Oh *****, this card is really big. On the one hand this is obviously a way to win the valakut and tron matchup right? And it's the only convincing side board card to beat valakut I think. On the other it doesn't have the combo splash damage that damping sphere does. Though because this can shut off azcanta and opposing manlands, I don't hate the idea of playing this over fulminator mage. Interesting times for big mana hate.
Part of the appeal of fulminator is getting to stone rain control and midrange for sure. This card obviously doesn’t do that, so I think largely this will step on damping spheres toes if anything, and I’m a rather big fan of the anti-combo splash damage that sphere provides.
Overall, though this is one of the first cards to nuke all forms of big mana in modern, I think it’s less powerful than either fulminator or sphere as far as board cards go because it’s not good enough in any other matchups most likely. The great thing about this card is that it finally gives us a fighting chance vs valakut should the deck ever increase in popularity. Btw can you imagine the joy of playing turn 1 alpine moon, turn 2 damping sphere, turn 3 fulminator mage against like tron or amulet titan? So much wonderful hate for such obnoxious decks :).
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Blood Moon also shuts down your own manabase so this is a whole lot better if you want to hose Scapeshift and Tron. 1 and 3 CMC is also world's apart when you are trying to pressure these decks.
It's also effective in shutting down manlands, and Temple. Don't want to dismiss the card too early as narrow. We can definitely try some combination of Alpine Moon, D-Sphere and Fulminator Mages in the SB depending in your meta.
Alpine Moon does not shut down Tron completely if I'm reading the card correctly? Even if I name "Urza's Tower" - if my opponent has Mine and Power plant in play, those still tap for 2 mana right?
True. It used to be based on type but now it's name. However, you can play more than one, but when they pop Oblivion Stone, it is going to be sad panda time.
Alpine Moon does not shut down Tron completely if I'm reading the card correctly? Even if I name "Urza's Tower" - if my opponent has Mine and Power plant in play, those still tap for 2 mana right?
If I understand rules correctly, tron lands work on subtype rather than name, in other words each one is a “Land - Urzas tower”. Alpine moon strips away that subtype, and that should do the trick for shutting down the other two as well.
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I’m pretty sure Tron lands look at eachother’s subtypes to come online, not their name, so this should work. With that said, it is worth noting that it gives them easy access to G for Nature’s Claim. Doesn’t make it bad, and I’m not one to proclaim things “die to Doom Blade”, but it is something to keep in mind.
Edit: Sorry for the echo, I meant to send this a few hours ago.
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I'm absolutely loving this alpine moon! This card hoses valakut and tron big time while also doing extra duty against celestial colonnade. Definitely running this in my sideboard...
While I agree that against Tron and Valakut this is indeed great, both are not the real problems we have right now. Its is good to have nonetheless.
With Jeskai Control being that high as it is, I would play Fulminator over Alpine Moon I think. I think Fulminator is in general better against the deck.
Fulminator is definitely better against control as it is also a threat that applies pressure. But this is better against the other matchups and it's nice that it takes care of multiple colonnade vs just 1. Anyways, fulminator vs control better, but with so many cards vying for those precious 15 SB slots I think this card may be where we want to be. I think it's worth testing definately. Could maybe do a split of these cards too if you want.
Thanks for the clarifications - that does seem to make the card quite a bit better. It should also be possible to name the back half of Azcanta with this right?
I've been running back and forth lately with the list I've been playing (planning to take Jund to GP Barcelona). I recently tried moving away from lots of removal and interaction in exchange for more board presence with more creatures. I've loved the Grim Flayers so far!
I've been running fairly well with this list, most games feel fairly close - but having a very proactive game plan seems to be doing well. Some noteworthy considerations:
1. I've changed an EE in the board for a second damnation. I found myself often times siding the EE in to deal with creatures (tokens and humans/affinity), while the EE is great against tokens my experience with it against affinity and humans was that I'd often want X=2 - which I find very awkward in a list that has so many two drops as this.
2. I'm not running the Cage atm - I'd love to find room for it, but I'm not sure it is really pulling its weight atm. It helps against Hollow One, but this is the primary match where I'd want it - and so far my experience has been that an Ooze can often get me out of the primary troubles here. I find Cage more of a trap card against storm where they just bounce it EOT and kill you when you think you're safe.
While I'm always open for suggestions the two things I'm mainly considering myself is:
1. The split between push and bolt - I'm not entirely sure if going with a 3/3 split would allow me, sometimes, to let a Champion/Lieutenant from humans grow a bit bigger before dealing with it, also it would help greatly against the manlands from Affinity. What experiences do you all have on this front?
2. Having only played the Grim Flayers recently I'm not really sure if the split between Flayer and Bob is correct, or if 3/3 here would do a better job as well. Obviously Bob turn two is awesome and it's a play I'd happily make any day - Flayers work better in multiples though and do a better job of gumming up the ground. Have anyone here done some testing with various splits between the two cards?
Hello here !
Sorry for my bad english, i am french player and i test for GP Barcelona next week. I am really interested on Tempest753's decklist because i try to brew somethig close. I played a lot Jund during 1 year (1 GP with day 2, 10 side events, 4 locals tournaments (30~50 players) and some pptqs) without any shaman or BBE with 4 bob and 4 liliana of the veil but i think the both are not really impressive right now like before. My idea is too play a Blood Moon Jund deck with tracker and no liliana or bob :
I discussed with a friend who says me blood moon is good right now but ponza is bad against affinity, burn, hollow one and humans so the plan is too play blood moon in a deck which can easily fight aggro decks and who have a better plan than mardu against tron and valakut. I test others decks too (eldrazi, hatebears, bant company) but i have always the feeling for a diversified and based-creatures metagame Jund have a nice powerlevel. If i don't play mardu or any other decks already build it's because i want (i try) to choose a deck which i know play it for a GP (i have 2 byes, maybe it's change something to choose a deck or a list ?), my assumption (i hope it's true) is i am a good jund player and i know modern in general, if it's not true this deck is a bad idea. So let's try to discuss on some details :
-i am not a fan of BBE but probably she very nice in a blood moon shell with a lot of burn spells.
-brutality is good against a lot of decks and can use the dead cards (discard+moon), maybe 3 is too much.
-i am a fan of kolaghan's command, it's the best card of deck but i never see anyone play 4... i don't understand. It helps a lot against control and tron and it's one of the best grindy cards against midrange.
-i think the hazoret plan is just stupid but it's an easy way to kill very faster tron and valakut and steal post board games against control and midrange. If i play BBE i will cut 1 for a huntmaster-like cards (maybe finks or baloth).
-Maybe i can play 1 or 2 other denial cards to help the moon post board but i don't know if it's a good idea.
Thanks for you help. Be critic please, i always try to be realistic in MTG and i brew a lot of different lists so i have no problem to guess this decklist is maybe a totally bad idea. I say again the idea is based on my feelings about metagame and not on logical justifications, it's why i need critics.
I'm all for people trying out different lists in Jund. My only suggestion is maybe go to 3 forests instead of 2 forests and 1 mountain. Primarily because you're playing blood moon and you have enough red sources =)
*Oh, and tracker is amazing and I'm currently running a 3/2 split of Tracker/Flayer (I do like me some Bob CA but I want to try this tracker lady out).
The concept is very interesting and I’d be interested to see how it plays out. I have a couple of initial concerns though.
For one thing I think the ability of mardu to play 4x faithless looting makes it a significantly better fair blood moon deck. Sometimes blood moon just isn’t good, or you draw multiples that you don’t need in which case the ability to ditch them is great.
I also know you have your preference here, but 4x kcommand is too much, particularly if you’re not playing BBE to pair with it. I’d play 3 if you’re convinced it’s that good (though I’d rather play 2). Along a similar line, I think your curve is a bit too high with 11 3cmc and 3 4cmc. You definitely need to trim the top end or at least play 25 land. I foresee humans being rough to beat if you don’t get lucky and draw 3 bolts or something.
The empty slots in the board should 100% be grave hate, like perhaps 1 spellbomb and 1 graf cage. In general I don’t agree with a lot of the card choices here, but I guess this is so radically different from the usual jund deck that I don’t know what the matchups look like anymore. I do know for sure that 3 hazoret seems like at least 1 too many, and gaze of granite is less good than either damnation or anger of the gods. The rest is pretty reasonable though.
Interested to see where your build takes you.
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Overall, though this is one of the first cards to nuke all forms of big mana in modern, I think it’s less powerful than either fulminator or sphere as far as board cards go because it’s not good enough in any other matchups most likely. The great thing about this card is that it finally gives us a fighting chance vs valakut should the deck ever increase in popularity. Btw can you imagine the joy of playing turn 1 alpine moon, turn 2 damping sphere, turn 3 fulminator mage against like tron or amulet titan? So much wonderful hate for such obnoxious decks :).
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GBR Jund Midrange
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It's also effective in shutting down manlands, and Temple. Don't want to dismiss the card too early as narrow. We can definitely try some combination of Alpine Moon, D-Sphere and Fulminator Mages in the SB depending in your meta.
If I understand rules correctly, tron lands work on subtype rather than name, in other words each one is a “Land - Urzas tower”. Alpine moon strips away that subtype, and that should do the trick for shutting down the other two as well.
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Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Edit: Sorry for the echo, I meant to send this a few hours ago.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
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BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
With Jeskai Control being that high as it is, I would play Fulminator over Alpine Moon I think. I think Fulminator is in general better against the deck.
I'm currently on a list that looks like this:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Grim Flayer
3 Scavenging Ooze
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (16)
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
1 Twilight Mire
1 Mountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Kitchen Finks
I've been running fairly well with this list, most games feel fairly close - but having a very proactive game plan seems to be doing well. Some noteworthy considerations:
1. I've changed an EE in the board for a second damnation. I found myself often times siding the EE in to deal with creatures (tokens and humans/affinity), while the EE is great against tokens my experience with it against affinity and humans was that I'd often want X=2 - which I find very awkward in a list that has so many two drops as this.
2. I'm not running the Cage atm - I'd love to find room for it, but I'm not sure it is really pulling its weight atm. It helps against Hollow One, but this is the primary match where I'd want it - and so far my experience has been that an Ooze can often get me out of the primary troubles here. I find Cage more of a trap card against storm where they just bounce it EOT and kill you when you think you're safe.
While I'm always open for suggestions the two things I'm mainly considering myself is:
1. The split between push and bolt - I'm not entirely sure if going with a 3/3 split would allow me, sometimes, to let a Champion/Lieutenant from humans grow a bit bigger before dealing with it, also it would help greatly against the manlands from Affinity. What experiences do you all have on this front?
2. Having only played the Grim Flayers recently I'm not really sure if the split between Flayer and Bob is correct, or if 3/3 here would do a better job as well. Obviously Bob turn two is awesome and it's a play I'd happily make any day - Flayers work better in multiples though and do a better job of gumming up the ground. Have anyone here done some testing with various splits between the two cards?
I'm all for people trying out different lists in Jund. My only suggestion is maybe go to 3 forests instead of 2 forests and 1 mountain. Primarily because you're playing blood moon and you have enough red sources =)
*Oh, and tracker is amazing and I'm currently running a 3/2 split of Tracker/Flayer (I do like me some Bob CA but I want to try this tracker lady out).
The concept is very interesting and I’d be interested to see how it plays out. I have a couple of initial concerns though.
For one thing I think the ability of mardu to play 4x faithless looting makes it a significantly better fair blood moon deck. Sometimes blood moon just isn’t good, or you draw multiples that you don’t need in which case the ability to ditch them is great.
I also know you have your preference here, but 4x kcommand is too much, particularly if you’re not playing BBE to pair with it. I’d play 3 if you’re convinced it’s that good (though I’d rather play 2). Along a similar line, I think your curve is a bit too high with 11 3cmc and 3 4cmc. You definitely need to trim the top end or at least play 25 land. I foresee humans being rough to beat if you don’t get lucky and draw 3 bolts or something.
The empty slots in the board should 100% be grave hate, like perhaps 1 spellbomb and 1 graf cage. In general I don’t agree with a lot of the card choices here, but I guess this is so radically different from the usual jund deck that I don’t know what the matchups look like anymore. I do know for sure that 3 hazoret seems like at least 1 too many, and gaze of granite is less good than either damnation or anger of the gods. The rest is pretty reasonable though.
Interested to see where your build takes you.
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Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
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