Have been on the fence about running a second Pulse in the SB for ages now, gonna pull the trigger on that and start testing. Shadow only has two different creatures + Souls so multiples of the same aren't unheard of - especially considering they're trying to swarm us before we get to the late game. Should be good right?
A second Pulse does make sense to me. Having access to a one mainboard and a second one sideboard seems to be a good starting point therefore.
Not sure why so many people are extremely butt hurt that lightning bolt is just a poorly positioned card right now. For god's sake- two boltless jund lists just went rank 1 and rank 3 in the MOCS- this is not just happenstance of one of these lists 5-0'ing a mtgo league. Many pros and best players around play the MOCS in hopes of qualifying for tourneys with higher stakes and the MTGO championship. Both of these guys who went 1st and 3rd were clearly metagaming their decision to not play bolt.- and it paid off heavily. Magic is not a static game where decks are inherently the best given 1 configuration- magic is about adapting to your environment, knowing your meta, and adjusting your mainboard and sideboard threats and answers accordingly.
To me, it's pretty ridiculous that people can't grasp the concept that "reach" doesn't ******* matter when you're getting stomped on by a bunch of reality smashers, thought knot seers, and death's shadows. Inherently, B/G/x decks have ALWAYS played like more of a control deck than anything that try to soft lock your opponent's ability to play magic through cards like thoughtseize, IoK, LoTV, HARD removal, and cost efficient threats that deal a lot of damage (tarmogoyf, raging ravine) or gain you card advantage (bob). Reach does not matter because your threats already do a ton of damage. What's more important is making sure your threats are able to actually get in there for damage and that you have the means to remove opponent's threats. We are not playing burn here, people- in our current environment, eldrazi and death's shadow are here to stay- if you have to go slightly bigger with terminate, and more k-commands to recur threats, make people discard, and return creatures to your hand, I think that's a brilliant metagame call that was made by these players.
I haven't had a match in a long time where I've been happy to draw bolt. It has its merits but it's also falling behind. I don't know why Spiegel makes a big deal about it but you do seem to enjoy getting salty about midrange Jund. Anyways I don't see an issue with experimenting. It has to be done. They put up good results recently which goes quite a ways but I will try reducing the Bolt count along with dropping it all together. I'm not saying it's the way forward but maybe it has its place in certain metas.
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Modern URGifts StormUR URBlue MoonUR URKiln FiendUR
Well, taking bolts out it's purely a meta call for me. At my LGS there's a single DS player, with the Grixis version and he's not that good with it yet. So I not taking them out just yet..I'll have to wait and see hows the meta there evolves.
but if I were attending to a PPTQ, GP or even in a unknown store this weekend, for sure I would remove at least a couple of bolts for more pushes and terminates.
As said before, the reach bolt provides it's no longer needed IMO. Straight kill spell for almost any problematic creature it's way better nowadays.
Despite the recent records, Midrange Jund is still a great choice and for sure won't seize to exist. It just have to adapt like many times before this.
This is the list i'm playing this weekend...My board it's a little bit different from the usual, i'm taking finks out in order to play more Collectives..in my recent tests..finks were pretty sub-par and never a good draw, also it clogged up the 3 CMC slot.
Edit: If I were removing all copies of bolt, probably would do something in this line:
-4 Lightning Bolt
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Terminate
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek -> not sure which one yet.
After some tests, I finally have a solid list that I like but there is one slot I'm not a big fan of in my SB : Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
I used to play him a lot during Eldrazi Winter because Abzan Company was pretty popular but with the new meta game, he's no more shining.
He passed from MD to SB and now, even in SB, I don't want to play him right now.
I have 3 options for this slot and I want to know what you think about it regarding the actual T1 meta (Death Shadow, Gx Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Affinity, EldraTron, Valakut & Abzan) :
Good against Burn and midrange thanks to its ability to take back a dead creature or a destructed land.
I used to play it a lot and it's a nice swiss army knife' card which is pretty efficient for specific creatures like Fulminator Mage or Kitchen Finks.
Not game-break but helpful.
In against : Burn (lifegain + take back Kitchen Finks), Death Shadow & Abzan (take back Tarmogoyf or Ooze), Gx Tron, Eldra Tron & Valakut (take back Fulminator Mage)
A "used to play" card which can be pretty efficient and surprise your opponent who doesn't expect to face it.
