@Delver, I like the list, man. I think I’d still have to play the 3rd BBE at the expense of one of the Lili’s (or something else), but apart from that I’d happily run that 60 all day long. I especially like the 9x fetches with Tracker.
I’ve noticed you’ve been running the 3/3 split of IoK and TS for awhile now. How’s it been performing for you? I’m guessing this is in response to the uptick in Control?
Honestly I really wish I could cut Grim Flayer in the Tracker build for more removal in hopes that the Confidant/Tracker combination would let me see enough of my deck to not care about a lack of card selection, but it’s felt so good to have so many two-drops and be able to consistently land a turn-two threat that I can’t bring myself to do it.
@Ayiluss, I’m right there with ya. I’m still testing the waters with it myself (no half-assed pun intended). Not enough reps to be a tenured card in my SB, but it has felt good. I guess it would help to go over to the Jeskai/UW Primers and ask what the opposition thinks about the Choke/Fulminator combination. Having both perspectives to weigh would give me a little more objective and less anecdotal look. And I’m with you on all these heterodox lists. They feel weird and wrong at a glance, but Jund is a dynamic archetype. Even the plane itself has a dynamic and adaptive theme in the lore. And I gotta tell you, some of these changes have felt really good.
@all, Here are some recent lists running Tracker (mostly just one, but I like it as a two-of) for reference:
My list looks exactly the same as Delver's right now, except that instead of running 2 Trackers MB I'm running 1 tracker + 1 Huntmaster.
Also instead of 3 IOK + 3Thoughtseize I'm running 3 IOK + 2 Thoughtseize and 4 bolts + 2 pushes.
I only gave this list one run so far, but was a 4-1 at the local Modern night last wednesday. Only loss was to Jeskai control 2-1, but it was a darn close game all along. Wins were over Hollow One, RG Eldrazi, Grixis Control and Burn. The rest was all 2-0 wins. Felt very good.
@Delver, I like the list, man. I think I’d still have to play the 3rd BBE at the expense of one of the Lili’s (or something else), but apart from that I’d happily run that 60 all day long. I especially like the 9x fetches with Tracker.
I’ve noticed you’ve been running the 3/3 split of IoK and TS for awhile now. How’s it been performing for you? I’m guessing this is in response to the uptick in Control?
Honestly I really wish I could cut Grim Flayer in the Tracker build for more removal in hopes that the Confidant/Tracker combination would let me see enough of my deck to not care about a lack of card selection, but it’s felt so good to have so many two-drops and be able to consistently land a turn-two threat that I can’t bring myself to do it.
Its really good, I think the downside of TS is fairly low right now, the only punishment could come from Humans realistically, which I am willing to risk.
I might try a version without Flayer, but card selection is too important to miss on this tool, even if its an unrealible one. Its the best one we have for this purpose.
Only 4 Fastlands in a 24 land build max (also Blackcleave > Blooming Marsh)
IMO Fulminator > Damping Sphere due to Control.
Some things aren't automatically suboptimal but are some meta concessions:
The Mountain: You are expecting a huge load of FoR? If not, I would absolutely avoid playing that Mountain.
Kozilek's Return: Many decks atm require you to have a really good sweeper if you want to kill every creature on the BF. Thats why I am actually also questioning Anger as a sweeper right now and the reason people started playing more Damnations. I think KReturn is too weak in general. I would advice playing EE, which also is able to kill an Etched Champion if you are afraid of that.
I want to pick your brain a bit about the decklist you posted.
So from an outside perspective the creature base seems a tad unfocused, like in particular with the two-ofs. Flayer as a two-of makes sense, and I guess 2 scooze rather than 3 is just necessary when you have that many creatures. But I feel like one of either the BBE or the tracker must be better than the other in any given deck. Like I’d personally be tempted to play 3 tracker, 1 elf if that was all you had room for in your top end. Thoughts there?
How sure are you about only 2 scooze? I feel like scooze is surprisingly useful in every match of modern I play between the midrange matchups, the lifegain vs aggro, and the grave hate vs most combo decks. I usually don’t trim more than 1 per match, and it’s usually against random combo decks that don’t use graveyard. Are you sure the third scooze isn’t worth making a cut for?
I’ve ended up cutting Liliana the last hope from my 75 entirely. She’s randomly a bomb sometimes, but when your opponent doesn’t have x/1s she’s kinda bad at protecting herself. In general, as powerful as her + effect is, I just don’t know that it’s worth spending a card on. Her other mode is rather medium. Have you been more impressed with her?
And finally, I’ve considered putting maelstrom pulse in my sideboard too, but frequently felt it was actually a bit too broad and didn’t help the matchups where I really needed help. Like if the the card is there for killing anglers/tasigur/etc then I’d rather it be terminate, and if it’s there to kill leyline I’d rather have unravel the aether or golgari charm. Like the card just feels too expensive in short, and while the first effect per game is great, the second is often just too slow.
Curious to hear your thoughts. I’ve been working on my list and am considering moving the fourth tracker to the side for a second BBE, and finding room among my creatures for either a singleton grim flayer or dark confidant maindeck.
On a related note, I’ve had the feeling recently that this archetype could be waaaaay more powerful if instead of having to run so many redundant copies of the same creatures that are occasionally powerful, we could instead play tutors for them. Like instead of the average creature base, it would be awesome if I could play the following:
Now obviously GSZ is banned so this is a bit of a pipe dream. But do you think there’s a world where traverse or summoners pact are playable in jund? Like consider with the above build that your deck would have a functional 5 scoozes, 5-6 trackers, and 7 tarmogoyfs with the same deck space as we have currently. Given the tools we currently have available, traverse would be hard to enable and perhaps open us up to too much grave dependence, but maybe two summoners pacts could be ok? Like a scooze/tracker split card in a topdeck war is a game winner in the vast, majority of matchups I can think of, even if you have to tap out the following turn to pay for pact. Insane, or just crazy enough to work?
Just one quick thing about The Last Hope, Tempest. When her +1 is good it’s amazing, like you said. But lately I’ve been really appreciating her for her -2 against Control/Midrange. Netting me a creature while still remaining a threat on the battlefield that still has to be answered is huge, especially if that creature is BBE against Control. And if you can get two -2’s out of her, you’re money. There’s a lot more value there than I realized. Anyway, that’s my take on her. She’s earned a solid spot in my 60 for this meta.
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For sure piney, but I guess I still kinda consider that effect medium? Like against a midrange or control deck kolaghan’s command can also buyback a creature but can do it at instant speed and get another bit of value to boot. Like I guess she just feels superfluous? For me at least she competes with kolaghans command for a spot, and I feel like I want kcommand more, not close.
I know you directed your message towards FlyingDelver, but I'd like to give my 2 cents about some of the things you commented on:
In regards of Maelstrom Pulse, I'd personally not consider moving it to the sideboard. You state that if it is there to kill big creatures, you'd rather terminate. And if it is there to deal with leyline, you'd rather other cards too. But the thing is, its there to kill both things, and artifacts, and planeswalkers altogether in just one card. That's versatility, and that's very important. It may not be the best card at doing any specific job, but its a card that "does it all", which is very good and necessary.
Also, I think we tend to forget how valluable Maelstrom Pulse's gimmick of killing "any cards of the same name" is. Mardu Pyromancer will surelly make a mass of Lingering Souls eventually, and the only card in our deck that deals well with that pre-sideboard is Pulse. Jeskai Control is likelly to eventually pull off a "Secure the Wastes". Humans run phantom images, so they often have "same-name" creatures on the field and, in the end of the day, pretty much every deck runs full playsets of their creatures so its not that rare to find yourself in situations where the Pulse is a 2 for 1.
Its "range" is far more broad than we usually give credit. I like the card in my mainboard and its nowhere near the list of cards I'd consider cutting.
