Hey guys, Going off of Spooly's 75, what would the sideboard plan look like for
Ponza
Eldrazi & Taxes
Mono White Taxes
Infect
B/R Hollow One
Mardu
Mono Blue Tron
8Rack
Wanted some sideboard info on some more tier 3 decks that I still see; want to know well enough that I'm not caught off guard.
I can speak to some of the matchups I've played:
Ponza
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Liliana of the Veil
-1 Terminate
+2 Stubborn Denial
+2 Disdainful Stroke
You need to mulligan to a way to prevent a turn 2/3 Blood Moon. If you can keep them off of Blood Moon, you should be able to just race. Your creatures are larger, and you have Disdainful Stroke to help prevent them from stabilizing.
B/R Hollow One
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Stubborn Denial
-1 Watery Grave
-1 Liliana of the Veil
-1 Thoughtseize
+4 Lingering Souls
+1 Hazoret, the Fervent
+1 Godless Shrine
+1 Ancient Grudge
This is based off of the list I was on when I played against B/R Hollow One, which is Spooly's 75 with minor changes to the sideboard: -1 Stubborn Denial, -1 Ranger of Eos, +1 Lingering Souls, +1 Hazoret. I found that they had a really hard time dealing with Lingering Souls, both offensively and defensively. Hazoret is also impossible for them to deal with. This was actually my first game bringing in Hazoret, and she was an all-star. Don't go nuts dealing damage to yourself, between the Phoenixes, Bloodghast, and burn spells, they can very abruptly kill you from 7ish life.
Mono White Taxes
I think that there are actually two ways to go about this matchup, and they may be play/draw dependent.
Option 1:
-2 Stubborn Denial
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Thoughtseize
+2 Kozilek's Return
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Izzet Staticaster
+1 Ancient Grudge
This is what I've done the last 2 times I played against the deck, and I won both matches. That being said, my opponents in both games didn't have the best draws, and I'm not entirely convinced that this is the best plan. My thinking was that their creatures are largely very fragile, and they don't have a lot of hard removal, so Staticaster and Liliana can do a lot to police the x/1's in the deck, which also tend to be their best creatures. Both matches I was able to get both Lilianas into play, which felt impossible for them to deal with. I've recently been thinking about a different approach, though:
-2 Stubborn Denial
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 Watery Grave
+4 Lingering Souls
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Godless Shrine
+1 Ancient Grudge
The plan here is to use Lingering Souls to block the x/1's so that you can just repeatedly slam in with Goyfs and Shadows. I haven't actually tried this strategy, and I don't personally think that I like it more than the first one I listed, but I could see the argument for it. The biggest hangup I have with this strategy is that Lingering Souls tokens don't hold up well in the long term against Eldrazi Displacer.
I feel this matchup must be abysmal for them, I would basically even like to have Stubs in this, but I think there is sooo much you want here between main and side, that Stubs are prob the worst alongside Lili (too slow) and TBR doesn't matter that much here. Decay doesn't hit Inkmoth which is the most problematic card and there is enough removal. Maybe you want Counter instead of Souls though, but SOuls is soo amazing against Infect that I would play it over coutners.
I feel this matchup must be abysmal for them, I would basically even like to have Stubs in this, but I think there is sooo much you want here between main and side, that Stubs are prob the worst alongside Lili (too slow) and TBR doesn't matter that much here. Decay doesn't hit Inkmoth which is the most problematic card and there is enough removal. Maybe you want Counter instead of Souls though, but SOuls is soo amazing against Infect that I would play it over coutners.
I feel this matchup must be abysmal for them, I would basically even like to have Stubs in this, but I think there is sooo much you want here between main and side, that Stubs are prob the worst alongside Lili (too slow) and TBR doesn't matter that much here. Decay doesn't hit Inkmoth which is the most problematic card and there is enough removal. Maybe you want Counter instead of Souls though, but SOuls is soo amazing against Infect that I would play it over coutners.
How are you gonna cast Staticaster without Grave?
Ah yeah my bad. Guess switching Watery Grave with Swamp works.
Glad to have some of my questions answered, jund buddies.
If anyone else has good results for the other matchups I listed, don't hesitate
I wish more of the mtg community had a sideboard guide or people knowledgeable of it. It's not so much what to sideboard, more about what should be taken out.
It's not so much what to sideboard, more about what should be taken out.
This is one of the biggest challenges to sideboarding with 5-color shadow, in particular. I usually start by trying to decide how I want to interact first (on the stack, on the battlefield, or attack their hand), and for matchups where more than one of those is viable I try to rank them in terms of what's most effective in a vacuum, and vs their expected sideboard plan. The "how" will usually inform what gets cut, and even though it's a little over-simplistic it's definitely helped me kind of bootstrap the process of learning to sideboard with the deck.