Very good top deck in mid and late-game against midrange or control deck.
Change the maths and help to finish by range when the situation is locked.
And you can exhumate him to deal more damage (Anathemancer T6 then exhumate T7 is game-over)
In against : Death Shadow, Abzan, Gx Tron, EldraTron
Our vampiric lady seems pretty interesting in the actual meta, even if she stays a "high risk high value" card.
She can ping small creatures played in Affinity or helps to deal with Lingering Souls (Death Shadow & Abzan) and against big mana deck with beefy creatures (which don't play a lot of removals), she can steals them.
The fact that she's a flying creature is pretty good too.
In against : Death Shadow, Abzan, Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, EldraTron
What's your (constructive) thoughts about those options ?
Some advice or recommendations ?
I love Anathemancer, but his cost is a little high for his EtB effect. Still, if I ever go back to any flavor of Jund, I will give him a try.
Pulse of Murasa or Kolaghan's Command are more viable ways of getting extra mileage out him than his Unearth ability. Still, one might get to seven mana once in a while.
Has anyone tested the list with 4x K Command, 2x Tireless trackers and 8 discard? Very curious to hear about people's experiences.
I've liked 4 copies of those cards for a long time now.
Modern is/was a fast format with decks like Infect or Death Shadow Zoo that contain(ed) very few cards costing over one mana. I also like to start playing on turn one, so I went up to eight discard spells, thus twelve total plays including Bolt (this was pre-Fatal Push and I didn't think any other cards like Seal of Fire were particularly good).
Discard spells are also the best tools against unfair decks like Ad Nauseam and Lantern (I would even say I have a high win-rate against Tron and Valakut decks). Remember, discard into Goyf into follow-up can beat anyone (even Dredge on occasion), so it's nice to maximize that.
On four KCommands: whenever I play Magic, I try to think of what card I want in my next draw step--I noticed that that card was very often KCommand, so I just went up to four. I do believe this is the best grindy spell, mainly because it has the potential to affect the board; I would play four before I played the first Painful Truths, for example. Also, it can keep you from getting topdecked on.
Also, always play 4 Liliana of the Veil in your 75.
I picked up Death and Taxes in Legacy recently so I haven't been playing much Modern, but good luck to everyone out there.
So, I was wandering how a typical Jund list should look like right now. Basically I would start with the basic creaturebase, and play 3-4 Pushes, 3 Terminate, 4 LotV, 2 Decay and 2 KCommand and 1 Pulse. But then I am wandering, is it better to play like 2 copies of bolt and no CB/fourth push or cut bolts completely and play 4 Push and 1 CB. What do you think?
collective brutality its great, but i think its to weak in the maindeck
abrupt decay its not at its best right now. fatal push, terminate and kolaghan's command cover most of the needs, i still would play 1 pulse and maybe 1 decay
@FlyingDelver
Probably the first list seems more tunned. Also i believe that CB isn't that great G1. I'm playing with 3 of them at my board, since it covers a lot and improves way more the burn match up.
I'm starting to test 2 Tireless Tracker instead kitchen finks and I believe that he'll improve a lot the grinding match ups.
I can see going down to 1 decay. So I could run something like 4 Pushes, 1 Decay, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 3 Terminate, 2 Bolt and 4 LotV as removal suite.
I can see going down to 1 decay. So I could run something like 4 Pushes, 1 Decay, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 3 Terminate, 2 Bolt and 4 LotV as removal suite.
@mrc_jr: So you don't run any 4 drops basically?
On mainboard I'll test 2 four drops, in form of Huntmaster and Kalistas, but I'm not too sure about it yet. Kalitas seems more appealing nowadays with the increase of DS, Kommand and Lili last hope too. Exiling the creature it's becoming more important.
Those trackers are sitting on my SB at the moment. For reference this is what my 75 looks like.
I can see going down to 1 decay. So I could run something like 4 Pushes, 1 Decay, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 3 Terminate, 2 Bolt and 4 LotV as removal suite.
I refuse to ever play less than 2 Abrupt Decay. It feels so powerful just having mainboard answers to random permanents people try to hose you with. The other day my opponent playing Affinity Counters dropped a random Nissa, Voice of Zendikar that I was able to just remove conveniently. Even when it doesn't seem good, it's sometimes just randomly good.
