I thought I posted this as a response already but I guess I didn't send....
Do any of you feel like Leyline of the Void might be a trap? The dredge decks seem to be packing a ton of anti-hate (4 Assassin's Trophy and 4 Nature's Claim) in the sideboard.
There could be an argument for that. I remembered talking about that exact issue back when golgari grave troll was a thing, and my point was that they don't extent considerable resources when they see a leyline on the table, and just wait for the removal spell.
Spellbomb can potentially do more likely a guaranteed harm in terms of denying resources rather than just gaining time, if we assume they spend some resources on turn 1 and then we slam a spellbomb. But leyline does of course prevent explosive starts and is a safer bet overall to not get ran over.
For that reason I like GY and combo hate which is not susceptible to removal. Similar things go for Cage in that sense. I know my spellbomb will always do something and also my surgical. Its just that I don't have this turn 0 interaction that I am missing.
I feel if dredge fades away the trophy and surgical combo sounds nice. I dont think surgical is enough for dredge though.
I'd count on the meta overcorrecting to beat dredge.
Another casualty of dredge at the moment is the Frenzy builds. They probably don't seem like it at first glance, but they're very GY reliant with your best threats being Grim Flayer, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, and Grim Lavamancer. Good GY hate shuts them all down.
I feel if dredge fades away the trophy and surgical combo sounds nice. I dont think surgical is enough for dredge though.
I'd count on the meta overcorrecting to beat dredge.
Another casualty of dredge at the moment is the Frenzy builds. They probably don't seem like it at first glance, but they're very GY reliant with your best threats being Grim Flayer, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, and Grim Lavamancer. Good GY hate shuts them all down.
This is why I havent been a fan of grim flayer, it makes our deck that much weaker to grave hate. It's why i never bought into traverse abzan and all that jazz. Those decks are better when bigger non gy is a thing.
Pulse could also be someting else, I even thought about maindecking one CB. But its a flexible slot that you can turn into anything, except a 4 drop imo.
Thats more what I had in mind. I'd play around with that 1x last hope, pulse and 1x fatal push spot.
Has the meta really become so harsh that 4x lotv isnt a good idea? And again, I wonder if we could cut our 1x pulse. Itd be nice being low to the ground and so efficient.
Thats more what I had in mind. I'd play around with that 1x last hope, pulse and 1x fatal push spot.
Has the meta really become so harsh that 4x lotv isnt a good idea? And again, I wonder if we could cut our 1x pulse. Itd be nice being low to the ground and so efficient.
It's more of an issue of three drop slots. LotV, LtLH, and Kolaghan's are the three most popular options. Typically, you're wanting around 6 3 drops in total so usually Veil has been trimmed to make room for the others.
I am sure this has been asked somewhere in this massive thread before so please forgive me for failing in my search function efforts.
I am looking to create Jund on somewhat of a budget constraint.
My question is this:
I own x2 Liliana of the Veil and x2 Liliana, The Last Hope.
I see that most lists try to run x3 or x4 LotV and usually only x1 LtLH.
Since I only own two LotV and two LtLH do you think its best to just run a 2 and 2 split of them or run x2 LotV + x1 LtLH and just substitute some more removal and/or aggro such as Grim Flayer/Tireless Tracker/etc?
In short, is LtLH almost always a one-of in Mainboard or is there benefit to considering upping her to x2 to attempt to "poor-mans" replace LoTV?
Related:
I am also trying out some budget options for Dark Confidant. I realize he's the best he is and holds the price he has for a reason, but only owning 1 copy makes it hard. As such I am running the one copy of Bob and trying x2 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner (which I realize is awful, maybe I cut them altogether?)
The big change is Liliana the Last Hope. It's really good, so it tends to fight a lot with Veil. I think there's an argument that you can play 4 veil/1 last hope and fewer Kolaghan's since the deck is going more BG lately with less red. No one has really talked about that type of build though.
I haven't figured out how much Trophy I like. 4 has been really nice in some matchups, but there's merit to 3 as well. What I ended up doing initially was cutting Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Terminus, and Dreadbore (each a 1 of) for 4 Trophy. As time has gone on though, I've been finding certain situations where either Decay or Pulse has value, but I think running both with just 2 Pulse isn't good enough.
Between Hardened Scales and Dredge, these cards are the mainstay of my board at the moment: 4 Leylines, 2 Angers, 2 Grudges. Take a sledgehammer to the matchups.
ancillary question: is it worth it to board in the leylines v hardened scales as well? From what I see, it turns off Ravager, Worker and Hangarback (which is particularly irritating).
There could be an argument for that. I remembered talking about that exact issue back when golgari grave troll was a thing, and my point was that they don't extent considerable resources when they see a leyline on the table, and just wait for the removal spell.
Spellbomb can potentially do more likely a guaranteed harm in terms of denying resources rather than just gaining time, if we assume they spend some resources on turn 1 and then we slam a spellbomb. But leyline does of course prevent explosive starts and is a safer bet overall to not get ran over.
For that reason I like GY and combo hate which is not susceptible to removal. Similar things go for Cage in that sense. I know my spellbomb will always do something and also my surgical. Its just that I don't have this turn 0 interaction that I am missing.
I'd count on the meta overcorrecting to beat dredge.
Another casualty of dredge at the moment is the Frenzy builds. They probably don't seem like it at first glance, but they're very GY reliant with your best threats being Grim Flayer, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, and Grim Lavamancer. Good GY hate shuts them all down.
I dont see a lot of people playing grim lavamancer in the 75 and I dont understand why. The meta seems appropriate
Has anyone thought of cutting bbe to 3x copies, cutting a pulse, and going 24 lands to go a little lower to the ground?
This is why I havent been a fan of grim flayer, it makes our deck that much weaker to grave hate. It's why i never bought into traverse abzan and all that jazz. Those decks are better when bigger non gy is a thing.
This is what I have been doing the whole time exactly.
Here is my list for that approach:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Forest
Creatures [14]
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Damnation
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Duress
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
Pulse could also be someting else, I even thought about maindecking one CB. But its a flexible slot that you can turn into anything, except a 4 drop imo.
Has the meta really become so harsh that 4x lotv isnt a good idea? And again, I wonder if we could cut our 1x pulse. Itd be nice being low to the ground and so efficient.
Yeah sadly Lotv is quite underwhelming lately, for which reason I am a fan of the 3/1 split. Last hope on the other hand continues to be amazing.
It's more of an issue of three drop slots. LotV, LtLH, and Kolaghan's are the three most popular options. Typically, you're wanting around 6 3 drops in total so usually Veil has been trimmed to make room for the others.
I am looking to create Jund on somewhat of a budget constraint.
My question is this:
I own x2 Liliana of the Veil and x2 Liliana, The Last Hope.
I see that most lists try to run x3 or x4 LotV and usually only x1 LtLH.
Since I only own two LotV and two LtLH do you think its best to just run a 2 and 2 split of them or run x2 LotV + x1 LtLH and just substitute some more removal and/or aggro such as Grim Flayer/Tireless Tracker/etc?
In short, is LtLH almost always a one-of in Mainboard or is there benefit to considering upping her to x2 to attempt to "poor-mans" replace LoTV?
Related:
I am also trying out some budget options for Dark Confidant. I realize he's the best he is and holds the price he has for a reason, but only owning 1 copy makes it hard. As such I am running the one copy of Bob and trying x2 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner (which I realize is awful, maybe I cut them altogether?)
Thanks for your attention and possible replies.
What's interesting is how set back abzan is.
ancillary question: is it worth it to board in the leylines v hardened scales as well? From what I see, it turns off Ravager, Worker and Hangarback (which is particularly irritating).