Guys and gals I need some advice. I go to a very small FNM, usually around 8 to 10 people and I have done fairly well off and on with a couple of decks. Having said that, there is one deck that I don't want to lose to; Mono white Eldrazi and taxes. Pretty typical build and I went looking for decks that I think have a good matchup against it and also play well to the field. I already have all the expensive cards for Jund and below is what I am thinking of taking. Again, I don't want to loose to this deck under normal draws. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My thought is that torpor orb could be very good. Lastly, the other decks I have seen is elves, burn, bug boggles, grixis control and jank. My goal was to have a deck that can play against the field but tweaked a bit to win against mono white eldrazi and taxes.
Again any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thoughts:
•Your list looks heavily geared for the Control/Grindy MU. That’s not a bad thing if that’s what you’re expecting to face, although...
•...8x 3-drops and 4x 4-drops with only 24x lands feels a little greedy.
•Your removal and discard suite looks unfavorable for the Aggro and Burn MU’s. Some Fatal Push would be good.
•I don’t think Torpor Orb is worth it. It doesn’t affect the board state. If you play it turn-2 it’s ok. Later than that I think you’ll end up wishing it was removal or a threat. Back when Twin and Pod were a huge portion of the meta it was passable, but things were slower back then.
•I like 2x Anger of the Gods against that field. You have the manabase for it. Also Golgari Charm seems decent against that field (Junk, Bogles, Elves, etc.) too. The Abrupt Decays seem pretty good. I think the Maelstrom Pulses could be something better.
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I am currently putting together Jund as my next Modern deck. I am not new to the format and have plenty of experience with other archetypes but i am somewhat new to midrange. The problem i have is that there seems to be a lot of variation for the mana bases and card choices in general.
I have seen lists running 4 Raging Ravine, others only run 2. Some run Twilight Mire, some do not. Is there a general consens on when and why to play X of any land?
About the 3 Surgicals: I just feel like they are really that good at the moment. I played 3 in Mardu Pyromancer and it gives game against Dredge, KCI and Phoenix decks. In Jund, combined with Fulminators, i feel like they are also good against Tron. I mainly play(ed) Tron and atleast that was always my view on it.
About Brutalities: Yeah. I know. I would love to play some but i just found nothing to cut to make room for them. Hearing that 6 Discard is the standard i will probably cut one and jam in a Brutality. Would you cut an Inquisition or a Thoughtseize? I am leaning towards Thoughtseize as it feels like the worse hit off a BBE?
About Brutalities: Yeah. I know. I would love to play some but i just found nothing to cut to make room for them. Hearing that 6 Discard is the standard i will probably cut one and jam in a Brutality. Would you cut an Inquisition or a Thoughtseize? I am leaning towards Thoughtseize as it feels like the worse hit off a BBE?
The consensus in GBx in general is six-one-mana discard spells. Either a 4/2 split of Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize or 3/3. Rarely, one will see 2/4. Rock, specifically, often runs main-deck Collective Brutality in addition to, not in place of, the one-mana spells. It isn't unusual to see seven one-mana discard spells and two CB main-deck in Rock. Jund, from what I've seen, tends to side-board CB.
I just finished thoroughly reading the primer and i noticed that i am running 3 K-Command instead of the "fixed" 2. So i could cut 1 K-Command, go down to 6 3-Drops which would work better with 24 lands and cut one Thoughtseize. So i have 2 new slots. I can imagine running one Brutality and maybe something spicy like 1 Tarfire? I am really excited about all the options in this deck!
I noticed that THIS list that scored 5th at the Baltimore Open included a singleton Ishkanah, Grafwidow in the SB. What are y’all’s thoughts on this tech? I assume it’s for all the spirits and phoenixes flying around. Even though it makes four bodies with reach (including itself) it still seems underpowered at 5cmc, but maybe I’m just not looking at it in the right way. I was actually scrolling through creatures with reach in Gatherer a couple of days ago looking for some spicy SB tech, but nothing caught my eye. Everything just seems subpar. I wish there were some better spiders, but again, maybe Ishkanah is better than I’m recognizing.
