Well the current version I'm playing has 21 red spells in the 75 (2 of which are Anger), 23 black spells, and 14 green.
So as crazy as it sounds, I need red just as much as black! So while mountain would have been awful in previous versions of the deck (I thought similarly to you, and cut the basic mountain at first) I quickly added it back in. Field of Ruin is rampant, the deck leans on Traverse as a manasource more often than ever, and I'm playing a lot of reach and kcommands and dreadbores and such.
Would love to try this list. I'm a bit concerned though against non-interactive decks due to less discard and no stubborn. Could you share your match ups against Storm, Tron/Etron, Bogles?
I'll throw another vote towards this deck being easier to play that 4/5c. My main reason for trying to hammer down what I want to be doing in Modern is because I am in the Modern seat for GP Kyoto in a few weeks. I played Grixis Shadow for a long time, and also played some Traverse before the BnR changes. I was basically set on playing one of those two since my team was set, but then the format had a stick of dynamite thrown at it so I have to reconsider a bit. I am sure I could just tune Grixis and probably do well, but BBE has been too good of an option to ignore. It may end up that I don't play it moving forward, but dismissing it ouright without testing is very clearly wrong. I do definitely want to stick in my Thoughtseize wheelhouse because it's what I like and what I am used to.
Playing something that can be proactive and aggressive will definitely be a big help in a long tournament. In addition, I can get more advice on play and deckbuilding from teammates about this because it is much more straightforward. If I try to talk to them about whether I want a Stomping Ground or not or what the best sideboard Traverse target is they can give general impressions but neither will have a lot of specific insights, whereas this requires a little bit less dedicated knowledge. I have already bounced some decklists off them and gotten some nice feedback.
"Do you have 3~4 mana? Yes? Then get a Bloodbraid Elf" is also just a really simplified version of trying to figure out what to do with Traverses.
Bogles is pretty rough. You just have to race. But I've only ever played it in paper 1 time in the ~4 years I've been playing modern, so I'm okay with with that.
Tron is okay, the pressure + land disruption has been great against them so far. Karn feels so much more beatable when you have BBE in the deck. Wurmcoil is their best threat usually (Ulamog is scarier, obviously, but something went wrong earlier in the game if they are getting there). Luckily this version is playing lots of K-Commands so you usually just trade one of those and one other removal spell and let them gain some life. You can actually slog through it in this version. Its a pretty close matchup overall.
E-Tron way easier. Their Smashers are smaller than both Goyfs and Shadows usually (the random red removal spells makes goyf huge). Chalice is only annoying, and rarely scary. All is Dust is their best card against us by far.
Storm is still pretty good. We don't smash them like we used to, but we still have cheap removal for their cost reducers and just 1 thoughtseize will usually buy us the turn we need to kill them. Postboard we get extra disruption in brutalities and cages. Don't forget to bring in the Pulse and probably an Anger for the Empty plan.
You can make room for TBR if you want to race, more brutalities for disruption, or more graveyard hate if you want to fight these linear strategies. I've just been finding creature aggro and grindy fair decks to be more common right now. Another option is to swap some of the brutalities to the mainboard instead of some of the burn spells or the kcommand if you want to be better against those spell based decks.
But overall, I'm happy with this version because modern right now feels like it has a real Rock/Paper/Scissors of Fair>Aggro>Big Mana>Fair. And less of the spell based combo decks and such. This deck can grind with the best of them, beat the aggro decks with the plethora of cheap removal spells and can be even against the big mana decks.
Thanks man that was indeed insightful. I'll try this list on my next tourney, tuning it in my meta of Bogles, Tron, Ponza, Storm and Mardu/Abzan. I left in 2 TBR for the un-interactive matchups. It's a bad cascade without any big creatures on the board but helps close the game. I've stolen so many matches with this card. If the meta is grindy/interactive then it's an easy cut. A single Abrupt Decay for some non-sense shenanigans, also hedging to hit Blood Moon against Ponza pre-board. But as mentioned, the mana is pretty resilient but still don't wanna get caught with my pants down.
