MTG Salvation

I mean theoretically you have a lot to gain from a delirium package to enable traverse, epica. If you'll notice, the *entire* sideboard can be tutored with traverse if delirium is enabled, so you can play these 1-of silver bullets and tutor them up pretty consistently when appropriate. That's not trivial, and it's a big part of the reason why birthing pod was once upon a time one of the top tier decks in the format. I also really like the tech of architects of will being both a 2-type cycler (artifact and creature), and a 4cmc spell that you can't cascade into. If you played bauble instead, you'd almost definitely need to remove the BBEs as cascading into a bauble sounds pretty awful.

Also chaos, I think there's merit to not playing death's shadow. This should theoretically only be a jund deck with a watery grave if you need to cast architects in an emergency. I think the notion thief and maybe also the hostage taker are a bit too cute and should probably be trimmed, at which point you're basically splashing blue for 5-6 cards and 4 of them you never really intend to cast. I think it's reasonable to expect not to take much more damage off your lands per game.

Of course, as with any traverse deck you're probably gonna have a bad time if your opponent casts a rest in peace, starts with leyline of the void, etc. You're not totally dead in the water, but all of your creatures except your 4 drops are gonna be pretty abysmal and you can't even traverse for the cards that don't suck anymore. Not on its own a reason not to play the deck (abzan traverse did just get 2nd at a GP after all), but it's definitely something you have to consider when asking "why play this over standard jund". It looks like a deck that uses the graveyard enough to get moderately hosed by hate, but doesn't abuse the graveyard enough to get free wins if your opponent doesn't draw said hate, and that's kind of the worst spot to be in.

It's a neat idea, has at least gone 5-0 in a modern league, and I think there's enough merit that you should test it out guitar90x. If it turns out to be really good, I'm totally down for playing a deck like that.

I played a lot of Jund DS at the time it became popular at that GP Vancouver, ultimately I always felt delirium is very unreliable. You have matchups where naturally some type of card (like instant vs control or creature vs combo/aggro) won't likely be in the GY for you to help with delirium. Also sideboarding changes things up. Ultimately I personally don't like delirium and especially traverse as your main engine. Its interesting in the latest builds of Abzan Traverse, but I think in Jund we have to work with something else imo.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I played a lot of Jund DS at the time it became popular at that GP Vancouver, ultimately I always felt delirium is very unreliable. You have matchups where naturally some type of card (like instant vs control or creature vs combo/aggro) won't likely be in the GY for you to help with delirium. Also sideboarding changes things up. Ultimately I personally don't like delirium and especially traverse as your main engine. Its interesting in the latest builds of Abzan Traverse, but I think in Jund we have to work with something else imo.

you think grisly salvage can be the card to help delirium. talked to Leonardo Giucci and he said that its one of the cards that help delirium vs control (because its hard to get delirium vs control).

Quote from Tempest753 »

I mean theoretically you have a lot to gain from a delirium package to enable traverse, epica. If you'll notice, the *entire* sideboard can be tutored with traverse if delirium is enabled, so you can play these 1-of silver bullets and tutor them up pretty consistently when appropriate. That's not trivial, and it's a big part of the reason why birthing pod was once upon a time one of the top tier decks in the format. I also really like the tech of architects of will being both a 2-type cycler (artifact and creature), and a 4cmc spell that you can't cascade into. If you played bauble instead, you'd almost definitely need to remove the BBEs as cascading into a bauble sounds pretty awful.

Also chaos, I think there's merit to not playing death's shadow. This should theoretically only be a jund deck with a watery grave if you need to cast architects in an emergency. I think the notion thief and maybe also the hostage taker are a bit too cute and should probably be trimmed, at which point you're basically splashing blue for 5-6 cards and 4 of them you never really intend to cast. I think it's reasonable to expect not to take much more damage off your lands per game.

Of course, as with any traverse deck you're probably gonna have a bad time if your opponent casts a rest in peace, starts with leyline of the void, etc. You're not totally dead in the water, but all of your creatures except your 4 drops are gonna be pretty abysmal and you can't even traverse for the cards that don't suck anymore. Not on its own a reason not to play the deck (abzan traverse did just get 2nd at a GP after all), but it's definitely something you have to consider when asking "why play this over standard jund". It looks like a deck that uses the graveyard enough to get moderately hosed by hate, but doesn't abuse the graveyard enough to get free wins if your opponent doesn't draw said hate, and that's kind of the worst spot to be in.

It's a neat idea, has at least gone 5-0 in a modern league, and I think there's enough merit that you should test it out guitar90x. If it turns out to be really good, I'm totally down for playing a deck like that.

yeah I think we should drop BBE if its a traverse build. maybe a 1off Bedlam Reveler is good with 4 cards to tutor for it. ill be testing and see how consistent delirium enables. I was thinking also of including manamorphose to help aid the delirium faster.

Has anyone ever played Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Tireless Tracker together? It's not the sort of combo to actually build around but how much fun would it be to pull it off once?

I think this would be too much tension on mana. You cant really crack clues, play pkns and sac the thopter tokens at the same time.
You would simply not get full potential out the cards in my mind.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I think this would be too much tension on mana. You cant really crack clues, play pkns and sac the thopter tokens at the same time.
You would simply not get full potential out the cards in my mind.

Well, I'm just talking about bombing one's opponents with the clues. Any artifact will do, right?

Quote from pzbw7z »

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I think this would be too much tension on mana. You cant really crack clues, play pkns and sac the thopter tokens at the same time.
You would simply not get full potential out the cards in my mind.

Well, I'm just talking about bombing one's opponents with the clues. Any artifact will do, right?

It’s also worth noting, if you haven’t already, that tireless tracker reads “when you sac a clue, get a counter” regardless of how you sac’d it, meaning that saccing a clue to PnK still grows tracker. I don’t think this interaction is anywhere among the most powerful things jund can be doing, but it’s 100% on my modern bucket list.

here's some radical thinking. deciphered mardu and they only play value creatures and don't focus on big fatties. what if we dropped goyf and put tireless tracker?

4 bob
4 tracker
4 bbe

I just think tracker is really good on high land count build just like ried dukes 25 land jund. tron is already a great matchup because of bbe and this way we can see more cards.

we just need more 1 mana removal to smooth up to 3rd and 4th turn. being control early then put bombs on 3rd and 4th turn.

Oh i am really against that i have to say. Imo goyf is the strongest argument for running green in the first place at this point.

Hi, I think the ideas of "bedlam jund" are very good, one day I will try.
but at the moment I follow a very standard list:
https://deckstats.net/decks/74507/1015084-jundbraid-m19

I really like Alpine moon, in my meta exists a lot of Titanshift.

Keep junding guys

I have a question for you all. Say you were gonna play Reid duke’s most recent list from the modern challenge, but make the following changes:

-1 LotV, +1 thoughtseize
-1 confidant, +1 some disruptive element

My question is, what card would you play as that “disruptive element”? I’ve been rolling with collective brutality, but I feel like I have to board it out an annoying proportion of the time.

Quote from Ayiluss »

Quote from Wantendo »

There were 3 Jund Decks in the Top 8 of the MKM-Series Prague today http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-prague-2018-modern/#top8decks

Just saw it and what's even better one beat Scapeshift in the quarterfinals and one beat Mono G Tron which is not something you would normally see. It's nice to see Jund doing good although MKM series have always been pretty BGx infested.

You can even see on their metagame breakdown that BGx was the second most-played archetype with 24 copies. A nice result to be sure though, and a pretty dominant performance from jund in the top 8.

Oh well unfortunately I was not able to go to the mkm series, but am happy to see a great result like that.

I got sufficiently inspired by the MKM results to play Jund at a 114-player PPTQ today. I got too greedy against Ponza and Moon wrecked my chances for top 8, but I got 13th overall with a 5-2 result.

Wins: UR Thing x2, UR Breach, Jeskai Control, Merfolk.

Losses: Dredge (went on to win it all), Ponza.

I had a blast. Granted, I didn't run into Tron at all but the meta seems so diverse right now that you can play just about anything.

Keep the flame alive boys.

Now that it's been out for a while, what's everyone's verdict on Damping Sphere? Personally I'm playing 2 alongside 3 Fulminator Mage and love it. Even if it hinders casting BBE on time, it slows down Tron and Storm enough that it usually gives you the speed you need to win.

It's just another tool to me. I feel like I have a decent enough win percentage against Tron as-is when I play the build I like (not great but definitely in it so long as I get to do my thing). Other than that, Damping Sphere can prove annoying for several other decks, but most of them aren't my main concern. Unless the metagame becomes less diverse and particularly more hateful for Jund in particular ways, I'd leave Damping Sphere at home. If you choose to run it, that's cool too, but I would rather have more versatile cards that can affect the field.

I’ve had an overwhelmingly positive impression of damping sphere. I’ve had no luck vs tron before sphere came along. The ability to take tron offline on turn 2 means you aren’t just cold to turn 3 tron on the draw, which means your game 3 win rate goes up considerably. And where fulminator is good against the fair matchups in modern, sphere is good against a bunch of the combo matchups, including KCI which can be otherwise quite challenging without access to stony silence. Some other decks that can have a rough time comboing through a sphere include obviously storm, grishoalbrand, Cheerios, and ad nauseum to a degree. Obviously those aren’t a top priority as far as board space is concerned, but it’s better not to sleep on them anyways if you can afford 1 card or so.

From testing I’ve found that 4 sideboard cards is kind of the sweet spot needed to beat tron with some consistency. Running fewer than that means you’re unlikely to draw your hate on time vs tron. Notably, Reid duke has been registering 3 fulminator 1 sphere in his last couple modern videos too. You can certainly go with 5 hate cards if you hate tron that much lol though I’d be concerned about your other matchups too.

EDIT: also, as I’ve been thinking about it this past week, what if part of the reason that people have been disappointed with BBE since its unban is that people are jamming 4-of BBE in a deck with only 8ish 3cmc hits? If you really think about it, that means you’re playing 12 top end cards, but only 8 of them can be cascaded into, so you’ll pass over 1-2 BBEs mid-cascade and end up on a brick some % of the time (and I don’t know about you guys, but that % has not felt negligible). What if the way to make BBE better is to replace copies 4 and maybe even 3 with more 3 drops like tracker, kcommand, etc. so that you’re running fewer BBEs, but each one is more valuable? Food for thought I guess, maybe I’m being naive in assuming this hasn’t already been realized.

Well, I’ve read everything and now I’m going to make some of my own thoughts because, I came here to try to make a change in this deck, it’s a good deck but, some “dogmas” must be changed:

At first, I thought the deck needed better spells, to grind better, more 2 for 1 spells maybe... and I had a card in my mind but couldn’t fit it in the deck in the way I wanted and after a few tests... I ended testing Whispers of Emrakul in a Jund DS... and I LOVE IT!
Of course I made some drastic such as Tarfire over Bolt... yes I did, but it was for the sake of a turn 2 Delirium, and most of times I have it, a “Hymn to tourach” ok turn 2 sometimes helps you a lot
For now it’s the version of the deck that I have the better results, but I do want to play some “classic, but changed” Jund, I still have some ideas and I’ll be taking lots of ideas from here as well

How does everyone feel about Jund against GW Value Town? I feel like I've been getting really unlucky. Usually early pressure and a few pieces of removal is all I need to fold them up, but lately that just hasn't been happening. Am I wrong about my sentiments on this match?

I’ll go on record as saying that playing a bunch of maindeck trackers goes a long way towards smashing the crap out of value town I’m like 3 or 4-0 against value town with the tracker build. I have to imagine that otherwise you’ll have a hard time though.