I don't think Worship is good for the deck. I think it's good in matches we're already favored in and I feel like eldrazi will just take it out of your hand with thoughtknot more often than not.
Right now, I'm testing both. Trying to see if the white really outweighs the consistency in pure jund. If you're running anger in the white splash, the mana can be awkward.
How about Radiant flames instead of anger in the white lists? you lose the exile clause but it's a great sweeper and seem easier to cast.
Is it worth the extra mana compared to Pyroclasm ?
There is also Firespout which may be easier to use than Radiant Flames as it requires 2 colors rather than 3.
I've been thinking about narnam renegade or gnarlwood dryad for early pressure. At worse, they have deathtouch to trade up. The dryad is also pretty much nacatl in our deck.
Little surprised by that but I think it's cause of "local meta" being very aggro heavy. I see little to no control/Midrange decks/Grindy decks so it was a good meta call by the locals. I still think if your expecting those kinds of decks the white splash is very important.
I was pretty convinced between Michael Majors performance and Jerrys articles on Starcity that the white isn't needed. The deck is crazy powerful, while this deck is legal traditional Jund is nearly worse in every way and only played by stubborn players or players who love Jund but knowingly forgo an edge to winning
Went to a ~60 person tournament yesterday with the deck (white splash) and didn't do so great :(, missed my win & in for top8
Round 1 grixis control. Loss
Win first game easily.
Second game, was forced to keep a hand with no discard but a couple of threats. Got myself into a good spot but a ripped damnation off the top crushed me.
Third game, made a misplay (this is the story of the day, really) and threw away a death's shadow by making an incorrect attack.
1-2
Round 2 Zoo, win
Won two quick games with a couple of fatal pushes, a tarfire and a threat. Nothing really to say here...
Round 3 grixis delver, win
Again 2 quick games. A discard spell followed by a fatal push was enough to let a single goyf go the distance in both games. It's simple "jund 'em out".
Round 4 death & taxes, win
Two quick games. A deck full if tarfire and fatal push makes this relatively easy. I could have won with a 2/2 zombie in these games, it was straightforward.
At this point I'm 3-1 and a win in my next round secures me for top8 (if I draw in the final round).
Round 5 tron, loss
Game 1, turn 1 thoughtseize away an o-stone and see not much going on besides 2 tron lands. Get on the beatdown but opponent gets natural tron into Ugin to just crush me instantly. Feels bad.
Game 2 (get this!) opening hand of 2x fulminator mage, 1x surgical extraction, 3 lands and a bauble. Decide that this is enough on the play, with a couple of draws, to get going. Opponent plays turn 1 relic of progenitus with a tower. I durdle. Opponent plays a SECOND tower (this is where it started to fall apart) and passes. Turn 3 I play my first fulminator but don't have a decent target so leave it on the battlefield. He plays sanctum of Ugin & fetches a mine off a map. Still no decent targets & he's leaving 1 mana up for relic to counter my surgical extraction. I finally draw a goyf but decide to play out my second fulminator. My misplay here is that I decided to sac both fulminators and remove both towers, to set him back two land drops and keep him completely off tron. Meanwhile I've got a useless traverse, a 0/1 goyf and no real pressure. My opponent has Ugin and Karn in hand. My opponent ruthlessly (and correctly) kept 1 mana up for his relic the whole time, so I had no chance to extract his towers. When he started exiling his own towers from his yard, I saw the writing on the wall. He naturally drew the remaining tron lands off the top, including his final tower(!!!) after I ghost quartered his third one. He drew everything he needed card after card. I meanwhile drew the goyf half of my deck and a maelstrom pulse, which didn't really do anything. Goyfs were never bigger than 1/2s the whole game. Looking back I recognise that there were three critical misplays I made during the game. 1 was going for the towers and not waiting for him to play his second tron piece. 2 was not traversing for a death's shadow and instead choosing to get a ghost quarter. 3 was not playing the goyf earlier; it might have forced him to crack his relic. I believe I had the tools to win this second game but fluffed it up.
At this point I was out of top8 contention and felt kind of salty, and proceeded to misplay my way out of the 6th round as well, against dredge.
So I went from being in a win&in to finishing 3-3 overall which is pretty bad.
One thing I learnt; this deck is REALLY HARD to play optimally. Maybe the hardest I've played ever (harder than normal jund). There are so many subtle choices that mean big consequences later in the game. My main opponent was misplays.
Another thing I learnt; when the deck wins, it just "junds 'em out". The deck isn't explicitly broken, it just plays discard into a threat and gets there. Often, the threat could be literally anything, but sometimes the size of your threats makes a difference.
Another thing I learnt; boarded in lingering souls a bunch of times and most of the time it just felt like having blockers & delaying the inevitable. Going to try straight jund from now on.
Final thought; the deck needs more graveyard hate (spellbomb) and some way to remove 5-toughness creatures (terminate or dismember)
Felt like I didn't do the deck justice, honestly. Haven't felt that way for a while so I need lots more practice. Get that muscle memory and instinct going because at the moment I'm having to over-think everything.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
What are this decks best and worst matchups in the current meta? Haven't played in 6 months or so and trying to get back into modern.
We don't have many bad match-ups actually, most of our "Bad Match-ups" are very close as in 45/55 in thier favour But I'll try to list off which match ups are good and which are bad. If you have questions why, I'll answer it in a different post.
Good Match-ups: Jund, Burn,(Very Tricky Match-up, really depends on the Pilots skill) Tron/Eldrazi Tron, Any Scapeshift/Titan Deck, Infect, Puresteel Paladin, Goryo's Vengance/Bird Brain.
Bad Match-ups: Grixis control/Delver, Abzan, Storm, Ad Nauesum, Revolt Zoo, Elves/Merfolk(Really Depends on how wide they are able to go, I consider them a bad match-up because like Zoo they are able to go wide fast, and Unless we see 2 or 3 cards of disruption followed up by a large threat, they can stall the game out and wait to draw into a win-con.)
If I am forgetting anything feel free to point it out. Made this list quickly at work!
I'm doing some more primer updating today, will also be adding this core list written by Jonny_Tempel. Please quote me if you wish to add any additional content to the primer, and i'll put it in for you :3
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CRUGGCCCCCCCGBGBGBCCCCCCCBBUWC MODERN – LANTERN(aka Fateseal or Barbershop) Primer–Subreddit–Facebook–Decklist–Gameplay Thnkr's Content:Gameplay–Datasheet Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow. CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
In my experience Jund is not a good matchup. A well tuned Jund list has the advantage over us I think. Not by much, but still.
On another note, why do people think the white splash decreases consistancy that much? In my experience, it did not hurt the deck very much, and getting to play Lingering Souls feels very good I must say, I think having the ability to go wide here is definitely worth something.
What are this decks best and worst matchups in the current meta? Haven't played in 6 months or so and trying to get back into modern.
We don't have many bad match-ups actually, most of our "Bad Match-ups" are very close as in 45/55 in thier favour But I'll try to list off which match ups are good and which are bad. If you have questions why, I'll answer it in a different post.
Good Match-ups: Jund, Burn,(Very Tricky Match-up, really depends on the Pilots skill) Tron/Eldrazi Tron, Any Scapeshift/Titan Deck, Infect, Puresteel Paladin, Goryo's Vengance/Bird Brain.
Bad Match-ups: Grixis control/Delver, Abzan, Storm, Ad Nauesum, Revolt Zoo, Elves/Merfolk(Really Depends on how wide they are able to go, I consider them a bad match-up because like Zoo they are able to go wide fast, and Unless we see 2 or 3 cards of disruption followed up by a large threat, they can stall the game out and wait to draw into a win-con.)
If I am forgetting anything feel free to point it out. Made this list quickly at work!
are you sure about these? where are you getting this from?
I've anecdotally found Tron and Bant Eldrazi to be very bad, as well as Lantern Control
also, i've found zoo to be generally OK, as our maindeck pushes and tarfires have all the targets =).
meanwhile, i'm fairly certain that regular "normal" jund is favoured against us, because they pack so much more removal, have ways to close out the game once it gets to topdecking, and they have card advantage which we don't.
so yeah - where did you get this information? the 45/55 comment doesn't seem to ring true either.... i'm just not sure where you're coming from here. like, sure, any opponent can stumble and be hit by a timely thoughtseize, regardless of deck. that's them getting "junded out", but over 100 games, or 1000 games, it all averages out. you can't say we don't have bad matchups because of your own experiences, if that's where it's coming from.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
flooding a lot
keeping a one land hand with 2 cantrips and never drawing the second land
having traverse stuck in my hand because i dont have delirium
drawing to many cards that do nothing in the current situation/matchup (fatal push, temur battle rage, tarfire, etc)
topdecking discard
i think a little bit more of deck manipulation would be great
There is also Firespout which may be easier to use than Radiant Flames as it requires 2 colors rather than 3.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Little surprised by that but I think it's cause of "local meta" being very aggro heavy. I see little to no control/Midrange decks/Grindy decks so it was a good meta call by the locals. I still think if your expecting those kinds of decks the white splash is very important.
And one of them won =)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=112219
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Round 1 grixis control. Loss
Win first game easily.
Second game, was forced to keep a hand with no discard but a couple of threats. Got myself into a good spot but a ripped damnation off the top crushed me.
Third game, made a misplay (this is the story of the day, really) and threw away a death's shadow by making an incorrect attack.
1-2
Round 2 Zoo, win
Won two quick games with a couple of fatal pushes, a tarfire and a threat. Nothing really to say here...
Round 3 grixis delver, win
Again 2 quick games. A discard spell followed by a fatal push was enough to let a single goyf go the distance in both games. It's simple "jund 'em out".
Round 4 death & taxes, win
Two quick games. A deck full if tarfire and fatal push makes this relatively easy. I could have won with a 2/2 zombie in these games, it was straightforward.
At this point I'm 3-1 and a win in my next round secures me for top8 (if I draw in the final round).
Round 5 tron, loss
Game 1, turn 1 thoughtseize away an o-stone and see not much going on besides 2 tron lands. Get on the beatdown but opponent gets natural tron into Ugin to just crush me instantly. Feels bad.
Game 2 (get this!) opening hand of 2x fulminator mage, 1x surgical extraction, 3 lands and a bauble. Decide that this is enough on the play, with a couple of draws, to get going. Opponent plays turn 1 relic of progenitus with a tower. I durdle. Opponent plays a SECOND tower (this is where it started to fall apart) and passes. Turn 3 I play my first fulminator but don't have a decent target so leave it on the battlefield. He plays sanctum of Ugin & fetches a mine off a map. Still no decent targets & he's leaving 1 mana up for relic to counter my surgical extraction. I finally draw a goyf but decide to play out my second fulminator. My misplay here is that I decided to sac both fulminators and remove both towers, to set him back two land drops and keep him completely off tron. Meanwhile I've got a useless traverse, a 0/1 goyf and no real pressure. My opponent has Ugin and Karn in hand. My opponent ruthlessly (and correctly) kept 1 mana up for his relic the whole time, so I had no chance to extract his towers. When he started exiling his own towers from his yard, I saw the writing on the wall. He naturally drew the remaining tron lands off the top, including his final tower(!!!) after I ghost quartered his third one. He drew everything he needed card after card. I meanwhile drew the goyf half of my deck and a maelstrom pulse, which didn't really do anything. Goyfs were never bigger than 1/2s the whole game. Looking back I recognise that there were three critical misplays I made during the game. 1 was going for the towers and not waiting for him to play his second tron piece. 2 was not traversing for a death's shadow and instead choosing to get a ghost quarter. 3 was not playing the goyf earlier; it might have forced him to crack his relic. I believe I had the tools to win this second game but fluffed it up.
At this point I was out of top8 contention and felt kind of salty, and proceeded to misplay my way out of the 6th round as well, against dredge.
So I went from being in a win&in to finishing 3-3 overall which is pretty bad.
One thing I learnt; this deck is REALLY HARD to play optimally. Maybe the hardest I've played ever (harder than normal jund). There are so many subtle choices that mean big consequences later in the game. My main opponent was misplays.
Another thing I learnt; when the deck wins, it just "junds 'em out". The deck isn't explicitly broken, it just plays discard into a threat and gets there. Often, the threat could be literally anything, but sometimes the size of your threats makes a difference.
Another thing I learnt; boarded in lingering souls a bunch of times and most of the time it just felt like having blockers & delaying the inevitable. Going to try straight jund from now on.
Final thought; the deck needs more graveyard hate (spellbomb) and some way to remove 5-toughness creatures (terminate or dismember)
Felt like I didn't do the deck justice, honestly. Haven't felt that way for a while so I need lots more practice. Get that muscle memory and instinct going because at the moment I'm having to over-think everything.
We don't have many bad match-ups actually, most of our "Bad Match-ups" are very close as in 45/55 in thier favour But I'll try to list off which match ups are good and which are bad. If you have questions why, I'll answer it in a different post.
Good Match-ups: Jund, Burn,(Very Tricky Match-up, really depends on the Pilots skill) Tron/Eldrazi Tron, Any Scapeshift/Titan Deck, Infect, Puresteel Paladin, Goryo's Vengance/Bird Brain.
Bad Match-ups: Grixis control/Delver, Abzan, Storm, Ad Nauesum, Revolt Zoo, Elves/Merfolk(Really Depends on how wide they are able to go, I consider them a bad match-up because like Zoo they are able to go wide fast, and Unless we see 2 or 3 cards of disruption followed up by a large threat, they can stall the game out and wait to draw into a win-con.)
If I am forgetting anything feel free to point it out. Made this list quickly at work!
MODERN – LANTERN (aka Fateseal or Barbershop)
Primer – Subreddit – Facebook – Decklist – Gameplay
Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow.
CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
On another note, why do people think the white splash decreases consistancy that much? In my experience, it did not hurt the deck very much, and getting to play Lingering Souls feels very good I must say, I think having the ability to go wide here is definitely worth something.
are you sure about these? where are you getting this from?
I've anecdotally found Tron and Bant Eldrazi to be very bad, as well as Lantern Control
also, i've found zoo to be generally OK, as our maindeck pushes and tarfires have all the targets =).
meanwhile, i'm fairly certain that regular "normal" jund is favoured against us, because they pack so much more removal, have ways to close out the game once it gets to topdecking, and they have card advantage which we don't.
so yeah - where did you get this information? the 45/55 comment doesn't seem to ring true either.... i'm just not sure where you're coming from here. like, sure, any opponent can stumble and be hit by a timely thoughtseize, regardless of deck. that's them getting "junded out", but over 100 games, or 1000 games, it all averages out. you can't say we don't have bad matchups because of your own experiences, if that's where it's coming from.