I feel this matchup must be abysmal for them, I would basically even like to have Stubs in this, but I think there is sooo much you want here between main and side, that Stubs are prob the worst alongside Lili (too slow) and TBR doesn't matter that much here. Decay doesn't hit Inkmoth which is the most problematic card and there is enough removal. Maybe you want Counter instead of Souls though, but SOuls is soo amazing against Infect that I would play it over coutners.
How are you gonna cast Staticaster without Grave?
Ah yeah my bad. Guess switching Watery Grave with Swamp works.
I disagree there, Traversing for Swamp can be a very valid play. I'd sooner cut a fetch if you're going down that road.
Hey Spooly, have u made any changes to the list that u played at SCG Regionals? I kinda wanna shove a Decay for another removal spell bc I feel it's not that efficient in the metagame rn
I don't really have an updated list right now, but I've been experimenting with some things. A Forest instead of an Overgrown Tomb. Cutting the Staticaster and a Grudge in the SB for Radiant Flames in an attempt to fight humans. And trying Hazoret and P&K instead of Ranger.
Ah gotcha was unaware - definitely support the change then, 2 Tomb doesn’t need to exist when they’re going to GQ it for a Forest anyway
Feels pretty bad to open with Forest and a bunch of discard spells though eh?
That happened numerous times in the first version of Jund DS for me, not gonna lie, I hated it. And thats one big issue I have with running basics. You kinda have to due to mana denial, but a forest hurts you really bad sometimes.
Feels equally bad to play your overgrown and a savvy opponent GQs it to keep you off Forest. There’s a reason DnT is doing well against DS decks, they play 4-10 land destruction effects and also jam Arbiter on top of that. 🤷🏻♂️
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Feels equally bad to play your overgrown and a savvy opponent GQs it to keep you off Forest. There’s a reason DnT is doing well against DS decks, they play 4-10 land destruction effects and also jam Arbiter on top of that.
A savvy opponent will GQ you with Arbiter already out, so you're not gonna find that Forest anyway.
Either way, I'll take my chances and keep the deck consistent as that is its forte to begin with. Adding some arbitrary number of percentage points in a certain situation against a certain deck at the cost of taking away a probably larger number of percentage points in a different type of situation against almost every other deck is simply not worth it for me.
Besides, you still have Stomping Ground if you need G.
Feels equally bad to play your overgrown and a savvy opponent GQs it to keep you off Forest. There’s a reason DnT is doing well against DS decks, they play 4-10 land destruction effects and also jam Arbiter on top of that.
A savvy opponent will GQ you with Arbiter already out, so you're not gonna find that Forest anyway.
Either way, I'll take my chances and keep the deck consistent as that is its forte to begin with. Adding some arbitrary number of percentage points in a certain situation against a certain deck at the cost of taking away a probably larger number of percentage points in a different type of situation against almost every other deck is simply not worth it for me.
Besides, you still have Stomping Ground if you need G.
Forest is the worst card to draw, it's true. But I'm not playing it for just one deck. Here is a list of decks where the Forest is very relevant:
All UW and UWx control shells (Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin, Path to Exile)
UR Breach and UR twin (Blood Moon)
Ponza (Blood Moon)
W and WB taxes variants (Ghost Quarter)
Eldrazi and other Tron variants (Ghost Quarter)
Storm (Blood Moon out of the SB sometimes)
Lantern (Ghost Quarter)
Affinity (Blood Moon out of the SB occasionally)
GW Company (Ghost Quarter)
The most important slot on that list is UWx control. UWR has been having a lot of success in the opens lately, though they don't always have GQ or Field, and in my last 5 leagues I think I've played against at least one UWx control deck each time.
But activating delirium for a shadow is big
Or getting your goyf 6/7 7/8 with tbr is heavy
To be honest i tried it for 2 fnm not much really (5c version)
I think maybe i am used to deaths shadow as a fast beating deck as it was ds zoo
It's amazing how different this deck feels from Grixis. It definitely relies more on ripping the hand apart and getting underneath people quickly.
I can speak to some of the matchups I've played:
Ponza
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Liliana of the Veil
-1 Terminate
+2 Stubborn Denial
+2 Disdainful Stroke
You need to mulligan to a way to prevent a turn 2/3 Blood Moon. If you can keep them off of Blood Moon, you should be able to just race. Your creatures are larger, and you have Disdainful Stroke to help prevent them from stabilizing.
B/R Hollow One
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Stubborn Denial
-1 Watery Grave
-1 Liliana of the Veil
-1 Thoughtseize
+4 Lingering Souls
+1 Hazoret, the Fervent
+1 Godless Shrine
+1 Ancient Grudge
This is based off of the list I was on when I played against B/R Hollow One, which is Spooly's 75 with minor changes to the sideboard: -1 Stubborn Denial, -1 Ranger of Eos, +1 Lingering Souls, +1 Hazoret. I found that they had a really hard time dealing with Lingering Souls, both offensively and defensively. Hazoret is also impossible for them to deal with. This was actually my first game bringing in Hazoret, and she was an all-star. Don't go nuts dealing damage to yourself, between the Phoenixes, Bloodghast, and burn spells, they can very abruptly kill you from 7ish life.