I personally like Liliana the Last hope. I somewhat agree with what you said as in she isnt always THAT impactful, but even vs. Control decks where they dont have creatures on the field for her +1 to work, I've found her fetching me back a creature from my graveyard while still threatening to do that again in 2 turns, forcing my opponent to bolt her still. So, essentially, a 2 for 1 potentially. I'd keep it around, personally.
Now, a card that has disappointing me from time to time is Fatal Push. As amazing as it is of a card, I've been seeing way too many Hollow Ones, Eldrazis and other decks that might play a high-cmc creatures. I feel like Fatal Push felt better when Death Shadow was a huge deal, but latelly I've been inclined to trimming it down to a 1-of and brining 2x Terminates instead. I dont think Jund, with its lack of card selection (And sometimes lack of card draw) can afford playing too many cards that are too specific.
4x Bolts still feel right for me though. Its versatile. Can help me close up games, kills lots of stuff, kills planeswalkers, and if I'm facing a card with 4+ health I can usually just use the bolt teamed up with a Ko-Command, LoTH+1, some creature's blocking or even a Huntmaster's flip or whatever. There are ways of turning a bolt into a heavy removal. Latelly, the only moments I really feel like Fatal Push did something other cards wouldnt nowadays is vs. Collonades, but vs. Control decks we can bring as many terminates as we'd want, since pace usually isnt a problem in those matches.
Oh of course I would never suggest entirely cutting maelstrom pulse. It's important to have access to a catch-all spell of that kind. I was commenting specifically about the second maelstrom pulse in the sideboard. I was doing the same myself for a while (playing 1 main and 1 side) but the more I thought about it the more I realized that it wasn't really doing anything in the sideboard. The decks in modern nowadays are fast and powerful, and I don't think you can afford to waste tempo on cards like maelstrom pulse with great frequency. The first maelstrom pulse is a great way to cover your bases, but the tempo loss of drawing two maelstrom pulses in a game is really crippling.
I had the second pulse in my sideboard to kill leyline of sanctity and high cmc threats, but the more I thought about it the more I realized that I was looking to trade my 3 mana for my opponent's 0-1 mana play. Even if you remove leyline on turn 3 against a deck like bogles, you're probably just gonna die. And while pulse is quite strong vs hollow one, their big threats aren't there only threats; if you take a whole turn to kill a hollow one or angler, you can easily just get run down by some bloodghasts instead. But yeah, I think there's a misunderstanding here.
Liliana the last hope is by no means terrible. But I feel like with a tracker-heavy build you can safely write off the average control match as a win, and for reasons similar as outlined above I actually don't really like Lili the last hope against the aggro decks in modern right now. Like humans and hollow one are the premier aggro decks of the format right now, and I don't want LtLH against either. I'd much rather have collective brutality, fatal push, or terminate. LtLH's best matchup is like mardu maybe? But I'm not really sure how much that's worth either since the things she deals with (like pyromancers and soul tokens) are usually not what decide games.
I agree wholeheartedly regarding terminate and push, I've been playing 2 terminates for about a month or two and they've been excellent. I'm content for the moment with 1 fatal push main and a fatal push in the sideboard when I can fit it. Fatal push is one of the best cards for the humans matchup in my experience as it helps keep you ahead on tempo. I'd almost go so far as to say it's better than sweepers.
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I want to pick your brain a bit about the decklist you posted.
So from an outside perspective the creature base seems a tad unfocused, like in particular with the two-ofs. Flayer as a two-of makes sense, and I guess 2 scooze rather than 3 is just necessary when you have that many creatures. But I feel like one of either the BBE or the tracker must be better than the other in any given deck. Like I’d personally be tempted to play 3 tracker, 1 elf if that was all you had room for in your top end. Thoughts there?
How sure are you about only 2 scooze? I feel like scooze is surprisingly useful in every match of modern I play between the midrange matchups, the lifegain vs aggro, and the grave hate vs most combo decks. I usually don’t trim more than 1 per match, and it’s usually against random combo decks that don’t use graveyard. Are you sure the third scooze isn’t worth making a cut for?
I’ve ended up cutting Liliana the last hope from my 75 entirely. She’s randomly a bomb sometimes, but when your opponent doesn’t have x/1s she’s kinda bad at protecting herself. In general, as powerful as her + effect is, I just don’t know that it’s worth spending a card on. Her other mode is rather medium. Have you been more impressed with her?
And finally, I’ve considered putting maelstrom pulse in my sideboard too, but frequently felt it was actually a bit too broad and didn’t help the matchups where I really needed help. Like if the the card is there for killing anglers/tasigur/etc then I’d rather it be terminate, and if it’s there to kill leyline I’d rather have unravel the aether or golgari charm. Like the card just feels too expensive in short, and while the first effect per game is great, the second is often just too slow.
Curious to hear your thoughts. I’ve been working on my list and am considering moving the fourth tracker to the side for a second BBE, and finding room among my creatures for either a singleton grim flayer or dark confidant maindeck.
The creaturebase seems unfocused, but I'll explain my thoughtprocess behind this split: In general, I want somewhere between 2 and 3 Ooze. I tend to run 3 if I am able to, but I think since including Flayer is more important than having more Oozes, I am sticking with 2 copies for now. Its a neccessary evil if you want to play more threats.
Regarding Tracker and BBE, thats one thing I always thought about Tracker: People have been compraing Tracker to Bob massively lately and I explained that I think Tracker and Bob do different things in the deck. They are not interchangeable. I actually think Tracker and BBE are interchangable and Tracker serves the pupose of BBE in a similar way. The difference is only that BBE creates presumably less CA but simply more tempo. And I personally don't know yet which threat I like more for the overall metagame. Together both threats have 4 slots like BBE in the past. I cut 2 BBEs for 2 Trackers now to exactly see which threat I like more and the adjust going onward.
Like I said, I personally think Ooze is okay to only run as a 2 of.
Well, LtLH and Pulse are both cards I am not sure where I want them. I know I want 1 Pulse main and a second one in my 75. I personally still like LtLH quite a bit, its potential is way higher than KCommand (if I get to plus and kill a thing, then -2 the next two turns its a 3 for 1). I often had the situation where I basically had to deal 2 dmg to the opponents face plus recurring something with KCommand, which doesn't feel like a 2-for 1 to me. LtLH is after resolving a pretty much guaranteed 2-for-1. SO thats why I like her in the main, especially with only having 3 LoTV, and that why Pulse ended up in the SB now.
Hey JUND players, what’s up? I haven’t posted for a while but was wondering y’all opinions on the new M19 black legend.
Isareth the awakener
1BB. 3/3 deathtouch
Those stats seem good as is, although she dies to bolt. Her attacking ability is nuts, recurring a dude by paying X colorless mana for them. It might not seem good cuz you have to attack but cuz she has deathtouch she might just go unblocked if the opponent doesn’t want to trade there bigger guy to kill her, or 2-3 for 1 if they want to trade numerous guys to kill her. She replaces herself with a recurred creature when she swings if she dies in combat and you have someone in the GY to recur.
If your running grim flayer you might be more inclined to put creatures in the GY so she can bring them back and still sculpt your draw step.
Discarding creatures to Liliana doesn’t seem that bad with her in play as well.
She might be good in JUND, or maybe a different kind of midrange list but i do think she is modern playable. Especially in humans, well cuz she’s a human.
I’m just trying to bring some awareness and consideration to her cuz I checked the last few pages and hadn’t seen any posts about her.
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CURRENTLY PLAYING Legacy: BWG Junk Modern: BGR Jund BUG BUG URW American Control BWG Junk BWR Dega midrange GWR Naya Zoo EDH: BWG Teneb, the Harvester Pauper EDH: WG Sigil Captain Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
Thanks for your short write-up. I see where you're coming from mostly across the board.
@el_snoope
I missed that card and I really like it.