Raking Canopy seems solid against Spirits (especially since it negates Hexproof, as it doesn’t target), but way too narrow against the rest of the field.
If you happen to have delirium on turn 5, maybe. I think it's cute but not good enough. Maybe even bad. The bottom line is we need to kill everything they play while being aggressive enough to keep them on defensive. I'm not sure how we do that since almost everything they play is evasive. I'm actually beginning to think all the tribal decks are bad matches for Jund straight up.
Which makes me question what is trying trying to do anymore. It feels so hard to beat a good spirits player. Why is the midrange deck getting outclassed by the tribal aggro deck?
What deck are we happy to sit across from?
(Sorry for the doom and gloom, just been frustrated with the deck lately)
I guess it cant be all bad since we made top 8 this weekend?
One top 8 doesn't make me feel warm or fuzzy. It makes me think that guy had to get lucky and grind like a champ just to get there. I don't know what deck I can say right now that I want to sit across. Tron maybe? Storm? I seem to be alright against the UR Thing/Phoenix decks. I honestly couldn't tell you right now.
Yeah, that’s kinda what I was thinking about the spider. I was pretty disappointed when I looked through the list of Reach creatures. That ability really hasn’t gotten any love. Maybe some of the creatures used to be relevant, but they have not aged well as regards power-creep, and the freshly printed ones just aren’t on par.
I’m sure he played tight and drew the necessary ‘half of the deck’. That’s always been the requirement, right? That’s the joke about Midrange. Has been for a long time. It has a sweet suite of removal, and a pile of quality cards, and when it runs right, it runs like a top. It’s still winning games and placing in large tournaments, it’s still a decent portion of a very varied meta. It always has a chance, though it hasn’t been a top-tier deck in a long time. The two disruptive Aggro decks are obviously doing the most consistently powerful things right now (while not being too fragile to hate), and they’re both tribes that will continue to get a lot of new assets in the future. I just get super bored with decks like that. They may have (powerful) disruptive elements, but they still feel pretty damn linear. I’ve tried ‘em both out and they got old fast. I hope Goblins keep getting new cards (or maybe some powerful old ones), because that’s a tribe a would love to play. And I don’t mean 8whack. I mean Midrange/Aggro and/or Combo Gobbos.
3x Anger of the Gods has been really solid for me, by the way. It’s a great way to get ahead against those powerful decks. The reiteration has been great.
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One top 8 doesn't make me feel warm or fuzzy. It makes me think that guy had to get lucky and grind like a champ just to get there. I don't know what deck I can say right now that I want to sit across. Tron maybe? Storm? I seem to be alright against the UR Thing/Phoenix decks. I honestly couldn't tell you right now.
I'm glad you're being logical. Some people definitely say, "but it was in the top 8, it's fine, you're overreacting". The real question is---what deck are we happy to play? Humans---no, not really. Spirits--nope. Tron? Nah. Dredge---definitely not.
Like, I get a fair deck has a grind to it, but there's no longer matchups where I'm like, "sweet, I feel good about my hand and this matchup".
Jund doesn't know what it wants to do. Blue can also rip it's deck with cantrips (Visions, Thought Scour, Azcanta, etc). These other new waves of combo aggro and midrange plays faithless looting, getting rid of dead cards and reloading. That saying of Jund having the best topdeck is definitely dead. That stopped sometime around fatal push's printing, right?
Jund no longer has the right in saying, "Our topdeck is better than yours".
Tribal decks are crazy resilient now, and going either taller and wider or being evasive. Combo decks are becoming more resilient.
I actually think Grixis Shadow/4C Shadow is now the deck we should be playing if you're trying to get that midrange itch. Unfortunately the conversation is nearly non-existitent here for some reason. Grixis is actually seeing quite a bit of results in top 8s. That may be due to Humans being just another good deck instead of THE deck.