The sideboard is full of one-ofs mainly because I don't wanna be over side-boarding. I feel that in comparison to other fair/midrange decks which can board in more hate cards, with this deck we lose some synergy and aggression if we do the same.
Can’t cut the Dreadbore or more importantly you can’t cut the Sorcery slot. I tried 2 x Collective Brutality and found it was more versatile than DB but, less powerful. It was nice to BBE into CB and nab a CoCo and kill a Voice discarding a Seal. Has anyone tried Vessel of Nascency? I have thought i trying 1 Vessel / 1 Seal just for digging and I think in the SB game that allows us to reach for that Utility Creature or Blood Moon, etc... Anyways, Geneyquakes I have to say I really like this innovation. Kudos
I've played around with Abrupt Decay in the main too, I think it is a perfectly legitimate option. I eventually ditched it to up the Bolt count, but I put 2 in the side. Againt Boggles, Ponza, and Abzan it should be solid. I played against Boggles last week and Abrupt Decay for the Daybreak Coronet blowouts was excellent. It can be slightly expensive and color sensitive but the versatility is excellent. Back to Nature seems narrow but there is no doubt that it is super high-impact if you see good matchups for it. Be careful with Engineered Explosives, is it a straight blank off of Bloodbraid unless you want to hit tokens. I do think it is an excellent SB card, but beware of the cost.
@pass8054
I haven't tried Vessel. My gut reaction is that it feels expensive, but it can find a lots of types and will be instant Delirium in a lot of cases. I won't take all the credit for making this because I took ideas from a lot of places and definitely copied from other people/decks, but I am pretty happy with how it came together and I am really interested in what will happen if the internet hive mind can get some nice testing and innovation going.
I think seal is better than Tarfire, so I would cut that first if you're playing both. If you want a second brutality, the 3rd kolaghans command is probably next. You can stick the extra k-command back into the sideboard in the brutality slot too. You probably still want enough copies of k-command in the 75 for the artifact decks and grindy matchups. Abrupt Decay could also be swapped.
After playing a fair amount with the BBE Shadow list.
It just feels overall weaker than the old Traverse Shadow.
Sure it can grind a bit better, but the explosive starts just aren't there anymore. You grind pretty well but at that point it feels like I am trying to win a topdeck war where I am only slightly favored against most decks.
It just feels overall weaker than the old Traverse Shadow.
I totally agree. I've tried it for about 50 matches now, and it feels bad. I came from Grixis DS to this deck, and Grixis is much more consistent and feels smoother. This deck just feels bad a lot of the time.
Thoughtseize feels akward against a lot of decks (as a BBE hit), Mishra's Bauble feels bad, Pulse/Push feels bad a lot of the time and TBR is just fullblown lottery with the already random BBE.
Aggro/Tempo? I can dig it.
I know I love bloodbraid elf and she is the tempo queen. I have been doing well with a list I'm running, I can't seem to bear to completely leave Liliana and IOK out of my list and I have a few other weird numbers but I have been winning and more importantly having tons of fun. I have not had the problem of having explosive starts, not sure if that is variance, but I really don't like going below six discard spells, that I know is certain.
Went 3-0 tonight at fnm. Didnt drop a single game, even though I went second every die roll and every game i played. Still feel this deck is very good. And white has proven to be the less important colour in my testing.
I ran a pretty stock 4c list with breeding pool.
R1 Bant Company 2-0
G1 Discard, and removal plus I manage to land triple shadow on turn 4 and proceed to blow him out.
G2 Is more of a grindfest which goes back and forth and even though he blows up two of my goyfs with engineered explosives, and paths 2 shadows, traverse lets me keep finding threats. Eventually he has to start chump blocking and my sweepers just get rid of his small critters.
R2 Eldrazi Tron 2-0
G1 I discard his smasher and lower my life total enough to land a shadow on t2. I swing for 5 on t3 and land another threat. I put early pressure which he cant respond to and swing for lethal on t4 off a temur battlerage.
G2 I side in Disdainful strokes and more stubborn denials. I mull and keep a mediocre 6 with discard, decay and lotv, No threat. Once again discard allows me to take his early plays, and decay his chalice. I land a lotv on an empty board and start going at his hand. I draw a goyf eventually and keep a disdainful stroke in hand which helps me seal the game. Disdainful stroke is the mvp in this matchup, it simply counters all of trons payoff cards.
R3 Abzan 2-0
G1 I feel this is a very bad matchup, between their pushes, paths, souls, finks etc we have a very hard time grinding against this deck and we should try to close as quick as possible. I start with early discard and land a shadow on t2, I start swinging on t3 and I pressure my opponent aggressively. I close this one out quick.
G2 I decide to side out half of my discard, leaving in 2 thoughtseize and 2 inquisitions. I cant side everything out as i dont have other cards to bring in. I mull and keep a slow 6, 1 discard, lotv, llth and lands. I discard turn 1 and se his hand full of gas with finks, eternal witness, goyf, abrupt decay and lands. I take the goyf he doesnt have any 2 drops and I dont have a 2 drop or removal to contest it. he drops a finks t3 and i drop ltlh into it and tick to 4, knowing he will only drop her back to 3, ltlh baits the decay on his t4 and he drops a voice of resurgence. On my t4 I drop lotv and shadow, I discard his final card which was E witness and I start plusing lotv. We go back and forth where I cant attack as he is at a high life total 18+, and im at 8 and I cant leave lotv wide open. I eventually draw into a goyf and He draws a gavony township and can chump block infinitely so we go back and forth. until I draw a third goyf and win off the back of a temur battle rage once again, I kept this in as its the only way to churn out a surprise win vs the souls tokens.
All in all this deck feels much stronger than jund against tron, but its weaker against other midrange decks like jund and abzan. I got lucky against the abzan deck as my opponent did not see much removal on G2 and didnt see a single souls in both games.
I feel happy with the deck without white and the mana feels a lot smoother.
Heres my deck list.Its pretty stock. Standout cards id say is double abrupt decay, theres a lot of U/W control in my meta and it hits azcanta nicely, and golgari charm is a undervalued card. Works against sweepers, leylines, storm tokens, mardu tokens, azcantas, detention spheres, etc.
That's sounds spicy as hell and I kinda like it a lot.
Bitterblossom seems very very spicy, but im not sure id run it since we dont have complete control over our life. Other than that I like the bolts and kcommands in the main, it runs more jund-like and keeps blue in the side. Interesting list
That's sounds spicy as hell and I kinda like it a lot.
Why? What do you like about 4 copies of Bitterblossom, a card that messes up our precarious life-related math, doesn't impact the board when it's played and barely improves our worst matchups?
Nice! If you have time, would you mind doing a write up? Or maybe just some thoughts on if you would change anything, or what cards over/under-performed?
I know I've personally been playing something similar (you guys convinced me on the sideboard TBR, but I haven't seen it much yet).
I've also been playing more bolts and less pushes.
Sorry for moving the threads around so much guys, but it's now in Midrange as it does align more with what we were going for. If you have any comments/complaints just direct them tot this thread. Thanks!
Playing something that can be proactive and aggressive will definitely be a big help in a long tournament. In addition, I can get more advice on play and deckbuilding from teammates about this because it is much more straightforward. If I try to talk to them about whether I want a Stomping Ground or not or what the best sideboard Traverse target is they can give general impressions but neither will have a lot of specific insights, whereas this requires a little bit less dedicated knowledge. I have already bounced some decklists off them and gotten some nice feedback.
"Do you have 3~4 mana? Yes? Then get a Bloodbraid Elf" is also just a really simplified version of trying to figure out what to do with Traverses.