Unfortunately though, I don't think it's really what we're looking for. The card is only truly powerful in grindy matchups (as other decks don't traditionally kill jund creatures) and I don't think those are the matchups that most desperately need addressing for jund. Additionally, I think the most powerful cards for those grindy matchups are ones that generate value either immediately on cast or resolution and don't require you to untap with it. Giving your opponent the ability to bolt your value card for no value is a real kick in the teeth and is one of the reasons why I've chosen not to treat dark confidant as a staple anymore.
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Kolaghan's Command really hasn't done much for me lately. I won't completely cut it from my list because of its versatility, but it often goes to the sideboard in many matches lately. That's why I have cut it to one in the main deck.
Only if you play more than two or have way better sideboard cards to bring in. I think people undervalue Ooze's ability to mess with graveyards against control.
Do you sideboard Scavenging Ooze out in control match ups?
I don't, even if its not a good threat here, its still a threat. I usually have worse stuff to cut (like Bolts, Pushes and Terminates) and Ooze can stop a Snapcaster from coming down for as long as it stays on the BF. That being said, I don't think its completely wrong to side Ooze out.
KCommand is invaluable in the Control MU. It’s almost always instant CA. One of our best tools there. And if you manage to simultaneously get back a BBE from the yard and force them to discard in the games that go long, you’re in the driver’s seat. That play can even often net you one of the elusive comebacks from behind in that MU, which is quite a feat.
I don’t know what else to really say about it to forward my argument. It’s simply a great card against Control. I won’t run less than two right now. And my Lili-tLH is my pseudo KCommand #3.
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That feeling when you show up a local modern event and your pairings are Abzan wilt-liege, bant Eldrazi, and tron. Fml and kill me please
Decided to run a LtLH instead of my second kcommand tonight, and while the matchups have been odd and not indicative of modern as a whole, kcommand would have been about as good or better basically every time. I think kcommand is a lot more flexible and therefore powerful imo. Otherwise the deck ran very smoothly. My creature base (aka the point of contention on here) looked as follows:
This setup felt pretty perfect tbh. I kinda wanted two creatures to help me dig for answers and decided to split the difference between the two as they each have strengths and weaknesses. I liked it a lot.
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4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Twilight Mire
Creatures [15]
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grim Flayer
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Terminate
1 Collective Brutality
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Collective Brutality
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Grim Lavamancer
I’ve noticed you’ve been running the 3/3 split of IoK and TS for awhile now. How’s it been performing for you? I’m guessing this is in response to the uptick in Control?
Honestly I really wish I could cut Grim Flayer in the Tracker build for more removal in hopes that the Confidant/Tracker combination would let me see enough of my deck to not care about a lack of card selection, but it’s felt so good to have so many two-drops and be able to consistently land a turn-two threat that I can’t bring myself to do it.
@Ayiluss, I’m right there with ya. I’m still testing the waters with it myself (no half-assed pun intended). Not enough reps to be a tenured card in my SB, but it has felt good. I guess it would help to go over to the Jeskai/UW Primers and ask what the opposition thinks about the Choke/Fulminator combination. Having both perspectives to weigh would give me a little more objective and less anecdotal look. And I’m with you on all these heterodox lists. They feel weird and wrong at a glance, but Jund is a dynamic archetype. Even the plane itself has a dynamic and adaptive theme in the lore. And I gotta tell you, some of these changes have felt really good.
@all, Here are some recent lists running Tracker (mostly just one, but I like it as a two-of) for reference:
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19454&d=324209&f=MO
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19430&d=323946&f=MO
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19333&d=322833&f=MO
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19275&d=322249&f=MO
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19211&d=321749&f=MO
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Also instead of 3 IOK + 3Thoughtseize I'm running 3 IOK + 2 Thoughtseize and 4 bolts + 2 pushes.