Mono White Taxes
I think that there are actually two ways to go about this matchup, and they may be play/draw dependent.
Option 1:
-2 Stubborn Denial
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Thoughtseize
+2 Kozilek's Return
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Izzet Staticaster
+1 Ancient Grudge
This is what I've done the last 2 times I played against the deck, and I won both matches. That being said, my opponents in both games didn't have the best draws, and I'm not entirely convinced that this is the best plan. My thinking was that their creatures are largely very fragile, and they don't have a lot of hard removal, so Staticaster and Liliana can do a lot to police the x/1's in the deck, which also tend to be their best creatures. Both matches I was able to get both Lilianas into play, which felt impossible for them to deal with. I've recently been thinking about a different approach, though:
-2 Stubborn Denial
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 Watery Grave
+4 Lingering Souls
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Godless Shrine
+1 Ancient Grudge
The plan here is to use Lingering Souls to block the x/1's so that you can just repeatedly slam in with Goyfs and Shadows. I haven't actually tried this strategy, and I don't personally think that I like it more than the first one I listed, but I could see the argument for it. The biggest hangup I have with this strategy is that Lingering Souls tokens don't hold up well in the long term against Eldrazi Displacer.
-3 LoTV
-2 TBR
-2 Stubs
-1 Watery
-2 Decay
+1 Godless
+3 Lingering
+1 Izzet
+2 Grudge
+1 Kozilek
+2 CB
I feel this matchup must be abysmal for them, I would basically even like to have Stubs in this, but I think there is sooo much you want here between main and side, that Stubs are prob the worst alongside Lili (too slow) and TBR doesn't matter that much here. Decay doesn't hit Inkmoth which is the most problematic card and there is enough removal. Maybe you want Counter instead of Souls though, but SOuls is soo amazing against Infect that I would play it over coutners.
How are you gonna cast Staticaster without Grave?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Ah yeah my bad. Guess switching Watery Grave with Swamp works.
Glad to have some of my questions answered, jund buddies.
If anyone else has good results for the other matchups I listed, don't hesitate
I wish more of the mtg community had a sideboard guide or people knowledgeable of it. It's not so much what to sideboard, more about what should be taken out.
This is one of the biggest challenges to sideboarding with 5-color shadow, in particular. I usually start by trying to decide how I want to interact first (on the stack, on the battlefield, or attack their hand), and for matchups where more than one of those is viable I try to rank them in terms of what's most effective in a vacuum, and vs their expected sideboard plan. The "how" will usually inform what gets cut, and even though it's a little over-simplistic it's definitely helped me kind of bootstrap the process of learning to sideboard with the deck.
I disagree there, Traversing for Swamp can be a very valid play. I'd sooner cut a fetch if you're going down that road.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I don't really have an updated list right now, but I've been experimenting with some things. A Forest instead of an Overgrown Tomb. Cutting the Staticaster and a Grudge in the SB for Radiant Flames in an attempt to fight humans. And trying Hazoret and P&K instead of Ranger.
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
No, there's still an Overgrown Tomb in the deck. My regionals 75 had 2.
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Feels pretty bad to open with Forest and a bunch of discard spells though eh?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
That happened numerous times in the first version of Jund DS for me, not gonna lie, I hated it. And thats one big issue I have with running basics. You kinda have to due to mana denial, but a forest hurts you really bad sometimes.
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
A savvy opponent will GQ you with Arbiter already out, so you're not gonna find that Forest anyway.
Either way, I'll take my chances and keep the deck consistent as that is its forte to begin with. Adding some arbitrary number of percentage points in a certain situation against a certain deck at the cost of taking away a probably larger number of percentage points in a different type of situation against almost every other deck is simply not worth it for me.
Besides, you still have Stomping Ground if you need G.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Forest is the worst card to draw, it's true. But I'm not playing it for just one deck. Here is a list of decks where the Forest is very relevant:
All UW and UWx control shells (Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin, Path to Exile)
UR Breach and UR twin (Blood Moon)
Ponza (Blood Moon)
W and WB taxes variants (Ghost Quarter)
Eldrazi and other Tron variants (Ghost Quarter)
Storm (Blood Moon out of the SB sometimes)
Lantern (Ghost Quarter)
Affinity (Blood Moon out of the SB occasionally)
GW Company (Ghost Quarter)
The most important slot on that list is UWx control. UWR has been having a lot of success in the opens lately, though they don't always have GQ or Field, and in my last 5 leagues I think I've played against at least one UWx control deck each time.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)