Is there any merrit to running just 13 creatures in favor of more removal instead of 14? (In 25 land build with 4 manlands)
Man, I’d hate to not be able to find a clock when you need it. That already happens to me sometimes with 14 creatures. There’s just a lot of inevitability out there. Personally I wouldn’t want to play less. Just my $0.02
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Hey guys, I have been lurking here for several years now. I just thought I would finally post because I feel that I have enough games of Jund to actually be somewhat knowledgeable.
The deck is extremely difficult to pilot. My girlfriend plays Burn, so she finishes her games quickly and easily. With this deck, no game is easy I have found. This deck also seems to have wild swings of power and despair. I'll finish a league 4-1 or 5-0. Then the next league, I'll finish 0-5. Very odd. I seem to struggle the most with lands. I run the 24 land build, and I either flood out, or have a major mana drought. It is very frustrating to lose constantly due to lack of spells/mana. I have considered going to 22 lands or something because I rarely drought but mostly flood, even though in the back of my mind, I know that is insane.
I recently went 5-0 in a competitive league. I bested Mono G Tron, Grixis Death Shadow, Mono G Tron, Merfolk, and Humans. All games were difficult. I was very proud of my achievement. Then the very next league, I go 0-5, losing to Death Shadow and Mono G Tron 4 straight times!
Anyways, sorry for the rant/whatever I just posted lol. Keep up the good discussion and I would like to thank FlyingDelver in particular. You're match up analysis is very accurate and I study it everyday, it has made the Jund game much more clearer for me.
If you guys could give me any heads up or tips, I would greatly appreciate it. I am in the process of trying to find a locals around me that plays Modern format that actually fits my schedule. I think I finally found a place that my girlfriend and I can go to a couple of times a month and we are excited.
For quite a long running 13 or even 12 creature spells was quite common. The Raging Ravines are a kind of 4 drop creature as well don't forget. And against certain decks the Lili's are very real threats as well.
If an aggro creature meta is expected then a creature-light deck build is a better choice than a 14 or 15 creature build for sure. Think like Affinity, Infect, Humans, and so on.
Is there any merrit to running just 13 creatures in favor of more removal instead of 14? (In 25 land build with 4 manlands)
Man, I’d hate to not be able to find a clock when you need it. That already happens to me sometimes with 14 creatures. There’s just a lot of inevitability out there. Personally I wouldn’t want to play less. Just my $0.02
Hey guys, I have been lurking here for several years now. I just thought I would finally post because I feel that I have enough games of Jund to actually be somewhat knowledgeable.
The deck is extremely difficult to pilot. My girlfriend plays Burn, so she finishes her games quickly and easily. With this deck, no game is easy I have found. This deck also seems to have wild swings of power and despair. I'll finish a league 4-1 or 5-0. Then the next league, I'll finish 0-5. Very odd. I seem to struggle the most with lands. I run the 24 land build, and I either flood out, or have a major mana drought. It is very frustrating to lose constantly due to lack of spells/mana. I have considered going to 22 lands or something because I rarely drought but mostly flood, even though in the back of my mind, I know that is insane.
I recently went 5-0 in a competitive league. I bested Mono G Tron, Grixis Death Shadow, Mono G Tron, Merfolk, and Humans. All games were difficult. I was very proud of my achievement. Then the very next league, I go 0-5, losing to Death Shadow and Mono G Tron 4 straight times!
Anyways, sorry for the rant/whatever I just posted lol. Keep up the good discussion and I would like to thank FlyingDelver in particular. You're match up analysis is very accurate and I study it everyday, it has made the Jund game much more clearer for me.
If you guys could give me any heads up or tips, I would greatly appreciate it. I am in the process of trying to find a locals around me that plays Modern format that actually fits my schedule. I think I finally found a place that my girlfriend and I can go to a couple of times a month and we are excited.
Jund em out fellas!
Great to have you here, and nice on the 5-0 finish! Don't worry about the 0-5, that happens. Since we play fair magic, we are signing up for that kind of variance naturally. The best thing to do is focus on your overall win% record among all matches you play, that is more accurate of how the deck will on average perform. Having a spreadsheet with all data in it helps for that.
If you are interested in an compact SB guide, the link is in the primer, which you can download and use on the fly.
For quite a long running 13 or even 12 creature spells was quite common. The Raging Ravines are a kind of 4 drop creature as well don't forget. And against certain decks the Lili's are very real threats as well.
If an aggro creature meta is expected then a creature-light deck build is a better choice than a 14 or 15 creature build for sure. Think like Affinity, Infect, Humans, and so on.
The format has evolved quite a bit though. Now don't get me wrong, this is simply my personal stance on how to approach the format given my understanding of it. I'm not making the argument that running less than 14 creatures is inherently wrong.
Here's how I approach it:
We've always had those matchups where we've had to race because the opposing decks have inevitability on their side. Big mana, Burn, decks like that. You can disrupt all you want, but if you don't stick a threat and start turning it sideways, they're eventually going to win. Other than those and their ilk, we used to be able to sit back and play the control game and do Jund things until our one card was better than our opponents. But things are different now. The combo decks are way more resilient. They don't just fizzle out after being stifled the first go round. The aggro decks (including Humans and Spirits) are so aggressive now (and resilient) that they have inevitability on their side too. If you're not getting in for a little damage along the way with your creature, they're going to eventually get there, no matter how much you try to disrupt them. Shoot, even Elves have Shaman of the Pack that'll get you eventually. There's all these pseudo-burn decks too now that have that same inevitability. And swinging turn-5 with your Raging Ravine just isn't going to cut it. Jadine wrote an article a while back about this same sort of thing.
Now I'm not suggesting that a 13-creature deck won't be able to swing 'til turn-5 while a 14-creature deck will. All I'm saying is the way I personally deal with this (the format as I understand it) is by making sure I have enough creatures so that I'm more or less assured I'll have something to turn sideways for incremental damage along the way. I've lost too many games I should have won just because I wasn't getting in for chip damage or couldn't find a threat at all. I don't want to go below 14 creatures. I even miss the 2x Grim Flayer sometimes. I'm a fan of putting extra critters in our flex spots for utility. Grim Lavamancer, for example. He's pseudo-removal, but can also swing for 1 starting early, or hit 'em with that 2 damage reach. Tireless Tracker too. She's great CA for our grindy MU's, but can also get in there like a boss.
If I was expecting a meta full of Infect and Affinity, sure, I'd probably cut a creature for an extra removal spell.
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Hey guys, I really need some help figuring this deck out. I know I went 5-0 a week ago but since then, I have not won a match. I have gone 0-5 3 straight times. I really wonder if this deck is for me. I know at a couple of the card shops, the employees who work there but also play modern, say that Jund is not really a good deck but just a way to show off that you have wealth. I know they are wrong for the most part, but after going 0-15, winning only 3 single games in that span, I am starting to question myself and this entire thread. My record online is 40-112, a winning percentage of just barely 26%.
I seem to constantly flood. I chant land every time I top deck and it is almost always a land. I play 24, I think if I want to continue to try and play this deck, then I will have to cut to 22 lands. I just cannot handle flooding anymore. This land problem is just absolutely devastating.
What is a good hand to keep? When do you know when you need to mulligan to 6? I understand about you want to see a discard, then bob or goyf, but I mostly seem to open 4-6 lands with a couple of 3 or 4 CMC cards.
I really enjoy modern and MTG and I want to be a better player. I don't want to play a no brain deck like bogles or Tron but maybe I need to. I'll take any advice I can. Send some luck my way too if you can.
How long have you been playing and how often? It's a challenging deck to pilot because you need to understand the meta, the opposing deck's strategy and weaknesses, and the optimal sequences and branching decisions to make. You rarely "annihilate" or have a lopsided win in your favor - the deck isn't going to give you that experience like an infect deck might have over I dunno, KCI, or something. But you can win.
I don't know about others - but it took me easily a year to begin to do well with the deck (granted I was new to Modern) and another year to begin to *consistently* do well and winning small tournaments. I've been playing the deck for at least 4 years I think it is? My match count is in the thousands - last I checked I had an average match percentage win of I think it was low or mid 70's over the course of that time (not including that first year)? Most of it at my LGS and local tournament scene (I'm not a GP grinder or aspire to be a "pro"). That's quite statistically good - Jund's strength for me has it's been its consistency and I like to pilot it. Success and the measure of it *for me* is over the course of a big sample set and large span of time - not some 15 round GP or what have you.
Hey guys, I really need some help figuring this deck out. I know I went 5-0 a week ago but since then, I have not won a match. I have gone 0-5 3 straight times. I really wonder if this deck is for me. I know at a couple of the card shops, the employees who work there but also play modern, say that Jund is not really a good deck but just a way to show off that you have wealth. I know they are wrong for the most part, but after going 0-15, winning only 3 single games in that span, I am starting to question myself and this entire thread. My record online is 40-112, a winning percentage of just barely 26%.
I seem to constantly flood. I chant land every time I top deck and it is almost always a land. I play 24, I think if I want to continue to try and play this deck, then I will have to cut to 22 lands. I just cannot handle flooding anymore. This land problem is just absolutely devastating.
What is a good hand to keep? When do you know when you need to mulligan to 6? I understand about you want to see a discard, then bob or goyf, but I mostly seem to open 4-6 lands with a couple of 3 or 4 CMC cards.
I really enjoy modern and MTG and I want to be a better player. I don't want to play a no brain deck like bogles or Tron but maybe I need to. I'll take any advice I can. Send some luck my way too if you can.
[quote from="PremiumShine »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/770899-jund?comment=6820"]How long have you been playing and how often? It's a challenging deck to pilot because you need to understand the meta, the opposing deck's strategy and weaknesses, and the optimal sequences and branching decisions to make. You rarely "annihilate" or have a lopsided win in your favor - the deck isn't going to give you that experience like an infect deck might have over I dunno, KCI, or something. But you can win.
I don't know about others - but it took me easily a year to begin to do well with the deck (granted I was new to Modern) and another year to begin to *consistently* do well and winning small tournaments. I've been playing the deck for at least 4 years I think it is? My match count is in the thousands - last I checked I had an average match percentage win of I think it was low or mid 70's over the course of that time (not including that first year)? Most of it at my LGS and local tournament scene (I'm not a GP grinder or aspire to be a "pro"). That's quite statistically good - Jund's strength for me has it's been its consistency and I like to pilot it. Success and the measure of it *for me* is over the course of a big sample set and large span of time - not some 15 round GP or what have you. [quote from="PremiumShine »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/770899-jund?comment=6820"]
Thanks for the reply, I am glad to see I am not the only one who has struggled to figure this deck out.
I have been playing Jund for about a year off and on. I am not expecting to have lopsided wins, I know what I signed up for. I pay attention to the meta by watching Star City games replays from their modern tours. Those videos allow me to analyze the other decks, discover their strengths and weaknesses, which has helped me immensely.
I think the biggest thing I am missing right now, the missing link I suppose, is how to mulligan correctly. How many lands is normal to keep? Am I supposed to keep 4-5 lands and try to win off a single Bob/Goyf in my starting hand?
I think the biggest thing I am missing right now, the missing link I suppose, is how to mulligan correctly. How many lands is normal to keep? Am I supposed to keep 4-5 lands and try to win off a single Bob/Goyf in my starting hand?
The "problem" with this deck is that the answers here aren't so clear cut. The hardest part is most definitely what to keep against an unknown opponent - for the most part I like to keep hands that I can envision winning a game of magic with against *some* part of the field. That is don't keep a hand thinking "If I'm against Cheerios I'll win, otherwise I'll likely loose". Besides the fact that almost any hand you have wins against the deck, it is barely played. But if you keep a hand thinking "This will win against aggro, but likely loose in the mirror or against control" - I think that is a fine keep in the dark. In the dark I want a hand of at least 2 lands that can play a 2 mana spell on turn 2. I'd much rather keep 3 lands into LotV - but you can't always have you what wish for.
TL;DR - you need to build up an idea of what constitutes a hand that have the possibility of winning games, and which opponents it wins against. In GP Atlanta this year, in Round 2 I believe, Reid Duke plays Abzan vs Abzan (unknown opponent) - keeps a hand full of creature lands (5 lands), IoK into Muderous Cut on the play. This can easily look like a horrible hand, but he keeps - and takes down the game no question. I can't imagine he was happy about that keep - but rather I envision that he keeps the hand thinking - I got discard and a removal spell and a bunch of "creatures". I win the grindy games and likely loose against combo and aggro.
@MajorRiot : i always think mulligan with BGX was pretty easy. Here some basic tips :
-mulligan if you have only 1 lands or 5+ lands. I think you can keep discard+bob or LotV OTP with 5 lands and no raging ravine.
-keep if you have a turn 1 and a 2-drop or LotV.
-a hand with 0 early threat is pretty ok OTD because against aggro decks spam disruption is good.
-in general you just mulligan hand with 0 threats (ravine is a threat) except if you disruption suite is perfect (3 lands + discard + bolt + k.cmd + trophy) by example
-full creatures hand are mulligan in G1, i think you always need a disruption spell.
You can show some complicated hands to mulligan.
I can give you some examples from my week-end :
-2 kalitas, k.cmd, 4 lands. Should mulligan, too high costs (G1 vs merfolk)
-ravine, 3 lands, thoughtseize, k.cmd, bolt. Keep (G1 vs affinity)
-3 lands, inqui, thoughtseize, k.cmd, trophy. average keep (G2 vs titanshift) because i can disrupt all valakut threats with that hand but it's risky.
-2 raging ravine, bolt, bob, k.cmd, tarmo, kalitas (G2 OTD vs Jund) . average keep but 3 turns to draw black mana is mathematically correct.
Thanks for this post and advice. I really appreciate it and it made things more clear. Sadly, I just went 0-5 again in another league, so the streak is now 0-20. I have been playing vs a wide range of stuff, but I never seem to get the sideboared cards or my opponent just plays through them because their hands are so good. Flooding is still a problem sometimes. I am going to do cartwheels when I finally win a match. The last league I went 0-5 was vs Mono G Tron, Infinite mana, Mono G Tron, Hardened Scales, and Bridgevine. I won one game vs the Bridgevine player.
@MajorRiot : i am sad for you man !
But i am not surprise, a friend played for the first time Jund some weeks ago in a IRL tournament => 0-7. The deck is pretty skill intensive and you have no free game, never except if your opponent flood/mana screw. I think it's a nice deck to win a lot of XP because you try to interact in every match but right now it's one of the worst deck to easily win. If i can give you an advice i give at people which says me they want begin to play BGX/mardu : don't do that if you want win games now, pick humans, spirits, burn, tron, any graveyard aggro deck, well even control or storm or creatures combo is less risky now than BGX.
By the way, Rock is maybe/probably better now and a little bit easy to play because your manabase is far better.
My losing streak finally ended! I managed to defeat Hollow One and Jeskai Control, so now I am on a winning streak. I know about how difficult Jund is to win consistently with but I did want a challenge rather than something more simple such as Burn or Tron. I just did not expect to struggle so bad for so long. Humans is an appealing deck but I want to stick with Jund for at least another 3 months, I'm not going to abandon it because I am a scrub.
+100 !
What list do you play ?
Maybe it can help to understand some results.
I play this build for the most part. I only run 2 Ooze and I have a Liliana, Last Hope in the main. Sideboard is also different but similar. I tried cutting maelstrom pulse but I like the card too much. Been thinking about cutting Last Hope and maybe a Bloodbraid for one more Ooze and a 3 K command. I have found Ooze to either be super good or super bad lol
+100 !
What list do you play ?
Maybe it can help to understand some results.
I play this build for the most part. I only run 2 Ooze and I have a Liliana, Last Hope in the main. Sideboard is also different but similar. I tried cutting maelstrom pulse but I like the card too much. Been thinking about cutting Last Hope and maybe a Bloodbraid for one more Ooze and a 3 K command. I have found Ooze to either be super good or super bad lol
Man I couldn’t imagine running less than 3x Scavenging Ooze right now. Between all the Graveyard strategies and Aggro decks and Graveyard/Burn/Aggro decks (i.e., any of the many iterations of Phoenix decks) going around he feels crucial. Not to mention he’s a catch-all for so many other decks (e.g., KCI, Storm, Mardu Pyromancer, etc.). I would definitely cut something for the third unless your LGS meta looks way different than what I’ve been seeing at my LGS and online.
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I wish we had a 4-drop Planeswalker that just generally kicked a** like Lili does in the 3-drop slot. I wish we had Tamiyo, Field Researcher. I’m obsessed with making a home for her in a Bant Midrange brew (I need SFM). I love bad (i.e., Fair/Midrange) strategies.
But seriously, out of curiosity, if Tamiyo was BRG instead of GWU, would you run her?
I certainly would, and here’s why:
-Her +1 makes for incredible CA and can act as pseudo-self-protection by targeting your opponent’s creatures so that if they swing at her at least she replaces her self (and then some). Also gets rid of Phantasmal Images.
-Her -2 can make two of your opponent’s creatures (or other nonland permanents) not only unable to attack their next turn, but unable to block for two of your turns.
-Her -7 wins the game.
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Hey, I'm new here. Nice to meet you.
I tried to ask this on disqus but there wasn't much discussion on it so I wasnt to ask it here instead hoping for more discussion
Would a black version of serum vision be good in jund. Would it make jund at least tier 1.5 since it help with our consistency because I think that the only thing stopping jund from being a top tier deck.
Guys and gals I need some advice. I go to a very small FNM, usually around 8 to 10 people and I have done fairly well off and on with a couple of decks. Having said that, there is one deck that I don't want to loose to; Mono white Eldrazi and taxes. Pretty typical build and I went looking for decks that I think have a good matchup against it and also play well to the field. I already have all the expensive cards for Jund and below is what I am thinking of taking. Again, I don't want to loose to this deck under normal draws. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My thought is that torpor orb could be very good. Lastly, the other decks I have seen is elves, burn, bug boggles, grixis control and jank. My goal was to have a deck that can play against the field but tweaked a bit to win against mono white eldrazi and taxes.
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
Man, I’d hate to not be able to find a clock when you need it. That already happens to me sometimes with 14 creatures. There’s just a lot of inevitability out there. Personally I wouldn’t want to play less. Just my $0.02
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The deck is extremely difficult to pilot. My girlfriend plays Burn, so she finishes her games quickly and easily. With this deck, no game is easy I have found. This deck also seems to have wild swings of power and despair. I'll finish a league 4-1 or 5-0. Then the next league, I'll finish 0-5. Very odd. I seem to struggle the most with lands. I run the 24 land build, and I either flood out, or have a major mana drought. It is very frustrating to lose constantly due to lack of spells/mana. I have considered going to 22 lands or something because I rarely drought but mostly flood, even though in the back of my mind, I know that is insane.
I recently went 5-0 in a competitive league. I bested Mono G Tron, Grixis Death Shadow, Mono G Tron, Merfolk, and Humans. All games were difficult. I was very proud of my achievement. Then the very next league, I go 0-5, losing to Death Shadow and Mono G Tron 4 straight times!
Anyways, sorry for the rant/whatever I just posted lol. Keep up the good discussion and I would like to thank FlyingDelver in particular. You're match up analysis is very accurate and I study it everyday, it has made the Jund game much more clearer for me.
If you guys could give me any heads up or tips, I would greatly appreciate it. I am in the process of trying to find a locals around me that plays Modern format that actually fits my schedule. I think I finally found a place that my girlfriend and I can go to a couple of times a month and we are excited.
Jund em out fellas!
If an aggro creature meta is expected then a creature-light deck build is a better choice than a 14 or 15 creature build for sure. Think like Affinity, Infect, Humans, and so on.
Great to have you here, and nice on the 5-0 finish! Don't worry about the 0-5, that happens. Since we play fair magic, we are signing up for that kind of variance naturally. The best thing to do is focus on your overall win% record among all matches you play, that is more accurate of how the deck will on average perform. Having a spreadsheet with all data in it helps for that.
If you are interested in an compact SB guide, the link is in the primer, which you can download and use on the fly.
Merely foolish.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
The format has evolved quite a bit though. Now don't get me wrong, this is simply my personal stance on how to approach the format given my understanding of it. I'm not making the argument that running less than 14 creatures is inherently wrong.
Here's how I approach it:
We've always had those matchups where we've had to race because the opposing decks have inevitability on their side. Big mana, Burn, decks like that. You can disrupt all you want, but if you don't stick a threat and start turning it sideways, they're eventually going to win. Other than those and their ilk, we used to be able to sit back and play the control game and do Jund things until our one card was better than our opponents. But things are different now. The combo decks are way more resilient. They don't just fizzle out after being stifled the first go round. The aggro decks (including Humans and Spirits) are so aggressive now (and resilient) that they have inevitability on their side too. If you're not getting in for a little damage along the way with your creature, they're going to eventually get there, no matter how much you try to disrupt them. Shoot, even Elves have Shaman of the Pack that'll get you eventually. There's all these pseudo-burn decks too now that have that same inevitability. And swinging turn-5 with your Raging Ravine just isn't going to cut it. Jadine wrote an article a while back about this same sort of thing.
Now I'm not suggesting that a 13-creature deck won't be able to swing 'til turn-5 while a 14-creature deck will. All I'm saying is the way I personally deal with this (the format as I understand it) is by making sure I have enough creatures so that I'm more or less assured I'll have something to turn sideways for incremental damage along the way. I've lost too many games I should have won just because I wasn't getting in for chip damage or couldn't find a threat at all. I don't want to go below 14 creatures. I even miss the 2x Grim Flayer sometimes. I'm a fan of putting extra critters in our flex spots for utility. Grim Lavamancer, for example. He's pseudo-removal, but can also swing for 1 starting early, or hit 'em with that 2 damage reach. Tireless Tracker too. She's great CA for our grindy MU's, but can also get in there like a boss.
If I was expecting a meta full of Infect and Affinity, sure, I'd probably cut a creature for an extra removal spell.
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BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I seem to constantly flood. I chant land every time I top deck and it is almost always a land. I play 24, I think if I want to continue to try and play this deck, then I will have to cut to 22 lands. I just cannot handle flooding anymore. This land problem is just absolutely devastating.
What is a good hand to keep? When do you know when you need to mulligan to 6? I understand about you want to see a discard, then bob or goyf, but I mostly seem to open 4-6 lands with a couple of 3 or 4 CMC cards.
I really enjoy modern and MTG and I want to be a better player. I don't want to play a no brain deck like bogles or Tron but maybe I need to. I'll take any advice I can. Send some luck my way too if you can.
I don't know about others - but it took me easily a year to begin to do well with the deck (granted I was new to Modern) and another year to begin to *consistently* do well and winning small tournaments. I've been playing the deck for at least 4 years I think it is? My match count is in the thousands - last I checked I had an average match percentage win of I think it was low or mid 70's over the course of that time (not including that first year)? Most of it at my LGS and local tournament scene (I'm not a GP grinder or aspire to be a "pro"). That's quite statistically good - Jund's strength for me has it's been its consistency and I like to pilot it. Success and the measure of it *for me* is over the course of a big sample set and large span of time - not some 15 round GP or what have you.
I don't know about others - but it took me easily a year to begin to do well with the deck (granted I was new to Modern) and another year to begin to *consistently* do well and winning small tournaments. I've been playing the deck for at least 4 years I think it is? My match count is in the thousands - last I checked I had an average match percentage win of I think it was low or mid 70's over the course of that time (not including that first year)? Most of it at my LGS and local tournament scene (I'm not a GP grinder or aspire to be a "pro"). That's quite statistically good - Jund's strength for me has it's been its consistency and I like to pilot it. Success and the measure of it *for me* is over the course of a big sample set and large span of time - not some 15 round GP or what have you. [quote from="PremiumShine »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/770899-jund?comment=6820"]
Thanks for the reply, I am glad to see I am not the only one who has struggled to figure this deck out.
I have been playing Jund for about a year off and on. I am not expecting to have lopsided wins, I know what I signed up for. I pay attention to the meta by watching Star City games replays from their modern tours. Those videos allow me to analyze the other decks, discover their strengths and weaknesses, which has helped me immensely.
I think the biggest thing I am missing right now, the missing link I suppose, is how to mulligan correctly. How many lands is normal to keep? Am I supposed to keep 4-5 lands and try to win off a single Bob/Goyf in my starting hand?
The "problem" with this deck is that the answers here aren't so clear cut. The hardest part is most definitely what to keep against an unknown opponent - for the most part I like to keep hands that I can envision winning a game of magic with against *some* part of the field. That is don't keep a hand thinking "If I'm against Cheerios I'll win, otherwise I'll likely loose". Besides the fact that almost any hand you have wins against the deck, it is barely played. But if you keep a hand thinking "This will win against aggro, but likely loose in the mirror or against control" - I think that is a fine keep in the dark. In the dark I want a hand of at least 2 lands that can play a 2 mana spell on turn 2. I'd much rather keep 3 lands into LotV - but you can't always have you what wish for.
TL;DR - you need to build up an idea of what constitutes a hand that have the possibility of winning games, and which opponents it wins against. In GP Atlanta this year, in Round 2 I believe, Reid Duke plays Abzan vs Abzan (unknown opponent) - keeps a hand full of creature lands (5 lands), IoK into Muderous Cut on the play. This can easily look like a horrible hand, but he keeps - and takes down the game no question. I can't imagine he was happy about that keep - but rather I envision that he keeps the hand thinking - I got discard and a removal spell and a bunch of "creatures". I win the grindy games and likely loose against combo and aggro.
Thanks for this post and advice. I really appreciate it and it made things more clear. Sadly, I just went 0-5 again in another league, so the streak is now 0-20. I have been playing vs a wide range of stuff, but I never seem to get the sideboared cards or my opponent just plays through them because their hands are so good. Flooding is still a problem sometimes. I am going to do cartwheels when I finally win a match. The last league I went 0-5 was vs Mono G Tron, Infinite mana, Mono G Tron, Hardened Scales, and Bridgevine. I won one game vs the Bridgevine player.
My losing streak finally ended! I managed to defeat Hollow One and Jeskai Control, so now I am on a winning streak. I know about how difficult Jund is to win consistently with but I did want a challenge rather than something more simple such as Burn or Tron. I just did not expect to struggle so bad for so long. Humans is an appealing deck but I want to stick with Jund for at least another 3 months, I'm not going to abandon it because I am a scrub.
I play this build for the most part. I only run 2 Ooze and I have a Liliana, Last Hope in the main. Sideboard is also different but similar. I tried cutting maelstrom pulse but I like the card too much. Been thinking about cutting Last Hope and maybe a Bloodbraid for one more Ooze and a 3 K command. I have found Ooze to either be super good or super bad lol
Man I couldn’t imagine running less than 3x Scavenging Ooze right now. Between all the Graveyard strategies and Aggro decks and Graveyard/Burn/Aggro decks (i.e., any of the many iterations of Phoenix decks) going around he feels crucial. Not to mention he’s a catch-all for so many other decks (e.g., KCI, Storm, Mardu Pyromancer, etc.). I would definitely cut something for the third unless your LGS meta looks way different than what I’ve been seeing at my LGS and online.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
But seriously, out of curiosity, if Tamiyo was BRG instead of GWU, would you run her?
I certainly would, and here’s why:
-Her +1 makes for incredible CA and can act as pseudo-self-protection by targeting your opponent’s creatures so that if they swing at her at least she replaces her self (and then some). Also gets rid of Phantasmal Images.
-Her -2 can make two of your opponent’s creatures (or other nonland permanents) not only unable to attack their next turn, but unable to block for two of your turns.
-Her -7 wins the game.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I tried to ask this on disqus but there wasn't much discussion on it so I wasnt to ask it here instead hoping for more discussion
Would a black version of serum vision be good in jund. Would it make jund at least tier 1.5 since it help with our consistency because I think that the only thing stopping jund from being a top tier deck.
Land (24)
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
Creature (15)
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Dark Confidant
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Instant (10)
3x Assassin's Trophy
3x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
Sorcery (6)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (5)
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Sideboard (15)
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Collective Brutality
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Torpor Orb
Again any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.