I only gave this list one run so far, but was a 4-1 at the local Modern night last wednesday. Only loss was to Jeskai control 2-1, but it was a darn close game all along. Wins were over Hollow One, RG Eldrazi, Grixis Control and Burn. The rest was all 2-0 wins. Felt very good.
Its really good, I think the downside of TS is fairly low right now, the only punishment could come from Humans realistically, which I am willing to risk.
I might try a version without Flayer, but card selection is too important to miss on this tool, even if its an unrealible one. Its the best one we have for this purpose.
Only 4 Fastlands in a 24 land build max (also Blackcleave > Blooming Marsh)
IMO Fulminator > Damping Sphere due to Control.
Some things aren't automatically suboptimal but are some meta concessions:
The Mountain: You are expecting a huge load of FoR? If not, I would absolutely avoid playing that Mountain.
Kozilek's Return: Many decks atm require you to have a really good sweeper if you want to kill every creature on the BF. Thats why I am actually also questioning Anger as a sweeper right now and the reason people started playing more Damnations. I think KReturn is too weak in general. I would advice playing EE, which also is able to kill an Etched Champion if you are afraid of that.
I want to pick your brain a bit about the decklist you posted.
So from an outside perspective the creature base seems a tad unfocused, like in particular with the two-ofs. Flayer as a two-of makes sense, and I guess 2 scooze rather than 3 is just necessary when you have that many creatures. But I feel like one of either the BBE or the tracker must be better than the other in any given deck. Like I’d personally be tempted to play 3 tracker, 1 elf if that was all you had room for in your top end. Thoughts there?
How sure are you about only 2 scooze? I feel like scooze is surprisingly useful in every match of modern I play between the midrange matchups, the lifegain vs aggro, and the grave hate vs most combo decks. I usually don’t trim more than 1 per match, and it’s usually against random combo decks that don’t use graveyard. Are you sure the third scooze isn’t worth making a cut for?
I’ve ended up cutting Liliana the last hope from my 75 entirely. She’s randomly a bomb sometimes, but when your opponent doesn’t have x/1s she’s kinda bad at protecting herself. In general, as powerful as her + effect is, I just don’t know that it’s worth spending a card on. Her other mode is rather medium. Have you been more impressed with her?
And finally, I’ve considered putting maelstrom pulse in my sideboard too, but frequently felt it was actually a bit too broad and didn’t help the matchups where I really needed help. Like if the the card is there for killing anglers/tasigur/etc then I’d rather it be terminate, and if it’s there to kill leyline I’d rather have unravel the aether or golgari charm. Like the card just feels too expensive in short, and while the first effect per game is great, the second is often just too slow.
Curious to hear your thoughts. I’ve been working on my list and am considering moving the fourth tracker to the side for a second BBE, and finding room among my creatures for either a singleton grim flayer or dark confidant maindeck.
On a related note, I’ve had the feeling recently that this archetype could be waaaaay more powerful if instead of having to run so many redundant copies of the same creatures that are occasionally powerful, we could instead play tutors for them. Like instead of the average creature base, it would be awesome if I could play the following:
Now obviously GSZ is banned so this is a bit of a pipe dream. But do you think there’s a world where traverse or summoners pact are playable in jund? Like consider with the above build that your deck would have a functional 5 scoozes, 5-6 trackers, and 7 tarmogoyfs with the same deck space as we have currently. Given the tools we currently have available, traverse would be hard to enable and perhaps open us up to too much grave dependence, but maybe two summoners pacts could be ok? Like a scooze/tracker split card in a topdeck war is a game winner in the vast, majority of matchups I can think of, even if you have to tap out the following turn to pay for pact. Insane, or just crazy enough to work?
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Still though, I can see the appeal.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
I know you directed your message towards FlyingDelver, but I'd like to give my 2 cents about some of the things you commented on:
In regards of Maelstrom Pulse, I'd personally not consider moving it to the sideboard. You state that if it is there to kill big creatures, you'd rather terminate. And if it is there to deal with leyline, you'd rather other cards too. But the thing is, its there to kill both things, and artifacts, and planeswalkers altogether in just one card. That's versatility, and that's very important. It may not be the best card at doing any specific job, but its a card that "does it all", which is very good and necessary.