I wonder as time goes by if modern could be a format where not playing blue as a fair deck could be very difficult.
Either way, I've been jamming Shadow decks but it sucks to have no one to discuss it with.
I do like that more Jund decks have come to a consensus though, it was looking rough for a while. When a fair deck looks drastically different from one another that is usually a very bad sign to me. It's one of the reasons why I don't think I'll ever be a true UW Control/Jeskai player.
Lets even look at the new Phoenix decks. If anyone watched SCG this weekend, the way both versions ripped through it's deck with Manamorphose, Bedlam Revlar, tormenting Voices and Loot was amazing. When you get to see that many cards in a deck you see a lot of consistency. It doesn't hurt that you get to even use some of those cards after they're discarded.
Jund will remain popular because it's a style people like...but if you guys pay attention to modern, you can clearly see this deck is being left behind as obsolete. I REALLY, REALLY want to be wrong. I'm waiting for Jund to receive just a few cards to push it over the edge, as that can easily happen. What we need now is not better removal, we need either some kind of broken creature or spell that helps rip through our deck.
I agree with that. Thats observation about modern is what I am also always arguing about when it comes down to talking consistancy in our deck. Thats the reason I am a big advocate for being as much consistant as possible.
This trend certainly has gotten true when probe was banned and push was printed. And it will continue like that. That being said, I think we as a fair deck have a chance if we abuse metagaming to max value, or if proper cards are printed. In a format like legacy, where crazy degenerate things are possible, we see that fair decks can stll be good. However, the way wizards prints cards, we wont get help as they dont like to print individual powerful cards. They are printing more synergy driven cards. And that will eventually make it really tough for us.
Right now tough, i am personally still fine with humans and spirits. I am yet happy to face it as my deck feels strong against them (still). But I am not sure how long it will take until that changes.
What we would need imo is strong card selection spells which lets us keep up with opponents and doesnt require specific deckbuilding like looting. We need more consistancy and more ways to reduce our wrong answers or to late answers problem.
What we would need imo is strong card selection spells which lets us keep up with opponents and doesnt require specific deckbuilding like looting. We need more consistancy and more ways to reduce our wrong answers or to late answers problem.
The problem is that these kind of spells aren't really in Jund colors. Red only has looting effects and exile the top card, you might cast it this turn. Green can find creatures or lands but BG/x decks obviously rely a lot on instant and sorceries and that's unfortunately a blue thing.
Black is the joker here since it can find any card but I wouldn't count on seeing stuff like Demonic Tutor or spells of similar power level again.
I think we could look into trying to become a looting deck? If you cant beat em, join em. So I think we need just enough payoff to enable looting.
I dont think we will ever get better card selection than looting in jund colors
I’d just be scared we’d be a worse Looting/Graveyard-centric deck than the rest of them.
What would it look like?
-Cut Bob and BBE for Bedlam Reveler and Grim Flayer?
-Is Discovery // Dispersal good (obviously I’m only asking about “Discovery”)? I’m not used to these strategies and I’m not a good judge of value for these kinds of mechanics (cantrips/filtering/looting). Never been a blue player.
-What about a singleton Claim // Fame for all the 2-drops?
-Doom Whisperer seems like a lot of value at 5cmc.
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I think we could look into trying to become a looting deck? If you cant beat em, join em. So I think we need just enough payoff to enable looting.
I dont think we will ever get better card selection than looting in jund colors
So, theres several issues with that. Jund is constructed in a way that a quick swap doesn't work.
Faithless looting is card disadvantage, not a big deal when you're getting rid of bad cards, right? The issue is that jund leans very heavily on Lotv to beat combo and land decks. One discard and a turn 2 goyf can sometimes be enough if a deck stumbles enough, right?
In my experience it often takes 2 discard in some form and a clock to beat those decks if they dont stumble. Or we have no clock and have an abundance of discard. Fitting in loot without lotv would require some large changes.
Then theres bedlam....he completely clashes with Bob. We can't realistically run multiple 7 plus drops.
What about when we keep a hand better off against creature decks? Now we can't even fill the graveyard to fill up for bedlam.
At that point why dont you just run mardu? Mardu is fantastic against creature decks but has a slow clock, and lingering souls isnt good in this meta.
I dont think it's an accident how decks are starting to look, decks are seeing more live top decks or burning through the library.
If you guys look on mtggoldfish there is a trend, the top decks have either a low land count, or a ton of ways to see the deck. Jund runs 24 to 25 lands with no filtering. Guys, that's huge and it's a real problem. As modern slowly catches up to legacy I think we will see more of that. If arena doesn't kill modern off, I imagine something like grixis or sultai will be the forced colors to thrive in midrange.
And flyer, I dont agree with you on wotc and the cards they make. In a year they printed azcanta and teferi while unbanning jace...in one year UW went from being a tier 3 joke to top dog over the summer. That can easily happen to gbx.
It feels awful to say, but we need a huge unban like pod or shaman, and that's not happening. It could result in disaster.
Ive been jamming shadow decks and that 17 to 18 land count is gigantic.
Grixis shadow isnt a bad meta call. I said it looked better than people realized, and then it had a ton of top 8s in mtgo and some other events and has nearly doubled on mtggoldfish. I may not be an accomplished player but I do often feel confident in my assessments about modern
One top 8 doesn't make me feel warm or fuzzy. It makes me think that guy had to get lucky and grind like a champ just to get there. I don't know what deck I can say right now that I want to sit across. Tron maybe? Storm? I seem to be alright against the UR Thing/Phoenix decks. I honestly couldn't tell you right now.
I'm glad you're being logical. Some people definitely say, "but it was in the top 8, it's fine, you're overreacting". The real question is---what deck are we happy to play? Humans---no, not really. Spirits--nope. Tron? Nah. Dredge---definitely not.
Like, I get a fair deck has a grind to it, but there's no longer matchups where I'm like, "sweet, I feel good about my hand and this matchup".
Jund doesn't know what it wants to do. Blue can also rip it's deck with cantrips (Visions, Thought Scour, Azcanta, etc). These other new waves of combo aggro and midrange plays faithless looting, getting rid of dead cards and reloading. That saying of Jund having the best topdeck is definitely dead. That stopped sometime around fatal push's printing, right?
Jund no longer has the right in saying, "Our topdeck is better than yours".
Tribal decks are crazy resilient now, and going either taller and wider or being evasive. Combo decks are becoming more resilient.
I actually think Grixis Shadow/4C Shadow is now the deck we should be playing if you're trying to get that midrange itch. Unfortunately the conversation is nearly non-existitent here for some reason. Grixis is actually seeing quite a bit of results in top 8s. That may be due to Humans being just another good deck instead of THE deck.
I wonder as time goes by if modern could be a format where not playing blue as a fair deck could be very difficult.
Either way, I've been jamming Shadow decks but it sucks to have no one to discuss it with.
I do like that more Jund decks have come to a consensus though, it was looking rough for a while. When a fair deck looks drastically different from one another that is usually a very bad sign to me. It's one of the reasons why I don't think I'll ever be a true UW Control/Jeskai player.
Lets even look at the new Phoenix decks. If anyone watched SCG this weekend, the way both versions ripped through it's deck with Manamorphose, Bedlam Revlar, tormenting Voices and Loot was amazing. When you get to see that many cards in a deck you see a lot of consistency. It doesn't hurt that you get to even use some of those cards after they're discarded.
Jund will remain popular because it's a style people like...but if you guys pay attention to modern, you can clearly see this deck is being left behind as obsolete. I REALLY, REALLY want to be wrong. I'm waiting for Jund to receive just a few cards to push it over the edge, as that can easily happen. What we need now is not better removal, we need either some kind of broken creature or spell that helps rip through our deck.
My only problem with Death's Shadow decks is that tribal decks give them fits. While Humans may just be a really good deck now instead of THE deck, Spirits is quite capable of smashing hard and being disruptive as well. Not to mention, Stubborn Denial (the real power of Grixis DS imo) is terrible against both of those decks. I really don't think Shadow decks are situated that much better to be honest. Maybe 4C Shadow would have a better time, but from what I recall, I'm not super high on it either.
As for the need for strong card selection, I can't imagine any card WotC would make that could help midrange strategies specifically. If a card were made in the Jund wheel that provides decent-to-great card selection, how would they make it specific enough that mono-G Tron can't make use of it? Now what about Grixis control or even Ad Nauseam? The point is that I'm not sure that they would want to release that rabbit into the current wilds. I think it would prop up the wrong decks and knock the legs out from the ones that need such, which basically would make life more miserable for us middle-of-the-road fair decks. A good comparison would be Fatal Push. It definitely helped us, but it also hurt us greatly.
If wizard print a black serum vision, would that help raise our deck to tier 1.5? I feel like any other cantrip that more powerful than serum would get ban by wizard.
Thoughts:
•Your list looks heavily geared for the Control/Grindy MU. That’s not a bad thing if that’s what you’re expecting to face, although...
•...8x 3-drops and 4x 4-drops with only 24x lands feels a little greedy.
•Your removal and discard suite looks unfavorable for the Aggro and Burn MU’s. Some Fatal Push would be good.
•I don’t think Torpor Orb is worth it. It doesn’t affect the board state. If you play it turn-2 it’s ok. Later than that I think you’ll end up wishing it was removal or a threat. Back when Twin and Pod were a huge portion of the meta it was passable, but things were slower back then.
•I like 2x Anger of the Gods against that field. You have the manabase for it. Also Golgari Charm seems decent against that field (Junk, Bogles, Elves, etc.) too. The Abrupt Decays seem pretty good. I think the Maelstrom Pulses could be something better.
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I am currently putting together Jund as my next Modern deck. I am not new to the format and have plenty of experience with other archetypes but i am somewhat new to midrange. The problem i have is that there seems to be a lot of variation for the mana bases and card choices in general.
I have seen lists running 4 Raging Ravine, others only run 2. Some run Twilight Mire, some do not. Is there a general consens on when and why to play X of any land?
My current list looks as follows:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the last Hope
2 Assassin's Trophy
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
About the 3 Surgicals: I just feel like they are really that good at the moment. I played 3 in Mardu Pyromancer and it gives game against Dredge, KCI and Phoenix decks. In Jund, combined with Fulminators, i feel like they are also good against Tron. I mainly play(ed) Tron and atleast that was always my view on it.
About Brutalities: Yeah. I know. I would love to play some but i just found nothing to cut to make room for them. Hearing that 6 Discard is the standard i will probably cut one and jam in a Brutality. Would you cut an Inquisition or a Thoughtseize? I am leaning towards Thoughtseize as it feels like the worse hit off a BBE?
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
The consensus in GBx in general is six-one-mana discard spells. Either a 4/2 split of Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize or 3/3. Rarely, one will see 2/4. Rock, specifically, often runs main-deck Collective Brutality in addition to, not in place of, the one-mana spells. It isn't unusual to see seven one-mana discard spells and two CB main-deck in Rock. Jund, from what I've seen, tends to side-board CB.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
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I just finished thoroughly reading the primer and i noticed that i am running 3 K-Command instead of the "fixed" 2. So i could cut 1 K-Command, go down to 6 3-Drops which would work better with 24 lands and cut one Thoughtseize. So i have 2 new slots. I can imagine running one Brutality and maybe something spicy like 1 Tarfire? I am really excited about all the options in this deck!
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Raking Canopy seems solid against Spirits (especially since it negates Hexproof, as it doesn’t target), but way too narrow against the rest of the field.
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What deck are we happy to sit across from?
(Sorry for the doom and gloom, just been frustrated with the deck lately)
I guess it cant be all bad since we made top 8 this weekend?
I’m sure he played tight and drew the necessary ‘half of the deck’. That’s always been the requirement, right? That’s the joke about Midrange. Has been for a long time. It has a sweet suite of removal, and a pile of quality cards, and when it runs right, it runs like a top. It’s still winning games and placing in large tournaments, it’s still a decent portion of a very varied meta. It always has a chance, though it hasn’t been a top-tier deck in a long time. The two disruptive Aggro decks are obviously doing the most consistently powerful things right now (while not being too fragile to hate), and they’re both tribes that will continue to get a lot of new assets in the future. I just get super bored with decks like that. They may have (powerful) disruptive elements, but they still feel pretty damn linear. I’ve tried ‘em both out and they got old fast. I hope Goblins keep getting new cards (or maybe some powerful old ones), because that’s a tribe a would love to play. And I don’t mean 8whack. I mean Midrange/Aggro and/or Combo Gobbos.
3x Anger of the Gods has been really solid for me, by the way. It’s a great way to get ahead against those powerful decks. The reiteration has been great.
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BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I'm glad you're being logical. Some people definitely say, "but it was in the top 8, it's fine, you're overreacting". The real question is---what deck are we happy to play? Humans---no, not really. Spirits--nope. Tron? Nah. Dredge---definitely not.
Like, I get a fair deck has a grind to it, but there's no longer matchups where I'm like, "sweet, I feel good about my hand and this matchup".
Jund doesn't know what it wants to do. Blue can also rip it's deck with cantrips (Visions, Thought Scour, Azcanta, etc). These other new waves of combo aggro and midrange plays faithless looting, getting rid of dead cards and reloading. That saying of Jund having the best topdeck is definitely dead. That stopped sometime around fatal push's printing, right?
Jund no longer has the right in saying, "Our topdeck is better than yours".
Tribal decks are crazy resilient now, and going either taller and wider or being evasive. Combo decks are becoming more resilient.
I actually think Grixis Shadow/4C Shadow is now the deck we should be playing if you're trying to get that midrange itch. Unfortunately the conversation is nearly non-existitent here for some reason. Grixis is actually seeing quite a bit of results in top 8s. That may be due to Humans being just another good deck instead of THE deck.
I wonder as time goes by if modern could be a format where not playing blue as a fair deck could be very difficult.
Either way, I've been jamming Shadow decks but it sucks to have no one to discuss it with.
I do like that more Jund decks have come to a consensus though, it was looking rough for a while. When a fair deck looks drastically different from one another that is usually a very bad sign to me. It's one of the reasons why I don't think I'll ever be a true UW Control/Jeskai player.
Lets even look at the new Phoenix decks. If anyone watched SCG this weekend, the way both versions ripped through it's deck with Manamorphose, Bedlam Revlar, tormenting Voices and Loot was amazing. When you get to see that many cards in a deck you see a lot of consistency. It doesn't hurt that you get to even use some of those cards after they're discarded.
Jund will remain popular because it's a style people like...but if you guys pay attention to modern, you can clearly see this deck is being left behind as obsolete. I REALLY, REALLY want to be wrong. I'm waiting for Jund to receive just a few cards to push it over the edge, as that can easily happen. What we need now is not better removal, we need either some kind of broken creature or spell that helps rip through our deck.
This trend certainly has gotten true when probe was banned and push was printed. And it will continue like that. That being said, I think we as a fair deck have a chance if we abuse metagaming to max value, or if proper cards are printed. In a format like legacy, where crazy degenerate things are possible, we see that fair decks can stll be good. However, the way wizards prints cards, we wont get help as they dont like to print individual powerful cards. They are printing more synergy driven cards. And that will eventually make it really tough for us.
Right now tough, i am personally still fine with humans and spirits. I am yet happy to face it as my deck feels strong against them (still). But I am not sure how long it will take until that changes.
The problem is that these kind of spells aren't really in Jund colors. Red only has looting effects and exile the top card, you might cast it this turn. Green can find creatures or lands but BG/x decks obviously rely a lot on instant and sorceries and that's unfortunately a blue thing.
Black is the joker here since it can find any card but I wouldn't count on seeing stuff like Demonic Tutor or spells of similar power level again.
I dont think we will ever get better card selection than looting in jund colors
I’d just be scared we’d be a worse Looting/Graveyard-centric deck than the rest of them.
What would it look like?
-Cut Bob and BBE for Bedlam Reveler and Grim Flayer?
-Is Discovery // Dispersal good (obviously I’m only asking about “Discovery”)? I’m not used to these strategies and I’m not a good judge of value for these kinds of mechanics (cantrips/filtering/looting). Never been a blue player.
-What about a singleton Claim // Fame for all the 2-drops?
-Doom Whisperer seems like a lot of value at 5cmc.
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So, theres several issues with that. Jund is constructed in a way that a quick swap doesn't work.
Faithless looting is card disadvantage, not a big deal when you're getting rid of bad cards, right? The issue is that jund leans very heavily on Lotv to beat combo and land decks. One discard and a turn 2 goyf can sometimes be enough if a deck stumbles enough, right?
In my experience it often takes 2 discard in some form and a clock to beat those decks if they dont stumble. Or we have no clock and have an abundance of discard. Fitting in loot without lotv would require some large changes.
Then theres bedlam....he completely clashes with Bob. We can't realistically run multiple 7 plus drops.
What about when we keep a hand better off against creature decks? Now we can't even fill the graveyard to fill up for bedlam.
At that point why dont you just run mardu? Mardu is fantastic against creature decks but has a slow clock, and lingering souls isnt good in this meta.
I dont think it's an accident how decks are starting to look, decks are seeing more live top decks or burning through the library.
If you guys look on mtggoldfish there is a trend, the top decks have either a low land count, or a ton of ways to see the deck. Jund runs 24 to 25 lands with no filtering. Guys, that's huge and it's a real problem. As modern slowly catches up to legacy I think we will see more of that. If arena doesn't kill modern off, I imagine something like grixis or sultai will be the forced colors to thrive in midrange.
And flyer, I dont agree with you on wotc and the cards they make. In a year they printed azcanta and teferi while unbanning jace...in one year UW went from being a tier 3 joke to top dog over the summer. That can easily happen to gbx.
It feels awful to say, but we need a huge unban like pod or shaman, and that's not happening. It could result in disaster.
Ive been jamming shadow decks and that 17 to 18 land count is gigantic.
Grixis shadow isnt a bad meta call. I said it looked better than people realized, and then it had a ton of top 8s in mtgo and some other events and has nearly doubled on mtggoldfish. I may not be an accomplished player but I do often feel confident in my assessments about modern
My only problem with Death's Shadow decks is that tribal decks give them fits. While Humans may just be a really good deck now instead of THE deck, Spirits is quite capable of smashing hard and being disruptive as well. Not to mention, Stubborn Denial (the real power of Grixis DS imo) is terrible against both of those decks. I really don't think Shadow decks are situated that much better to be honest. Maybe 4C Shadow would have a better time, but from what I recall, I'm not super high on it either.
As for the need for strong card selection, I can't imagine any card WotC would make that could help midrange strategies specifically. If a card were made in the Jund wheel that provides decent-to-great card selection, how would they make it specific enough that mono-G Tron can't make use of it? Now what about Grixis control or even Ad Nauseam? The point is that I'm not sure that they would want to release that rabbit into the current wilds. I think it would prop up the wrong decks and knock the legs out from the ones that need such, which basically would make life more miserable for us middle-of-the-road fair decks. A good comparison would be Fatal Push. It definitely helped us, but it also hurt us greatly.