Tron is okay, the pressure + land disruption has been great against them so far. Karn feels so much more beatable when you have BBE in the deck. Wurmcoil is their best threat usually (Ulamog is scarier, obviously, but something went wrong earlier in the game if they are getting there). Luckily this version is playing lots of K-Commands so you usually just trade one of those and one other removal spell and let them gain some life. You can actually slog through it in this version. Its a pretty close matchup overall.
E-Tron way easier. Their Smashers are smaller than both Goyfs and Shadows usually (the random red removal spells makes goyf huge). Chalice is only annoying, and rarely scary. All is Dust is their best card against us by far.
Storm is still pretty good. We don't smash them like we used to, but we still have cheap removal for their cost reducers and just 1 thoughtseize will usually buy us the turn we need to kill them. Postboard we get extra disruption in brutalities and cages. Don't forget to bring in the Pulse and probably an Anger for the Empty plan.
You can make room for TBR if you want to race, more brutalities for disruption, or more graveyard hate if you want to fight these linear strategies. I've just been finding creature aggro and grindy fair decks to be more common right now. Another option is to swap some of the brutalities to the mainboard instead of some of the burn spells or the kcommand if you want to be better against those spell based decks.
But overall, I'm happy with this version because modern right now feels like it has a real Rock/Paper/Scissors of Fair>Aggro>Big Mana>Fair. And less of the spell based combo decks and such. This deck can grind with the best of them, beat the aggro decks with the plethora of cheap removal spells and can be even against the big mana decks.
The sideboard is full of one-ofs mainly because I don't wanna be over side-boarding. I feel that in comparison to other fair/midrange decks which can board in more hate cards, with this deck we lose some synergy and aggression if we do the same.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
16 Creatures
4 Death Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Street Wraith
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire
2 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dreadbore
2 Temur Battlerage
15 Sideboard
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
1 Duress
1 Back to Nature
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dreadbore
1 Hazoret the Fervent or Scavenging Ooze
I've played around with Abrupt Decay in the main too, I think it is a perfectly legitimate option. I eventually ditched it to up the Bolt count, but I put 2 in the side. Againt Boggles, Ponza, and Abzan it should be solid. I played against Boggles last week and Abrupt Decay for the Daybreak Coronet blowouts was excellent. It can be slightly expensive and color sensitive but the versatility is excellent. Back to Nature seems narrow but there is no doubt that it is super high-impact if you see good matchups for it. Be careful with Engineered Explosives, is it a straight blank off of Bloodbraid unless you want to hit tokens. I do think it is an excellent SB card, but beware of the cost.
@pass8054
I haven't tried Vessel. My gut reaction is that it feels expensive, but it can find a lots of types and will be instant Delirium in a lot of cases. I won't take all the credit for making this because I took ideas from a lot of places and definitely copied from other people/decks, but I am pretty happy with how it came together and I am really interested in what will happen if the internet hive mind can get some nice testing and innovation going.
I am thinking some combination of abrupt decay, seal of fire, or dreadbore.
It just feels overall weaker than the old Traverse Shadow.
Sure it can grind a bit better, but the explosive starts just aren't there anymore. You grind pretty well but at that point it feels like I am trying to win a topdeck war where I am only slightly favored against most decks.
I totally agree. I've tried it for about 50 matches now, and it feels bad. I came from Grixis DS to this deck, and Grixis is much more consistent and feels smoother. This deck just feels bad a lot of the time.
Thoughtseize feels akward against a lot of decks (as a BBE hit), Mishra's Bauble feels bad, Pulse/Push feels bad a lot of the time and TBR is just fullblown lottery with the already random BBE.
I know I love bloodbraid elf and she is the tempo queen. I have been doing well with a list I'm running, I can't seem to bear to completely leave Liliana and IOK out of my list and I have a few other weird numbers but I have been winning and more importantly having tons of fun. I have not had the problem of having explosive starts, not sure if that is variance, but I really don't like going below six discard spells, that I know is certain.
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Flayer
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Hazoret, the Fervent
1 Ghor-clan Rampager
4 Street Wraith
Spells 23
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Dreadbore
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Fatal Push
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Blood Moon
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
I ran a pretty stock 4c list with breeding pool.
R1 Bant Company 2-0
G1 Discard, and removal plus I manage to land triple shadow on turn 4 and proceed to blow him out.
G2 Is more of a grindfest which goes back and forth and even though he blows up two of my goyfs with engineered explosives, and paths 2 shadows, traverse lets me keep finding threats. Eventually he has to start chump blocking and my sweepers just get rid of his small critters.
R2 Eldrazi Tron 2-0
G1 I discard his smasher and lower my life total enough to land a shadow on t2. I swing for 5 on t3 and land another threat. I put early pressure which he cant respond to and swing for lethal on t4 off a temur battlerage.
G2 I side in Disdainful strokes and more stubborn denials. I mull and keep a mediocre 6 with discard, decay and lotv, No threat. Once again discard allows me to take his early plays, and decay his chalice. I land a lotv on an empty board and start going at his hand. I draw a goyf eventually and keep a disdainful stroke in hand which helps me seal the game. Disdainful stroke is the mvp in this matchup, it simply counters all of trons payoff cards.
R3 Abzan 2-0
G1 I feel this is a very bad matchup, between their pushes, paths, souls, finks etc we have a very hard time grinding against this deck and we should try to close as quick as possible. I start with early discard and land a shadow on t2, I start swinging on t3 and I pressure my opponent aggressively. I close this one out quick.
G2 I decide to side out half of my discard, leaving in 2 thoughtseize and 2 inquisitions. I cant side everything out as i dont have other cards to bring in. I mull and keep a slow 6, 1 discard, lotv, llth and lands. I discard turn 1 and se his hand full of gas with finks, eternal witness, goyf, abrupt decay and lands. I take the goyf he doesnt have any 2 drops and I dont have a 2 drop or removal to contest it. he drops a finks t3 and i drop ltlh into it and tick to 4, knowing he will only drop her back to 3, ltlh baits the decay on his t4 and he drops a voice of resurgence. On my t4 I drop lotv and shadow, I discard his final card which was E witness and I start plusing lotv. We go back and forth where I cant attack as he is at a high life total 18+, and im at 8 and I cant leave lotv wide open. I eventually draw into a goyf and He draws a gavony township and can chump block infinitely so we go back and forth. until I draw a third goyf and win off the back of a temur battle rage once again, I kept this in as its the only way to churn out a surprise win vs the souls tokens.
All in all this deck feels much stronger than jund against tron, but its weaker against other midrange decks like jund and abzan. I got lucky against the abzan deck as my opponent did not see much removal on G2 and didnt see a single souls in both games.
I feel happy with the deck without white and the mana feels a lot smoother.
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Flayer
4 Street Wraith
4 Death's Shadow
Land
1 Breeding Pool
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Mishra's Bauble
Instant
1 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Fatal Push
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Godless Shrine
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Abrade
1 Golgari Charm
1 Radiant Flames
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Id like to try and fit in a singleton grim flayer and perhaps a snapcaster mage for utility. But havent gotten around to doing that.
Bitterblossom seems very very spicy, but im not sure id run it since we dont have complete control over our life. Other than that I like the bolts and kcommands in the main, it runs more jund-like and keeps blue in the side. Interesting list
I fought Human, Burn, Jund, Jeskai ''JACE'' Control and another Jund.
I enjoy playing BBE Traverse Shadow soo much !
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Why? What do you like about 4 copies of Bitterblossom, a card that messes up our precarious life-related math, doesn't impact the board when it's played and barely improves our worst matchups?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I know I've personally been playing something similar (you guys convinced me on the sideboard TBR, but I haven't seen it much yet).
I've also been playing more bolts and less pushes.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Are you on the jund or shadow Facebook group and shared this?
Doesn't notsb seem overkill, the deck is already heavy on removal
I like the inclusion of tbr