Also, I think we tend to forget how valluable Maelstrom Pulse's gimmick of killing "any cards of the same name" is. Mardu Pyromancer will surelly make a mass of Lingering Souls eventually, and the only card in our deck that deals well with that pre-sideboard is Pulse. Jeskai Control is likelly to eventually pull off a "Secure the Wastes". Humans run phantom images, so they often have "same-name" creatures on the field and, in the end of the day, pretty much every deck runs full playsets of their creatures so its not that rare to find yourself in situations where the Pulse is a 2 for 1.
Its "range" is far more broad than we usually give credit. I like the card in my mainboard and its nowhere near the list of cards I'd consider cutting.
I personally like Liliana the Last hope. I somewhat agree with what you said as in she isnt always THAT impactful, but even vs. Control decks where they dont have creatures on the field for her +1 to work, I've found her fetching me back a creature from my graveyard while still threatening to do that again in 2 turns, forcing my opponent to bolt her still. So, essentially, a 2 for 1 potentially. I'd keep it around, personally.
Now, a card that has disappointing me from time to time is Fatal Push. As amazing as it is of a card, I've been seeing way too many Hollow Ones, Eldrazis and other decks that might play a high-cmc creatures. I feel like Fatal Push felt better when Death Shadow was a huge deal, but latelly I've been inclined to trimming it down to a 1-of and brining 2x Terminates instead. I dont think Jund, with its lack of card selection (And sometimes lack of card draw) can afford playing too many cards that are too specific.
4x Bolts still feel right for me though. Its versatile. Can help me close up games, kills lots of stuff, kills planeswalkers, and if I'm facing a card with 4+ health I can usually just use the bolt teamed up with a Ko-Command, LoTH+1, some creature's blocking or even a Huntmaster's flip or whatever. There are ways of turning a bolt into a heavy removal. Latelly, the only moments I really feel like Fatal Push did something other cards wouldnt nowadays is vs. Collonades, but vs. Control decks we can bring as many terminates as we'd want, since pace usually isnt a problem in those matches.
I had the second pulse in my sideboard to kill leyline of sanctity and high cmc threats, but the more I thought about it the more I realized that I was looking to trade my 3 mana for my opponent's 0-1 mana play. Even if you remove leyline on turn 3 against a deck like bogles, you're probably just gonna die. And while pulse is quite strong vs hollow one, their big threats aren't there only threats; if you take a whole turn to kill a hollow one or angler, you can easily just get run down by some bloodghasts instead. But yeah, I think there's a misunderstanding here.
Liliana the last hope is by no means terrible. But I feel like with a tracker-heavy build you can safely write off the average control match as a win, and for reasons similar as outlined above I actually don't really like Lili the last hope against the aggro decks in modern right now. Like humans and hollow one are the premier aggro decks of the format right now, and I don't want LtLH against either. I'd much rather have collective brutality, fatal push, or terminate. LtLH's best matchup is like mardu maybe? But I'm not really sure how much that's worth either since the things she deals with (like pyromancers and soul tokens) are usually not what decide games.
I agree wholeheartedly regarding terminate and push, I've been playing 2 terminates for about a month or two and they've been excellent. I'm content for the moment with 1 fatal push main and a fatal push in the sideboard when I can fit it. Fatal push is one of the best cards for the humans matchup in my experience as it helps keep you ahead on tempo. I'd almost go so far as to say it's better than sweepers.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
The creaturebase seems unfocused, but I'll explain my thoughtprocess behind this split: In general, I want somewhere between 2 and 3 Ooze. I tend to run 3 if I am able to, but I think since including Flayer is more important than having more Oozes, I am sticking with 2 copies for now. Its a neccessary evil if you want to play more threats.
Regarding Tracker and BBE, thats one thing I always thought about Tracker: People have been compraing Tracker to Bob massively lately and I explained that I think Tracker and Bob do different things in the deck. They are not interchangeable. I actually think Tracker and BBE are interchangable and Tracker serves the pupose of BBE in a similar way. The difference is only that BBE creates presumably less CA but simply more tempo. And I personally don't know yet which threat I like more for the overall metagame. Together both threats have 4 slots like BBE in the past. I cut 2 BBEs for 2 Trackers now to exactly see which threat I like more and the adjust going onward.
Like I said, I personally think Ooze is okay to only run as a 2 of.
Well, LtLH and Pulse are both cards I am not sure where I want them. I know I want 1 Pulse main and a second one in my 75. I personally still like LtLH quite a bit, its potential is way higher than KCommand (if I get to plus and kill a thing, then -2 the next two turns its a 3 for 1). I often had the situation where I basically had to deal 2 dmg to the opponents face plus recurring something with KCommand, which doesn't feel like a 2-for 1 to me. LtLH is after resolving a pretty much guaranteed 2-for-1. SO thats why I like her in the main, especially with only having 3 LoTV, and that why Pulse ended up in the SB now.
I am talking about situations where you know your opponent keeps excess lands in hand. There is nothing to drawstep discard here.
Isareth the awakener
1BB. 3/3 deathtouch
Those stats seem good as is, although she dies to bolt. Her attacking ability is nuts, recurring a dude by paying X colorless mana for them. It might not seem good cuz you have to attack but cuz she has deathtouch she might just go unblocked if the opponent doesn’t want to trade there bigger guy to kill her, or 2-3 for 1 if they want to trade numerous guys to kill her. She replaces herself with a recurred creature when she swings if she dies in combat and you have someone in the GY to recur.
If your running grim flayer you might be more inclined to put creatures in the GY so she can bring them back and still sculpt your draw step.
Discarding creatures to Liliana doesn’t seem that bad with her in play as well.
She might be good in JUND, or maybe a different kind of midrange list but i do think she is modern playable. Especially in humans, well cuz she’s a human.
I’m just trying to bring some awareness and consideration to her cuz I checked the last few pages and hadn’t seen any posts about her.
CURRENTLY PLAYING
Legacy:
BWG Junk
Modern:
BGR Jund
BUG BUG
URW American Control
BWG Junk
BWR Dega midrange
GWR Naya Zoo
EDH:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pauper EDH:
WG Sigil Captain
Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
El_snoope's haves and wants list
Thanks for your short write-up. I see where you're coming from mostly across the board.
@el_snoope
I missed that card and I really like it.
Unfortunately though, I don't think it's really what we're looking for. The card is only truly powerful in grindy matchups (as other decks don't traditionally kill jund creatures) and I don't think those are the matchups that most desperately need addressing for jund. Additionally, I think the most powerful cards for those grindy matchups are ones that generate value either immediately on cast or resolution and don't require you to untap with it. Giving your opponent the ability to bolt your value card for no value is a real kick in the teeth and is one of the reasons why I've chosen not to treat dark confidant as a staple anymore.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
I don't, even if its not a good threat here, its still a threat. I usually have worse stuff to cut (like Bolts, Pushes and Terminates) and Ooze can stop a Snapcaster from coming down for as long as it stays on the BF. That being said, I don't think its completely wrong to side Ooze out.
I don’t know what else to really say about it to forward my argument. It’s simply a great card against Control. I won’t run less than two right now. And my Lili-tLH is my pseudo KCommand #3.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Decided to run a LtLH instead of my second kcommand tonight, and while the matchups have been odd and not indicative of modern as a whole, kcommand would have been about as good or better basically every time. I think kcommand is a lot more flexible and therefore powerful imo. Otherwise the deck ran very smoothly. My creature base (aka the point of contention on here) looked as follows:
This setup felt pretty perfect tbh. I kinda wanted two creatures to help me dig for answers and decided to split the difference between the two as they each have strengths and weaknesses. I liked it a lot.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh