Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.
Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.
Seriously, you're probably the best thread moderator in the modern established decks, most of them here are seriously outdated and not maintained at all.
Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.
Seriously, you're probably the best thread moderator in the modern established decks, most of them here are seriously outdated and not maintained at all.
Seriously, you're probably the best thread moderator in the modern established decks, most of them here are seriously outdated and not maintained at all.
It takes quite an amount of time to maintain and manage these threads. I appreciate it!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
@FlyingDelver : again not agree with all but very nice work and yes you really are one of the best thread moderator.
Moreover do you have some feedback on your MD kalitas if you play it now ? A seconde one seems crazy or ok in a aggro metagame ?
I like the Kalitas main. It really always felt like a huge bomb whenever I drew it. And being able to handle the dredge matchup singlehandedly (at least possibly) is a nice bonus. In a heavy aggro meta I think a second Kalitas seems like a nice idea. Before the unban of BBE, Kalitas often was our go to 4 drop and we did run 2 copies in the main at times. Of course it has its weak matchups, but for a metagame hedge he is really strong.
Seriously, you're probably the best thread moderator in the modern established decks, most of them here are seriously outdated and not maintained at all.
100% agree with this.
Just want to echo these thoughts. Have been playing Jund in Modern for just about as long as I've been a member of these forums, and have always poked my head into the Jund thread. I'm not often an active participant but check in from time to time. Since you've taken over, each time I come things have been updated or refreshed and are always pertinent and timely. Kudos, and THANK YOU.
Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.
Good job, but some matchups missed. What about Amulet Titan, Death and Taxes, BW Eldrazi?
Having some doubt regarding siding out Inquisition of Kozilek.
I understand that we are siding out inquisition vs some matchup that will :
1. grind and topdeck war in long game except for blue control decks (midrange)
2. fast and aggro and able to dump hand very fast (affinity)
3. 3cmc & below card are extremely less (eldrazi variance)
But i discovered from the sb guide that is LoK bad against company deck as well? If siding out, how many copy to side out? eg. Counter company, bant company, elves etc.
Played a lot of Jund for the first time in a while
...I really wasn't super impressed with Trophy. Killing someone with it in the first 3 turns just feels AWFUL. I can see why Reid Duke declared it was just an "ok" card. Playing so extremely fair tonight felt really difficult.
But, hey, over the course of the game I've had the best results with it.
Played a lot of Jund for the first time in a while
...I really wasn't super impressed with Trophy. Killing someone with it in the first 3 turns just feels AWFUL. I can see why Reid Duke declared it was just an "ok" card. Playing so extremely fair tonight felt really difficult.
But, hey, over the course of the game I've had the best results with it.
Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.
Good job, but some matchups missed. What about Amulet Titan, Death and Taxes, BW Eldrazi?
I will add those matchups gradually over time depending on their popularity in the format.
Having some doubt regarding siding out Inquisition of Kozilek.
I understand that we are siding out inquisition vs some matchup that will :
1. grind and topdeck war in long game except for blue control decks (midrange)
2. fast and aggro and able to dump hand very fast (affinity)
3. 3cmc & below card are extremely less (eldrazi variance)
But i discovered from the sb guide that is LoK bad against company deck as well? If siding out, how many copy to side out? eg. Counter company, bant company, elves etc.
Its because those matchups are attrition based. Like in the mirror your discard spells are terrible topdecks. You can decide to only cut a few copies (like 2-3) and leave some copies in though. If you do that though, that means you are deciding to not commit to a full grindy gameplan. This would make sense if you feel that your opponent is stronger in grinding (which a deck like GW Company certainly is) which means you are the aggressor then.
Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.
Good job, but some matchups missed. What about Amulet Titan, Death and Taxes, BW Eldrazi?
I will add those matchups gradually over time depending on their popularity in the format.
Having some doubt regarding siding out Inquisition of Kozilek.
I understand that we are siding out inquisition vs some matchup that will :
1. grind and topdeck war in long game except for blue control decks (midrange)
2. fast and aggro and able to dump hand very fast (affinity)
3. 3cmc & below card are extremely less (eldrazi variance)
But i discovered from the sb guide that is LoK bad against company deck as well? If siding out, how many copy to side out? eg. Counter company, bant company, elves etc.
Its because those matchups are attrition based. Like in the mirror your discard spells are terrible topdecks. You can decide to only cut a few copies (like 2-3) and leave some copies in though. If you do that though, that means you are deciding to not commit to a full grindy gameplan. This would make sense if you feel that your opponent is stronger in grinding (which a deck like GW Company certainly is) which means you are the aggressor then.
Thank you for your fast response, I begin to understand how those attribution deck works, please correct me if I am wrong here.
Their playstyle is most likely midrange swingy deck, play dork and ramp mana turn 2 into 3 cmc threat, and can even choose to go wide to kill opponent without rely on combo-ing and could switch to a value deck where they also could play 2 for 1 value stuff such as Voice of Resurgence, finks, Eternal Witness, Collected Company to bury their opponent.
They could possible play their value cards before turn 4 or 5 and all their hand left with some valueless card or redundant cards. This is where there is a dilemma on Inquisition's role here. Inquisition still isn't bad as it serve turn 1 discard to review information as well as grab a value / combo piece / destroying their next curve. Hence, game 2 we try to reduce 2 copies of IoK but not all of it since we are leaving 4 discard anyway (2 IoK 2 TS) still hope to draw them on turn 1-2 to discard their stuff in early game. But since they are clearing off hand and try to play their stuff few turn later and we are most probably end in topdeck war if we are able to survive from their early swarm with single removals. And IoK is not much relevent here.
Played a lot of Jund for the first time in a while
...I really wasn't super impressed with Trophy. Killing someone with it in the first 3 turns just feels AWFUL. I can see why Reid Duke declared it was just an "ok" card. Playing so extremely fair tonight felt really difficult.
But, hey, over the course of the game I've had the best results with it.
With tribal aggro being so dominant it makes sense to have more 1 drops. Big Mana is on the rise so cutting Fulminators seems like an awful idea. Graveyard is plentiful.
There's this lack of good matchups, they've gone away. Spot removal used to be so devastating to these creature decks. Combo outside of KCI and Storm is down so LOTV gets worse. Graveyard decks are very dependent on drawing the right cards.
The meta is general feels kinda weird. Nothing is super sticking out to me as what to play.
I assume the 60th card is either a second KCommand or a Pulse?
In any case, I really like this list, its close to mine, I only like to run a second Push over the Seal, but other than that I am definitely agreeing on your choices overall.
Been busy brewing/playing Jund Dragons in EDH. It’s hard for me to get out of those colors. I think I’ve gotten spoiled from how powerful BRG’s individual spells can be!
Delver, I love the quick SB guide. I should know my MU’s by now but I’m kind of an on-and-off player so I forget and find myself digging through your Primer after game-one’s. That new guide will help a lot. And I wanted to echo what the other guys said. I kind of take this primer for granted until I go to most any of the other ones for other decks I play, and realize that the quality and thoroughness of yours is not the norm. I appreciate it.
Spsiegel, nice to see you being a glutton for punishment again and playing BGx. It may not be where the W’s are at, but it’s always where it’s at. I was looking at your list and was curious about something. Why Seal of Fire instead of Tarfire? I’m assuming it’s because you can ‘set it and forget it’, where it doesn’t require any mana if you use it in during some subsequent turn? Like hitting a 5-toughness creature with it and Bolt without requiring RR? I guess it’s kind of uncounterable too in some sense. But how often (besides maybe turn-1) are you going to be able to play it without using it immediately? The obvious pro I see for Tarfire is getting two card types in the yard at once with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
@Piney_Tinecones Thanks for your nice words, I am happy my primer and SB Guide still helps up to this point!
As for Seal, the big advantage is that you can always sneak it in in order to use your mana efficiently and curve out properly. Its a great card in that sense, as mana efficiency is one of the big big aspects about performing well with Jund. However, it looses the instant speed aspect a bit, which often could be a blowout for the opponent as they see it coming. Giving them a way to play around it makes it a bit worse. So those are the differences which are important. Goyf getting bigger is accomplished by both cards so its even in that aspect.
Out of curiosity, has anyone playtested the new vraksa in either jund or the rock? It does basically everything we’d want out of a planeswalker. I could see it being really powerful, but I could also see it being just generally less powerful than either tracker or BBE. Seems like it would be fun to you with at the very least, just not sure how good it is.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
I've also wanted to tinker with it, but I just haven't had the time. On the surface, it doesn't really fix anything, but the modes just generally seem useful.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Much apreciated!
Thanks guys, that means a lot
I like the Kalitas main. It really always felt like a huge bomb whenever I drew it. And being able to handle the dredge matchup singlehandedly (at least possibly) is a nice bonus. In a heavy aggro meta I think a second Kalitas seems like a nice idea. Before the unban of BBE, Kalitas often was our go to 4 drop and we did run 2 copies in the main at times. Of course it has its weak matchups, but for a metagame hedge he is really strong.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Good job, but some matchups missed. What about Amulet Titan, Death and Taxes, BW Eldrazi?