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I can see going down to 1 decay. So I could run something like 4 Pushes, 1 Decay, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 3 Terminate, 2 Bolt and 4 LotV as removal suite.
I refuse to ever play less than 2 Abrupt Decay. It feels so powerful just having mainboard answers to random permanents people try to hose you with. The other day my opponent playing Affinity Counters dropped a random Nissa, Voice of Zendikar that I was able to just remove conveniently. Even when it doesn't seem good, it's sometimes just randomly good.
Thats what my thoughts are concerning Decay. It is probably dependent to the meta, and if it allows, I can see going down to 1, its a decision each has to make for his/herself. Thats why I said I can see going down to 1. But I personally agree with you and I am also more a 2 Decay guy.
I cut one Abrupt Decay and have been pleasantly un-surprised that I haven't missed it. The cards was better when control decks were a real thing in Modern. Other than that, it's just a clean way to kill obscure stuff, such as Kira, Great Glass-Spinner.
I cut one Abrupt Decay and have been pleasantly un-surprised that I haven't missed it. The cards was better when control decks were a real thing in Modern. Other than that, it's just a clean way to kill obscure stuff, such as Kira, Great Glass-Spinner.
A second Pulse does make sense to me. Having access to a one mainboard and a second one sideboard seems to be a good starting point therefore.
To me, it's pretty ridiculous that people can't grasp the concept that "reach" doesn't ******* matter when you're getting stomped on by a bunch of reality smashers, thought knot seers, and death's shadows. Inherently, B/G/x decks have ALWAYS played like more of a control deck than anything that try to soft lock your opponent's ability to play magic through cards like thoughtseize, IoK, LoTV, HARD removal, and cost efficient threats that deal a lot of damage (tarmogoyf, raging ravine) or gain you card advantage (bob). Reach does not matter because your threats already do a ton of damage. What's more important is making sure your threats are able to actually get in there for damage and that you have the means to remove opponent's threats. We are not playing burn here, people- in our current environment, eldrazi and death's shadow are here to stay- if you have to go slightly bigger with terminate, and more k-commands to recur threats, make people discard, and return creatures to your hand, I think that's a brilliant metagame call that was made by these players.
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
but if I were attending to a PPTQ, GP or even in a unknown store this weekend, for sure I would remove at least a couple of bolts for more pushes and terminates.
As said before, the reach bolt provides it's no longer needed IMO. Straight kill spell for almost any problematic creature it's way better nowadays.
Despite the recent records, Midrange Jund is still a great choice and for sure won't seize to exist. It just have to adapt like many times before this.
This is the list i'm playing this weekend...My board it's a little bit different from the usual, i'm taking finks out in order to play more Collectives..in my recent tests..finks were pretty sub-par and never a good draw, also it clogged up the 3 CMC slot.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Collective Brutality
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Damnation
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Any suggestion, critics or advice are welcome.
Edit: If I were removing all copies of bolt, probably would do something in this line:
-4 Lightning Bolt
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Terminate
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek -> not sure which one yet.
Tks!
UR Twin - RIP
After some tests, I finally have a solid list that I like but there is one slot I'm not a big fan of in my SB : Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
I used to play him a lot during Eldrazi Winter because Abzan Company was pretty popular but with the new meta game, he's no more shining.
He passed from MD to SB and now, even in SB, I don't want to play him right now.
Here you have my list :
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Liliana of the Veil
Instants
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Thoughtseize
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
I have 3 options for this slot and I want to know what you think about it regarding the actual T1 meta (Death Shadow, Gx Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Affinity, EldraTron, Valakut & Abzan) :
1°) Pulse of Murasa
Good against Burn and midrange thanks to its ability to take back a dead creature or a destructed land.
I used to play it a lot and it's a nice swiss army knife' card which is pretty efficient for specific creatures like Fulminator Mage or Kitchen Finks.
Not game-break but helpful.
In against : Burn (lifegain + take back Kitchen Finks), Death Shadow & Abzan (take back Tarmogoyf or Ooze), Gx Tron, Eldra Tron & Valakut (take back Fulminator Mage)
2°) Anathemancer
A "used to play" card which can be pretty efficient and surprise your opponent who doesn't expect to face it.
Very good top deck in mid and late-game against midrange or control deck.
Change the maths and help to finish by range when the situation is locked.
And you can exhumate him to deal more damage (Anathemancer T6 then exhumate T7 is game-over)
In against : Death Shadow, Abzan, Gx Tron, EldraTron
3°) Olivia Voldaren
Our vampiric lady seems pretty interesting in the actual meta, even if she stays a "high risk high value" card.
She can ping small creatures played in Affinity or helps to deal with Lingering Souls (Death Shadow & Abzan) and against big mana deck with beefy creatures (which don't play a lot of removals), she can steals them.
The fact that she's a flying creature is pretty good too.
In against : Death Shadow, Abzan, Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, EldraTron
What's your (constructive) thoughts about those options ?
Some advice or recommendations ?
Gus
Pulse of Murasa or Kolaghan's Command are more viable ways of getting extra mileage out him than his Unearth ability. Still, one might get to seven mana once in a while.
Liliana, the Last Hope is another card that would get on well with Anathemancer.
If one had several copies of any of these three cards or others with similar effects, Anathemancer might be worth a shot.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I've liked 4 copies of those cards for a long time now.
Modern is/was a fast format with decks like Infect or Death Shadow Zoo that contain(ed) very few cards costing over one mana. I also like to start playing on turn one, so I went up to eight discard spells, thus twelve total plays including Bolt (this was pre-Fatal Push and I didn't think any other cards like Seal of Fire were particularly good).
Discard spells are also the best tools against unfair decks like Ad Nauseam and Lantern (I would even say I have a high win-rate against Tron and Valakut decks). Remember, discard into Goyf into follow-up can beat anyone (even Dredge on occasion), so it's nice to maximize that.
On four KCommands: whenever I play Magic, I try to think of what card I want in my next draw step--I noticed that that card was very often KCommand, so I just went up to four. I do believe this is the best grindy spell, mainly because it has the potential to affect the board; I would play four before I played the first Painful Truths, for example. Also, it can keep you from getting topdecked on.
Also, always play 4 Liliana of the Veil in your 75.
I picked up Death and Taxes in Legacy recently so I haven't been playing much Modern, but good luck to everyone out there.
So the list would look like this:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Twilight Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
Noncreature Spells [23]
3 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Terminate
Or:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Twilight Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
Noncreature Spells [23]
4 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Collective Brutality
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Terminate
abrupt decay its not at its best right now. fatal push, terminate and kolaghan's command cover most of the needs, i still would play 1 pulse and maybe 1 decay
Probably the first list seems more tunned. Also i believe that CB isn't that great G1. I'm playing with 3 of them at my board, since it covers a lot and improves way more the burn match up.
I'm starting to test 2 Tireless Tracker instead kitchen finks and I believe that he'll improve a lot the grinding match ups.
UR Twin - RIP
@mrc_jr: So you don't run any 4 drops basically?
On mainboard I'll test 2 four drops, in form of Huntmaster and Kalistas, but I'm not too sure about it yet. Kalitas seems more appealing nowadays with the increase of DS, Kommand and Lili last hope too. Exiling the creature it's becoming more important.
Those trackers are sitting on my SB at the moment. For reference this is what my 75 looks like.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal Push
3 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
3 Collective Brutality
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Damnation
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Blood Moon
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Tireless Tracker
UR Twin - RIP
I refuse to ever play less than 2 Abrupt Decay. It feels so powerful just having mainboard answers to random permanents people try to hose you with. The other day my opponent playing Affinity Counters dropped a random Nissa, Voice of Zendikar that I was able to just remove conveniently. Even when it doesn't seem good, it's sometimes just randomly good.
Thats what my thoughts are concerning Decay. It is probably dependent to the meta, and if it allows, I can see going down to 1, its a decision each has to make for his/herself. Thats why I said I can see going down to 1. But I personally agree with you and I am also more a 2 Decay guy.
Or a clean way to kill Death's Shadow despite Stubborn Denial. . . Ensnaring Bridge. . . Blood Moon. . . Yeah, who needs it?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
We have Kolaghan's Command for Ensnaring Bridge and Ancient Grudge in sideboard.
Against decks playing Blood Moon, I tend to fetch basics early so it's a non-issue.