck in hand without enough lands to utilize him. Manamorphose may have been responsible here, but I never got stuck on lands at all. One game I did only get two lands in play but I won that game still.
-I need to be absolutely sure I've sequenced my turn properly before I attack. Also I might consider including Ghor-Clan back in the maindeck. There was at least one time I can remember where I lost game in which i would've won if I had him as a Traverse option.
-AEther Vial decks with flying creatures are most definitely a weakness of this deck. Every game I lost to humans was to Mantis Rider. And even against Taxes, had they no flyers I would've dominated the match.
I will make the following changes to my list:
-1 Stubborn Denial
-1 Tarfire
-1 Inquisition of Kozilek
+3 Lightning bolt
Sideboard:
-1 Golgari Charm
+1 Stubborn Denial
Draft My Cube!
I ran a 5c traditional decklist without manamorphose.
I had the option of playing humans over 5c shadow, but decided against it. I havent had enough testing with humans and I feel like I know the ins and outs of 5c shadow, plus its my pet deck since I jumped off jund.
I also ran 2 basics, a forest over the 4th bloodstained mire. (a friend suggested this change due to the sheer ammount of ghost quarters, fields of ruins and paths running around) I will keep testing the 2nd basic but it felt nice to have the option of a second basic. Not 100% sure if this is the way to go in a 5c deck.
Round 1 Boros Burn 0-2
G1 Mull to 6. I was happy once I saw it was burn, as I feel this is a favorable matchup. However, I lost to a very fast start with 3 goblin guides. Once I managed to stabilize I was too low and couldn't make it in time.
G2 Mull to 6. Decent hand with removal and threat in tarmogoyf. His turn 2 was a rest in peace which shut me off the tarmo and managed to swing into a grindy game where I did not find a shadow in time and lost.
Round 2 Grixis Shadow 2-0 (against Dylan Hovey a great jund/shadow streamer I have learned a lot with his streams, recommend you check him out)
G1 Grindy games, in the end, my tarmos are larger than his gurmag angler.
G2 Mull to 6. Same thing, grindy games. I side in the suite of lingering souls. I keep in a few discard spells and I get to see he has an inquisition in hand of his own. I sandbag a pair of streetwraiths in my hand and land a bauble but dont crack it, making my only live discardable card a lingering souls. He casts the inquisition and has to take the souls. Eventually traverse lets me find treats faster than him and the souls tokens allow me to keep back blocks and evasive threats to win. Always crack bauble on the opponents end step to avoid getting your draw discarded.
Round 3 8 Rack 2-0
G1 My opponent floods a bit and I discard/counter him to oblivion before he can resolve anything significant. I swing in with a tarmo and he's chump blocking with mutavaults until I win.
G2 I bring in the Lingering souls package to have some resilience and threats from the grave. I don't know if this is correct. I play a t1 discard and my opponent has kept a really good 7 with 3 smallpox, 1 lotv, and other stuff. I discard Lotv and decide Ill have to grind over the smallpox. I discard him again on t2 and I see he drew and second Lotv which I discard. My opponent hasn't played anything significant as I haven't played a creature for his smallpox to get max value. I resolve a tarmo on T3 while holding up a stub, my opponent has only 3 lands (has to draw his 4th land in order to cast his second smallpox after I counter the first one.) He draws the 4th land and casts 2 smallpoxes after I counter the first one. I discard his 3rd smallpox and land another tarmo and my opponent draws and casts his 4th smallpox. We are both down to 1 or 2 cards but he has no clock on me as he hasn't resolved a single rack. I draw and sandbag a few extra lands in hand and he keeps pitching lands to his ravens crime to discard me. Eventually, he lands a rack and starts going at my life total 2-3 a turn and I land a shadow which gets larger every turn. I swing for lethal in a couple of turns thanks to his rack.
Round 4 Eldrazi n taxes 1-1-1
I also feel this is a favoured matchup
G1 I make the horrible misplay of landing a shadow while Im on 13 life and it instantly dies (I forgot to play the fetch land and shock in my hand) I tild really bad and end up losing a favored game 1.
G2 I bring red sweepers and win easily, my creatures are larger and I grind better against his small bears.
G3 We dont have enough time, just a few minutes. We grind and end up in a spot where were both top decking and Im ticking a liliana up and down taking care of his creatures and topdecks, but I dont have a clock of my own. We get turns and I draw a shadow which would have been lethal if I had an extra turn. We tie.
Round 5 Monogreen Tron 2-0 (he gave me the win)
I think my opponent's name is William, a really nice guy. He tells me he is x-2 and since I am x-1-1 I still have a shot at top 8. He gives me the win and drops but we still play for fun and he beats me. I don't remember much about the games but I mulled a lot and kept subpar hands and a turn 3 natural tron karn is hard to beat.
Round 6 Affinity 2-0
G1 I keep a nice 7 with a thoughtseize, push, stub, tarmo, shadow and two lands. I turn 1 discard one of his two cranial platings, On his turn he plays most of his hand: Memnite, ornithopter, vault skirge. I pass the turn holding up a stub for his second cranial plating and removal. I counter his plating. I drop a tarmo and a shadow on turn 3 and start hitting him, My opponent is at 13 have a temur battle rage to seal the deal.
G2 I side in 11 cards for this matchup including the lingering souls package and sweepers. I side out 6 discards, stubs and Lotv and watery grave.
I start with a good 7 including abrade, kozileks return, lingering souls and a tarmo. My opponent mulls to 6. I tap out to play a tarmo on turn 2 and opponent gets me for 5 infect on his turn 3 while I am tapped. On my turn 3 I have to think hard weather to fetch for red or white and if I want to enable abrade, kozilek return or turn on lingering souls. I attack and pass with a fetchland up and my opponent reads me like a book. he swings with a blinkmoth instead and I have to abrade the plating as Im dead to a galvanic blast if he has it. I land a 4/4 shadow and he galvanic blasts it (I made a good choice in being conservative with my life)
Eventually I play kozileks return and tarmo gets him when he starts to chumblock thanks to temur battlerage.
My record is 4-1-1 and I pass onto top 8 as the 8th seed.
Top 8 Nayaburn with wild nacatls 2-1
G1 My opponent has a fast start on the play in which he lands all 4 goblin guides and gets me before I can stabilize.
G2 This game plays out like the typical burn-shadow match in which we go back and fourth being conservative until I can land a small shadow and bait him with a street wraith and he cant swing with his creatures due to being dead on a large crackback. I land another 2 shadows and that seals the game.
G3 My opponent keeps a semi slow hand and I discard him turn 1. I see a hand of lava spike, eidolon, bolt, firecraft and 2 lands. I take eidolon and I make a mistake and decide to shock and enable blue, instead of fetching a single forest to land tarmo. The game becomes a race in which I swing with tarmo and my opponent casts his burn and has me down to 9 life with a suspended rift bolt and has a boros charm in hand he casts at Eot. Im down to 2 life when riftbolt gets cast (would have been at a safer 4 life had I not shocked). My opponent has to topdeck any burn spell to win and draws an eidolon, I swing with tarmo and he is forced to chump-block to stay alive. he gets another draw to get me but draws a land and I take the game.
Semi finals Mardu Pyro 2-1
G1 Dont remember too much about this game. We grind it out but he has a hard time removing my treats and I can remove his t2 pyromancer and can capitalize on the tempo swings from his lootings cast at 3 mana (which is doing nothing for a turn).
G2 We are going back and forth and get to a miscommunication problem, where my opponent discards to a looting and places an inquisition in the grave on top of the other two cards which he discarded and I understand he discarded the inquisition. When in reality he discarded two cards and casted the inquisition but he shortcut to placing in in the grave. I thought he had discarded and proceeded to untap and draw for turn as he was tapped and as soon as i drew for turn I realized he had actually cast the inquisition. We had a judge call and I got a games rules violation. My opponent got to pick any card from my hand (liliana last hope, Darn! )and shuffle it back into the deck and then resolve the inquisition. I lose this one as I needed the liliana last hope to seal the game.
G3 I keep a good hand with discard removal a kozileks return and a pair of tarmos. I discard my opponent and take some removal, my opponent then discards me taking one of my tarmos. I land a tarmo t2 and my opponent plays a looting and draws another discard spell to discard me further. I draw a discard spell of my own to discard his only removal (fatal push) and a 5 power tarmo starts pressuring his life. He flashes back looting on his turn 3 digging for answers (doing nothing on t3) and tarmo gets in again this time for 6, leaving him at a low life total. He then has to play a pyromancer and tokens to chumpblock on turn 4 but I show the kozileks return in hand for the win.
Finals vs affinity
We decide to split the prize money and since I dont care about the SCG points I let him take 1st place and I take 2nd.
All in all the deck felt great, and I had good to decent matchups all day. There was a lot of UW control that day and Im glad I dodged it. The rest of the matchups feel a good 50-50 or 45-55 to either direction. No free wins except vs combo decks and storm but every matchup feels very winnable.
The side deck feels solid, I personally like a lot of 1 of´s that have several applications vs multiple decks.
Looking back Id like to maybe fit in either a disdainful stroke or another nihil spellbomb in exchange for a sweeper.I might be running too many sweeprs.
It might be a bit weaker than it used to: before the pro tour since mardu and jeskai are at an all high and id say they are slightly favoured 55-45. But this deck wrecks combo and big mana so its a nice trade off since KCI seems to be getting popular.
On another note, im confident in saying this deck is better than grixis shadow (its just less popular and more difficult to pilot). We dont durdle around searching for threats with cantrips such as serum visions. We actually run more threats than grixis: 4 shadows, 4 tarmos and 4 traverse is 12 threats vs 4 delve creatures and 4 shadows of grixis (snapcasters dont count as a threat).
Grim flayer and snapcaster are interchangeable in the deck, I prefer grim flayer as threat number 13, just my preference. But I wouldn't run more than a single snapcaster if I had to, its clunky and it might be better suited for grixis.
If i had to change anything it would be depending on the meta, I could go more towards jund colors and add a few bolts instead of stubborn denials in the main deck, and cut out a color from board and focus on just 4 colors, either blue or white would get cut. I like the current 5c as it gives me game vs combo and vs midrange gindry decks.
Also a lot of people have tested and had success with manamorphose, Its a "free" cantrip and speeds up the deck, giving a bit of safety vs bloodmoon, enables delirium with instant type. I personally didnt have a good time testing the card and it might be clunky against a thalia and it can make mulligan decisions harder as you dont know what card it will be until you cast it. Its a sold choice nonetheless depending on how you build your deck.
How did you sideboard against Mardu?
Did you see any Humans players at all? I just say it's lucky to dodge Humans and UW control all day, considering they're the two most popular decks and both hard match ups for us.
Either way, congrats! Other than the match against 8-Rack (i.e. fringe deck) how important would you say lingering souls is for the sideboard? I removed it recently and haven't missed it.
How would you have sideboard if you had played against Humans? And also Miracles? My sideboard is very similar to yours but I use K-Command and increased quantities of other cards (Spellbomb, Brutality) instead of Souls.
Draft My Cube!
1. Against Mardu, I side in 10 cards: Nihil spellbomb, Liliana the last hope, E explosives, golgari charm, kozilek return, 3 lingering souls, 1 godless shrine, 1 abrade or radiant flames (depends if I expect ensnaring bridge)
take out 10 cards: 2 Liliana of the veil, 2 stubborn denial, 1 watery grave, 2 thoughtseize, 2 inquisition (I like to leave in at least 4 discards since they reload their hands a lot in the mid-late game after a flashback looting), 1 temur battle rage
This matchup gets a lot better post sideboard and it feels actually easy, all of their creatures are small and puny 1/1s and 2/1s which you can sweep easily even with a golgari charm. Their largest creature which is reveler is too small even if they grow it. You can grind them on the same axis with lingering souls but they don't even run sweepers, plus they tend to discard their souls while you cast them twice for double value. You have enough sweepers post board to never let them get board presence or even wipe them completely after they make their tokens. And they spend 3 mana on a turn usually flashing back a looting, allowing you to gain tempo and get an advantage.
I approach the match by trying to play the grindy game while keeping the pressure high and forcing them to have removal. I side a temur battle rage out (even tho it goes over their tokens) as it is kind of dead in the early turns of the game and we want to pressure them fast.
2. I saw several human players but did not get matched against any, the majority of the field I saw running around was decks a mix of mardu, burn and jeskai. I wasn't matched with any of jeskai decks either, although I consider it to be a better matchup than UW.
Humans I think is a little harder than mardu but as usual g2 and 3 gets better, I know its considered an uphill but not bad, reflector mage can be a problem, but in general I'm not worried about getting matched with humans. On my personal record, I've been very favored against humans but I don't know how much of that is due to luck or personal bias. UW control, on the other hand, feels very bad and my record against that deck is like 35-65 if not 30-70. So yeah I was definitely lucky to dodge UW for the whole day.
3. Id say White (souls package) is the least important color we run. I have cut it several times and always find myself missing in on the grindy matchups (I'm a big fan of the card so I'm biased). But they are definitely the most cuttable cards in the deck. Id love to find a way to keep good grindy cards in the other 4 colors but none of them have been as good as souls. But yeah they aren't super important, I just like them a lot and I'm never sad to see them in my opening hand.
4. Against Humans id take out 8 cards: Watery grave, 2 stubborn denials, 4 thoughtseize, 1 traverse
And ill bring in 8 cards: 1 abrade, 1 kozileks return, 1 radiant flames, 1 E explosives, 1 godless shrine, 3 lingering souls
Liliana the last hope sounds good on paper but she ´s not really impactful enough and I'm not too excited about it as it only kills noble hierarchs, phantasmal image, small lieutenants and champions and Thalia guardian of thraben. Id rather spend 3-4 mana on a sweeper.
-Funny interaction with radiant flames and thalia guardian of thraben is when you have to pay 4 mana because of the tax and get that extra color in for a 4 damage sweep thanks to converge. That takes care of creatures with extra 1+/+1 counters.
-Similar interaction as above with E explosives.
-Tarmogoyf and lingering souls laugh in the face of auriok champ.
-As I said it doesn't feel like a bad matchup to me, maybe slightly uphill but its very manageable if you play very jund like as the controller.
A nicely timed battle rage is also key in getting a win from an otherwise lost game.
I've been in the middle of a move the past week or so and only recently got internet at the new place, but the metagame appears to be shifting in a more favorable position for Shadow lately, and I think I'll put some testing time in.
I think we can fight UW pretty effectively since they're running Terminus instead of Verdict. We can easily Stub that, and Teferi. It won't be a favorable matchup, but it doesn't have to be as atrocious as Jeskai is. (Or Jund) Just play 2 basics and manamorphose so their mana denial plan isn't quite the KO is can be.
I suspect that we're pretty favored against the bridgevine deck, though it has me considering Surgical instead of Spellbomb as the GY hate. But I reeeally like having spellbomb because it's also good against Mardu where surgical really isn't.
I'm pretty skeptical of Snapcaster in this shell because it's so slow and clunky, but I do like the 1 of Flayer as an additional threat. And I wouldn't leave home without MD bolts these days. Gotta have them for Humans. That will probably be the focus of my testing once I get to it: trying to flip the Humans matchup. If we can make that positive, I think everything will fall into place.
Draft My Cube!
Its a bad matchup. I don't bring in Lingering souls. Even though they aren't terrible, I think they are too slow and don't put a clock on our opponent. UW tends to run enough field of ruins, spreading seas and sweepers to take care of either your only white source or simply take a few hits while drawing cards and sweeping the board whenever they want; plus they grind better and if we let them reach the late game we are dead. I prefer to take this match as a tempo game plan and try to mull for hands where I can land a treat t2 o t3 and start going at their life as quickly as possible while disrupting their plan with discard and counters. A well-timed Liliana of the veil can do some serious work and id say is one of the best cards in the matchup. Temur battle rage also nicks off a turn from the clock and is valuable.
I do bring them in against jeskai since they don't have the mana denial plan, and even though electrolyze trades with souls it's still a good grindy value engine they can't deal with cleanly (they run too many 1 for 1 cards).
My sideboard plan against UW is the following: Bring in 5 cards: 2 stubborn denial, 1 Liliana the last hope ( is hard to get rid of, is a must answer and rebuys threats, 1 collective brutality (acts as discard 9 and can drain for 2 in a pinch if you need the extra reach), 1 golgari charm (this is a nice tech, it can regenerate your threats off a supreme verdict/wrath of god etc. It can also get rid of detention sphere, search for azcanta, rest in peace if they bring it in, and in a pinch, it can get rid of the 1/1 tokens from Elspeth and/or timely reinforcements, allowing you to swing for game, this has come up often where they tap out for reinforcements or Elspeth thinking they can chump-block you for days and you catch them with the -1/-1 mode.)
From the main deck, I take out: 4 fatal push and 1 bloodstained mire (against path decks I take out a land)
I don't know if this is correct but I prefer to leave in the single dismember, its better than push as it can easily get rid of any Gideon planeswalker plus worst case scenario you can dismember you own DS on their end step (provided it is at least a 2/2 and swing with a larger DS on your own turn. Most of the time they bring in vendilion or they will try to chump-block you with a collonade if pressured enough, so it's not completely dead.
Having said that, I don't claim to be an expert on the UW matchup and I have a hard time winning it. My win record against UW is like 35/65 if not worse. Id love to get feedback from spooly and whocansay about this as I value their judgment and opinions highly when it comes to this deck.