My YouTube MTG Channel
Temur Tooth and Nail (feat. Kiora, Master of the Depths) deck topic and reddit thread.
Having some doubt regarding siding out Inquisition of Kozilek.
I understand that we are siding out inquisition vs some matchup that will :
1. grind and topdeck war in long game except for blue control decks (midrange)
2. fast and aggro and able to dump hand very fast (affinity)
3. 3cmc & below card are extremely less (eldrazi variance)
But i discovered from the sb guide that is LoK bad against company deck as well? If siding out, how many copy to side out? eg. Counter company, bant company, elves etc.
...I really wasn't super impressed with Trophy. Killing someone with it in the first 3 turns just feels AWFUL. I can see why Reid Duke declared it was just an "ok" card. Playing so extremely fair tonight felt really difficult.
But, hey, over the course of the game I've had the best results with it.
May I have your list?
I will add those matchups gradually over time depending on their popularity in the format.
Its because those matchups are attrition based. Like in the mirror your discard spells are terrible topdecks. You can decide to only cut a few copies (like 2-3) and leave some copies in though. If you do that though, that means you are deciding to not commit to a full grindy gameplan. This would make sense if you feel that your opponent is stronger in grinding (which a deck like GW Company certainly is) which means you are the aggressor then.
Thank you for your fast response, I begin to understand how those attribution deck works, please correct me if I am wrong here.
Their playstyle is most likely midrange swingy deck, play dork and ramp mana turn 2 into 3 cmc threat, and can even choose to go wide to kill opponent without rely on combo-ing and could switch to a value deck where they also could play 2 for 1 value stuff such as Voice of Resurgence, finks, Eternal Witness, Collected Company to bury their opponent.
They could possible play their value cards before turn 4 or 5 and all their hand left with some valueless card or redundant cards. This is where there is a dilemma on Inquisition's role here. Inquisition still isn't bad as it serve turn 1 discard to review information as well as grab a value / combo piece / destroying their next curve. Hence, game 2 we try to reduce 2 copies of IoK but not all of it since we are leaving 4 discard anyway (2 IoK 2 TS) still hope to draw them on turn 1-2 to discard their stuff in early game. But since they are clearing off hand and try to play their stuff few turn later and we are most probably end in topdeck war if we are able to survive from their early swarm with single removals. And IoK is not much relevent here.
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Blood Crypt
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Twilight Mire
3x Raging Ravine
1x Treetop Village
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Dark Confidant
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Bloodbraid Elf
Spells
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Fatal Push
1x Seal of Fire
3x Assassin's Trophy
1x Kolaghan's Command
Planeswalkers
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
1x Angrath, the Flame-Chained
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
With tribal aggro being so dominant it makes sense to have more 1 drops. Big Mana is on the rise so cutting Fulminators seems like an awful idea. Graveyard is plentiful.
There's this lack of good matchups, they've gone away. Spot removal used to be so devastating to these creature decks. Combo outside of KCI and Storm is down so LOTV gets worse. Graveyard decks are very dependent on drawing the right cards.
The meta is general feels kinda weird. Nothing is super sticking out to me as what to play.
In any case, I really like this list, its close to mine, I only like to run a second Push over the Seal, but other than that I am definitely agreeing on your choices overall.
Delver, I love the quick SB guide. I should know my MU’s by now but I’m kind of an on-and-off player so I forget and find myself digging through your Primer after game-one’s. That new guide will help a lot. And I wanted to echo what the other guys said. I kind of take this primer for granted until I go to most any of the other ones for other decks I play, and realize that the quality and thoroughness of yours is not the norm. I appreciate it.
Spsiegel, nice to see you being a glutton for punishment again and playing BGx. It may not be where the W’s are at, but it’s always where it’s at. I was looking at your list and was curious about something. Why Seal of Fire instead of Tarfire? I’m assuming it’s because you can ‘set it and forget it’, where it doesn’t require any mana if you use it in during some subsequent turn? Like hitting a 5-toughness creature with it and Bolt without requiring RR? I guess it’s kind of uncounterable too in some sense. But how often (besides maybe turn-1) are you going to be able to play it without using it immediately? The obvious pro I see for Tarfire is getting two card types in the yard at once with it.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
As for Seal, the big advantage is that you can always sneak it in in order to use your mana efficiently and curve out properly. Its a great card in that sense, as mana efficiency is one of the big big aspects about performing well with Jund. However, it looses the instant speed aspect a bit, which often could be a blowout for the opponent as they see it coming. Giving them a way to play around it makes it a bit worse. So those are the differences which are important. Goyf getting bigger is accomplished by both cards so its even in that aspect.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh