BBE does more than generate card advantage. She can do that, yeah, but what she really does is create board advantage. She helps you close the game on her own. After testing Jace, who is a just a pure card advantage engine, I wasn't very excited. He doesn't flip a board state. If you're behind, you're behind. And if you're even, you might still die after playing him because you spend 4 mana not really impacting the board, and if you're ahead, he doesn't shut the door quickly. BBE on the other hand is good at all positions of the game (other than being land screwed).
We need some card in our deck that lets us fight against the fair decks. BBE is the first one we have gotten that lets us just play 3 colors. Which is a way bigger boon than I first realized. The mana consistency alone has won me games that I would have lost if I was still playing 4 color, and getting to play BLOOD MOON in my shadow deck means I don't miss the blue countermagic.
It's possible that my current build isn't what we will actually end up on, but BBE has greatly overperformed for me so far. (And the silky smooth mana)
Apologies if I miss your list, do you play Manamorphose or the Tarfire/Seal package?
Oh and one tip. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Traverse Shadow. But in the previous version, every traverse was precious. But now, it's okay to "burn" a traverse to hit your land drops. BBE will make up for the lost tempo/threat density.
Oh that is a good tip. I have zero games with the deck so stuff like that is useful to know. Thanks!
You should play at least a few air games before jamming this deck at a LGS or event. I cant speak for the BBE version but, the Pro Tour version of the deck had very complex sequences that are critical on the first two turns. I wish you luck
Oh yea for sure, I have no illusions about it being easy and I will be testing a lot of games before settling on ratios I like. I am picking it up on purpose for the interesting complexity the deck offers over others
It is a deck that allows very complex avenues to route. The paths you take will leave you with sweaty palms, grins, and regrets. I have won alot of games on the back of a TBR with 1-2 health and I have lost alot of games coming up short by 1-2 health.
That sounds like all the fun in the world
Here is one of the decks that just 5-0'd, with me having so little experience with the deck, this is very close to what I had almost settled on for my list, with a lot of SB differences. Is this sort of where we want to be right now if not running BBE? It did 5-0 so there must be some merit to it
I've run variants of this through 4 leagues, and have 3 4-1s and a 2-3. I'm not convinced Jace should be MD, but that's where he'll stay while I'm experimenting. Realistically, moving both to the SB for the 4th IoK and another removal spell is probably where I want to be. Also, realistically, I'm insane trying to play Jace with only 17 lands. That said, Jace has been great at winning against grindier decks. Maybe 1 MD stays. Maybe just 1 in the SB. Or maybe 0 in the 75. I'm not sure.
The Fulminator plan also has started stealing me wins against the grindier decks. Even if I don't mana screw them, the tempo gain is great. Especially when you can Fulminator them 3 turns in a row, which isn't hard in this shell. (In my last league I played against BBE Jund and Grixis Control w/ Jace, and I beat both on the back of Fulminator in all 4 postboard games. I did not draw Jace.) The idea is that it's hard to compete in a grindfest against them, so don't. Try to get under them and stay under them by disrupting their mana. Then maybe stick something grindy and hard to deal with like Jace or Hazoret.
The one thing I don't like about this shell is that it doesn't have the ability to chain together copies of a good card advantage creature through Traverse. I tried a variant of the BBE list at a weekly on Wed (in paper), and that aspect of the deck was insane. But sometimes the BBEs were just not that relevant (vs. dredge, and vs. bolt + tar pit out of Grixis Control), and hitting Bauble was really bad. Sometimes hitting Shadow would have been pretty bad too - you can't just go to 9 against Grixis Control! I think chaining BBEs w/ Traverse is really powerful though, but maybe not in a shadow shell. What I really want is something *like* BBE that preferably doesn't cost more than 3, and is not awful with countermagic. I'm not sure it exists.
Bedlam Reveler doesn't quite do it, but it is an option. Though I don't really want to have to play 2 red lands, and it's still bad with countermagic. However, off topic, but this did inspire me to brew up a Reveler Jund list that's basically the Mardu Pyromancer deck except we have Traverse too so we can just cast Bedlam Reveler every other turn of the game every game. Think about how they'll chain into each other - it seems absurd. I'm excited to unleash this on my local magic community next week.
I've run variants of this through 4 leagues, and have 3 4-1s and a 2-3. I'm not convinced Jace should be MD, but that's where he'll stay while I'm experimenting. Realistically, moving both to the SB for the 4th IoK and another removal spell is probably where I want to be. Also, realistically, I'm insane trying to play Jace with only 17 lands. That said, Jace has been great at winning against grindier decks. Maybe 1 MD stays. Maybe just 1 in the SB. Or maybe 0 in the 75. I'm not sure.
The Fulminator plan also has started stealing me wins against the grindier decks. Even if I don't mana screw them, the tempo gain is great. Especially when you can Fulminator them 3 turns in a row, which isn't hard in this shell. (In my last league I played against BBE Jund and Grixis Control w/ Jace, and I beat both on the back of Fulminator in all 4 postboard games. I did not draw Jace.) The idea is that it's hard to compete in a grindfest against them, so don't. Try to get under them and stay under them by disrupting their mana. Then maybe stick something grindy and hard to deal with like Jace or Hazoret.
The one thing I don't like about this shell is that it doesn't have the ability to chain together copies of a good card advantage creature through Traverse. I tried a variant of the BBE list at a weekly on Wed (in paper), and that aspect of the deck was insane. But sometimes the BBEs were just not that relevant (vs. dredge, and vs. bolt + tar pit out of Grixis Control), and hitting Bauble was really bad. Sometimes hitting Shadow would have been pretty bad too - you can't just go to 9 against Grixis Control! I think chaining BBEs w/ Traverse is really powerful though, but maybe not in a shadow shell. What I really want is something *like* BBE that preferably doesn't cost more than 3, and is not awful with countermagic. I'm not sure it exists.
Bedlam Reveler doesn't quite do it, but it is an option. Though I don't really want to have to play 2 red lands, and it's still bad with countermagic. However, off topic, but this did inspire me to brew up a Reveler Jund list that's basically the Mardu Pyromancer deck except we have Traverse too so we can just cast Bedlam Reveler every other turn of the game every game. Think about how they'll chain into each other - it seems absurd. I'm excited to unleash this on my local magic community next week.
Now that sounds spicy
The BBE / Traverse combo is something I have been playing with as well but, didn't consider the use of Bedlam Reveler. Also, that makes Grim Flayer a sweet 4 of in the deck if you don't want the Bob's.
Here is one of the decks that just 5-0'd, with me having so little experience with the deck, this is very close to what I had almost settled on for my list, with a lot of SB differences. Is this sort of where we want to be right now if not running BBE? It did 5-0 so there must be some merit to it
I am not a fan of running less than 3 Stubborn Denials. This deck will run into 1 spell just about every game you play where you will need it and I found that 3 is just the right number to get me to a Stub by t3-4.
Round 1 : RUG Through the Breach(featuring Jace), Lose 1-2
G1: Dirsuption via discard spells and having a massive Goyf. He fetches himself down to 5 to play Jace to bounce my 4/5 Goyf(and only threat) and hopefully search for his 5th land. I kill Jace with Bolt and re-play Goyf, that's now up to 5 thanks to Jace. He misses the 5th land, can't Through the Breach me and dies to the Goyf next turn.
G2: We grind and I make an aggressive attack with a Bloodbraid that leaves me dead if he rips double Bolt but leaves him dead in 2 attacks. He rips 2 Bolts.
G3. I keep a cantrip heavy 7 that draws into not a lot of action. Die to various Goyfs and Bolts as I don't cast a lot of actual spells that game.
Round 2: 5C Humans, Win 2-1
G1: I keep a fast Shadow hand and get 2 2/2 Shadows out on Turn 2. They grow to various sizes and he can never really get out from under the pressure they're providing.
G2: We grind for a while, but I take a bit to get some sizable threats on the board so I'm under pressure to a Mantis Rider. I'm dead to a 2nd Rider(whether it be an actual one or an Image) the turn before I can lethal him, and he finds/has it.
G3: He mulls to 6 and I Thoughtseize away his Turn 1 play followed by a Shadow on Turn 2. Some chains of Bloodbraid Elves into a Shadow and a Goyf later and he's down.
Round 3: Bant Company, Win 2-0
G1: He keeps a hand with no natural Blue mana but has a Hierarch. I Push the Hierarch and then set up a pretty sizable Goyf on Turn 2. He finds some Voices, but I get through them and the tokens and slam running Bloodbraid Elves.
G2: I keep a hand pretty similar to Game 1 and it goes about the same. He finds a Company, but hits only Voice and Hiearch, and I have 3 Bloodbraid Elves into Goyf and removal again.
Round 4: Classic Jund, Win 2-1
G1: He's stuck on 2 mana with no black for a a couple turns, but he has 2 Goyfs while I have a Goyf of my own and a small Shadow. He finds his black source(and 3rd land), we trade some resources, and he ends up drawing better than I do when we run to topdecks.
G2: I keep an interactive heavy hand with a Blood Moon in it(no discard of my own). He thoughtseizes the Moon and we just trade resources. I end up drawing the 2nd Moon, he takes a turn to tap out and jam a Goyf, I Decay the Goyf and then jam Blood Moon(already found my basics, he has a Swamp). We play "Mountain" pass for a while as he can't cast spells and I draw Dreadbores and Lightning Bolts. Eventually I find a Bloodbraid Elf, cascade into Delirious Traverse, find another Bloodbraid, Manamorphose for another Green, cast that Bloodbraid, and hit a Goyf. He dies the next turn.
G3: We trade spells and the game grinds. He has a Bob, Bloodbraid, and an already once dead Finks, I have a substantially large Shadow. He makes me discard my Big Game Hunter(Thoughtseize with it and Land in hand), I almost cast it forgetting its wording but realize before I do and let it fall to the graveyard. I draw well from that point on and chain Bloodbraid into spells while he draws a myriad of Bobs that quickly are turned to chump-block duty.
Thoughts:
Manamorphose felt really good. Even ignoring the Blood Moon nonsense it allows/allowed, it did a bit of mana fixing for me in my match against Humans to let me Push/Bolt on the same turn despite having my Forest in play, as well as a quick buff for the Goyf/Delirium when I had no Bolt or Push draw.
The one of Seal of Fire didn't really come up, and it's probably still not worth it over just a 3rd Bolt, but I'm quite interested in testing it a bit more at least.
Sideboard should've had a Magus of the Moon but I was unable to get one, so the Fulminator Mage was in, while worse than Magus obviously, was a good enough replacement with very little Tron in my area.
All in all, the deck still felt really good. While I'm not 100% sure Bloodbraid Elf is the best direction for the Jund-base list to go, I don't think it's a wrong one and I'm probably gonna continue jamming it for a while.
Ran the old shell recently just cutting LotV for Grim Flayer and another TBR. Went 4-0 at my local LGS. (8-0 in games) The 3rd TBR is what did it every time. I don’t think it’s repeatable but, casting two in a game won me 3 individual games. Also, cutting Lili made the deck feel so focused and that it was a full measure combo deck like poisonless infect. The matchups were Kiki, Jund, Temur BBE, Tron. Delay was a masterpiece and hitting Karn with Stubborn Denial was euphoric. All the practicing with this deck paid off and then further more I listen to Dead on Board and their guest was running the same deck with 2 cards different. He had 17 lands and 1 more Dismember which I really dig. That 2nd Grim Flayer was amazing and TBR on it to keep it alive just caught so many off guard. I couldn’t be happier with that deck. I also still like the idea of running 5 color and brining in the 8th land. Super clever on his part since the souls bring the curve up.
Ran the old shell recently just cutting LotV for Grim Flayer and another TBR. Went 4-0 at my local LGS. (8-0 in games) The 3rd TBR is what did it every time. I don’t think it’s repeatable but, casting two in a game won me 3 individual games. Also, cutting Lili made the deck feel so focused and that it was a full measure combo deck like poisonless infect. The matchups were Kiki, Jund, Temur BBE, Tron. Delay was a masterpiece and hitting Karn with Stubborn Denial was euphoric. All the practicing with this deck paid off and then further more I listen to Dead on Board and their guest was running the same deck with 2 cards different. He had 17 lands and 1 more Dismember which I really dig. That 2nd Grim Flayer was amazing and TBR on it to keep it alive just caught so many off guard. I couldn’t be happier with that deck. I also still like the idea of running 5 color and brining in the 8th land. Super clever on his part since the souls bring the curve up.
Here is the list that I ran and I am considering in dropping the Kozilek’s Return for an Engineered Explosives. I will drop Bloodstained Mire going down to 17 lands and go up 1 Dismember. I really like the idea of no 3 CMC spells in the deck until the Sideboard bringing a whole new meaning to a transformative sideboard. It is such a subtle innovation but, the main board is insane because of it.
I have not played the list yet, but hope to do so in the coming week. I listened to the podcast as well and it was very informative in my opinion. Do you have any thoughts on running Manamorphose? Part of me thinks it may have room somewhere in this style of deck, but I also feel that it may be a bit redundant as we all ready have ways to cantrip and setup draws.
Played this to a 6-1 finish in a Hareruya Cup yesterday. I'm still playing around with some things, especially the sideboard. Random thoughts:
Second Grim Flayer should probably just be a 4th Tarmogoyf, but I do really like Flayer. The selection is good, and Trample was relevant. But with Bauble, Seal, and Tarfire this deck's Goyfs get really big really fast, and Removal/Thoughtseize into Goyf-Goyf just murders people really quickly.
I liked the removal package. Slightly weak against really big creatures, but Shadow and 6/7 Tarmogoyf rumble with everything in Eldrazi and you can kill people before they ever get set up. Lightning Bolt killing all of Noble Hierarch, Dark Confidant, and Jace is excellent, and this deck is pretty aggressive so Bolt's go upstairs quite often.
With 4 drops and more and more Field of Ruin running around, three basics feels good. You generally still want to get shocks because of Shadow and the deep color requirements, but being able to get all three against Burn was great, and playing Bloodbraids on turn 4 and 5 against something like UWR without murdering your lifetotal is a big plus. Also, this deck uses the Lay of the Land mode on Traverse more than most Traverse decks, and keeping a one lander lets you go Overgrown Tomb to Traverse for Mountain, which casts everything in the deck except Flayer.
Collective Brutality is still the nuts against Burn, I might want more. Especially after going down to just 4 discard spells maindeck, have the extra Duresses in the board helps against both combo and control.
I didn't have a lot of use for Ancient Grudge all day but the card is still great. Used Cage against Company but never drew it. Jund and Golgari Charms are pretty versatile, they have seemed good but I could see moving to more powerful focused effects. I could also see an argument for a Rakdos Charm.
Traverse bullets were Magus, Fulminator, and Scavenging Ooze. Magus won a game outright against Tron. Might make sense to just play actual Blood Moons because Magus gets Bolted and Dismembered, but being able to Tutor for it is a significant plus. Fulminator Mages are great in a lot of matchups, Tron and Valakut are the obvious targets but I love them in Raving Ravine and Celestial Collonade matches. Ooze was great against that Soulflayer nonsense and I think it has enough general utility to be worth playing.
Matches:
Merfolk: 1-2
I think the pile of Lightning Bolts strategy is generally pretty good, but blocking was tough with Islandwalk and it often ends up being a race. I don't think this is a bad matchup, but my opponent was able to go Kira-Lord-Lord-Lord and take it. I was one more Bolt or one fetchland to Revolt a Fatal Push away from winning this matchup.
Green Tron: 2-1
I lost game one with lethal on board to a topdecked Tower into Ugin. #banurzastower
Game two the Magus in my opener won singlehandedly, and Game three I just punched them in the face really hard while they had natural tron but no payoff.
Grixis Soulflayer: 2-1
Soulflayer is basically the only card that worries me. If it has flying and hexproof I just die, but if I keep them off that all of their creatures are awful. G1 they topdecked flayer and flying-double striked me to death, game 2 Thoughtseize was great and they never got going, game three Scavenging Ooze was an allstar and racing was a breeze.
Boggles: 2-1
No LotV hurts, but outside of Grif's Boon and Spirit Mantle I can usually handle their dudes. Leyline in all three games was annoying, but my removal still found targets in Kor Spiritdancer and a timely Abrupt Decay to blow out some Daybreak Coronets kept me in control.
Junk Company: 2-0
Kitchen Finks was annoying but Goyf outsized everything, Flayer's trample was excellent, and BBE into Lightning Bolt over and over was excellent.
UWR Control: 2-1
Bloodbraid was the unsurprising all-star here. They really taxed their removal and counters. I dropped a game when Jace came down, Brainstormed into Snapcaster and Path, and then lived to take over the game, but BBE offering both speed and card advantage was excellent. The look on my opponents face when I Traversed for two copies of BBE on turn 3 basically tells the whole story about they feel about that card. They were also playing Spell Queller, and Lightning Bolt just murders that plan.
Burn: 2-0
Tarmogoyf, three basics, and timely Kolaghan's Commands and Collective Brutalities took down the match. G1 was a sweat, as I had an unusable Street Wraith in hand from turn 1 and was dead to a topdecked Bolt on the last turn, but was able to pull it out. Fully escalated Brutality in game two left him him close to helpless and I cruised from there.
Good for 6-1 and Top 8, where I got rekt by Burn. She had the play game one and started on Guide. I killed it but then got hit with Eidolon and a flurry of Bolts. The mana base was basically cooperating, but Goyf couldn't play both offense and defense so a race was just never going to end in my favor. Game two Rest in Peace turned off Traverse, then I flooded out pretty badly. BBE into Bolt kept me afloat but she stopped on 2~3 lands and just had a pile of Boros Charms and Helixes. Ideally I would obviously liked more Brutalities but I liked my sideboarding in general (though after the fact I realized I should possibly be playing Golgari Charm because RiP and Eidolon probably represent enough targets) and I don't think I made any big misplays. Sometimes they just have it.
Overall, the deck was a blast to play and I think there is definitely something to this build or something similar. If there are a lot of unfair decks running around then switching back to Stubborn Denial and Battle Rage could prove better, but this deck has power, speed, and a really nice mana base.
List looks great geneyquakes. With 19 lands did multiple BBEs ever get stuck in your hand?
Any thoughts on dropping a land and a BBE and adding 2 more relevant spells? (Maybe TBR) I could see also going down to 2 K Commands and adding a 3rd cheaper spell.
It would go back to the 18 lands plan (which has always felt like borderline too many) and gives you 1 less clunky spell to get caught in hand.
If you're playing BBE I think you have to either play 19 lands or play 18 and 4 manamorphose.
Spooly has made his opinion on manamorphose pretty clear, and I tend to agree with him.
The manamorphose isn't all upside though, and clearly the deck still works without them. So we will have to keep testing that.
But in general, I think you have to have the extra land when you're playing the 4 drops. It's okay, they make up for spell density, for sure. Haha.
@whocansay- it's possible that TBR is just so powerful that it's still worth including in the 75. The deck hasn't really been figured out enough yet to know. TBR is only a nonbo with BBE if it is the only creature you have. If you play goyf on turn 2, you're likely setting up a near lethal attack on turn 4 with TBR.
Sidenote:
BBE is way too much fun to play in paper, I feel like I've developed a mild a gambling addiction...
I have not played the list yet, but hope to do so in the coming week. I listened to the podcast as well and it was very informative in my opinion. Do you have any thoughts on running Manamorphose? Part of me thinks it may have room somewhere in this style of deck, but I also feel that it may be a bit redundant as we all ready have ways to cantrip and setup draws.
I am on the fence with Manamorphose. I would rather the have the card I need over the filtering and randomness of drawing an additional card. Plus, I like trimming down to 17 lands. If I did try a MM shell I would trim to 16 lands and try to make the deck as skinny as possible. We will see though, I have a Tuesday night Modern League so, I will post results if I make it tomorrow.
Is it really worth lowering life total, playing a bunch of cantrips/cards that interact badly with BBE, just to have traverse + shadow, with no TBR? TBR is what makes traverse shadow a good deck in this format, IMO. If shadow ever got out of hand, I think TBR is the card they could ban to neuter the deck. You can configure the deck to attack from multiple axis; hand disruption, removal, counterspells, etc, but TBR gives the deck the combo finish it needs in practically every single non-midrange matchup. How can you win consistently with this deck in modern, without TBR? BBE is a great card, I'm still not convinced it belongs alongside death's shadow/traverse.
List looks great geneyquakes. With 19 lands did multiple BBEs ever get stuck in your hand?
Any thoughts on dropping a land and a BBE and adding 2 more relevant spells? (Maybe TBR) I could see also going down to 2 K Commands and adding a 3rd cheaper spell.
It would go back to the 18 lands plan (which has always felt like borderline too many) and gives you 1 less clunky spell to get caught in hand.
There were certainly times when I didn't cast it right on time on turn 4, but I haven't really felt like they clogged up the hand. You have to adjust how you play compared to other builds. You get lands with Traverse more often. Also, whereas you would often shuffle away a third land on a turn one Bauble Scry in a normal hand, you are more likely to keep it especially with BBE or Command in hand. I do think that trimming to 3 BBE is worth thinking about, but once you have 4 mana it is just he best card in the deck. You want to draw it every turn, and you search for it with every Traverse.
That looks awesome. Did you ever miss TBR or is the non-bo with BBE too much to even consider bringing it in?
It can be a nonbo, but it is definitely powerful enough to consider. Bauble is the worst Cascade hit, but its not too bad because it is still an extra card. It is obviously worse than a Goyf or Command but it is not like cascading into a counterspell or an x-spell. TBR in the main would represent a Cascade hit that does literally nothing if you don't have a creature. I'm not sure I like that but it could also just represent enough speed and power that it is fine. There are also 2 Dreadbore and 2 Fatal Push in the main, along with 4 Thoughtseize, so it is not as if BBE having less than a 100 percent certain hit rate is completely unacceptable. You want to dodge it, but there is at least some wiggle room.
I certainly did want TBR in a few spots. I actually played the deck almost unchanged yesterday with a Ghor-Clan Rampager in place of the second Flayer. This isn't quite the same thing but it might be a reasonable middle ground. I also think that there is merit to having 2 or 3 copies of TBR in the side. Against removal heavy decks where your turn two Goyf often dies, you probably don't want TBR anyway. Against Affinity, Storm, Tron, Valakut and the like - matches where you very much want Battle Rage - your turn two and three creatures are much more likely to be alive when elf flips over a TBR on turn 4, and this will quite often represent lethal.
If you're playing BBE I think you have to either play 19 lands or play 18 and 4 manamorphose.
@whocansay- it's possible that TBR is just so powerful that it's still worth including in the 75. The deck hasn't really been figured out enough yet to know. TBR is only a nonbo with BBE if it is the only creature you have. If you play goyf on turn 2, you're likely setting up a near lethal attack on turn 4 with TBR.
Sidenote:
BBE is way too much fun to play in paper, I feel like I've developed a mild a gambling addiction...
Is it really worth lowering life total, playing a bunch of cantrips/cards that interact badly with BBE, just to have traverse + shadow, with no TBR? TBR is what makes traverse shadow a good deck in this format, IMO. If shadow ever got out of hand, I think TBR is the card they could ban to neuter the deck. You can configure the deck to attack from multiple axis; hand disruption, removal, counterspells, etc, but TBR gives the deck the combo finish it needs in practically every single non-midrange matchup. How can you win consistently with this deck in modern, without TBR? BBE is a great card, I'm still not convinced it belongs alongside death's shadow/traverse.
I agree with a lot of this, but I have a few points I would like to point out. I have TBRed plenty of people in my day and I understand how good it is, but I don't think you automatically need to it for Death's Shadow to be a good threat.
I think my lines of thinking in making deckbuilding decisions vary from what you are talking about. This is hard to explain clearly, but I will give it a whirl. For starters, this isn't built as a Death's Shadow deck, it is built as a Traverse the Ulvenwald deck, and in reality Shadow is the tertiary threat. The central threat is actually Tarmogoyf (I will digress a moment and point out that I realize the list I posted only had 3 and that might make me look like an idiot), and the top end payoff - and what basically every Traverse tutors for turn 3 or later - is Bloodbraid Elf. Normal Traverse Shadow and Grixis Shadow certainly make deckbuilding decisions (Baubles, Thought Scours, etc) to match their engine cards and secondary threats, but at the end of the day they are Death's Shadow decks at their core. This deck is different. My top priorities are Traverse, Tarmogoyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. I want my Goyfs XXL, and I want Traverse consistently turned on. The super obvious addition here is Bauble, but the sneaky secondary enabler is Street Wraith. It looks like a Shadow enabler, and of course it is, but that is not its only job. The next piece of the puzzle is Thoughtseize. It is still the best card in Modern, and in particular it is the best turn 1 play in modern. For our Traverse/Goyf plan, I want Street Wraith, I want Thoughtseize, and I want fetchlands and shocklands for the color-hungry manabase. If I am already here, it is a very short leap to make to get to Shadow. I want it as a 1 mana 4/4 or 5/5 that only gets better later in the game. It doesn't need to single-handedly carry the deck, but it is big and costs one mana. Playing Street Wraith just for Traverse is probably too much, but the fact that it lets you play another premium efficient threat next to Goyf makes it worth it.
You mentioned that there are cards that interact badly with BBE, but I just don't think that is as serious of an issue as you make it sound. Worst hit is easily Bauble, but it is still a card and not just a whiff. Nothing else is bad unless your removal spells are blank, but that doesn't stop Jund from playing Fatal Push, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse so I don't think it is a non-starter here either.
I also want to make clear that I don't necessarily think that this build is just clearly better than traditional Dark Confidant/Liliana Jund or 4 color Traverse Shadow. It is possible that I am right to play Tarmogoyf and BBE, but that not including Bob, Lili, and Raging Ravine is a mistake. I could also be right to play Shadow and Traverse, but that not including Stubborn Denial and Temur Battle Rage is a mistake. (I think this would be particularly true if the format is just completely overrun with unfair and uninteractive decks, and your mileage may vary but I don't see that to be the case right now.)
What I do know is that it is worth trying. The card advantage and board presence that Bloodbraid Elf creates is a tool that Shadow is often lacking. Thoughtseize and Stubborn Denial go a long way in protecting our plan, but Shadow is often just one Path to Exile or Supreme Verdict from getting buried. BBE does a lot in these matchups. This deck has more closing speed than normal Jund against things like Tron, and Traverse opens up some interesting sideboard options as well.
I am 9-2 in matches over the last two days with this. It doesn't mean it is perfect but there are good ideas here that are worth playing with.
Give her a try. I thought the deck looked unplayable with a 4of 4 drop, but it has seriously impressed me so far. The deck definitely plays differently than it did before, but it's not lacking in power.
I'm still pushing for the deck to be renamed Smash Mouth All Star.
Because once the BBEs start coming, they don't stop coming, they don't stop coming.
Give her a try. I thought the deck looked unplayable with a 4of 4 drop, but it has seriously impressed me so far. The deck definitely plays differently than it did before, but it's not lacking in power.
I'm still pushing for the deck to be renamed Smash Mouth All Star.
Because once the BBEs start coming, they don't stop coming, they don't stop coming.
Have we tried a brew using Evoke creatures to emulate effects that we want but dodged the cascade to narrow our hits on cascade?
For example: Shriekmaw dodges cascade but offers unique utility to our game plan and it’s easier to cast than Terminate. I do think the deck would completely change and would shift to a Jund Aggro variant drop DS altogether. I will whip up a list for what I have in mind and try to post a 60 today.
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That sounds like all the fun in the world
Here is one of the decks that just 5-0'd, with me having so little experience with the deck, this is very close to what I had almost settled on for my list, with a lot of SB differences. Is this sort of where we want to be right now if not running BBE? It did 5-0 so there must be some merit to it
4 Death's Shadow
1 Grim Flayer
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Sorcery (11)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Instant (13)
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
3 Fatal Push
2 Manamorphose
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Mishra's Bauble
Land (18)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Fatal Push
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Collective Brutality
1 Delay
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Duress
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
"If it was easy, everyone would do it."
This is what I ran through my last league:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Street Wraith
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Manamorphose
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
3 Fatal Push
2 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Delay
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Hazoret, the Fervent
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Radiant Flames
I've run variants of this through 4 leagues, and have 3 4-1s and a 2-3. I'm not convinced Jace should be MD, but that's where he'll stay while I'm experimenting. Realistically, moving both to the SB for the 4th IoK and another removal spell is probably where I want to be. Also, realistically, I'm insane trying to play Jace with only 17 lands. That said, Jace has been great at winning against grindier decks. Maybe 1 MD stays. Maybe just 1 in the SB. Or maybe 0 in the 75. I'm not sure.
The Fulminator plan also has started stealing me wins against the grindier decks. Even if I don't mana screw them, the tempo gain is great. Especially when you can Fulminator them 3 turns in a row, which isn't hard in this shell. (In my last league I played against BBE Jund and Grixis Control w/ Jace, and I beat both on the back of Fulminator in all 4 postboard games. I did not draw Jace.) The idea is that it's hard to compete in a grindfest against them, so don't. Try to get under them and stay under them by disrupting their mana. Then maybe stick something grindy and hard to deal with like Jace or Hazoret.
The one thing I don't like about this shell is that it doesn't have the ability to chain together copies of a good card advantage creature through Traverse. I tried a variant of the BBE list at a weekly on Wed (in paper), and that aspect of the deck was insane. But sometimes the BBEs were just not that relevant (vs. dredge, and vs. bolt + tar pit out of Grixis Control), and hitting Bauble was really bad. Sometimes hitting Shadow would have been pretty bad too - you can't just go to 9 against Grixis Control! I think chaining BBEs w/ Traverse is really powerful though, but maybe not in a shadow shell. What I really want is something *like* BBE that preferably doesn't cost more than 3, and is not awful with countermagic. I'm not sure it exists.
Bedlam Reveler doesn't quite do it, but it is an option. Though I don't really want to have to play 2 red lands, and it's still bad with countermagic. However, off topic, but this did inspire me to brew up a Reveler Jund list that's basically the Mardu Pyromancer deck except we have Traverse too so we can just cast Bedlam Reveler every other turn of the game every game. Think about how they'll chain into each other - it seems absurd. I'm excited to unleash this on my local magic community next week.
Now that sounds spicy
The BBE / Traverse combo is something I have been playing with as well but, didn't consider the use of Bedlam Reveler. Also, that makes Grim Flayer a sweet 4 of in the deck if you don't want the Bob's.
4 Death's Shadow
1 Grim Flayer
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Sorcery (11)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Instant (13)
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
3 Fatal Push
2 Manamorphose
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Mishra's Bauble
Land (18)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Fatal Push
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Collective Brutality
1 Delay
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Duress
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
I am not a fan of running less than 3 Stubborn Denials. This deck will run into 1 spell just about every game you play where you will need it and I found that 3 is just the right number to get me to a Stub by t3-4.
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Cyclers
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Street Wraith
4 Manamorphose
Other Stuff
2 Fatal Push
2 Dreadbore
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Seal of Fire
4 Thoughtseize
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Golgari Charm
2 Blood Moon
4 Collective Brutality
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Fulminator Mage
2 Fatal Push
Match-ups were as follows
Round 1 : RUG Through the Breach(featuring Jace), Lose 1-2
G1: Dirsuption via discard spells and having a massive Goyf. He fetches himself down to 5 to play Jace to bounce my 4/5 Goyf(and only threat) and hopefully search for his 5th land. I kill Jace with Bolt and re-play Goyf, that's now up to 5 thanks to Jace. He misses the 5th land, can't Through the Breach me and dies to the Goyf next turn.
G2: We grind and I make an aggressive attack with a Bloodbraid that leaves me dead if he rips double Bolt but leaves him dead in 2 attacks. He rips 2 Bolts.
G3. I keep a cantrip heavy 7 that draws into not a lot of action. Die to various Goyfs and Bolts as I don't cast a lot of actual spells that game.
Round 2: 5C Humans, Win 2-1
G1: I keep a fast Shadow hand and get 2 2/2 Shadows out on Turn 2. They grow to various sizes and he can never really get out from under the pressure they're providing.
G2: We grind for a while, but I take a bit to get some sizable threats on the board so I'm under pressure to a Mantis Rider. I'm dead to a 2nd Rider(whether it be an actual one or an Image) the turn before I can lethal him, and he finds/has it.
G3: He mulls to 6 and I Thoughtseize away his Turn 1 play followed by a Shadow on Turn 2. Some chains of Bloodbraid Elves into a Shadow and a Goyf later and he's down.
Round 3: Bant Company, Win 2-0
G1: He keeps a hand with no natural Blue mana but has a Hierarch. I Push the Hierarch and then set up a pretty sizable Goyf on Turn 2. He finds some Voices, but I get through them and the tokens and slam running Bloodbraid Elves.
G2: I keep a hand pretty similar to Game 1 and it goes about the same. He finds a Company, but hits only Voice and Hiearch, and I have 3 Bloodbraid Elves into Goyf and removal again.
Round 4: Classic Jund, Win 2-1
G1: He's stuck on 2 mana with no black for a a couple turns, but he has 2 Goyfs while I have a Goyf of my own and a small Shadow. He finds his black source(and 3rd land), we trade some resources, and he ends up drawing better than I do when we run to topdecks.
G2: I keep an interactive heavy hand with a Blood Moon in it(no discard of my own). He thoughtseizes the Moon and we just trade resources. I end up drawing the 2nd Moon, he takes a turn to tap out and jam a Goyf, I Decay the Goyf and then jam Blood Moon(already found my basics, he has a Swamp). We play "Mountain" pass for a while as he can't cast spells and I draw Dreadbores and Lightning Bolts. Eventually I find a Bloodbraid Elf, cascade into Delirious Traverse, find another Bloodbraid, Manamorphose for another Green, cast that Bloodbraid, and hit a Goyf. He dies the next turn.
G3: We trade spells and the game grinds. He has a Bob, Bloodbraid, and an already once dead Finks, I have a substantially large Shadow. He makes me discard my Big Game Hunter(Thoughtseize with it and Land in hand), I almost cast it forgetting its wording but realize before I do and let it fall to the graveyard. I draw well from that point on and chain Bloodbraid into spells while he draws a myriad of Bobs that quickly are turned to chump-block duty.
Thoughts:
Manamorphose felt really good. Even ignoring the Blood Moon nonsense it allows/allowed, it did a bit of mana fixing for me in my match against Humans to let me Push/Bolt on the same turn despite having my Forest in play, as well as a quick buff for the Goyf/Delirium when I had no Bolt or Push draw.
The one of Seal of Fire didn't really come up, and it's probably still not worth it over just a 3rd Bolt, but I'm quite interested in testing it a bit more at least.
Sideboard should've had a Magus of the Moon but I was unable to get one, so the Fulminator Mage was in, while worse than Magus obviously, was a good enough replacement with very little Tron in my area.
All in all, the deck still felt really good. While I'm not 100% sure Bloodbraid Elf is the best direction for the Jund-base list to go, I don't think it's a wrong one and I'm probably gonna continue jamming it for a while.
Here is the list that I ran and I am considering in dropping the Kozilek’s Return for an Engineered Explosives. I will drop Bloodstained Mire going down to 17 lands and go up 1 Dismember. I really like the idea of no 3 CMC spells in the deck until the Sideboard bringing a whole new meaning to a transformative sideboard. It is such a subtle innovation but, the main board is insane because of it.
4 Death's Shadow
2 Grim Flayer
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Lands
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
4 Mishra's Bauble
Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
3 Fatal Push
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Temur Battle Rage
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Delay
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
1 Kozilek’s Return
1 Godless Shrine
1 Fatal Push
1 Duress
BGWAbzanBGW
GBGB RockGB
BGRJundBGR
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Creatures
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Flayer
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
2 Dreadbore
1 Seal of Fire
1 Tarfire
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Golgari Charm
1 Jund Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Played this to a 6-1 finish in a Hareruya Cup yesterday. I'm still playing around with some things, especially the sideboard. Random thoughts:
Matches:
Merfolk: 1-2
I think the pile of Lightning Bolts strategy is generally pretty good, but blocking was tough with Islandwalk and it often ends up being a race. I don't think this is a bad matchup, but my opponent was able to go Kira-Lord-Lord-Lord and take it. I was one more Bolt or one fetchland to Revolt a Fatal Push away from winning this matchup.
Green Tron: 2-1
I lost game one with lethal on board to a topdecked Tower into Ugin. #banurzastower
Game two the Magus in my opener won singlehandedly, and Game three I just punched them in the face really hard while they had natural tron but no payoff.
Grixis Soulflayer: 2-1
Soulflayer is basically the only card that worries me. If it has flying and hexproof I just die, but if I keep them off that all of their creatures are awful. G1 they topdecked flayer and flying-double striked me to death, game 2 Thoughtseize was great and they never got going, game three Scavenging Ooze was an allstar and racing was a breeze.
Boggles: 2-1
No LotV hurts, but outside of Grif's Boon and Spirit Mantle I can usually handle their dudes. Leyline in all three games was annoying, but my removal still found targets in Kor Spiritdancer and a timely Abrupt Decay to blow out some Daybreak Coronets kept me in control.
Junk Company: 2-0
Kitchen Finks was annoying but Goyf outsized everything, Flayer's trample was excellent, and BBE into Lightning Bolt over and over was excellent.
UWR Control: 2-1
Bloodbraid was the unsurprising all-star here. They really taxed their removal and counters. I dropped a game when Jace came down, Brainstormed into Snapcaster and Path, and then lived to take over the game, but BBE offering both speed and card advantage was excellent. The look on my opponents face when I Traversed for two copies of BBE on turn 3 basically tells the whole story about they feel about that card. They were also playing Spell Queller, and Lightning Bolt just murders that plan.
Burn: 2-0
Tarmogoyf, three basics, and timely Kolaghan's Commands and Collective Brutalities took down the match. G1 was a sweat, as I had an unusable Street Wraith in hand from turn 1 and was dead to a topdecked Bolt on the last turn, but was able to pull it out. Fully escalated Brutality in game two left him him close to helpless and I cruised from there.
Good for 6-1 and Top 8, where I got rekt by Burn. She had the play game one and started on Guide. I killed it but then got hit with Eidolon and a flurry of Bolts. The mana base was basically cooperating, but Goyf couldn't play both offense and defense so a race was just never going to end in my favor. Game two Rest in Peace turned off Traverse, then I flooded out pretty badly. BBE into Bolt kept me afloat but she stopped on 2~3 lands and just had a pile of Boros Charms and Helixes. Ideally I would obviously liked more Brutalities but I liked my sideboarding in general (though after the fact I realized I should possibly be playing Golgari Charm because RiP and Eidolon probably represent enough targets) and I don't think I made any big misplays. Sometimes they just have it.
Overall, the deck was a blast to play and I think there is definitely something to this build or something similar. If there are a lot of unfair decks running around then switching back to Stubborn Denial and Battle Rage could prove better, but this deck has power, speed, and a really nice mana base.
Any thoughts on dropping a land and a BBE and adding 2 more relevant spells? (Maybe TBR) I could see also going down to 2 K Commands and adding a 3rd cheaper spell.
It would go back to the 18 lands plan (which has always felt like borderline too many) and gives you 1 less clunky spell to get caught in hand.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Spooly has made his opinion on manamorphose pretty clear, and I tend to agree with him.
The manamorphose isn't all upside though, and clearly the deck still works without them. So we will have to keep testing that.
But in general, I think you have to have the extra land when you're playing the 4 drops. It's okay, they make up for spell density, for sure. Haha.
@whocansay- it's possible that TBR is just so powerful that it's still worth including in the 75. The deck hasn't really been figured out enough yet to know. TBR is only a nonbo with BBE if it is the only creature you have. If you play goyf on turn 2, you're likely setting up a near lethal attack on turn 4 with TBR.
Sidenote:
BBE is way too much fun to play in paper, I feel like I've developed a mild a gambling addiction...
I am on the fence with Manamorphose. I would rather the have the card I need over the filtering and randomness of drawing an additional card. Plus, I like trimming down to 17 lands. If I did try a MM shell I would trim to 16 lands and try to make the deck as skinny as possible. We will see though, I have a Tuesday night Modern League so, I will post results if I make it tomorrow.
There were certainly times when I didn't cast it right on time on turn 4, but I haven't really felt like they clogged up the hand. You have to adjust how you play compared to other builds. You get lands with Traverse more often. Also, whereas you would often shuffle away a third land on a turn one Bauble Scry in a normal hand, you are more likely to keep it especially with BBE or Command in hand. I do think that trimming to 3 BBE is worth thinking about, but once you have 4 mana it is just he best card in the deck. You want to draw it every turn, and you search for it with every Traverse.
It can be a nonbo, but it is definitely powerful enough to consider. Bauble is the worst Cascade hit, but its not too bad because it is still an extra card. It is obviously worse than a Goyf or Command but it is not like cascading into a counterspell or an x-spell. TBR in the main would represent a Cascade hit that does literally nothing if you don't have a creature. I'm not sure I like that but it could also just represent enough speed and power that it is fine. There are also 2 Dreadbore and 2 Fatal Push in the main, along with 4 Thoughtseize, so it is not as if BBE having less than a 100 percent certain hit rate is completely unacceptable. You want to dodge it, but there is at least some wiggle room.
I certainly did want TBR in a few spots. I actually played the deck almost unchanged yesterday with a Ghor-Clan Rampager in place of the second Flayer. This isn't quite the same thing but it might be a reasonable middle ground. I also think that there is merit to having 2 or 3 copies of TBR in the side. Against removal heavy decks where your turn two Goyf often dies, you probably don't want TBR anyway. Against Affinity, Storm, Tron, Valakut and the like - matches where you very much want Battle Rage - your turn two and three creatures are much more likely to be alive when elf flips over a TBR on turn 4, and this will quite often represent lethal.
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Super Agree
I agree with a lot of this, but I have a few points I would like to point out. I have TBRed plenty of people in my day and I understand how good it is, but I don't think you automatically need to it for Death's Shadow to be a good threat.
I think my lines of thinking in making deckbuilding decisions vary from what you are talking about. This is hard to explain clearly, but I will give it a whirl. For starters, this isn't built as a Death's Shadow deck, it is built as a Traverse the Ulvenwald deck, and in reality Shadow is the tertiary threat. The central threat is actually Tarmogoyf (I will digress a moment and point out that I realize the list I posted only had 3 and that might make me look like an idiot), and the top end payoff - and what basically every Traverse tutors for turn 3 or later - is Bloodbraid Elf. Normal Traverse Shadow and Grixis Shadow certainly make deckbuilding decisions (Baubles, Thought Scours, etc) to match their engine cards and secondary threats, but at the end of the day they are Death's Shadow decks at their core. This deck is different. My top priorities are Traverse, Tarmogoyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. I want my Goyfs XXL, and I want Traverse consistently turned on. The super obvious addition here is Bauble, but the sneaky secondary enabler is Street Wraith. It looks like a Shadow enabler, and of course it is, but that is not its only job. The next piece of the puzzle is Thoughtseize. It is still the best card in Modern, and in particular it is the best turn 1 play in modern. For our Traverse/Goyf plan, I want Street Wraith, I want Thoughtseize, and I want fetchlands and shocklands for the color-hungry manabase. If I am already here, it is a very short leap to make to get to Shadow. I want it as a 1 mana 4/4 or 5/5 that only gets better later in the game. It doesn't need to single-handedly carry the deck, but it is big and costs one mana. Playing Street Wraith just for Traverse is probably too much, but the fact that it lets you play another premium efficient threat next to Goyf makes it worth it.
You mentioned that there are cards that interact badly with BBE, but I just don't think that is as serious of an issue as you make it sound. Worst hit is easily Bauble, but it is still a card and not just a whiff. Nothing else is bad unless your removal spells are blank, but that doesn't stop Jund from playing Fatal Push, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse so I don't think it is a non-starter here either.
I also want to make clear that I don't necessarily think that this build is just clearly better than traditional Dark Confidant/Liliana Jund or 4 color Traverse Shadow. It is possible that I am right to play Tarmogoyf and BBE, but that not including Bob, Lili, and Raging Ravine is a mistake. I could also be right to play Shadow and Traverse, but that not including Stubborn Denial and Temur Battle Rage is a mistake. (I think this would be particularly true if the format is just completely overrun with unfair and uninteractive decks, and your mileage may vary but I don't see that to be the case right now.)
What I do know is that it is worth trying. The card advantage and board presence that Bloodbraid Elf creates is a tool that Shadow is often lacking. Thoughtseize and Stubborn Denial go a long way in protecting our plan, but Shadow is often just one Path to Exile or Supreme Verdict from getting buried. BBE does a lot in these matchups. This deck has more closing speed than normal Jund against things like Tron, and Traverse opens up some interesting sideboard options as well.
I am 9-2 in matches over the last two days with this. It doesn't mean it is perfect but there are good ideas here that are worth playing with.
I'm still pushing for the deck to be renamed Smash Mouth All Star.
Because once the BBEs start coming, they don't stop coming, they don't stop coming.
Good against midrange, good against control.
My only question is: 4kcommand MD or 3kcommand + 1TBR?
I wonder if in this build we need TBR MD.
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Have we tried a brew using Evoke creatures to emulate effects that we want but dodged the cascade to narrow our hits on cascade?
For example: Shriekmaw dodges cascade but offers unique utility to our game plan and it’s easier to cast than Terminate. I do think the deck would completely change and would shift to a Jund Aggro variant drop DS altogether. I will whip up a list for what I have in mind and try to post a 60 today.